Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.



A short video by Bilal Phillips. Does anyone know if he is Shia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=ywa_zmGlo6Y&NR=1 Re: How I discovered Shia Islam was the True Islam





Wassalaam. DevotedOne

He is not shia.... He currently runs the Islamic Online University, whose curriculum/ideology has nothing to do with the shia.

tbaba1234: He is not shia.... He currently runs the Islamic Online University, whose curriculum/ideology has nothing to do with the shia.

Why do I feel you sound very fanatical?

You try to sound reasonable and logical only when it suits you.whether whoever is Shia Muslim or not is beside my point.it doesn't matter who is and who isn't.but since Sunnis are into "hero worship" it sure may be necessary to point out to you who is this and who is that.

You obvious are allergic into independent thinking and using the aql (intellect) which is very much adviced in the Quran.whenever you're caught in a discussion with the Shia you apply "hit and run" tactic.you cannot withstand any discussion with the Shia because you're not fit.you will end up running from it practicing the "sunnah" of one of your heroes,"baba bid'ah". you know well if you venture into a discussion on Shia Islam,you'd be thought lessons in Islam and logic.and for someone who poses to be "logical" or "reasonable",there is no escape from the truth.

I'm not trying to attack you or offend you.I'm only trying to motivate you into deep research by weighing the arguments,reasons and evidence put forth by both sides (Sunni and Shia).

^ The Op asked a question which i answered... What is with the long gist? What is 'fanatical' about my answer? oh well, i guess you have a right to your feelings...

After implying that i am fanatical , You now say, that i am allergic to Independent thought and applying intellect.... Are you kidding me??... You do not know me!!

I am not shia because i am 200% convinced both intellectually and emotionally that it is not the right way. I do not have to engage in long debates about it. Debates that often turn to insults and abuses.

I do not agree with the shia but i have never insulted any one of them so I find your comments very disgusting and insulting.

tbaba1234: ^ The Op asked a question which i answered... What is with the long gist? What is 'fanatical' about my answer? oh well, i guess you have a right to your feelings...

After implying that i am fanatical , You now say, that i am allergic to Independent thought and applying intellect.... Are you kidding me??... You do not know me!!

I am not shia because i am 200% convinced both intellectually and emotionally that it is not the right way. I do not have to engage in long debates about it. Debates that often turn to insults and abuses.

I do not agree with the shia but i have never insulted any one of them so I find your comments very disgusting and insulting.

Yes you don't insult,and the truth is you don't have to resort to insult to debate or even discuss.it is the ignorant ones who resort to insults because they don't know what they are talking about or they are overwhelmed with the truth put forth by the Shia.

If you're so convinced emotionally and intellectually that Shia Islam is not the right way,to be convinced 200% is too little too small.you don't need to over emphasize your conviction if you're so sure about what you're talking of.your over emphasis speaks of a subconscious phobia of the "unknown" to you.

This is a public forum you are in the habit of long often boring lectures.so I see no need why you shy away from debate or discussion when it comes to Sunni-Shia differences.in fact in question is not why you shy away,but why you run away!

Anyways you're entitled to your opinion and beliefs and so I am.I see no need to convince someone who doesn't want to know.my advice to you is to still research extensively and when doing so,listen to the case of both sides.if you only listen to the Sunni side,you will continue to be a victim of distorted history.Sunnis don't shy to lie when it comes to religion and even sounding ridiculous.I intend no offence but I'm talking from experience.so please research! I know guidance is only from Allah,and I'm not suprised why a person who poses logical or reasonable can be in spiritual error.

I really want you to visit youtube and listen to the many lectures of these four Shia speakers in english:

1. Professor Hassanain Rajabali
2. Sayyid Ammar Nakhshawani
3. Sheikh Hamza Sodagar
4. Sheikh Usama Abdul-Ghani.

You will surely feel the difference!

what is shia

Salam to you dear brother devotedone! I'm just a muslim who tends to folow d quran n sunnah of Rasul(as). Please I do not intend to upset you or anyone but I want to know how is d shia islam d truth. I knw little abt it but I also have heard some muslim say its full of kufr n shirk, may Allah forgiv n have mercy on us, ameen? And If you can help me clarify tis may Allah reward you, ameen
1. I noticed during the call to prayers the shites adhan included "ashadu anna ali u amirul muhmini".. meaning I testify that Ali is d ameer of d believers, after testifying muhammad is d msger of Allah. I want to knw d basis for tis pls.
2. Why do shia scholars encourag their fellowers to mention d name of Aali in situatn instead of Allah for example they said.. if u want to sit,say ya Aali.. if u r about to fall say Ya Aali etc this is almost like d christians calling out jesus(as). I also knw seeking help other than from Allah is haram
3. I also noticedd they celebrate birthdays amomge others.
4. Also during d prayers dey dnt place their hands on d chest for any reason as I knw dt was practiced during d prophet time.
All tis is wht I noticed when watching their channel(ahlubayt TV) I will b grateful if u cn give me concrete proves on tis as u knw islam is based on proves n also y shia islam is d true islam. Jazakallah!

I will very quickly get irritated watching a shia video.

You do not have to read my 'long boring' lectures just like i stay away from the long boring shia posts. I am not staying in a discussion to please you, i make my points and leave.

You just insulted me, Does that also make you ignorant, i wonder? You have already irritated me today...

I could easily go a tirade of how deviant, i think your values are, but id rather not get into all that.

tbaba1234: I will very quickly get irritated watching a shia video.

You do not have to read my 'long boring' lectures just like i stay away from the long boring shia posts. I am not staying in a discussion to please you, i make my points and leave.

You just insulted me, Does that also make you ignorant, i wonder? You have already irritated me today...

I could easily go a tirade of how deviant, i think your values are, but id rather not get into all that.

My apologies if you feel insulted,but as I made clear my comments wasn't intended to offend.and its actually promising to see you react in this way.there is still much to hope for!

The difference clearly between truth and falsehood is simply that falsehood vanishes in the presence of truth.the Quran puts it as "truth have come and falsehood has vanished because falsehood is bound to vanish by its nature".the difference between you and I is very very simple.I spend my time going through the posts or lectures of others or the "opposing side".but you prefer to run instead and shield your ears,mask your eyes and seal your mouth.you know very well we muslims in nigeria generally take pride in that we associate with christians by accepting christians preachers into our homes and accepting their pamphlets and literature.we even find more reasons in their literature why we must remain muslim.we are confident people following the truth.I see no reason why you lock up your senses when it comes to Shia-Sunni differences if you're sure of what you're following.

Like the saying goes,you don't miss what you don't have.and ofcourse "ignorance is bliss".I would still advice you sincerely to hold your breath and listen to the lectures of those four wonderful english speakers I suggested to you.leave the personal argument aside and forgive me if I have offended you and made you react this way.for your good and in fact for the good of Islam as a whole,it is healthy to exchange views and ideas.so try these lecturers and you stand to lose nothing!

Zhul-Fiqar.:


Yes you don't insult,and the truth is you don't have to resort to insult to debate or even discuss.it is the ignorant ones who resort to insults because they don't know what they are talking about or they are overwhelmed with the truth put forth by the Shia.

Zhul-Fiqar.:

but you prefer to run instead and shield your ears,mask your eyes and seal your mouth.

Zhul-Fiqar.:

You obvious are allergic into independent thinking and using the aql (intellect) .you cannot withstand any discussion with the Shia because you're not fit

Zhul-Fiqar.:

my advice to you is to still research extensively and when doing so,listen to the case of both sides.if you only listen to the Sunni side,you will continue to be a victim of distorted history.Sunnis don't shy to lie when it comes to religion and even sounding ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai0kd2dYsf0

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.

hadbak: Salam to you dear brother devotedone! I'm just a muslim who tends to folow d quran n sunnah of Rasul(as). Please I do not intend to upset you or anyone but I want to know how is d shia islam d truth. I knw little abt it but I also have heard some muslim say its full of kufr n shirk, may Allah forgiv n have mercy on us, ameen? And If you can help me clarify tis may Allah reward you, ameen
1. I noticed during the call to prayers the shites adhan included "ashadu anna ali u amirul muhmini".. meaning I testify that Ali is d ameer of d believers, after testifying muhammad is d msger of Allah. I want to knw d basis for tis pls.
2. Why do shia scholars encourag their fellowers to mention d name of Aali in situatn instead of Allah for example they said.. if u want to sit,say ya Aali.. if u r about to fall say Ya Aali etc this is almost like d christians calling out jesus(as). I also knw seeking help other than from Allah is haram
3. I also noticedd they celebrate birthdays amomge others.
4. Also during d prayers dey dnt place their hands on d chest for any reason as I knw dt was practiced during d prophet time.
All tis is wht I noticed when watching their channel(ahlubayt TV) I will b grateful if u cn give me concrete proves on tis as u knw islam is based on proves n also y shia islam is d true islam. Jazakallah!

Salaam hadbak. I am a work in progress I would think and would delay representing Shia' Islam, as my knowledge does not yet qualify. I should have studied in my prime at one of the major Universities of Islamic learning, if only I had known of Shia Islam. Now, it seems to take forever.

True, I've often thought of the way some Muslims address Hadrat Ali عليه السلام, but what can I say. I love Imam Ali عليه السلام, for his Love for Allaah (SWT), and the fact that Allaah, Blessed Is HE, Forevermore, blessed him ,عليه السلام with much knowledge and wisdom, which he عليه السلا , has passed along to those whom follow his lead. However, I do not know of any Muslim, who would worship Imam Ali عليه السلام .


Wassalaam. DevotedOne.

hadbak: Salam to you dear brother devotedone! I'm just a muslim who tends to folow d quran n sunnah of Rasul(as). Please I do not intend to upset you or anyone but I want to know how is d shia islam d truth. I knw little abt it but I also have heard some muslim say its full of kufr n shirk, may Allah forgiv n have mercy on us, ameen? And If you can help me clarify tis may Allah reward you, ameen
1. I noticed during the call to prayers the shites adhan included "ashadu anna ali u amirul muhmini".. meaning I testify that Ali is d ameer of d believers, after testifying muhammad is d msger of Allah. I want to knw d basis for tis pls.

http://www.al-islam.org/the-shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/9.htm

http://en.shiapen.com/fiqh/ali-un-wali-allah.html

2. Why do shia scholars encourag their fellowers to mention d name of Aali in situatn instead of Allah for example they said.. if u want to sit,say ya Aali.. if u r about to fall say Ya Aali etc this is almost like d christians calling out jesus(as). I also knw seeking help other than from Allah is haram

Saying "Ya Ali" is not something you can say instead of saying "Ya Allah".there is no competition here.no Shia says instead of calling Allah,you should call "Ya Ali".that is a wrong conclusion.

As to why at all we say "Ya Ali",its permissibility and history,here are answers:

1. "Ali" is also one of the "asma ul-husna" of Almighty Allah.

2. It is sunnah to say "Ya Ali".the supplication known as "Nade Ali" or "Call on Ali" was revealed by Jibril (as) to Prophet Muhammed (sawaws).it is recorded in Sunni sources too.we are simply following or reviving a sunnah revealed by Jibril (as) from Allah,in the hope that when we are in distress as the Prophet (sawaws) was at that time,Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) will also ease our distress (by saying "Ya Ali" as the Prophet did).

Check this:
https://www.nairaland.com/1015116/examining-wahhabism-english-lecture#11785856

3. As for the permissibility of saying "Ya Ali",it is permissible as its part of a revelation brought by Jibril (as) from Almighty Allah.not only that,it is also a form of tawassul permitted in the Quran.important to note is that mainstream Sunnis permit saying "Ya Muhammad" for instance.it is only wahhabi/salafist influenced Sunnis who forbid it and they are a tiny minority.here is proof from Sunnis permitting saying "Ya Muhammad" :

Reported by Bukhari and narrated by Abu Nuaym who said Sufyan narrated from Abu Ishaq who narrated from Abdur-Rahman Ibn Sa'ad who said:

Abdullah Ibn Umar's leg buckled and become paralyzed.So a man (Ibn Abbass) said to him :mention the name of the person most beloved to you.Ibn Umar tehreby retorted:"Ya Muhammad".

"Ya Muhammad" (O Muhammad!)is a phrase of tawassul calling another person to gain favor or help.
The above report is by the following Sunni scholars of hadith:

1.) Bukhari reported in "Adab al-Mufrad" under the chapter "what a man should say if his leg buckled and become paralyzed"
2.) Al-Hafidh Ibn al-Sunni in his book amal al-yawm wal laylah ('deeds of day and night') in the chapter of "what to say if one's leg is paralyzed" in many chains;
3.)related by Ibn Saad in his Tabqat and also al-Hafidh Ibn Ja'ad in his Musnad,
4.) al-Hafidh Ibn Asakir in Tarikh Dimashq and al-Hafidh Ibn al-Mizziyy in Tahdhib al-Kamal
5.) al-Hafid Ibn Jazariyy in his two books,al-Hisbul Hasin,and Udatu al-Hisnil Hasin and al-Hafidh al-Nawawi in al-Adhkar

3. I also noticedd they celebrate birthdays amomge others.

https://www.nairaland.com/1003473/marking-death-anniversary-um-al-mumineen

4. Also during d prayers dey dnt place their hands on d chest for any reason as I knw dt was practiced during d prophet time.

http://www.alqatrah.net/en/question/index.php?id=132

All tis is wht I noticed when watching their channel(ahlubayt TV) I will b grateful if u cn give me concrete proves on tis as u knw islam is based on proves n also y shia islam is d true islam. Jazakallah!

Shia Islam is the true Islam because it is the complete Islam as propagated by the Prophet (sawaws).it is the true Islam because it is also based on the sunnah of the Prophet (sawaws) and not on the "sunnah" of others.it is true Islam because the commandments of Allah the Most High are intact.

I hope the answers provided to your questions convince you and then you will know yourself why it is the true Islam.

You can also know from this thread why being a Sunni cannot amount to following "true Islam" but in fact it is bid'ah and forbidden to be "Sunni" :

https://www.nairaland.com/1001212/why-it-bidah-forbidden-sinful

Hadbak:
1. I noticed during the call to prayers the shites adhan included "ashadu anna ali u amirul muhmini".. meaning I testify that Ali is d ameer of d believers, after testifying muhammad is d msger of Allah. I want to knw d basis for tis pls.
2. Why do shia scholars encourag their fellowers to mention d name of Aali in situatn instead of Allah for example they said.. if u want to sit,say ya Aali.. if u r about to fall say Ya Aali etc this is almost like d christians calling out jesus(as). I also knw seeking help other than from Allah is haram

Zhul-Fiqar.:


Saying "Ya Ali" is not something you can say instead of saying "Ya Allah".there is no competition here.no Shia says instead of calling Allah,you should call "Ya Ali".that is a wrong conclusion.

As to why at all we say "Ya Ali",its permissibility and history,here are answers:

1. "Ali" is also one of the "asma ul-husna" of Almighty Allah.

2. It is sunnah to say "Ya Ali".the supplication known as "Nade Ali" or "Call on Ali" was revealed by Jibril (as) to Prophet Muhammed (sawaws).it is recorded in Sunni sources too.we are simply following or reviving a sunnah revealed by Jibril (as) from Allah,in the hope that when we are in distress as the Prophet (sawaws) was at that time,Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) will also ease our distress (by saying "Ya Ali" as the Prophet did).
"Ya Muhammad" (O Muhammad!)is a phrase of tawassul calling another person to gain favor or help.
The above report is by the following Sunni scholars of hadith:

it is only wahhabi/salafist influenced Sunnis who forbid it and they are a tiny minority.here is proof from Sunnis permitting saying "Ya Muhammad" :
1.) Bukhari reported in "Adab al-Mufrad" under the chapter "what a man should say if his leg buckled and become paralyzed"

You can also know from this thread why being a Sunni cannot amount to following "true Islam" but in fact it is bid'ah and forbidden to be "Sunni" :

One one occasion Wahhabis are the problem, on a another it is Sunnis

Please watch these videos carefully on asking Allah and asking Ali and compare what Shias say


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuFceAoPalU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD7L0fqmPs

hadbak:
3. I also noticedd they celebrate birthdays amomge others.

Shias celebrate a lot of things

Here the celebrate the death of Aisha (RA). They are absolutely Certain she is hellfire (may Allah forgive me for repeating it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOZLdqyxpY



Shia celebrate the death of Hussain (RA) (grandson of the Prophet (PBUH)) who was martyred. A lot of people were martyred during the life of the Prophet (PBUH), but the Prophet (PBUH) did not commemorate their death nor did he (PBUH) allow us to inflict pain on our selves in the process.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwndVmWG4PY

hadbak: I will b grateful if u cn give me concrete proves on tis as u knw islam is based on proves n also y shia islam is d true islam. Jazakallah!

Shias claim their Imams have knowldege of Unseen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8tg6SblQD8


Shias ask their Imam (not Allah). They can do that on phone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgsaSCkcqF4

Shia Claim the Qur'an is Incomplete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tJ9BJlldY


Shia say if Allah will not give because of sin, we should ASK the IMAM. CF to where Paul (in the Bible) says that man has sinned and has fallen short

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1AUQ8rEhqM

^
The usual hatred and lies displayed by fanatical wahhabi/salafist oriented Sunnis.why don't you allow a Shia to talk about what he believes? Why do you like to tell us what we believe,yet those beliefs are either unknown to us or they are based on your (deliberate) misinterpretations of what we say or do as most of the videos you post from fanatics abroad on youtube would show.Mr. BetaThing are you Shia? If no,then you're a loser!

In the above he says we believe in the holy Quran is "incomplete".that is the most malignant accusation these evil people throw at the Shia as a scarecrow.that is a lie.please see this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/860345/shiite-belief-present-quran-fabricated

If you're not convinced,then you need to check the most authentic book of Sunnis "sahih bukhari" to see the reports therein attacking the integrity of the Quran and throwing all sorts of falsehood against the Quran.should I then conclude Sunnis believe the Quran is false? the fact is these hadith reports whether in Shia or Sunni books are fabricated.the overwhelming majority of Shia and Sunnis believe in the infallibility of the Quran,as demonstrated by major scholars of new and old and proven beyond the shadow of doubt.

Knowledge of the unseen of the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and prophets of Allah,intercession,and whatever power of prophets or holy Imam are all by the permission of Allah.there is no escape from this point even if we Shia go to the extent of believing the holy Imams can give life to death as Prophet Isa (a) did-it is by God's permission.


As for commemorating Imam Hussein's (as) martyrdom,you should check the Ashura thread.we honor and commemorate all righteous servants of God and we will continue to do so as part of Allah's religion and will.your opposition to commemorating Ashura is to conceal the ugly truth about your Sunni caliphate started by your heroes abu bakr and umar,which butchered the family of the Prophet (s) and the Prophet's grandson,Imam Hussein (as) ended up beheaded by the forces of darkness.it was not a murder,assasination or any incident of martyrdom on the battlefield.it was a massacre.and remembering Imam Hussein's (as) martyrdom is SUNNAH.the Prophet Muhammad (s) considered that day,a day of grief and wept over it as recorded in Sunni hadiths,and we too who follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) feel the same way about it.perhaps if it was umar who had made it a day of grief (even if its a bid'ah as the other bid'ahs of Umar),sunnis would have wholeheartedly followed his "sunnah".but they find it hard to follow a sunnah of the Prophet (s) and upholding the verse of the holy Quran-the verse of Mawaddah-commanding us to love the Prophet's (s) kin.

https://www.nairaland.com/1107676/why-muslims-not-commemorate-husayn#13028287

BetaThing would prefer to uphold this bid'ah on Ashura (instead of marking it as a day of grief based on prophetic sunnah) :
https://www.nairaland.com/1107533/10th-day-muharram-reason-muslims

An honest Sunni mufti talks about Ashura and how the Tragedy of Karbala has been hidden from Sunnis:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbqCPOwCaI

you're bringing out too many redherrings and also lying and basing your conclusions on ill-founded misinpretations from the satanic minds you have.the wahhabi/salafi germs affecting Sunnis worldwide is obviously encroaching into Nigeria and into the minds fanatical Sunnis like the blind man who thinks darkness is light,Mr. BetaThing.

Final word to you,stop your lies and propaganda campaign aimed at tarnishing the image of others.your game and centuries of persecution and tyranny against Shia Islam is dead.this is the era of true Islam-Shia Islam!

I can also lay many claims on Sunnis (in fact well grounded ones) to tarnish the image of Sunnis.

^^^^
You made a statement and I disputed it with evidence. You call that hatred. Should I call your statement disputing mine hatred too? A policeman may hate a suspect, but that is ok as long as he presents TRUE EVIDENCE against a suspect. What matters on this thread is therefore not hatred per se.

I have tried to be fair by showing videos of what Shias said on tape. That is what anyone deserves. We can ignore the comments made by non-Shias on the videos.

Now
(1) Is there any Shia MISquoted on any of the videos?
(2) Is there any video that contains doctored image(s)/speech(es) of any Shia?

Those are the things that matter.

^
How would you feel if a non-muslim bring a video of us doing Tawaf around the Ka'ba,and call that "idol worship" ?

When you judge the intention of people based on your own misinterpretation/misunderstanding,that is not only silly but evil.judge the facts of our beliefs and stop fabricating ways to insult us with what you imagine we believe.

Zhul-Fiqar.:
^
How would you feel if a non-muslim bring a video of us doing Tawaf around the Ka'ba,and call that "idol worship" ?

We do tawaf - it is a fact. So I need to explain it. If he is not convinced, that is too bad. I have to live with the fact (and I have been living with it) that some people will never accept the truth

Zhul-Fiqar.:

When you judge the intention of people based on your own misinterpretation/misunderstanding,that is not only silly but evil.judge the facts of our beliefs and stop fabricating ways to insult us with what you imagine we believe.

As for misunderstanding, don't bother. It is only Allah that guides.
What I imagine no longer matters. I posted videos. Imagination is now dependent on what each viewer makes of the videos of speeches by Shia scholars.

In my last post, I asked you this. Please oblige
Point out the fabrications in the statements of those Shias in the videos.

BetaThings:
We do tawaf - it is a fact. So I need to explain it. If he is not convinced, that is too bad. I have to live with the fact (and I have been living with it) that some people will never accept the truth

As for misunderstanding, don't bother. It is only Allah that guides.
What I imagine no longer matters. I posted videos. Imagination is now dependent on what each viewer makes of the videos of speeches by Shia scholars.

In my last post, I asked you this. Please oblige
Point out the fabrications in the statements of those Shias in the videos.

Did I say the Shia issued words of fabrications? It does look like you don't even understand what you read or you lying on me to my face.

I'm saying the fabrications are in the statements you and your wahhabi extremist fellows who designed those videos make as conclusions.

We can put that to test with one statement from your post.I want you to prove to us your sincerity and intelligence by explaining to us what is wrong with the statement in your post.I will also present to you another statement non-muslims make,and explain to us what is wrong with their statement.

Here is your statement (quoted from your post) :

"Shia say if Allah will not give because of sin, we should ASK the IMAM".

And now when non-muslims see us on TV facing the Ka'ba,this is what they conclude:

"Muslims stand in front of a big black idol and bow to it".

Tell us what is wrong with these two statements and tell us if the two statements are both not deliberately worded to mislead and even lie.

Alhamdulillah mashaAllah! jazakallah all. Well, my aim is obeying Allah alone n Rasul(as) pure sunnah. may Allah guide us n make it easy, ameen. Whosoever seek d truth shall find it in shaa Allah. If our intension is sincere in seeking noting but d truth Allah will grant it to us. I think dts wht we as muslim shld b abt rather dan sayin tis so n so sect is right or wrong.. I'm abt chasing d truth may Allah guide me right, ameen. I lyk to folow d truth but not under any sect. Muslims who follow sects tends to protect d interest of dia sects hence deviating. It is my undrstndg dt whn ever a particular sect preaches dey tend to provoke or even insult d oda sects forgeting dt we all r muslims n av d shahada.. D questn is,"is tis d teachings of islam?,,NO! They is no verse of d quran dt says we shld b divided into sects, rather it warns n Rasul(as) never belong to any sect n he never ask or advised us to belong to any. All tis wil only bring abt misguidance..may Allah guide n protect us,ameen.

Oh Allah make all muslims Your sincere servants n guide us to d right path, d part of those You av favourd not of those who av earn Ur anger or of those dt av gon astray, ameen

hadbak: Alhamdulillah mashaAllah! jazakallah all. Well, my aim is obeying Allah alone n Rasul(as) pure sunnah. may Allah guide us n make it easy, ameen. Whosoever seek d truth shall find it in shaa Allah. If our intension is sincere in seeking noting but d truth Allah will grant it to us. I think dts wht we as muslim shld b abt rather dan sayin tis so n so sect is right or wrong.. I'm abt chasing d truth may Allah guide me right, ameen. I lyk to folow d truth but not under any sect. Muslims who follow sects tends to protect d interest of dia sects hence deviating. It is my undrstndg dt whn ever a particular sect preaches dey tend to provoke or even insult d oda sects forgeting dt we all r muslims n av d shahada.. D questn is,"is tis d teachings of islam?,,NO! They is no verse of d quran dt says we shld b divided into sects, rather it warns n Rasul(as) never belong to any sect n he never ask or advised us to belong to any. All tis wil only bring abt misguidance..may Allah guide n protect us,ameen.

Oh Allah make all muslims Your sincere servants n guide us to d right path, d part of those You av favourd not of those who av earn Ur anger or of those dt av gon astray, ameen

If you're after the truth,check this:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/13.html

Zhul-Fiqar.:


Did I say the Shia issued words of fabrications? It does look like you don't even understand what you read or you lying on me to my face.
Here is your statement (quoted from your post) :

"Shia say if Allah will not give because of sin, we should ASK the IMAM".

Alhamdu li Llah that you agree that what the Shias said were CORRECTLY attributed to them. Meaning the videos of the Shias were not doctored. Read before accusing. I can not sincerely do more than I have done!

BetaThings: We can ignore the comments made by non-Shias on the videos.

BetaThings:
What I imagine no longer matters. I posted videos. Imagination is now dependent on what each viewer makes of the videos of speeches by Shia scholars.

BTW I hope you know that the OP misrepresented/misunderstood the video he posted. Bilal Philips clearly say (in that Vid linked by Devotedone) that Shias are wrong. I mention this now because you said I did not understand what I read.

Hmmmm,

whether Sunni,Shia,wahabi/salafi or Sufi.......

Religion of Islam is as simple as ''ABC'' .....

1. To believe in Allah(swt) ,His messengers(jesus included),His angels,His Scriptures(bible/injeel included), The Day of Judgement and Destiny.........


2. Uphold Solaat (iqomat solaat)



3. Give Zaakat( compulsory payment to the ''Needy'')




4. Fast during the month of Ramodhan


5. Hajj(pilgrimage to Ka'aba)......
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

6. Righteousness-being upright
Suratul' Azr says it all....

Those that will enjoind paradise are those who ''believe in Allah and are righteous(upright),they speaketh Truth(trusthworthy) and are patience(shows zobur).........


I see no reasons y we shd keep COMPLICATING what Allah(swt) has SIMPLIFIED......

BetaThings:

Alhamdu li Llah that you agree that what the Shias said were CORRECTLY attributed to them. Meaning the videos of the Shias were not doctored. Read before accusing. I can not sincerely do more than I have done!


BTW I hope you know that the OP misrepresented/misunderstood the video he posted. Bilal Philips clearly say (in that Vid linked by Devotedone) that Shias are wrong. I mention this now because you said I did not understand what I read.

Please answer what I asked you to do:

Zhul-Fiqar.:

We can put that to test with one statement from your post.I want you to prove to us your sincerity and intelligence by explaining to us what is wrong with the statement in your post.I will also present to you another statement non-muslims make,and explain to us what is wrong with their statement.

Here is your statement (quoted from your post) :

"Shia say if Allah will not give because of sin, we should ASK the IMAM".

And now when non-muslims see us on TV facing the Ka'ba,this is what they conclude:

"Muslims stand in front of a big black idol and bow to it".

Tell us what is wrong with these two statements and tell us if the two statements are both not deliberately worded to mislead and even lie.

What is it with nairalanders and e-fighting? Now even the muslims are in on it too. Intra-Islam bashing. I'm just ashamed..
@donroxy- Islam is simple ooo, and to those who want to complicate it.. God is watching you.

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.


I believe it would be a good idea to study from the Shi'ite Encyclopedia, right here on this thread. We can compare notes, discuss Islamic viewpoints in depth, bring everybody into the discussion, because we will all be studying from the same lessons. Lets get studying. First question?


http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/ A Shi'ite Encyclopedia

I downloaded the small Chapters 'Zipped file' because 'the text' download for chapter 5, is missing.



Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Zhul-Fiqar.:


Please answer what I asked you to do:

This is is the video you speak of. Now WATCH it very carefully and please tell me what the Shia Scholar is saying at

6.16 - 6.37, look at 6.26 and 6.37 in particular,
And also
7.18 - 7.33

Please explain the incidents in
10.43 - 10.57
11.37

The video is full of issues like these. But explain those one selected because they are enough to answer your questions and clear the matter. These are statements made (on tape, undoctored). So yYou can write both the Arabic and translation of what the Shia Scholar said. You don't need to use the translation in the video itself - make your own


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1AUQ8rEhqM

^

^
If you feel no shame,guilt or remorse for bringing such hateful material,then you got no shame left!

How many times in the video did the word "WASEELAH" (means/approach to Allah) appear in the video,spoken by the Shia scholars?

"O you who believe,fear Allah and seek an approach (Waseelah) unto Him" (Quran 5:35)

How does what the Shia scholars saying based on seeking Waseelah to Allah and doing Tawassul,deserve all the bashing,satanic interpretations by those wahhabis/salafists who designed the video and statements of blasphemy to demonize the Shia Muslims?

How does what the Shia scholars said relate to this statement (on which I asked a question,you so far have refused to answer) :

"Shia say if Allah will not give because of sin, we should ASK the IMAM".

When we "ask the Imam" or supplicating through the Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and Prophet Muhammad (s),are we doing Tawassul by seeking Waseelah to Allah,or are we boycotting Allah and instead go to the Imam independently, as your spiteful statement suggest?

Is there one Shia in the world that believe the Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are "gods"? Is there one Shia in the world that worship these holy Imams from the Ahlul-Bayt (as) of Prophet Muhammad (s)? Is there one Shia that doesn't believe in LA ILAHA ILALLAH (there is no god except Allah)? Is there one Shia that believe Allah did not create the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as)? In the very video,the Shia scholar mentioned Allah created Imam Hussein (as)!!! So what satanic ideas are you and your satanic and hatred filled wahhabi/salafist friends attributing to other Muslims?

Listen,I really don't care what you believe or how you believe Tawassul is or should be done.that is another topic.but for you to lie that others are asking Imams "instead" of Allah is evil.there is not one Shia that would do Tawassul without believing that "there is no power or might except in Allah".whatever privilege that we are granted (in Tawassul) through the blessings and position of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) which Allah bestowed upon them,is from Allah ultimately.

for the designer of the video to call the Imams "deities" is very evil.that is his own belief and not ours.

The designer of the video even distorted the words of a sheikh in the video.the Sheikh said Imam Hussein (as) appeared in a dream to rebuke a man who drove away visitors on their way to Imam Hussein's (as) shrine in Karbala,because the visitors did not offer salat to Allah.the designer of the video went on to distort the dream explained by the Shia scholars by misinterpreting it with his satanic comment that the Shia are implying Imam Hussein (as) forbade the slaves of Allah from offering salat.first this shows the Shia offer salat to Allah,and not to Imam Hussein (as).second,how does Imam Hussein (as) in a dream asking a man to treat visitors kindly got to do with forbidding them from offering salat and worshipping Allah? how does Imam Hussein (as) in the dream asking the man to treat the vistors kindly even if they did not offer salat amount to Imam Hussein (as) forbidding people from praying as the evil wahhabi/salafist designer of the video implied that the Shia are saying? whether your visitors pray or not,it is not your business.the message is that simple.however you have no right to use that as an excuse to treat them badly and pursue them out of your house.we Shia do not go about beating people and arresting them for not praying.in Wahhabi Saudi Arabia the so called "morality police" go about arresting people who do not go for Jum'at.we Shia Muslims do not do that!!! we dont judge you if you decide not to offer salat to Allah,your Creator.that is between you and Allah on Qiyama as much as we understand and acknowledge the importance of salat,as a pillar of Islam.those wahhabi saudi police that go about arresting people for not attending Jum'at in Saudi Arabia,what are they themselves doing when arresting people?is that attending Jum'at?!!!

now i will still take you to my question i earlier wanted you to answer.

if a non-muslim design a video and show Muslims performing salat around the Ka'ba,and then goes on to comment that the Ka'ba is a "muslim deity",like the video insulted us that the Imams are "Shia deities",how would you feel? you must answer this!!! and if the non-muslim goes on to show muslims kissing the Black Stone,and call that "idol worship",like you accuse us falsely of "grave worship",how do you feel?

like i said earlier,i dont care what you think the Quranic concept of Tawassul or "seeking Waseelah" is or how it should be done.and i also dont care if you believe the righteous and chosen men that are dead have spiritual consciousness or not (Quran 3:169- "And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord" ).i dont care if you believe the salam (greetings) we muslims send to the Prophet Muhammad (s) are received by him or not,by the might and permission of Allah.i dont care what views you have about Tawassul at all.that is a separate discussion.i am saying this ahead so that you dont shift the discussion into discussing what Tawassul is or how it should be done.i dont care about your Tawassul views here.what i am telling you is that it is false,wrong,satanic,evil and very spiteful for you to deliberately misrepresent what others are doing or saying and call that "shirk" (polytheism) and accuse them of worshipping other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala).using the "shirk" allegation as a scarecrow against the Shia is what i am arguing against,and you must stop and admit your wrong doing.you should realize that not every hateful material you see online and purposely designed to deceive is truth.

if you want to talk about Tawassul as a Quranic concept and an Islamic belief,we can do that and i am ready to either provide you materials about the Shia view on Tawassul or to discuss with you why there is nothing wrong in the approach and views of the Shia on Tawassul;and how they are perfectly in agreement with the limits of Islam and the doctrine of Tawheed (monotheism) and therefore do not amount to "shirk" at all.again i must make it clear that to misrepresent what others do is wrong.even if you believe the Shia understanding or practice of Tawassul is wrong or strange to you,you still have no right to accuse any Muslim who only believes in the Godship of Allah,to be a "polytheist".otherwise,you need seriously to consider the words non-muslims direct at Muslims for facing the Ka'ba or kissing the Black Stone or doing Tawaf around the Ka'ba.

here are materials i would suggest you read and expand your knowledge on others and on Islam before you resort to the sin of accusing others of the most heinous crime in Islam,which is "shirk" (polytheism/idolatry):

Tawassul: Seeking an Approach Unto Allah
http://www.al-islam.org/mot/tawassul.htm

Tawassul (Resorting to Intermediary)
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/5.html

Evidence for Tawassul by a Sunni Writer
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/6.html

Zhul-Fiqar.:

This is a public forum you are in the habit of long often boring lectures

Take your own advice and make your response brief. That us better for everyone

Zhul-Fiqar.:

The designer of the video even distorted the words of a sheikh in the video.

I asked you repeatedly, is the video doctored? Can you do your own translation of the Arabic speech of the Shia Scholars? You refused but you now insist that somebody misinterpreted the dream. Actually there is no distortion

You are trying to distract. This is what happened.
1. People who claimed to be on a religious to the grave of Hussain (RA) stopped over in a man's house
2. When it was time for prayer (salat), he asked to come and pray. They refused.
3. He turned them out. (Note I agree with him in sending them away. A man who leaves his home to make a "religious" trip who does not make salat is most probably a liar)
4. He had a dream where Hussain (RA) told him that he did wrong in sending them away. Hussain (RA) was reported to have said tha it was not the man's business if those people did not pray

"Help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to Allah." Qura'an 5 : 2

"You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma`roof ( and forbid Al-Munkar" Qur'an 3:110

So no muslim will agree with this nightmare being presented as a dream! If you don't offer salat, you are demonstrating the traits of the kuffar. Muslims might even think you are thief looking for a place to put up until he is ready for "operation" in the dead of the night

You insist that Shias regard Allah as the creator of Husaain (RA). So how come do they expect me to believe that Hussain (RA) will ask visitors to his grave should postpone their salat duties to Allah (the creator of Hussain, RA)

Zhul-Fiqar.:

Listen,I really don't care what you believe or how you believe Tawassul is or should be done

Then why bother responding?

You prefer
1. inquiring into my motive. Your brother - LagosShia always accuses people of personal attacks. I am trying to focus on issues, but you keep trying to turn it into personal issues
2. We have clear videos with recording of Shia lectures. You have the opportunity to refute it or even translate properly. But no, you are referring me to some opinions.
(i) Whose opinions are those articles? (ii) why are those opinions superior to those in the videos? (iii)why do you believe that those articles are easier to follow than videos?

If you want to clarify matters
1. Refer to the specific statements made by those Shia lecturers that I said I have issues with.
2. Translate them into English
3. Explain the context and evidence for what they have said
That is a better structure than trying to wear people out with lengthy arguments

It is your duty to explain what Shia Scholars say if I have issues with those statements or you believe that I have wrong understanding of the Shia scholars statements.

Trying to divert me to some articles or what you imagine I should learn would not work. You have to deal with what is on the table first. Additional information can come later

BTW - you have posted videos from Shia lecturers in the past and you wanted us to watch those videos and learn
So these videos are similar. If they have commentaries you don't like, you can draw people attention to them.
People reading here are not babies. We can assume they qualify for jury duty where they need to sift arguments presented by both the prosecution and defence

Reconcile these two

Zhul-Fiqar.:
(Quran 3:169- "And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord" )

LagosShia:
"The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount". 'Abdullah added: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount, and some of you will be brought in front of me till I will see them and then they will be taken away from me and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It will be said, 'you do not know what they did after you had left.'' Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8 Hadith 578

You Shias say
1. The martyrs, their Imams and Prophet (PBUH) are not dead. So they can hear prayers and make intercession from their graves (that quote from the Qur'an)
2. The Prophet (PBUH) would refer to some people as his (PBUH) companions on the day of Qiyama and he (PBUH) would be told you (PBUH) did not know what those so-called companions did after you (PBUH) left. (that is the import of the LgosShia's quote from Bukhari).

Shias use this hadith to justify their assertion that Abu-bakr, Umar etc (RA) would be in hell fire. (Sunnis believe these faithful companions SPECIFICALLY promised Al-Jannah are not those referred to in that hadith. Afteral that hadith does not have names of the excluded companions)

My question
Was the Prophet (PBUH) ALIVE in his grave making intercession (Shia's interpretation of that Quranic verse) or was he DEAD in his (PBUH) grave and did not know that his (PBUH) companions had done unfaithful things?

I am saying this because Sunnis believe that
The Prophet (PBUH) is dead and can not make intercession now. People will get that benefit on the day of Qiyama
Praying to people in a grave is Shirk

BetaThings:
Take your own advice and make your response brief. That us better for everyone

i was not making a sermon.i was responding to the points you made.

I asked you repeatedly, is the video doctored? Can you do your own translation of the Arabic speech of the Shia Scholars? You refused but you now insist that somebody misinterpreted the dream. Actually there is no distortion

the (mis)interpretation is sic.

You are trying to distract. This is what happened.
1. People who claimed to be on a religious to the grave of Hussain (RA) stopped over in a man's house
2. When it was time for prayer (salat), he asked to come and pray. They refused.
3. He turned them out. (Note I agree with him in sending them away. A man who leaves his home to make a "religious" trip who does not make salat is most probably a liar)
4. He had a dream where Hussain (RA) told him that he did wrong in sending them away. Hussain (RA) was reported to have said tha it was not the man's business if those people did not pray

"Help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to Allah." Qura'an 5 : 2

"You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma`roof ( and forbid Al-Munkar" Qur'an 3:110

how does sending them away amount to "helping them unto righteousness"? there is higher chance that showing them kindness and talking to them would have made them see the importance of salat better than a display of judgement on God's behalf.

does driving them out of the house amount to "enjoining good and forbidding evil"? you are misapplying those verses.the points that can be derived from this dream are two:

1.) you do not judge based on what belongs to God.prayers belong to God.if they were thieves or liars or have harmed you,then you can react.but prayer is the right of God and not man.

2.) even sinners who have left salat can be interceded for by Imam Hussein (as) and insha'Allah by Allah's mercy,they will change for the better and gain knowledge and better understanding of the importance of salat.afterall,Imam Hussein (as) was being rained with arrows by his enemies in the tragedy of Karbala and his followers still formed a human shield around him to enable the Imam (as) perform salat al-Dhuhr.when you gain better understanding about what Imam Hussein (as) stood for and you are ever closer to his legacy,you will see changes in your religious standing and an increase in iman by Allah's grace.

Noble Quran Verse 41:34
"Nor can goodness and evil be equal. Repel (evil) with that is better: Then will he between whom and you was hatred become as it were your friend and intimate!"

Noble Quran Verse 23:96
"Repel evil with that which is best: We are well-acquainted with the things they say."

So no muslim will agree with this nightmare being presented as a dream! If you don't offer salat, you are demonstrating the traits of the kuffar. Muslims might even think you are thief looking for a place to put up until he is ready for "operation" in the dead of the night

a thief is only a thief when he tampers with what does not belong to him.

You insist that Shias regard Allah as the creator of Husaain (RA). So how come do they expect me to believe that Hussain (RA) will ask visitors to his grave should postpone their salat duties to Allah (the creator of Hussain, RA)

he NEVER did that.

he only asked for kindness to be shown based on the dream.ill-intentions and hatred to fight the Shia are what led you to that (above) conclusion.

Then why bother responding?

You prefer
1. inquiring into my motive. Your brother - LagosShia always accuses people of personal attacks. I am trying to focus on issues, but you keep trying to turn it into personal issues
2. We have clear videos with recording of Shia lectures. You have the opportunity to refute it or even translate properly. But no, you are referring me to some opinions.
(i) Whose opinions are those articles? (ii) why are those opinions superior to those in the videos? (iii)why do you believe that those articles are easier to follow than videos?

If you want to clarify matters
1. Refer to the specific statements made by those Shia lecturers that I said I have issues with.
2. Translate them into English
3. Explain the context and evidence for what they have said
That is a better structure than trying to wear people out with lengthy arguments

It is your duty to explain what Shia Scholars say if I have issues with those statements or you believe that I have wrong understanding of the Shia scholars statements.

Trying to divert me to some articles or what you imagine I should learn would not work. You have to deal with what is on the table first. Additional information can come later

BTW - you have posted videos from Shia lecturers in the past and you wanted us to watch those videos and learn
So these videos are similar. If they have commentaries you don't like, you can draw people attention to them.
People reading here are not babies. We can assume they qualify for jury duty where they need to sift arguments presented by both the prosecution and defence

i am simply referring you to those articles which are written by Shia Muslims on the topic of Tawassul.as far as this discussion is concerned it is not on Tawassul.it is on the allegation of "shirk" you have laid on others.therefore i must provide you with what you can rely on to have an understanding on Tawassul separately while i am treating your allegations of "shirk" and misinterpretations,misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what your videos contain;instead of using your deficit knowledge on Tawassul as ground for your allegation on "shirk" (as my next reply to your post would show).