That was his increase,common he gave tithes of his increase.Spoils from the people he defeated,not Lot Or the king of sodom's property but spoils of war.He gave the others their own portionDeut14v22

I have no spoils of war.
That's why I give offerings.
image123,take care honey.
who is Paul and who is Apollos?

We are all servants of the most high.
God bless you immensely as we await His appearing.
Amen.

no need beating around,tithe is 1/10 of your increase.It could be spoils of war,it could be crops,anise,cummin,generous sumptous gift received,salary,harvest,business profit.God bless you too Amen and happy sunday

1 Cor 16:1-2

1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.

2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Gal 3:10

10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

2 Cor 9:7

7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Where is Sysuser's contribution to this thread?

Quote from: Image123 on March 13, 2008, 04:06 AM
@Kunle@seguno
why do you guys have to come and try to discourage people from doing good.If you're not convinced about paying tithes,then keep that to yourself
==============================

I notice that Image finds it difficult to follow his own advice to others.
Is this yet another case of  Do as I say but not as I do
The context of your placing the yoke or burden of unrequired tithing on Xtians is more understandable now.
I hope you will stop this tithing terrorism before you get God's full reward.

@nwando and seguno
suit yourselves.But I'm curious about something,can you tell me,do you steal?

I do not steal, I thank God for His grace.
Your question will be better addressed to those who sit in the front chairs of Naija churches, get special attention from pastors after looting their employers (private & public) senseless. For example see the last paragraphs of this article:

http://www.saharareporters.com/www/report/detail/?id=510

That question should be asked of those CAN leaders who awarded a Certificate of Excellence last May to someone who looted us, his citizen-employers, of so much billions of dollars some of which was meant to provide electricity, roads among others.
That question should be asked of church leaders who collect members offerings for projects, such as schools, hospitals, vocational centres etc, for which they have no intention of benefitting the contributing members through subsidised fees.
Etc, etc.
As the Yorubas say, the person who collected stolen goods knowingly is more guilty than the one who actually stole.
We should constantly do a reality check in our Christian walk to find out how far/near we are to Pharisee attitudes.

For those who don't know CAN, it is The Christian Association of Nigeria i.e. the body that supposedly represents Nigerian Xtians - you & I.
The story on the presentation is found here:

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81808_86444_ENG_HTM.htm

@nwando,@seguno
So,you don't steal.Well,nwando how about you?

@Image 123
Long time my friend, i see you are still spreading your unsscriptural gospel of tithes in the most manipulative ways. I think you should answer the question of stealing your self, (do you steal?) Well i am not out to condenm any body personally my friend but you sound to me as someone who collects tithes and if you do that means you are stealing from the people of God in God's name. trust me my friend there is no greater sin than blasphemy. By asking the question "do you steal" i am sure you want to quote malachi 3 : 8 out of context again. I am sure by now you should realise that you can't use that hoodwink any body that as been following this thread.

@image123
I just read your comments on hebrew 7 11-13, as clear as that passsage is, you choose to misinterprete it for what ever motive i don't know, when it said the levitical law must change was it not very very obvious it was the law of tithes it was talking about. the same passage also said that jesus is not from the tribe of the levites so he was not enetitled to tithes. now any body that as read his bible well would know that only the the levites(descendants of Levi) were entitled to collect tithes. My friend hebrews 7 11-13 makes it very clear that tithing has no place in christianity. If the bible says that our lord Jesus christ is not eligible to collect tithes, how much the pastors who preach in his name.

Also you earlier mentioned the various types of tithes in the bible with passages to support them. how ever i am did not find any that resesmbles the kind of tithes we have in our churches today(10% 0f your income) ( people also earned monetary income /wages in those days) all the passages you quote makes it clear that tithes is 1 produce of the land 2 firstlings or tenth animal under the rod 3 a form of tithing is done every third year. You were not able to quote any that said if we don't have any produce we could use our money. Deuteronomy 14; 26 makes it clear that money cannot be subsistitued for tithes as tithes is meant to be eaten. It said even if we convert out tithes to money we should still use that money to buy whatever our hearts desire and eat it in the presence of God. Please quote the passage to me in the bible that suggests money is tithable or is a form of tithes.

@Nwando
Thank you for doing an exceptionally good job of sharing the biblical truth about tithes with fellow christians while i haven't been able to come on line may God continue to bless you. I have read all your posts on this topic i must comment that i am impressed by your knowledge and understanding of the bible and also ur understanding of the true will of God for us as christians. I believe we as christians should continue to share the truth amongst ourselves and we should not allow anyone to mislead us. By his grace we all have the opportunity to read and study the bible and to discern what God really wants of us.

KunleOshob:

@Nwando
Thank you for doing an exceptionally good job of sharing the biblical truth about tithes with fellow christians while i haven't been able to come on line may God continue to bless you. I have read all your posts on this topic i must comment that i am impressed by your knowledge and understanding of the bible and also your understanding of the true will of God for us as christians. I believe we as christians should continue to share the truth amongst ourselves and we should not allow anyone to mislead us. By his grace we all have the opportunity to read and study the bible and to discern what God really wants of us.

May our God bless you abundantly too.
I'm sure as this discussion goes on,many will allow themselves to be set free from laws not made for them.
The Bible says we ought to be led by the Spririt.
Sadly many of these things I've written here,I'm unable to share with people for the most part so as not to offend or call the man of God a liar.
My Church still preaches tithes and I have no plans on leaving.
I just give my offerings to meet the needs of my Church and give as God leads me for other causes.
I'll rather obey God than man.

Another sad turn the church is taking here in the States and Europe.
Preachers on TV now ask for donations on credit card.
I remember when it all started first with book and tape purchases then progressed to money to support their ministries.
There should be an outrage that people are being asked to borrow money at sometimes 22% interest (which is what credit cards are) and give to God.

I know for sure that is so unbiblical.
God cannot require of us something we don't have.
People ought to wake up to these schemes.
Even some NIgerian churches here in the west have followed suit
Requesting bank account numbers for direct debits of tithes and offerings.
A church in my city here has a credit card/debit card machine where you can swipe and pay your tithes
I'm sure there are others

Let's give it 100 years when we're all gone,credit card offerings would be as normal as paying tithes.

nwando:

Preachers on TV now ask for donations on credit card.

this is the height of wickedness and greed. Telling ur flock to mortgage their financial future just to "give"?

The credit card dimension goes on to prove what we have always said, some people (not all) now see opening churches as a money making venture especially because of the false doctrine of tithes that as been imbibed in the church and the biblical laws of reaping and sowing. Can you imagine Ade Bendel a renowned international 419 kingpin recently released from jail for duping several people of millions of dollars is in the process of opening a church, he claims he became "born again" while in jail and he now wants to serve God as a pastor. He is even organizing a concert to launch the church very soon and prominent amongst the list of musicians billed to play at the concert are non christian artist like D'banj (the koko master). Your guess is as good as mine on why Ade Bendel a 419 kingpin would want to open a church!!! (he wants to legitimize his 419 business)

@All
this is to wish all my friends on this thread all the blessings associated with easter, may the true meaning of easter (redemption from sin, salvation and eternal life) manifest in each an every one of our lives in Jesus name Amen.

@All
2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.(KJV)

The Church of God is now infiltrated with many ungodly gimmicks with peoples money being the Preacher's target.
Some even ask people to bring money for a miracle touch, miracle oil, miracle handkerchief e.t.c! What an abuse joined with wickedness!
Nevertheless, if you claim that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (who are Jews) is your God, for you to now restrict God's law
about tithing to Jews alone makes a double standard. It shows the selfishness and absolute greed in man's heart.

Gal 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. (NIV)
They want Abraham's blessing, yet they refuses Abrahams ways;
Gen 14:19-20
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.(KJV)

Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.(KJV)
I conclude that the scripture "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" (1 Tim 6:10) both applies to such evil Preachers and likewise those who look for flimsy excuses in order not to pay tithe.

Finally @the poster & his like minded fans,
I will like to conclude that the same problem the same problem of all these fake Preachers is the same working in your life. If you are indeed a Christian, you will know that you can break a standard in a bid to prove another point sub-standard.
There is a book I will like both the fool and the wise on this thread to read. It is called "MIDAS' TOUCH" written by Kenneth E. Hagins.
It shows the way many Preachers steals from the people through crooked ways and likewise shows how many people steal from God stylishly.
There is always a balance in the Word of God (2 Tim. 2:15)
Just like a man who wants everything he touches to turn gold, very soon he will realise that there other things more important in life. The mind behind the hand selfishly looking for other people's money through crooked means is likewise same as the mind looking for satanic reasons to hold back what belongs to God and also going further to convince others to do the same.

Mark 9:42
"And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.(NIV)

Open your mind to this truth, Tithe is not an offering, neither is it considered as a gift to God. NEVER! To everyone who believes  Gal. 3:14, & Mal. 3:8-12 and claims the promise therein, your tithe belongs to God, its not a gift to Him, its His own (except you are telling me your life is owned by you!). Hence you are called a robber when you steal it. You do'nt steal if its a gift, but you are a robber because you took it by force justifying your act with flimsy excuses just like the way normal high-way robbers concludes in their minds before carrying out their devilish acts.
If the people doing it testifies that they are being blessed through the act, why disguise yourselves as Christian in order to make others err? Only satan acts like that. Leave every man alone with his faith! And let people becareful of what they hear!

If we do a good search about all these negative posters, they have no Church and neither are they Christians. If that is false, let them tell us their Church name, address, church email address (for confirmation) and likewise their Pastor's name! In another case, they may likewise be trying to force their "organisation"'s belief and doctrines on us, thereby encouraging other never-serious unbelievers alike to join their chorus. The fake is a good prove that the genuine exist!
A lifestyle of integrity is not only meant for Pastors but also for the members of the congregation. Every man will soon stand alone to answer for himself.

detruth:


@All
2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.(KJV)

Thank you very much for the above quote, which enjoins us as Christians to continue studying the Word for fresh revelations. We should not be discouraged under any guise from doing so.

detruth:


If the people doing it testifies that they are being blessed through the act, why disguise yourselves as Christian in order to make others err? Only satan acts like that. Leave every man alone with his faith! And let people be careful of what they hear!

However you might do well to heed your own advice to others in bold above.

BTW, I hope you noticed that no one is saying not to generously give offerings to the church. Your offering could be 10% (tithe) or even more if you are so led by the Holy Spirit. It may also be less than 10% , in line with the leading of the Holy Spirit at the time
What is being made clear is that there is no tithe obligation in the Bible as is being preached today.
Read the ONLY comprehensive text on HOW/WHAT tithe is -Deuteronomy 14: 22-29 all over again. You will realise that we are only requested not to forsake the levites(v.27), to whom pastors now equate themselves to justify their entitlements to tithes, while enjoying the first two years tithes in God's presence. Even the third year's tithe is to be shared by levites and other less fortunates amongst us (v.29). The levites entitlement then was based on their not having an inheritance (land, assets) amongst the Israelites. Is this basis still valid for most pastors? Answer that.

@ seguno2
I can't get you clearly? but I do believe that nobody can claim what belongs to God for himself. (Lev. 27:30)

@ detruth,

I would like to believe that you are not referring to my entire post as being unclear to you.
If you let me know the exact phrase(s) that are unclear, I can try to re-phrase them. Better still, you might read it again and see if everything becomes clear to you.

round and round the same old cycle.

@detruth
Thanx for all your responses and posts, but despite all your comments and explainations you are still yet to establish biblically that tithes is required of christians as is being practised in today's church you even went on to accuse those of us who wrote against tithing as not being christians just becos we are telling people the detruth about tithes and our position is fully backed by the scriptures. On the contrary it is those of you in favour of tithes that cannot back it scripturally, all you you is to quote malachi 3; 8-12 out of context and misiterprete it like as been done over the years to justify the collection of tithes.
you also said some of us claim old testament blessings but when it comes to tithing we say it is not meant for us as christians. Well in case you don't know tithes was a covenant between God and the levites (and only descendants of Levi could ever be refered to as levites) Malachi 2 : 1 -8 the levites also had there own role to play before they could collect tithes and no one that was not a descendant of Levi was entitled to the part of the tithe meant for the house of God. I wonder how our pastors today qualify to be descendants of levi !!!

The point i am trying to make is that tithing is a covenant between God and the descendants of levi ( that makes it an old testament law as there are no descendants of Levi in the christian world today)and i believe it is wrong for pastors today to claim to be levites just because they want to collect tithes. detruth, you sound like someone who understands the bible to a certain extent, i am sure if you read your bible well you would agree with us that tithing as it obtains in today's church is completely unscriptural and is not required of us as christians. But then again you may be a pastor benefiting from tithes then you would prefer to lead your flock astray in the name of titihing.

Image123:

round and round the same old cycle.

but you keep refusing to acknowledge the truth about tithes as explained properly in the book of deuteronomy, you prefer vague passages that are subject to manipultion like malachi 3 : 8-12

thumsup poster

@ detruth

I notice your signature says you cannot bury the truth. You should realise that truth has to be complete and not make reference only to partial facts of the matter in order to achieve your set objective(s).
What some of us are saying is that based on complete facts of the Bible, tithe is NOT required of [b]CHRIST[/b]ians - i.e followers of Christ in deed and words.
It goes without saying that when you belong to a group, religious or otherwise you will generously give to its smooth operation and if you feel unduly levied you leave it for another group as an option.

Wao, Kunle. Good one there. You're most likely a wordman.
Am i right or correct?

seguno2:

@ detruth
You should realise that truth has to be complete and not make reference only to partial facts of the matter in order to achieve your set objective(s).
What some of us are saying is that based on complete facts of the Bible, tithe is NOT required of [b]CHRIST[/b]ians - i.e followers of Christ in deed and words.

What gives you the impression that you know what is complete?. Thank God its a fact, and NEVER the truth!

KunleOshob:

@detruth
you also said some of us claim old testament blessings but when it comes to tithing we say it is not meant for us as christians. Well in case you don't know tithes was a covenant between God and the levites (and only descendants of Levi could ever be refered to as levites) Malachi 2 : 1 -8 the levites also had there own role to play before they could collect tithes and no one that was not a descendant of Levi was entitled to the part of the tithe meant for the house of God. I wonder how our pastors today qualify to be descendants of levi !!!

The point i am trying to make is that tithing is a covenant between God and the descendants of levi ( that makes it an old testament law as there are no descendants of Levi in the christian world today)and i believe it is wrong for pastors today to claim to be levites just because they want to collect tithes. detruth, you sound like someone who understands the bible to a certain extent, i am sure if you read your bible well you would agree with us that tithing as it obtains in today's church is completely unscriptural and is not required of us as christians. But then again you may be a pastor benefiting from tithes then you would prefer to lead your flock astray in the name of titihing.

I will answer your question if you can tell me whom the scripture is refering to as "Jews" here:
Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.(KJV)

Is it the "Jews" in present day Israel or another? Note here that Paul was writting to the Romans!
If you are not a "Jew" (wherein we find the "Levites" as tribe), then you are not qualified for the blessings of the God of Israel.
This is one of the fundamental truth why we are linked to Jesus and are called Christians
or did Jesus came to the world in the nature of your yourba tribe?
Your problem is that you took Bible like your History/Geography textbook and begin to interpreate it in the knowlegde of the flesh.
That "Book" you are quoting is not written in the flesh, but by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Hence you will always require the help of the "Writer"
in order for you to understand what its really saying.

2 Tim 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, KJV)

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (KJV)

2 Cor 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life(KJV)

Nevertheless, remember that I am totally against those who use tithe for selfish reasons or look for crooked way of syphoning money from people
under the disguise of blessing them. The best you can do is to leave such place. But to conclude that tithe is only meant for the biblical Levite is like saying God only send Jesus to the biblical Israel.
Levites are Priest, and Priest represent the present-day Gospel ministers, but the tithe is not meant for them, but for the management of the Church which include the congregation (you and I).

Mal 3:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.(KJV)

The tithes is not for the Pastor (or whosoever)'s pocket. Its for the storehouse!. Also note that tithe is what God ask you to bring to the storehouse, not just any donation(as many of you claim). The tithe is meant for the management of the Church (which may include the payment of Pastor's salary). The Pastor is also expected to pay his own tithe also. The problem of the these new generation Churches is that they run the whole administration alone with their family, hence they lack control and restriction concerning God's fund. They are those that brought shame to priesthood proffession.

May God give you the grace to understand!

I pay tithes because I believe it is a commandment from the Lord as stated in Malachi 3:8-10. Jesus also made reference to it in Matthew 23:23: “…….For you pay tithes of mint and anise and cumin and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone”. However, I understand the antipathy expressed by different commentators here about it. I believe tithing, like speaking in tongues is one of the areas that Christians must agree to disagree.

The first instance of tithing is Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek, Genesis 14:19. Jacob also made a vow to God to give him a tithe of all, Genesis 28:20-22.

When you go through the book of Deuteronomy, it gives many accounts of tithing and how it should be used. But before that, the Israelites were required to tithe of their crops, fruit and herds. Leviticus 27:30-32. The tithe was received by the Levites to support them. Numbers 18:21, 24. The Levites were in turn to give a tithe of the tithe to support the priests. Numbers 18:26-29. God promises blessings for those who faithfully tithe, and he says that refusing to tithe is like robbing him. Malachi 3:8-12.

Having said that, when Paul spoke about giving, he told the church in Corinth to make a collection based on how they had prospered, 1 Corinthians 16:2. He also said in 2Cor 9:7: Let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. I like the New Living Translation: “You must decide how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure”. For me, this is the crux of the matter and this is where people have issues with tithing and the whole giving in the Church. It is the manner in which it is done and the lifestyles exhibited by those who receive it. It is the way tithing and giving have been magnified above all other biblical doctrine, where people even steal to give because of some promised immediate magical return, as if God were a magician. It is the way God has been turned into some kind of all purpose grocery store for all kinds of demands and expected returns, where Christians equate spirituality with material possessions, where people are compelled to give, if the pastor coughs, give, if you say amen, give, all sorts and this is all about the greed of the people propagating the gospel of giving to the exclusion of all else.

People should be allowed to give willingly and not compelled to do it. Tithing is not a one size fits all Christian doctrine just like speaking in tongues. But I believe that by taking that tenth first and foremost out of your income or whatever it is you receive helps you to put God first, creates a spiritual discipline in you and makes you remember that God is the source of all you have. You may be a very mature Christian who is fully dedicated to God and so have been able to overcome withholding you goods from God and don’t have to struggle to give to him. But that comes from many years of growth in the Lord. And even at that, one has to keep watch.

The tenth of our increase is a very fit proportion to set apart for the honour of God and the service of his sanctuary. But tithing without love for or obedience to God amounts to nothing more than meaningless ritual. And a giving attitude is more important than the amount given.