Kay 17:


You people don't see the issue with the permanence of God's Word, considering his omniscience, wisdom and goodness (honesty). The new reflects the old, if God breaks his Word at will, he will definitely break it in the future.

The law of stoning and Sabbath were promulgated by God in his immeasurable wisdom, hence they are good laws and don't require REFOrM (what's not borken shouldn't be fixed).

pls explain futher with particular reference to how many animals u've sacrificed this year,# of ppl stoned etc etc and the place of Jesus in this ur jewish practices. God bless.

Kay 17:

You people don't see the issue with the permanence of God's Word, considering his omniscience, wisdom and goodness (honesty). The new reflects the old, if God breaks his Word at will, he will definitely break it in the future.

The law of stoning and Sabbath were promulgated by God in his immeasurable wisdom, hence they are good laws and don't require REFOrM (what's not borken shouldn't be fixed).

My brother, we are quoting God's word for you but you are telling us what his word should be. Are you a Christian or a Jew? Do they still teach you to stone people to death?

Heb 8:7
For if that first covenant had been
faultless, then should no place have
been sought for the second.

This does not show permanence if you know what i mean. Lets say its an interim covenant. Besides the prophecy is from the beginning. The israelites were waiting for the messenger of the new covenant(jesus) Malachi 3:1.

christemmbassey: pls explain futher with particular reference to how many animals u've sacrificed this year,# of ppl stoned etc etc and the place of Jesus in this ur jewish practices. God bless.

plus including the pinshors of the levites you pay your tithe.

christemmbassey: pls explain futher with particular reference to how many animals u've sacrificed this year,# of ppl stoned etc etc and the place of Jesus in this ur jewish practices. God bless.

What's wrong with laws given by God??

Pastor Kun:

Your dishonesty knows no bounds, where did I claim to be greater than Abraham You are a disgrace to christianity and I feel ashamed to be associated by faith to hypocrites and dishonest rodents like you who keep giving the christian faith a bad name just to fill their bellies.

I hope you've not forgotten so soon the penultimate post you made before this? Where you said:

Pastor Kun:

Going by this your daft statement I have already outdone Abraham as I have given tithes more than once in my life(when I was still being deceived) unlike Abraham who was known to have done it once. Also by extension, if I am to follow your brainless teaching, I can as well start sleeping with my maid because Abraham did so or even offer Animal sacrifices like Abraham did. Useless hypocrite.

Doesn't the statement made by you in the quote above imply that you are better than Abraham? In case you don't get it, you claimed to have:

1. Outdone Abraham in paying more tithes;
2. That you are better than Abraham because he slept with his maid;
3. That you are better than Abraham because he offered animal sacrifices.

If this isn't the implication of what you posted then tell us what else it means.

OLAADEGBU:

I hope you've not forgotten so soon the penultimate post you made before this? Where you said:



Doesn't the statement made by you in the quote above imply that you are better than Abraham? In case you don't get it, you claimed to have:

1. Outdone Abraham in paying more tithes;
2. That you are better than Abraham because he slept with his maid;
3. That you are better than Abraham because he offered animal sacrifices.

If this isn't the implication of what you posted then tell us what else it means.

I would have suggested you go back to school as it appears you lack basic comprehension skills but knowing you for the dishonest vermin you are, I know it's a deliberate attempt by you to obfuscate the truth. Aside I never knew paying tithes is now a measure of greatness. It may be in a cult like deeperlife but it amounts to nothing amongst the true followers of christ.

Pastor Kun:

I would have suggested you go back to school as it appears you lack basic comprehension skills but knowing you for the dishonest vermin you are, I know it's a deliberate attempt by you to obfuscate the truth. Aside I never knew paying tithes is now a measure of greatness. It may be in a cult like deeperlife but it amounts to nothing amongst the true followers of christ.

Your Ph.D (Pull him down) syndrome is a waste of time. Check this thread out to see what vision was seen about tithes and the M.O.G. you are quick to pull down with your mouth. Repent today tomorrow may be too late.

https://www.nairaland.com/1289767/heavenly-mansions-vision-rapture

OLAADEGBU:

Your Ph.D (Pull him down) syndrome is a waste of time. Check this thread out to see what vision was seen about tithes and the M.O.G. you are quick to pull down with your mouth. Repent today tomorrow may be too late.

https://www.nairaland.com/1289767/heavenly-mansions-vision-rapture

of course false prophets like you will always believe false visions of heaven and hell, what is new ? When was the last time you checked the authenticity of these fables with the inerrant word of God for accuracy, I guess never !!!

"Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, ‘Declares the LORD,’ although I have not spoken?”" - Ezekiel 13:7

frosbel:

of course false prophets like you will always believe false visions of heaven and hell, what is new ? When was the last time you checked the authenticity of these fables with the inerrant word of God for accuracy, I guess never !!!

"Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, ‘Declares the LORD,’ although I have not spoken?”" - Ezekiel 13:7

Abi oh! It's amazing these so called prophets that see visions never see or have warning for the church concerning the massive corruption of the word and the several false doctrines and practises going on today. It is only visions concerning tithes for their filthy pockets they always see. Useless bunch of rogues.

frosbel:

of course false prophets like you will always believe false visions of heaven and hell, what is new ? When was the last time you checked the authenticity of these fables with the inerrant word of God for accuracy, I guess never !!!

"Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, ‘Declares the LORD,’ although I have not spoken?”" - Ezekiel 13:7

This word of prophecy is being fulfilled with your post.

"Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham said to him They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead"

(Luke 16:27-31).

Kay 17:

God's Word, considering his omniscience,

Can you show me that ^ word in the bible and?

Are you sure it is not your word (human knowledge) that you wish to input into the bible?

Pls, if it is not in the bible, you can keep it, i am not interested.
Thanks.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
The thief must no longer steal. Instead, he must do honest work with his own hands, so that he has something to share with anyone in need. Ephesians 4:28

We pour out our heart message to our thiefing tithe teachers who steal religiously from Christian people via tithes\tithing that they should stop thiefing from the poor. The poor in scriptures was never commanded to tithe. Jesus never collected tithe. The Apostles never collected tithe. There's no mention of tithe for Christians. Stop thiefing and they should go work with their hands so they can share with those in needs. This is the gospel message!

truthislight:

Can you show me that ^ word in the bible and?

Are you sure it is not your word (human knowledge) that you wish to input into the bible?

Pls, if it is not in the bible, you can keep it, i am not interested.
Thanks.

Your idea of God is a learning God??

Kay 17:

Your idea of God is a learning God??

it is a pity.

What was he trying to say?
Smh.

Let us all reason together.

The Christian life is simpler than we can imagine. We have made it so complicated, so religious, and God grieves over our bondage. He wants to bless us financially so that we can bless others. This only comes by truly understanding His word and listening daily for the voice of the Spirit – not following religious formulas.
Is it wrong to tithe? No. The key principle in New Testament giving is found in (2 Cor 9:7). “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, God loves a cheerful giver” (NIV). If you decide in your heart you want to give regularly a certain amount of money, or a particular percentage of your income, that’s fine, so long as you can do it:
• without reluctance
• without being compelled by someone (or your own guilt)
• cheerfully
So much of popular teaching about tithing and giving requires brainwashing; getting you to ignore your heartfelt reluctance, compelling you to give a certain percentage, and convincing you that doing so should be a cheerful act. This is what the Bible condemns.
What you give must sit right with your heart. No matter what you give, there is no special blessing for tithing and no curse if you don’t. Give as the Spirit directs you, and you will be blessed. (Gal 6:7-10 (NIV).
The gist of the entire teaching about the tithe demonstrates that careful study of the Scriptures about tithing does not and cannot lead to the conclusions about tithing that are popularly taught in evangelical and charismatic circles today. There is no way we can conclude that tithing now means –or ever did mean – that believers are to give ten percent of all their money income to the local church. Unless we twist the Scriptures to say what we think they say, and not what they actually teach.

There is no way that we can turn the “storehouses” of the Old testament temple into New Testament local church, and make the Old Covenant priests the New Covenant pastor. Unless, of course, we twist the Scriptures. Unfortunately, we have become bound by these traditional teachings to the point of feeling they are correct. We must guard against reading our contemporary notions of the clergy/laity distinction into the text. This separation between “common believers” and “professional ministers” is not God’s design for His New Covenant Church. It is unscriptural. However, we can see the importance of giving God our best, of fulfilling our covenant obligations to the Lord.

The Origin of ‘Storerooms’
These ‘rooms’ are the ‘storehouse mentioned in (Malachi 3:10 NIV) “bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. These storerooms in the temple were not part of the original design of the tabernacle or temple; they were built during the time of revival under Hezekiah to hold the tithes (food products, not money) that should have been coming in every year (2 Chron 31:4-11). Hezekiah commanded them to prepare rooms in the house of the Lord. Out of these surplus, the poor, widows, and the fatherless were to be provided for. But the Levites were turning them away, which is a great injustice.

The tithe doctrine is promoted in Christendom by ‘those who have religious systems to fund, and who want to turn the gospel into a money-making opportunity. If we insist on clinging to the popular ‘doctrine of the tithe’ as binding on Christians, then you need to be more ‘scriptural’ in your interpretation…
• Bring food crops or livestock to church – but only if you own a farm.
• Pay your national income and social security taxes with these grains and animals.
• Make sure that one percent of what you bring is scarified on a properly built altar by a priest. who receives no other remuneration but a portion of food you bring.
• Skip work every seventh year, and two years in a row starting the forty-ninth year, expecting God to bless your crops and send enough rain to store up plenty in the preceding years.
• If you are unable to carry a large load to Jerusalem when you bring your tithe, only then sell it, convert it to money (adding on twenty percent as a penalty for doing so), then take the money to Jerusalem and buy livestock and grain, food and drink – even “fermented drink or anything you wish” and have a big party “in the presence of the Lord”. (Deut 12:4-7)

The Church is a spiritual people under grace, not the Law. The doctrine of the tithe was for a natural people in a physical land with a theocratic government. Take the people out of the land, and it makes no sense to reinterpret the tithe as anything other than what God specifically taught it to be: the paying of taxes in an agrarian society for civil, religious, and social security purposes.

A review of the Scriptural Teaching on the Tithe:
• The tithe was never money or a percentage of wages earned, it was crops and livestock (Lev 27:26,30)
• The tithe was not required of everyone in Israel; it was only landowners in the eleven tribes. Aliens, slaves, servants, labourers, and the tribe Levi were exempt.
• In its original context, Malachi was not written to all of Israel. It was directed at the tribe of Levi and particularly the Priestly clan.
• The primary emphasis of Malachi is not the sin of the people in failing to tithe, but the sin of the Levities and Priests in dereliction of duties and misappropriation of the people’s tithes and offering. Malachi is basically an oracle of judgement. It is directed not to all of Israel, but at the Levites and priests.
• The Levities took the place of all other Israelites in performing civil and religious duties for the nation.
• In Malachi, God was specifically dealing with the Levites and Priest for their misuse of the tithes (foodstuffs) and offerings (sacrifices) that was causing the people to withhold their giving!
• God commanded them to “bring the whole tithe – the grain of the field, fruit of the vine, herd animals and flock animals – into the storehouse, so that there may be food in my house, the house of Israel”.
• He was charging them to administer their civil and religious tax income properly.
• In exchange, all landowning Israelites gave ten percent of the grain of the field, fruit of the vine, animals from the herd, and animals from the flock to the Levities as payment for their services (taxes). As the Levities are not entitled to any part of the Promised Land, they are full time ‘servants’. The Lord God is their inheritance.
• The Levities are divided into three clans – Gershonites, Merarites and Kohathites. They first two perform civil governmental functions, whilst the third perform religious governmental functions under a theocratic rule.
• 1. Gershonites (they care for the tabernacle tent coverings). 2. Merarites (they care for the frame of the tabernacle, pegs and posts) and 3. Kohathites (they care for the sanctuary and the ark and ministered as priests).
• Two of the Levitical clans (Gershonites and Merarites), further tithed on the ten percent of grain of the field, fruit of the vine, animals from the herd and animals from the flock to the remaining priestly clan (Kohathites). (or all three clans tithed on that income to those Kohathites who are currently serving as priests).(Num 18:26-28)
• The Lord accuses the priests of dishonouring Him by offering diseased animals for sacrifice and turning their nose at the Lord’s table (Mal 1:6-14)
• The ‘house’ refers not only to the temple, but to the whole house of Israel. The ‘storehouse’ or storerooms refer to those rooms built specifically to store foodstuffs, not a treasury to store money.
• The produce brought into the storerooms was not for the upkeep of the physical temple structure or other administrative costs. It was meant to feed people – not only the priestly clan, but the poor, the widows, and aliens (Deut 14:28-29). This was part of their ‘social security’ system for the disadvantaged.
• The tithe to the priests who were currently serving in the temple was only one percent of what Israel brought in. It was food, not a salary.
• This prophecy was given to natural Israel, who are stewards of a physical land. That’s why it refers to food, grain crops and so on. Even when Jesus mentioned tithing in the New Testament (Matt 23:23; Luke 11:42), he identified tithing as the giving of foodstuffs (garden herbs). And it was in the context of the Old Covenant people keeping the Old Covenant law, which had been for 2,000 years fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
• In the New Covenant, Christ has fulfilled the Law and cancelled its judgement against us (Matt 5:17; Col 2:14). Therefore, there is no longer a curse for believers who do not tithe.
• On the other hand, contrary to what Christian tithing proponents believe, there is a curse on those who still believe the Law applies to Christians (even it it’s only the tithe doctrine) (Gal 3:10-13)(.
• Whether it is circumcision (now done only for health reasons) or tithing, no part of the law can be mixed with grace (Gal 5:3-4).

Believers are free from legalism, ritualism and performance oriented, human religiosity. Yet free believers still bind themselves for the sake of the gospel (Rom 14:1-15:6, 1 Cor 8-10). As Frank Stagg states in his book, ‘New Testament Theology’, the irony of man’s plight is that bondage is the result of his attempt to be free (page 32).

Most of the summaries are from the book titled: ‘The Truth About Tithing, What the Bible Really Teaches’ authored Lee A Howard.

Thank U RanchOwner for the excellent contribution

One would expect this to end the argument but lo and behold it may just as well start another