Chapter 25 How one ought to despise the flesh, and how one ought to live in the world.

Then said he who writeth: 'O master, true are thy words and therefore have we forsaken all to follow thee. Tell us, then how we ought to hate our flesh: for to kill oneself is not lawful, and living we needs must give it its livelihood.'

Jesus answered: 'Keep thy flesh like a horse, and thou shalt live securely. For unto a horse food is given by measure, and labour without measure, and the bridle is put on him that he may walk at thy will, he is tied up that he may not annoy any one, he is kept in a poor place, and beaten when he is not obedient: so do thou, then, O Barnabas, and thou shalt live always with God.

'And be not offended at my words, for David the prophet did the same thing, as he confesseth , saying: "I am as an horse before thee: and am always by thee."

'Now tell me, whether is poorer he who is content with little, or he who desireth much? Verily I say unto you, that if the world had but a sound mind no one would amass anything for himself, but all would be in common. But in this is known its madness, that the more it amasseth the more it desireth, And much as it amasseth, for the fleshly repose of others doth it amass the same. Therefore let one single robe suffice for you, cast away your purse, carry no wallet, no sandals on your feet; and do not think, saying: "What shall happen to us ?" but have thought to do the will of God, and he will provide for your need, insomuch that nothing shall be lacking unto you.

'Verily I say unto you. that the amassing much in this life giveth sure witness of not having anything to receive in the other. For he that hath Jerusalem for his native country buildeth not houses in Samaria, for that there is enmity between there cities. Understand ye?'

'Yea, answered the disciples.

Yet you find many priests driving the best cars and even owning a private jet! Is this what Christ preached? How will they accept the scripture when most of them believe in falsehood and vanity.

Chapter 26 How one ought to love God. And in this chapter is contained the wonderful contention of Abraham with his father.

Then Jesus said: "There was a man on a journey who, as he was walking, discovered a treasure in a field that was to be sold for five pieces of money. Straightway the man, when he knew this, sold his cloak to buy that field. Is that credible?" The disciples answered: "He who would not believe this is mad."

Thereupon Jesus said: "You will be mad if you do not give your senses to God to buy your soul in which resides the treasure of love; for love is an incomparable treasure. For he that loves God has God for his own; and whoever has God has everything." Peter answered: "O master, how can one love God with true love? Tell us."

Jesus replied: "Truly I say to you that he who shall not hate his father and his mother, and his own life, and children and wife for love of God, such is not worthy to be loved of God." Peter answered: "O master, it is written in the Law of God in the Book of Moses: Honour your father, that you may live long upon the earth. And further he says: Cursed be the son that obeys not his father and his mother" God commanded that such a disobedient son should be stoned by the wrath of the people before the gate of the city. [Why] do you bid us to hate father and mother?"

Jesus replied: "Every word of mine is true, because it is not mine, but God's, who has sent me to the House of Israel. Therefore I say to you that all that which you possess God has bestowed it upon you: and so, what is more precious, the gift or the giver? When your father and your mother with every other thing is a stumbling block to you in the service of God, abandon them as enemies. Did not God say to Abraham: Go forth from the house of your father and of your kindred, and come to dwell in the land which I will give to you and to your seed? Why did God say this, except that the father of Abraham was an image-maker, who made and worshipped false gods? [For this reason] there was enmity between them, such that the father wished to burn his son." Peter answered: "Your words are true. I pray you tell us how Abraham mocked his father."

Jesus replied: "Abraham was seven years old when he began to seek God. So one day he said to his father: 'Father, what made man?' The foolish father answered: 'Man [made man]; for I made you, and my father made me.' Abraham answered: 'Father, it is not so; for I have heard an old man weeping and saying: 'O my God, why have you not given me children?'' His father replied: 'It is true, my son, that God helps man to make man, but he does not put his hands to [the task]; it is only necessary that man come to pray to his God and to give him lambs and sheep, and his God will help him.' Abraham answered: 'How many gods are there, father?' The old man replied: 'They are infinite in number, my son.'

Then Abraham said: 'O father, what shall I do if I serve one god and another [god] wishes me evil because I do not serve him? In any case discord will come between them, and so war will arise among the gods. And if, perhaps, the god that wills me evil shall slay my own god, what shall I do? It is certain that he will slay me also. The old man, laughing, answered: "O son, have no fear, for no god makes war upon another god; no, in the great temple there are a thousand gods with the great god Baal; and I am now near seventy years old, and yet never have I seen that one god has smitten another god. And assuredly all men do not serve one god, but one man one, and another."

Abraham answered: "So, then, they have peace among themselves?" His father said: "They have." Then said Abraham: "O father, what be the gods like?" The old man answered: "Fool, every day I make a god, which I sell to others to buy bread, and you know not what the gods are like!" And then at that moment he was making an idol. "This," said he, "is of palm wood, that one is of olive, that little one is of ivory: see how fine it is! Does it not seem as though it were alive? Assuredly, it lacks but breath!"

Abraham answered: "And so, father, the gods are without breath? Then how do they give breath? And being without life, how give they life? It is certain, father, that these are not God." The old man was wroth at these words, saying: "If you were of age to understand, I would break your head with this axe: But hold your peace, because you have not understanding!" Abraham answered: "Father, if the gods help to make man, how can it be that man should make the gods? And if the gods are made of wood, it is a great sin to burn wood. But tell me, father, how is it that, when you have made so many gods, the gods have not helped you to make so many other children that you should become the most powerful man in the world?"

The father was beside himself, hearing his son speak so; the son went on: "Father, was the world for some time without men?" Yes," answered the old man, "and why?" "Because," said Abraham, "I should like to know who made the first God." "Now go out of my house!" said the old man, "and leave me to make this god quickly, and speak no words to me; for, when you are hungry you desire bread and not words." Abraham said: "A fine god, truly, that you cut him as you will, and he defends not himself!" Then the old man was angry, and said: "All the world says that it is a god, and you, mad fellow, say that it is not. By my gods, if you were a man I could kill you!" And having said this, he gave blows and kicks to Abraham, and chased him from the house."

Do you practice what you preach at all? If I reply to your post you would be saying another thing but here you are posting without first reading through what you are sending. Maybe you and your folks should let us dig deep into the history of christianity and maybe by the time we are through, you would realise the truth provided you are ready to do away with your pride, arrogance and embrace the truth. I am very sure that by the time we shed light on the origin of christianity, you and 4him will disagree, you being a catholic and him being a protestant.

Dear I already know the history of Christianity. Not just from the Bible. No one has ever stopped you from digging deep into Christianity, but we are being stopped from digging deep into The Great Religion. If you dig deep enough, you will believe, trust me. I did read through and have engaged with you in other threads and still come to the conclusion above. Take it or leave it. If it hurts your feelings, sorry. Get over it.
I do practice what I preach.

You don't get it, do you? For me it is a direct pointer that there are varied opinion to devinity of jesus. All of them, since they are not all agreeing with the other view point(s), can not be correct. My question to you is that could it not be that somebody exagerated here? Is memorex equalsto live? Is maybe equals actually? Is fantasy equals to reality? Is fallacy equals to truth? Can human equals to God?

I do get it. But how will you know which one is the truth? Well it is clear this one isn't the truth. The time it was written and the language it was written in tells that it is not the truth.
If I write about The Great Religion and say that it is the truth, it doesn't make it the truth, does it? If I write it in Bini language and say that this is the tru book of The Great Religion, would that make it true? Absolutely not, why? Because the Prophet Muuhaaamad did not speak Bini.
There aren't different variations out there. Most of them say the exact same thing. But with this one IT IS VERY EVIDENT that it was not written by Barnabas.

So why are you still hanging on to it?

Or could it be that you have become so desperate about proving that Christianity is false, that you would cling to anything that surfaces and hold it to be true.

I remember you cheering Frizy on to pst some more as if the Gospel is actually true without doing the research yourself, to see that it isn't.

What is your prove for this statement. Please don't come here and starting crying that it was a 14th or 15th century published book. What many of you christians don't understand is you don't even know the history of the church

It is a fact that it was written in the 14th century. The proof is already there by historians. I am Catholic I know the history of my Church. Don't insult me. I also know that the history of several nations back the history of my Church. Unless you want to wipe out the history of nations and say that they to are corrupted.

During and immediately after Christ's ascension, there was no one that worshipped Christ as you do now

Yes they did and we do the same way today. Check out the history of the Catholic church. There's a reason why we hold on to tradition. Before the Bible came, there were traditions of the Church. The Chruch is not a building, it is a people.

Barnabas we know was instructed by Christ to write the scripture(as in whatever he saw). When Paul started to change his mind and proclaim a new faith-Christianity, all the disciples were afriad of him except Barnabas who accepted him

The very first book of the New Testament was written by Paul. They were written (with inspirations by the holy spirit) by the Disciples and apostles because of the persecution of the Church. The disciples were dying one by one and a recording of everything needed to be kept, so that future generations would know the truth.

Let me ask you. Have you read the book or do you have a copy? You may have never read or heard about it. But you christians are very rigid when it comes to knowing the truth. The only thing you find them flexible with is deceiving themselves, and thinking they make a fool. What an irony.

What book the Qu'ran? Ask Olabowale, he will give you the answer. You won't take my word for it. So ask him.

Why because a foolish writer from answeringislam.com can write to fool many retards!

No, because historians proved it. I knew about it before this topic was even posted.

They never get the message. All they know is finding excuses. Who do you fool? Us or you. Your likeness is as one that refuses to read and believes he knows all.

I have read and know the truth. Dude stop speaking as if you know me.
Oya answer me. What toothpaste do I use? What's the colour of my toothbrush? Am I black or white? Oya answer me.
Where am I typing from?
Since you know me so well and wknow what I have done in m life, answer me.
Rubbish.

What will my benefit of you knowing the truth be if it is God's will to lead you astray. Deaf,dumb and blind. And they return not

Olabowale, warn this boy o. Let him know, asap.

95% of people who God has shown the truth believe is it truer than your Pauline bible. I have said it times without number, from the Old testament to the New, they're written by completely different authors that disguises with the true author's names.

1 out of 2 people is 50%. You're percentage holds no basis. 4 out of 5 is 80%. Hope you understand mathematics. Just because it is 95% doesn't mean that it's a significant number of people. Got it.

Well how many Mus'lims in Nigeria understand Arabic?Does language have anything doing with the message therein?Your ignorance is between you and your God. Tell me, the fact that it was in spanish or italian. Does this mean it was the first copy or only retrived.

The original manuscript was written in Italian/Spanish. Barnabas was an apostle. He was named Barnabas by the Disciples, not Christ.

Okay, what is the truth?! That a man is your god?

No Christ is God.
He never denied it and it's in the Bible.

If I start asking questions about The Great Religion, it would get deleted. Such as why are the prophets Jewish but the covenant was with the Arabs? Why does the Qu'ran state that the covenant was with the Isrealites and later that it was with Ishmeal, the Arabs
?

Don't get me started. I advice you to dig deep into christianity, but make sure that what you find is not fabricated, So go to credible sources.

Yet you find many priests driving the best cars and even owning a private jet! Is this what Christ preached? How will they accept the scripture when most of them believe in falsehood and vanity.

Priests own nothing. Not even the shirts on their backs. If I am driving my mother's mercedes, does that mean that I own it? No.
The Pope doesn't even have a house. Even in the Vatican he lives in an extremely compact room.
Speak of what you know of and not what you know not of. Don't let your eyes deceive you.

4HIM

Read the entire NT, the fundamental doctrines of Christ are clearly enunciated there.

Ok here it is:
Let us get some example in the Bible about Jesus preaching having found this brief information LET EXAMINE THIS VERSES.

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, . . ." (Matthew 9:35)

"Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, . . ." (Mark 1:14)

"And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, . . ." (Luke 20:1)
.
WHICH of the GOSPEL WAS JESUS Preached? Mathew, mark, Luke. or John


You always mocking in this forum about the Gospel of Barnabas can you show us the Gospel of Jesus so that we can compare and come out to the conclusion of this topic.

this is so dumb it makes you want to puke. The Egyptians, ethiopians, greeks, cypriots, persians are as old as 4000yrs as a people . . . if they still exist today then why not the jews?

Roman historian Tacitus wrote that many of his time believed that the Jews "were a race of Ethiopian origin."
The Bible classifies the Ethiopians & Jews together, "Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the Lord." (Amos 9:7)
That the Jews got their language, religion & culture from the Canaanites & Sumerians through Babylon, is well documented by historians.
Tell me which of the prophets of the Canaanites and Sumerians recorded in the Jewish books as you pointed out that all prophet are descendant of Isaac and Jacob consider as Jews.
It is incorrect to refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as Jews. Because the terms “Jew” and Judaism” were not used generally to refer to this Nation until hundreds of year after their time. To make the story short, we came out the Children of Israel/Jacob. As centuries passed by , the descendants of Israel/Jacob became slaves in Egypt. They suffered greatly under the hand of Later Pharaohs. But God brought the children of Israel/Jacob out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses. God revealed the Torah to his people, both the written and oral Torah.
When the Children of Israel was started to build as a Nation and declared themselves as Jewish people?

My people.

The canon [list of books] of the bible was approved in the year 393 AD.
You guys are about 1,600 years late.

Better luck next time - in trying to smuggle in a fraudulent 'gospel'.

@Lady

Dear I already know the history of Christianity. Not just from the Bible. No one has ever stopped you from digging deep into Christianity, but we are being stopped from digging deep into The Great Religion. If you dig deep enough, you will believe, trust me. I did read through and have engaged with you in other threads and still come to the conclusion above. Take it or leave it. If it hurts your feelings, sorry. Get over it.
I do practice what I preach.

I was like you before I got reverted to The Great Religion. There was nothing like christianity during Jesus' time and it was started by pagans and most of the doctrines have pagan origin. So if you are willing, I am ready to unveil some of what seem hidden to you as a christian. My quest for the truth made me familiar with some of the doctrines preached by some of the church.

You said that you engaged me in some threads but you and I never did that much and the only one I remembered vividly is the one you told me that it was you and Olabowale that were discussing bla bla bla.

Nothing hurts me. I was just trying to refer you to one of your posts towards me where you told me not to interfere in your discussion.

Lastly, if you really want to know the truth about christianity, then you have me beside you. Take it or leave, you would gain nothing by dying as a christian because Jesus was never one and never knew what christianity is all about.

samba123:

Roman historian Tacitus wrote that many of his time believed that the Jews "were a race of Ethiopian origin."

From history we know these two races are distinct.

samba123:

The Bible classifies the Ethiopians & Jews together, "Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the Lord." (Amos 9:7)

So if i said you and babs787 are birds of the same feather does it mean you have the same parents? You shld be ashamed of ur poor scholarship.

samba123:

That the Jews got their language, religion & culture from the Canaanites & Sumerians through Babylon, is well documented by historians.

Do the babylonians serve Jehovah and possess a torah?

samba123:

Tell me which of the prophets of the Canaanites and Sumerians recorded in the Jewish books as you pointed out that all prophet are descendant of Isaac and Jacob consider as Jews.

the bible has no record of canaanite or sumerian prophets, pls check your qu'ran maybe your al'lah smuggled such nonsense into it.

samba123:

It is incorrect to refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as Jews.

But it is correct to say they are the direct ancestors of the jews . . . no?

samba123:

Because the terms “Jew” and Judaism” were not used generally to refer to this Nation until hundreds of year after their time.

Dont be so stupid, that is because as at that time neither Abraham nor Isaac or Jacob was large enough to stand alone as a nation. Oduduwa is regarded as the father of the yorubas, but the term "yoruba" was never used when he was alive . . . does that mean oduduwa is hausa?

samba123:

To make the story short, we came out the Children of Israel/Jacob. As centuries passed by , the descendants of Israel/Jacob became slaves in Egypt. They suffered greatly under the hand of Later Pharaohs. But God brought the children of Israel/Jacob out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses. God revealed the Torah to his people, both the written and oral Torah.

what has this got to do with you? WHAT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ISHMAEL? Shouldnt that be of more concern to you dishonest people?

samba123:

When the Children of Israel was started to build as a Nation and declared themselves as Jewish people?

Go ask them.

http://www.answeringi'slam.org/Barnabas/saleeb.html

Ndipe:

http://www.answering-the great religion.org/Barnabas/saleeb.html

What else, than that God forsaken site. It shouldn't be answeringislam.com but answersforthepagans.com!

imhotep:

My people.

The canon [list of books] of the bible was approved in the year 393 AD.
You guys are about 1,600 years late.

Better luck next time - in trying to smuggle in a fraudulent 'gospel'.

To Those who need to Know

How The Gospel of Barnabas Survived.

    The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 C.E. Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy.  He had quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This shows that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity. 

    In 325 C.E., the Nicene Council was held, where it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed. An Edict was issued that any one in possession of these Gospels will be put to death.

     In 383 C.E., the Pope secured a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas and kept it in his private library.

    In the fourth year of Emperor Zeno (478 C.E. ), the remains of Barnabas were discovered and there was found on his breast a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas written by his own hand. (Acia Sanctorum Boland Junii Tom II, Pages 422 and 450. Antwerp 1698) . The famous Vulgate Bible appears to be based on this Gospel.


    Pope Sixtus (1585-90) had a friend, Fra Marino. He found the Gospel of Barnabas in the private library of the Pope. Fra  Marino was interested because he had read the writings of Iranaeus where Barnabas had been profusely quoted. The Italian manuscript passed through different hands till it reached "a person of great name and authority" in Amsterdam, "who during his life time was often heard to put a high value to this piece". After his death it came in the possession of J. E. Cramer, a Councillor of the King of Prussia. In 1713 Cramer presented this manuscript to the famous connoisseur of books, Prince Eugene of Savoy. In 1738 along with the library of the Prince it found its way into Hofbibliothek in Vienna. There it now rests.

     Toland, in his "Miscellaneous Works" (published posthumously in 1747), in Vol. I, page 380, mentions that the Gospel of Barnabas was still extant. In Chapter XV he refers to the Glasian Decree of 496 C.E. where "Evangelium Barnabe" is included in the list of forbidden books. Prior to that it had been forbidden by Pope Innocent in 465 C.E. and by the Decree of the Western Churches in 382 C.E.

    Barnabas is also mentioned in the Stichometry of Nicephorus Serial No. 3, Epistle of Barnabas . . . Lines 1, 300.
Then again in the list of Sixty Books
Serial No. 17. Travels and teaching of the Apostles.
Serial No. 18. Epistle of Barnabas.
Serial No. 24. Gospel According to Barnabas.
A Greek version of the Gospel of Barnabas is also found in a solitary fragment. The rest is burnt.

Frizy:

To Those who need to Know

How The Gospel of Barnabas Survived.

    The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 C.E. Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy.  He had quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This shows that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity. 

    In 325 C.E., the Nicene Council was held, where it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed. An Edict was issued that any one in possession of these Gospels will be put to death.

     In 383 C.E., the Pope secured a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas and kept it in his private library.

    In the fourth year of Emperor Zeno (478 C.E. ), the remains of Barnabas were discovered and there was found on his breast a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas written by his own hand. (Acia Sanctorum Boland Junii Tom II, Pages 422 and 450. Antwerp 1698) . The famous Vulgate Bible appears to be based on this Gospel.


    Pope Sixtus (1585-90) had a friend, Fra Marino. He found the Gospel of Barnabas in the private library of the Pope. Fra  Marino was interested because he had read the writings of Iranaeus where Barnabas had been profusely quoted. The Italian manuscript passed through different hands till it reached "a person of great name and authority" in Amsterdam, "who during his life time was often heard to put a high value to this piece". After his death it came in the possession of J. E. Cramer, a Councillor of the King of Prussia. In 1713 Cramer presented this manuscript to the famous connoisseur of books, Prince Eugene of Savoy. In 1738 along with the library of the Prince it found its way into Hofbibliothek in Vienna. There it now rests.

     Toland, in his "Miscellaneous Works" (published posthumously in 1747), in Vol. I, page 380, mentions that the Gospel of Barnabas was still extant. In Chapter XV he refers to the Glasian Decree of 496 C.E. where "Evangelium Barnabe" is included in the list of forbidden books. Prior to that it had been forbidden by Pope Innocent in 465 C.E. and by the Decree of the Western Churches in 382 C.E.

    Barnabas is also mentioned in the Stichometry of Nicephorus Serial No. 3, Epistle of Barnabas . . . Lines 1, 300.
Then again in the list of Sixty Books
Serial No. 17. Travels and teaching of the Apostles.
Serial No. 18. Epistle of Barnabas.
Serial No. 24. Gospel According to Barnabas.
A Greek version of the Gospel of Barnabas is also found in a solitary fragment. The rest is burnt.

Remind me to tell these fairy tales to my children and grandchildren. Please.

imhotep:

Remind me to tell these fairy tales to my children and grandchildren. Please.

Is that the point. I thought you were all saying its forgery and was a 14th century book. Now that there is a prove,see how they dodge in style.

Chapter 27 In this chapter is clearly seen how improper is laughter in men: also the prudence of Abraham.
The disciples laughed over the madness of the old man, and stood amazed at the prudence of Abraham. But Jesus reproved them, saying: "You have forgotten the words of the prophet, who says: Present laughter is a herald of weeping to come, and further, You shall not go where is laughter, but sit where they weep, because this life passes in miseries." Then Jesus said, "In the time of Moses, know you not that for laughing and mocking at others God turned into hideous beasts many men of Egypt? Beware that in anywise you laugh not at any one, for you shall surely weep [for it]."

The disciples answered: "We laughed over the madness of the old man." Then Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, every like loves his like, and therein finds pleasure. Therefore, if you were not mad you would not laugh at madness. They answered: "My God have mercy on us. Jesus said: "So be it."

Then said Philip: "O master, how came it to pass that Abraham's father wished to burn his son?" Jesus answered: "One day, Abraham having come to the age of twelve years, his father said to him: "Tomorrow is the festival of all the gods; therefore we shall go to the great temple and bear a present to my god, great Baal. And you shall choose for yourself a god, for you are of age to have a god."

Abraham answered with guile: "Willingly, O my father." And so betimes in the morning they went before every one else to the temple. But Abraham bare beneath his tunic an axe hidden. Whereupon, having entered into the temple, as the crowd increased Abraham hid himself behind an idol in a dark part of the temple. His father, when he departed, believed that Abraham had gone home before him, wherefore he did not stay to seek him.

Chapter 28 Abraham Destroyeth The Idols 

When every one had departed from the temple, the priests closed the temple and went away. Then Abraham took the axe and cut off the feet of all the idols, except the great god Baal. At its feet he placed the axe, amid the ruins which the statues made, for they, through being old and composed of pieces, fell in pieces. Thereupon, Abraham, going forth from the temple, seen by certain men, who suspected him of having gone to thieve something from the temple. So they laid hold on him, and having arrived at the temple, when they saw their gods so broken in pieces, they cried out with lamentation: "Come quickly, O men, and let us slay him who has slain our gods!" There ran together there about ten thousand men, with the priests, and questioned Abraham of the reason why he had destroyed their gods.

Abraham answered: "You are foolish! Shall then a man slay God? It is the great God that has slain them. See you not that axe which he has near his feet? Certain it is that he desires no fellows." Then arrived there the father of Abraham, who, mindful of the many discourses of Abraham against their gods, and recognizing the axe wherewith Abraham had broken in pieces the idols, cried out: "It has been this traitor of a son of mine, who has slain our gods! for this axe is mine." And he recounted to them all that had passed between him and his son. Accordingly the men collected a great quantity of wood, and having bound Abraham's hands and feet put him upon the wood, and put fire underneath.

'Lo! God, through his angel, commanded the fire that it should not burn Abraham his servant. The fire blazed up with great fury, and burned about two thousand men of those who had condemned Abraham to death. Abraham truly found himself free, being carried by the angel of God near to the house of his father, without seeing who carried him; and thus Abraham escaped death."

@Samba 123

The definition of gospel:

something regarded as true and implicitly believed: to take his report for gospel.  

glad tidings, esp. concerning salvation and the kingdom of God as announced to the world by Christ.  

The Gospels are truths spoken by Christ. It is about Christ's life and his ministry of the Gospel (truth) of God.
Get it now.

The Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is the same Gospel that Christ taught, except it is in written form.

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, . . ." (Matthew 9:35)

"Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, . . ." (Mark 1:14)

"And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, . . ." (Luke 20:1)
.
WHICH of the GOSPEL WAS JESUS Preached? Mathew, mark, Luke. or John

Looking at the definition above of what Gospel is, I will answer your question by saying. He spoke of the Gospel of God. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, spoke of the Gospel that Christ spoke of. Spoke of the Gospel of Christ.

I hope you understand what Gospel means now. Gospel is not Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I was like you before I got reverted to The Great Religion.

I am soooo sorry.

There was nothing like christianity during Jesus' time and it was started by pagans and most of the doctrines have pagan origin

*buzzer* wrong. Christianity was started by Christ. The moment the Holy Spirit filled the disciples and Mary. Even the word Christian is in the Bible. The church was spoken of by Christ, by the way, Church is not a building, it is the people of God, followers of Christ. No the doctrines have Christian origin. Just because you don't understand them, doesn't mean that it is not true. Also keep in mind that any one can post anything on the internet, even the devil himself. There is a reason why Christianity is under scrutiny, the devil is trying to tear down God's Church and he is working through people and false prophets.

So if you are willing, I am ready to unveil some of what seem hidden to you as a christian. My quest for the truth made me familiar with some of the doctrines preached by some of the church.

I am very willing. Please make sure you come out with hard facts, not some conspiracy theories developed by men and spread around the world. Come with hard facts.

Nothing hurts me. I was just trying to refer you to one of your posts towards me where you told me not to interfere in your discussion.

Ok good. So how did I interfere in your discussion? I particulary addressed Olabowale this time around too.

Lastly, if you really want to know the truth about christianity, then you have me beside you. Take it or leave, you would gain nothing by dying as a christian because Jesus was never one and never knew what christianity is all about.

I already know the truth. Because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it is not the truth. You could have been lied to. According to me, you have been lied to along with many muuslims. Well i will gain a lot dying as a Christian. I will gain the Kingdom of God, take it or leave it. How can Jesus be a Christian, when he himself is Christ. To be a Christian is to be Christ like. To walk in the footsteps of Christ. How can Christ then become "himself like" does that make sense to you?

He brought about Christianity, Christianity is based on his teachings. Dude, he brought it about. He started the Church. Believe it or not. He did. History shows he did, not just some supposed angel that appeared to a man. Another angel appeared to Joseph Smith too and gave him Gospels. This occurred after Muhaaamad. Why did the angel give Joseph Gospels supporting Christ? WHy not give Gospels supporting Muhaaamad and Islam? Or is God conflicting? My God is not conflicting, he is not the author of confusion o.

Don't get me started on Islam. I will have you contradicting yourself in your answers o.

I asked this question before, but couldn't find the thread again: Who was the covenant with, Ishmeal the father of Arabs or Isaac the father of Isrealites.

Did Jesus die on the cross and rose again? or did he not? and did he say he would die and rise again? or did he not?



lol Frizzy, Imhotep is not dodging, he is mocking you.

Go and do more research on Iraneus. Make sure you go to authentic Catholic sites, we do well in keeping our history. Yoou will then know the truth about Iraneus' writings.

I will join Imhotep and ask you to remind me to tell the fairy tales to my children also.

lol Frizzy, Imhotep is not dodging, he is mocking you.

Go and do more research on Iraneus. Make sure you go to authentic Catholic sites, we do well in keeping our history. Yoou will then know the truth about Iraneus' writings

I will join Imhotep and ask you to remind me to tell the fairy tales to my children also.

We mock even as you mock. But at the end, you will know who speaks truth from falsehood. Stop worshipping Jesus but turn your face to Who created you- All'ah.

All'ah didn't create me. He and his daughters have nothing to do with me.

God created me, get it. I worship him. Christ is God.

May the Holy Spirit bring you to know the truth. May he reveal himself to you, and may you recognise him and have the capacity to understand the truth.

You want me to become a Musslim? Sorry dear, I won't follow a religion that contradicts itself.
Answer my questions above.

Who was the covenant with? and Did Christ say he will die?

~Lady~:

All'ah didn't create me. He and his daughters have nothing to do with me.

Surely He did but you deny Him. God said: O mankind, worship your Lord Who created you and those before you that ye may ward off evil. (Baqarah)
Another says: And to All'ah belong whatsoever in the heaven and the earth, He knows what ascendeth and descendeth, not an atom weight or less than that but it is in a clear record.

God created me, get it. I worship him. Christ is God.

God said: They surely disbelieve who say: Jesus son of Mary is God. The Messiah was no one than a Messenger, Messengers like those who passed away before him. They both (Jesus&mary) used to eat earthly food and his mother a saintly woman. See how We show them Our signs, but see how they turn away!

Another says: If We were to destory Jesus and his mother, can anyone save them from Our grip?

May the Holy Spirit bring you to know the truth. May he reveal himself to you, and may you recognise him and have the capacity to understand the truth.

The understanding you folk have is not the belief God wants you to have for Him, the earlier you repent and turn to Him the better.

You want me to become a Musslim? Sorry dear, I won't follow a religion that contradicts itself.
Answer my questions above.

I will be happy if you become a Mu'slim, I can even decide to marry you or your daughers.lol . But Islam never contradicts,except you don't understand the religion.

Who was the covenant with? and Did Christ say he will die?

The Ko'ran clearly points that the covenant between Abraham and God was Ishmeal. They are lots of evidences from the Ko'ran. And the Gospel of barnabas points out Christ saying that the rabbis changed the context. As cliamed by God Himself in the Ko'ran.

Christ said they will try and kill him, God said he will protect him and the plots of the evil-doers will not be successful.(Both in the Ko'ran and this beautiful Gospel.

@Frizy
You have an interesting collection of 'Tales by moonlight'.

Frizy:

To Those who need to Know

How The Gospel of Barnabas Survived.

Barnabas is also mentioned in the Stichometry of Nicephorus Serial No. 3, Epistle of Barnabas . . . Lines 1, 300.

Serial No. 18. Epistle of Barnabas.
Serial No. 24. Gospel According to Barnabas.
A Greek version of the Gospel of Barnabas is also found in a solitary fragment. The rest is burnt.

Someone is either ignorantly or DELIBERATELY trying to confuse the fraudulent "gospel of barnabas" with the ORIGINAL "epistle of Barnabas". I have pointed out on this thread with links that both are completely two different things. It is the Epistle of Barnabas that has preserved greek versions and not the gospel of barnabas as Frizy wilfully and dishonestly wants those who wont bother to do a thorough search to believe.

The EARLIEST versions of the gospel of barnabas are written in Italian . . . NOT GREEK.

imhotep:

@Frizy
You have an interesting collection of 'Tales by moonlight'.

**no comments**

Frizy:

**no comments**

i'd have been surprised if you had any. Any more falsehoods to plagiarise from your fraudulent mentors?

[quoteBut The Great Religion never contradicts,except you don't understand the religion.
]

[/quote]

Read below

[quote]The Ko'ran clearly points that the covenant between Abraham and God was Ishmeal. They are lots of evidences from the Ko'ran. And the Gospel of barnabas points out Christ saying that the rabbis changed the context. As cliamed by God Himself in the Ko'ran.

Christ said they will try and kill him, God said he will protect him and the plots of the evil-doers will not be successful.(Both in the Ko'ran and this beautiful Gospel

So why then was it pointed out repeatedly that the covenant was with the Children of Isreal.

Surah 2:41
O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me, I will fulfil My covenant with you, and Me alone should you fear.

Surah 2:48
2:48] O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples of the time

Answer my next questions.

If the covenant was with Ishmeal, why are the Prophets from Isaac's bloodline?
So God would make a promise to Frizy, but give it to Olabowale?

Did Jesus say that he would die and rise again?

@~Lady~: Listen to the tone of the Qu.r'a.n about the Children of Israel.

Surah 2:41
O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me, I will fulfil My covenant with you, and Me alone should you fear.

Surah 2:48
2:48] O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples of the time

The tone is past tense. They were bestowed a favor, a covenant under th bigger covenant which was earlier with Ibrahim. The favor and covenant with them had conditions for the fulfillment and the continuity. Read it again. And when Prophet Mu.ha.mmad came to th stage of prophethood, you will realize that he was honest to remind his "Cousins," the Jews thefavor of God on them in the time past.

Now that they are not exclusively the holder of the favor to propagate the Oneness of God to Mankind, they were yet, again required to come to the fold of the the new bringer of the good stewardship, under the New Leader, M.uh.ammad! They were still children of Ibrahim regardless of the power shift to the new leadership, who is a child of Ibrahim from a different branch!

The favor and covenant did not come excluding the original relationship with Ibrahim. Afterall, th sign of the covenant is circumcision of males. The sign does not neccesarily means that one fulfills the essense of the covenant. Even today they circumcise their males, yet even in the time of Jesus, they refused to accept him. Your point is not good enough.

Finally, when you quote the truth to justify a cnotinum of favor and covenant with the Israelite, you should read the Qu.r'a.n to see that God terminates the "ethnic" based favor, as Isl.a.m became a complete religion that is Universally commanded upon all, and th rejection of all other ways, religions, etc.

Answer my next questions.

If the covenant was with Ishmeal, why are the Prophets from Isaac's bloodline?
So God would make a promise to Frizy, but give it to Olabowale?

No m.u.slim ever said the covenant was with Ismail. God's covenant(s) is with Ibrahim. It cover his children; all of them the first and at some time the only child, even though he was from the second wife. It also covered the second child, even though he was from the older wife. It also covered other children from other wife or wives. A child never ceases to be the child of the father, even when he casually disowns him. The wife of the father or the other brothers are not in the position to dictate the bloodline of a child with his father. It just does not work that way.

Did Jesus say that he would die and rise again?

I don't know what Jesus said, since we have conflicting statements from him ad those who put words in his mouth after he was raised up. You see that no one from the early christians said that Jesus told him to erase from the Bible that he was just a man, a prophet, a messiah to the house of Israel, only. If Jesus is more than what the M.us.lims said that he is, the proof of it would have been erase from the Bible, even before Muhamm.ad got the revelations.

It is not possible that Jesus would contradict himself: Saying one thing will alive and saying the other to human being afterwards from heaven. In heaven, where no one could see him. It will be hard press for anyone to believe that he now change his story. He had three years of gospel preaching of the kingdom of heaven to tell people about his true position. What he said then was the truth; The ones that contradict what was Paul and company's after thought.

The tone is past tense. They were bestowed a favor, a covenant under th bigger covenant which was earlier with Ibrahim. The favor and covenant with them had conditions for the fulfillment and the continuity. Read it again. And when Prophet Mu.ha.mmad came to th stage of prophethood, you will realize that he was honest to remind his "Cousins," the Jews thefavor of God on them in the time past.

Forgive me but I actually thought the covenant was made in Abraham's day and not Muhaaamad. Wouldn't that make it the past?

Now that they are not exclusively the holder of the favor to propagate the Oneness of God to Mankind, they were yet, again required to come to the fold of the the new bringer of the good stewardship, under the New Leader, M.uh.ammad! They were still children of Ibrahim regardless of the power shift to the new leadership, who is a child of Ibrahim from a different branch

Then show me the favour bestowed upon the Arabs. Because the Qu'ran speaks of those of the Children of Isrealites.

The favor and covenant did not come excluding the original relationship with Ibrahim. Afterall, th sign of the covenant is circumcision of males. The sign does not neccesarily means that one fulfills the essense of the covenant. Even today they circumcise their males, yet even in the time of Jesus, they refused to accept him. Your point is not good enough

The sign of the convenant is circumcision of Isrealite males. There were Gentile males or other males in the world that were not circumcised. Actually it does. If God asks me to worship him by bowing to him, and I do bow, then that means I worship him. Bowing here is the sign and worship is the covenant. They refused to accept Jesus because they did not understand Jesus, just as you do not. Jesus called himself the messiah and they were expecting the messiah to come on a chariot and rain fire and brimstone on the heads of the Romans. They expected a "worldly" champion, instead they received a champion of God. So they refused him because he didn't meet their expectations.
The circumcision doesn't show that they should accept Jesus. The circumcision was to show their devotion to God. Not to the "prophets" (for the sake of this discussion, Jesus will be a "prophet" So them refusing Jesus doesn't mean they refuse to show their devotion. They circumcised even in the day of Moses, but weren't completely accepting of him. Aaron and his wife challenged Moses too.

Finally, when you quote the truth to justify a cnotinum of favor and covenant with the Israelite, you should read the Qu.r'a.n to see that God terminates the "ethnic" based favor, as Isl.a.m became a complete religion that is Universally commanded upon all, and th rejection of all other ways, religions, etc.

Sorry that is where Christianity comes in. But you're trying to prove to me that the covenant was with the Arabs and not the Isrealites. So continue with it and stop bringing the spread of Is'lam into it.

No m.u.slim ever said the covenant was with Ismail. God's covenant(s) is with Ibrahim. It cover his children; all of them the first and at some time the only child, even though he was from the second wife. It also covered the second child, even though he was from the older wife. It also covered other children from other wife or wives. A child never ceases to be the child of the father, even when he casually disowns him. The wife of the father or the other brothers are not in the position to dictate the bloodline of a child with his father. It just does not work that way.

Don't make me bring up the topic.

The covenant was made with Abraham but was fulfilled through whom? Because I know muuuslims who want to fight with me for saying that the covenenat was brought to fruition with the Isrealite children (Isaac's).

I don't know what Jesus said, since we have conflicting statements from him ad those who put words in his mouth after he was raised up

Surah 19:28 Then she brought him to her people, mounted. They said, 'O Mary, surely, thou hast committed a monstrous thing!
Surah 19 :29 'O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!'
Surah 19: 30 Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?'
Surah 19:31 Jesus said, 'I am a servant of God. He has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;
Surah 19:32 'And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live
Surah 19:33 'And He has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless;
Surah 19:34 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.'
Surah 19:35 That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt

You see that no one from the early christians said that Jesus told him to erase from the Bible that he was just a man, a prophet, a messiah to the house of Israel, only. If Jesus is more than what the M.us.lims said that he is, the proof of it would have been erase from the Bible, even before Muhamm.ad got the revelations

Why would the proof be erased from the Bible when the Bible came about before Muhaaamad? The Bible is not a lie.

It is not possible that Jesus would contradict himself: Saying one thing will alive and saying the other to human being afterwards from heaven.

Now do you see why Christians do not believe what the Qu'ran says. Christ won't contradict himself. So we don't believe that Christ or an angel appeared to Muhaamad. By the way I thought it was God speaking in the Qu'ran and not Jesus (the prophet).

He had three years of gospel preaching of the kingdom of heaven to tell people about his true position. What he said then was the truth; The ones that contradict what was Paul and company's after thought.

The story wsa not changed dear. If you read it you will see it is the same. What about those that were before Paul that proclaimed the same thing? What about those that walked with him as his disciples and he spoke these words to them everyday and they proclaim him the messiah and procliamed him the Son of God and proclaimed that he and God are one?
Should we now believe a man who appeared centuries later claiming he got a revelation from God about a man over those who lived with the man?


May I ask, how did Mary the mother of Jesus, become the sister of Aaron?

So now you stylishly agree that Ibrahim as you call him got the covenant with the Jews?

What happened to the story that Issac was the son of Hagar and Ishmael the legitimate child?

How come the Mus-lims have no accounts of the life of Moses, Noah, Abraham and co except from the historical records kept and maintained by the jews, only to have one Quaraish Mohammadu to come re-mix the entire story and put a 'mus-lim' spin on it?

debosky:

How come the Mus-lims have no accounts of the life of Moses, Noah, Abraham and co except from the historical records kept and maintained by the jews, only to have one Quaraish Mohammadu to come re-mix the entire story and put a 'mus-lim' spin on it?

The mu'slims don't even have a historical account of the life of ishmael, all we know today comes from biblical accounts and historical jewish records. So much for Ishmael being al'lah's child of promise.

olabowale:

@~Lady~: Listen to the tone of the Qu.r'a.n about the Children of Israel.

The tone is past tense. They were bestowed a favor, a covenant under th bigger covenant which was earlier with Ibrahim. The favor and covenant with them had conditions for the fulfillment and the continuity. Read it again. And when Prophet Mu.ha.mmad came to th stage of prophethood, you will realize that he was honest to remind his "Cousins," the Jews thefavor of God on them in the time past.

Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Unless the term "everlasting" has lost its meaning, there is no way God's covenant with the jews (the seed of Isaac) is past tense.

debosky:

Finally, when you quote the truth to justify a cnotinum of favor and covenant with the Israelite, you should read the Qu.r'a.n to see that God terminates the "ethnic" based favor, as Isl.a.m became a complete religion that is Universally commanded upon all, and th rejection of all other ways, religions, etc.

1. The above is premised on the assumption that we are even talking about one and the same God. The truth is we are not. One is God Almighty, the other is the imposter who hath been cast out of heaven from the begining so whatever the qu'ran says is of no consequence.

2. Is'lam a "complete" religion and yet the qu'ran can only be read in arabic? Prayers must be in arabic, prayers must be made towards mecca, women must dress like ancient arabs, God's great law law (a 14th century relic) is the law we must abide by in 2008 . . . so much for a universal law.

3. A religion propagated by the force of the sword and perpetuated through death and violence is not what i want to be a part of.

debosky:

No m.u.slim ever said the covenant was with Ismail. God's covenant(s) is with Ibrahim. It cover his children; all of them the first and at some time the only child, even though he was from the second wife. It also covered the second child, even though he was from the older wife. It also covered other children from other wife or wives. A child never ceases to be the child of the father, even when he casually disowns him.

Again you are trying to befuddle yourself. God was VERY SPECIFIC when he made the covenant with Abraham . . . It was not just a general covenant, He specifically mentioned the terms of the covenant and to whom it would apply. Please read Genesis 17 thoroughly.

@~Lady~[Quote]
Forgive me but I actually thought the covenant was made in Abraham's day and not Muhaaamad. Wouldn't that make it the past?
[/quote]

I thought the tone is pretty clear? God is reminding them that under the benefit of the Primary covenant with Ibrahim, they were favored. Now the covenant is still on going as the final leadership is now a new prophet, their cousin. They should come into the fold and enjoy the favor, instead of spiritually off the track. Afterall, God who took idolatry from Makka is merciful enough to still over all people, and especially the other branch of Ibrahim's bloodline to come back to the fold of mercy.

They should be the ones who should be the first on the lead that lead to the worldwide means of mercy, under the leadership of M.u.hammad.

[Quote]
Then show me the favour bestowed upon the Arabs. Because the Qu'ran speaks of those of the Children of Isrealites.
[/quote]

The biggest of favors is I.sl.am. Others may include the relative ease that wealth comes to them. Let me amuse you; The Jews of the world always say about the journey of Prophet Moses, that if only he has traveled a little further east or so, he ould have brought them to the lands under the arabs now. A land rich with Oil that the whole world can do without. Don't take my world for it, ask an American Jew. That should be easy for you.

The door of Is.l.am, a meabns of Mercy from God is wide open.

[Quote]
The sign of the convenant is circumcision of Isrealite males. There were Gentile males or other males in the world that were not circumcised. Actually it does. If God asks me to worship him by bowing to him, and I do bow, then that means I worship him. Bowing here is the sign and worship is the covenant. They refused to accept Jesus because they did not understand Jesus, just as you do not. Jesus called himself the messiah and they were expecting the messiah to come on a chariot and rain fire and brimstone on the heads of the Romans. They expected a "worldly" champion, instead they received a champion of God. So they refused him because he didn't meet their expectations.
The circumcision doesn't show that they should accept Jesus. The circumcision was to show their devotion to God. Not to the "prophets" (for the sake of this discussion, Jesus will be a "prophet" So them refusing Jesus doesn't mean they refuse to show their devotion. They circumcised even in the day of Moses, but weren't completely accepting of him. Aaron and his wife challenged Moses too.
[/quote]

All you put up is very interesting. Moses, with all the wonderful works through him, he never claimed that he was the one working the process. He did not arrive to them as a liberator on Chariot either, rather as a refugee. And finally, i understand Jesus. But not the way that you understand him. And Arabs, never at one time never stop the rite of male circumcision. All m.u.sl.im born are circumcised.Its interesting that you forgot, unless that younever read it that Ismail was circumcised along with his father, Ibrahim. And all of this was before Isiaq was ever born. I guess we know who the sign of the covenant was and who the only son could ever be applied to.

You should know as a first child. Can any of your younger siblings be called the only child?

[Quote]
Sorry that is where Christianity comes in. But you're trying to prove to me that the covenant was with the Arabs and not the Isrealites. So continue with it and stop bringing the spread of Is'lam into it.
[/quote]

Never have I said that the arabs are exclusive on the covenant, against the other branches of the Children of Ibrahim. Rather, it is the Jews and the Christians who excluded the Arabs and called "Innocent Ismail, eben from Childhood," wild! A demeaning word or expresasion upon a little child of a beloved prophet who never stopped loving him.

My dear, the story is more than the esoteric application that we are giving it, as a gloss over on Nairaland. How can the son of a wonderful prophet like Ibrahim be wild ass? Can you tell us if this child ever recorded to have done any evil? If you can not, then think whether the prophesy of such a horrible name like that fits him and very importantly was never fulfilled on him. That shows that there are prophesies that are wrong or miss the mark, in the Bible. Afterall, Ismail (as) is dead!


 
@debosky (m)

So now you stylishly agree that Ibrahim as you call him got the covenant with the Jews?  

What happened to the story that Issac was the son of Hagar and Ishmael the legitimate child?

How come the Mus-lims have no accounts of the life of Moses, Noah, Abraham and co except from the historical records kept and maintained by the jews, only to have one Quaraish Mohammadu to come re-mix the entire story and put a 'mus-lim' spin on it?

In the words of illustrous Ijebu Ode son, David, I will like to ask you what is it that you are talking about? You are completely off course, and what you are saying is not in line with anything any M.us.lim have said here, or ever believed.

olabowale:

The biggest of favors is I.sl.am.

Isnt that an irony? With the exception of corrupt little fiefdorms like Dubai virtually EVERY OTHER ARAB/MU'SLIM nation is wallowing in the throes of poverty and an endless cycle of violence. Lebanon once was the pride of the arab world when it was majority christian, today it is the cesspool of hezbollah.

Israel is a tiny strip of 7.2m citizens, it is more powerful and has produced more nobel laureates since 1948 than ALL arab states put together.

Yeah, the biggest favour is is'lam. No wonder we now have to do without our shampoos on aircraft.

[quoteI thought the tone is pretty clear? God is reminding them that under the benefit of the Primary covenant with Ibrahim, they were favored. Now the covenant is still on going as the final leadership is now a new prophet, their cousin. They should come into the fold and enjoy the favor, instead of spiritually off the track. Afterall, God who took idolatry from Makka is merciful enough to still over all people, and especially the other branch of Ibrahim's bloodline to come back to the fold of mercy.

They should be the ones who should be the first on the lead that lead to the worldwide means of mercy, under the leadership of M.u.hammad.]

[/quote]

The tone is clear and it only proves that the Isrealites are the ones the covenant was with not the Arabs. So your interpretation of it, baffles me. Ok tell me the covenant that God had with the Arabs, since the "other" covenant has been with the Isrealites and now the Isrealites are to be allowed into the fold.
If they were spiritually offtrack, what were the Arabs, on track? I thought Muhaamad was dissatisfied with the way his people were and that's why he secluded himself.

You still haven't answered my question. Why are the Is'lamic Prophets Isrealites?

[quote]The biggest of favors is I.sl.am. Others may include the relative ease that wealth comes to them. Let me amuse you; The Jews of the world always say about the journey of Prophet Moses, that if only he has traveled a little further east or so, he ould have brought them to the lands under the arabs now. A land rich with Oil that the whole world can do without. Don't take my world for it, ask an American Jew. That should be easy for you.

The door of Is.l.am, a meabns of Mercy from God is wide open.

Or maybe if they traveled to the land where Nigeria is now, they would be rich in oil too. The Islamic Nigerians are in the North, the Christian Nigeirans are in the south, south east. The oil is in the South, South-east. Not a favour of Islam. So try again.

All you put up is very interesting. Moses, with all the wonderful works through him, he never claimed that he was the one working the process. He did not arrive to them as a liberator on Chariot either, rather as a refugee.

Where did I say that Moses was the one working the process?
Or that he arrived on a Chariot. The Jews were and are expecting someone who will be a king on this earth. Christ told them no. That the Kingdom is of heaven. They expected liberation from the Romans on this earth, not in heaven. That is my point. They were looking for the here and the now and not at eternity.
Moses spoke of the coming of the messiah, clearly Moses couldn't have been the messiah, Moses exalted the messiah. Why would Moses exault someone who is his equal?
Why does the Qu'ran call Christ the Messiah and ot acknowledge him as the Messiah, does it know what Messiah mean?

And Arabs, never at one time never stop the rite of male circumcision. All m.u.sl.im born are circumcised.Its interesting that you forgot, unless that younever read it that Ismail was circumcised along with his father, Ibrahim

And so what if they were circumcised, does it mean that the covenant was with Ishmeal? ALL WERE TO BE CIRCUMCISED. My brother is circumcised, did the covenant begin with him?
Were Arabs circumcised before Islaaam came to be in the time of Muhaaamad? Was Muhaaamad circumcised?

You should know as a first child. Can any of your younger siblings be called the only child?

No one says Ishmael isn't the Child of Abraham.

Never have I said that the arabs are exclusive on the covenant, against the other branches of the Children of Ibrahim. Rather, it is the Jews and the Christians who excluded the Arabs and called "Innocent Ismail, eben from Childhood," wild! A demeaning word or expresasion upon a little child of a beloved prophet who never stopped loving him.

Where did we say that he is wild?
He can be wild and still be loved by his father.

I thought Ishmeal grew into a man. Now he's a poor child.

My dear, the story is more than the esoteric application that we are giving it, as a gloss over on Nairaland. How can the son of a wonderful prophet like Ibrahim be wild ass?

How can Cain kill his own brother Abel. Isn't he the son of Adam?
My dear just because my mother is a saint, doesn't mean that I am.

Just because Ishmeal was Abraham's son, doesn't mean that he could have done no wrong.

Can you tell us if this child ever recorded to have done any evil? If you can not, then think whether the prophesy of such a horrible name like that fits him and very importantly was never fulfilled on him

What are you ranting on about? There's no recording of me being bad, does that mean that I am not? Was Abraham always good. When he was a kid did he not do evil?

I hope you know that Ishmael means God listens in Hebrew. What's so bad about that name?

Who said Ishmael is bad?

That shows that there are prophesies that are wrong or miss the mark, in the Bible. Afterall, Ismail (as) is dead!

Who said Ishmael's alive?

Ok now I'm worried about you. You're ranting now o.

@Davidylan: What are you talking about Wiilies?

Isnt that an irony? With the exception of corrupt little fiefdorms like Dubai virtually EVERY OTHER ARAB/MU'SLIM nation is wallowing in the throes of poverty and an endless cycle of violence. Lebanon once was the pride of the arab world when it was majority christian, today it is the cesspool of hezbollah.

I wonder if every corrupt, backwater society is I.s.lamic? I wonder what happens to the African, Latin America and other poor countries of the world which are Christians? Are they having the Isla.mic fever or symptoms? David, come off it.

Israel is a tiny strip of 7.2m citizens, it is more powerful and has produced more nobel laureates since 1948 than ALL arab states put together.

And your point? You forgot Nigeria and a host of countries when you are mking this weak argument? (David; Are you Okay?).

Yeah, the biggest favour is is'lam. No wonder we now have to do without our shampoos on aircraft.

Shave your head sometimes. I do. And people are still waiting for the wreckage of what hit the Pentagon, in Washington, D. C.


@~Lady~ (f)

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The tone is clear and it only proves that the Isrealites are the ones the covenant was with not the Arabs. So your interpretation of it, baffles me. Ok tell me the covenant that God had with the Arabs, since the "other" covenant has been with the Isrealites and now the Isrealites are to be allowed into the fold.
If they were spiritually offtrack, what were the Arabs, on track? I thought Muhaamad was dissatisfied with the way his people were and that's why he secluded himself.
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Are you reading the same material am reading? Okay lets see a good example here. If I told my corporate manager to tell a former employee to remember how much he used to enjoy working my organization. And the reason that I want him to know is that it is a public knowledge that his current job is not paying enough. And we at the same time opening new offices in his neighborhood.

What is happening is that he is not working for us, yet but because of his experience with us, we know that he will be better with us, away from his dead end job. The

The case of the Children of Israel is the same. They do not have any special and separate and exclusive "convenant," separate from what God has with Ibrahim. Iwant you to know that the first physical sign of the Covenant is circumcision. I am just using your Bible to kill your argument. And Ismail was the son who was circumcised, log before Isiaq.

And from the Qu/r'an, we see that Ibrahim ask God to make all prophets that will come after him be from his loin. These prophets and his children to be people who are people of paradise, successful, prayerful. God accept his prayer and said that whoever from his bloodlines who worship anything apart from Him, that person will not be counted amount the successful.

We see that no prophet came after Ibrahim, that was not from his family. And many came from from Isiaq, and ended up with Jesus. Then the only one that come after Jesus, was the only one that came from Ibrahim's line of Ismail Children i Mu.ha.mmad.

Muha.mmad said that the prayer that Ibrahim made, A.l.lah sealed that prayer with him. He also said that he was like the building block in a building that is built so beautifully, but lacks that essential final block!

M.u.h.ammad has been known as the son of the two slaughtered. y darling we will talk about this, sometimes in th future.

You still haven't answered my question. Why are the Is'lamic Prophets Isrealites?

Prophets are from God. And God's ordained religion is I.s.lam. Ethnicity was not at play, so the prophets are Is.la.mic prophets not Israelites prophets. No one will go to Paradise or hellfire because of tribe. But people will go to paradise or hellfire because of religion.

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Or maybe if they traveled to the land where Nigeria is now, they would be rich in oil too. The Great Religious Nigerians are in the North, the Christian Nigeirans are in the south, south east. The oil is in the South, South-east. Not a favour of The Great Religion. So try again.
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By A.l.lah, they did not. And Ijebu Ode, Ibadan, Abekuta, and many others, icludin Lagos, ikorodu and Even Aghor, are all in the south, south. They are all M.u.sli.m towns and cities. I only give you a snippet of even what the future may holds. You are Bini woman. And surprise Isl'am is in Bini, etc. Isl.am is in the east now. I can see you becoming M.u.s.lim woman, easily. You can't fight it, if God has counted you for you.

Finally, today, oil is now being discoverd in the West and many other places. Gold is in Kwara an so is iron ore. What about coal and others. I only use oil because it is something tht many could relate to. But what is interesting is that you can not even point to one thing that is natural resources/riches that is in the land that Israelites controlled for 4000 years, if I mockingly quote David. (David and I are friends, so people should not read any meaning to it, more that what is obvious. To use the christian cliche: No interpretation).


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Where did I say that Moses was the one working the process?
Or that he arrived on a Chariot. The Jews were and are expecting someone who will be a king on this earth. Christ told them no. That the Kingdom is of heaven. They expected liberation from the Romans on this earth, not in heaven. That is my point. They were looking for the here and the now and not at eternity.
Moses spoke of the coming of the messiah, clearly Moses couldn't have been the messiah, Moses exalted the messiah. Why would Moses exault someone who is his equal?
Why does the Qu'ran call Christ the Messiah and ot acknowledge him as the Messiah, does it know what Messiah mean?
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Don't for get that you said that the Children of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, because they thought or they were expecting a Messiah on a chariot. I only use Moses to say that with all the miracles that he performed, he never came to them as a warrior. But Jesus came just in the same way that all the prophets before him came to their nations. Come to think of it Moses was rejected before he was accepted. Jesus was accepted by few, except that the majority rejected him. And he came in the same meek way and needing support and followers like every prophet before him.

You are stomping me with this messiah thing too much. Now why would M.uha.mmad called jesus massiah to the Children if he was more than just that? Why would he acknowledge his massiahship, if his intention was to deny it in the first place? Definitely, you and me can not know God more than His ordained prophets and messengers. If Jesus did not exhibit the signs of messengership, he would not have gotten a single follower and Is.l.am would never have acknowledged his messengership. In the same breath M.uha.nnad exhibited prophrtic signs. It is this reason that Christians and Jews who knew the signs converted and became his followers while he was alive. Your argument is not very strong here. You can't clam that there is no more floor above, just because you stop and got off the elevator before it reached the last floor. Jesus was not the seal/last of the prophets and messengers of god to carry the orders of god to mankind. Muh.ammad was.

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And so what if they were circumcised, does it mean that the covenant was with Ishmeal? ALL WERE TO BE CIRCUMCISED. My brother is circumcised, did the covenant begin with him?
Were Arabs circumcised before Islaaam came to be in the time of Muhaaamad? Was Muhaaamad circumcised?
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Apart from the question about your brother and your being hard nosed about ismail and isiaq, two sibling who are only from the one who had the primary covenant/relationship with God, the answer to each is yes. And neither Ismail or Isiaq is involved in any covenent with God, except what was Ibrahim, under which they were covered and benefitted.

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No one says Ishmael isn't the Child of Abraham.
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So why is it difficult to know that the first child is the one ever qualified to be called the only child, up to until his fisrt younger sibling is born.

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Where did we say that he is wild?
He can be wild and still be loved by his father.
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You need to read the Bible. And it was your Biblical Angel who said that Ismail will be wild. Not his descendants, but him. And we see that the Biblical Angel missed tge mark, again.

I thought Ishmeal grew into a man. Now he's a poor child.

I guess no one born of a woman started out as a full grown man, but always as a child. Funny that you did not connect that i was aluding to the fact that the rejection as a wild person was made about him, when he was just a very small child. How best should I express it.

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How can Cain kill his own brother Abel. Isn't he the son of Adam?
My dear just because my mother is a saint, doesn't mean that I am.
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I hear you. Cain did not kill Abel when they wer both children. A little child can not be labelled as bad, unless he exhibits the traces. Otherwise the label is completely unjustifiable. So tell me what this child who is label wild from infancy, tell me one wild thing he did? Afterall, it seems that the Bible followed his life, since there is a record of his bloodlines. What did he do that can qualify him as a wild person? If the label does not fit thereof, you must acquit.

Just because Ishmeal was Abraham's son, doesn't mean that he could have done no wrong.

Tell me a single wrong that he did. Even Jacob, one can point to a wrong that he did. Use your Bble and I will use your Bible.

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What are you ranting on about? There's no recording of me being bad, does that mean that I am not? Was Abraham always good. When he was a kid did he not do evil?

I hope you know that Ishmael means God listens in Hebrew. What's so bad about that name?

Who said Ishmael is bad?
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Can you list any of them? lol.


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Who said Ishmael's alive?
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Am simply telling you that the statement about him being a wild person, never came true while he was alive. For sure, now that he is dead, it will never come to pass that he behaved as a wild person, even for a momet. You know what i mean.

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Ok now I'm worried about you. You're ranting now o.
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Don't worry about me, since you did not show me you cared anyhow. Lol. But am okay, regardless of the allergy from the pollens. I doubt if you understand the significance of unfulfilled prophesies. One in a holy book is one too many.