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The Miracle At 60 - Isreal - Politics - Nairaland

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The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 5:25pm On May 20, 2008
The article below is culled from the Washington Post. The author is Charles Krauthammer. I will provide the link but I think you will need to register with them to view it.

Before sending Lewis and Clark west, Thomas Jefferson dispatched Meriwether Lewis to Philadelphia to see Benjamin Rush. The eminent doctor prepared a series of scientific questions for the expedition to answer. Among them, writes Stephen Ambrose: "What Affinity between their [the Indians'] religious Ceremonies & those of the Jews?" Jefferson and Lewis, like many of their day and ours, were fascinated by the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel and thought they might be out there on the Great Plains.

They weren't. They aren't anywhere. Their disappearance into the mists of history since their exile from Israel in 722 B.C. is no mystery. It is the norm, the rule for every ancient people defeated, destroyed, scattered and exiled.

With one exception, a miraculous story of redemption and return, after not a century or two, but 2,000 years. Remarkably, that miracle occurred in our time. This week marks its 60th anniversary: the return and restoration of the remaining two tribes of Israel -- Judah and Benjamin, later known as the Jews -- to their ancient homeland.

Besides restoring Jewish sovereignty, the establishment of the State of Israel embodied many subsidiary miracles, from the creation of the first Jewish army since Roman times to the only recorded instance of the resurrection of a dead language -- Hebrew, now the daily tongue of a vibrant nation of 7 million. As historian Barbara Tuchman once wrote, Israel is "the only nation in the world that is governing itself in the same territory, under the same name, and with the same religion and same language as it did 3,000 years ago."

During its early years, Israel was often spoken of in such romantic terms. Today, such talk is considered naive, anachronistic, even insensitive, nothing more than Zionist myth designed to hide the true story, i.e., the Palestinian narrative of dispossession.

Not so. Palestinian suffering is, of course, real and heart-wrenching, but what the Arab narrative deliberately distorts is the cause of its own tragedy: the folly of its own fanatical leadership -- from Haj Amin al-Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem (Nazi collaborator, who spent World War II in Berlin), to Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser to Yasser Arafat to Hamas of today -- that repeatedly chose war rather than compromise and conciliation.

Palestinian dispossession is a direct result of the Arab rejection, then and now, of a Jewish state of any size on any part of the vast lands the Arabs claim as their exclusive patrimony. That was the cause of the war 60 years ago that, in turn, caused the refugee problem. And it remains the cause of war today.

Six months before Israel's birth, the United Nations had decided by a two-thirds majority that the only just solution to the British departure from Palestine would be the establishment of a Jewish state and an Arab state side by side. The undeniable fact remains: The Jews accepted that compromise; the Arabs rejected it.

With a vengeance. On the day the British pulled down their flag, Israel was invaded by Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan and Iraq -- 650,000 Jews against 40 million Arabs.

Israel prevailed, another miracle. But at a very high cost -- not just to the Palestinians displaced as a result of a war designed to extinguish Israel at birth, but also to the Israelis, whose war losses were staggering: 6,373 dead. One percent of the population. In American terms, it would take 35 Vietnam memorials to encompass such a monumental loss of life.

You rarely hear about Israel's terrible suffering in that 1948-49 war. You hear only the Palestinian side. Today, in the same vein, you hear that Israeli settlements and checkpoints and occupation are the continuing root causes of terrorism and instability in the region.

But in 1948, there were no "occupied territories." Nor in 1967 when Egypt, Syria and Jordan joined together in a second war of annihilation against Israel.

Look at Gaza today. No Israeli occupation, no settlements, not a single Jew left. The Palestinian response? Unremitting rocket fire killing and maiming Israeli civilians. The declared casus belli of the Palestinian government in Gaza behind these rockets? The very existence of a Jewish state.

One constantly hears about the disabling complexity of the Arab-Israeli dispute. Complex it is, but the root cause is not. Israel's crime is not its policies but its insistence on living. On the day the Arabs -- and the Palestinians in particular -- make a collective decision to accept the Jewish state, there will be peace, as Israel proved with its treaties with Egypt and Jordan. Until that day, there will be nothing but war. And every "peace process," however cynical or well meaning, will come to nothing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/15/AR2008051503577.html?sub=new

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Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Tornadoz(m): 12:16pm On May 21, 2008
Sickening to read American media's blatant cheer leading of racist Israel's 60th birthday party. Since the creation of the Jewish state, the middle east has known nothing but war.
The only people happy at Israel's 60th birthday are the Jews and Americans. No European, African or Asian president attended Israel's birthday party except America's, does this not tell us something?
For 60yrs the world has been kissing Jewish asses for what Hitler did to them, when is this guilt going to end. I don't subscribe to this notion but most people now think Hitler was right in dealing with the Jews. If Hitler had succeeded we won't have the problem we now have. The Jews are lepers to any society they live in. Even God scattered the Jews knowing these people can be evil.
As decent people we should not be saying happy birthday to this killers rather we should wipe our asses with the Jewish flag.
Anyway I don't hate Jews or Americans but have a rabid hatred for the assholes that rule both countries.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Blatant: 2:07pm On May 21, 2008
Tornadoz:

Sickening to read American media's blatant cheer leading of racist Israel's 60th birthday party. Since the creation of the Jewish state, the middle east has known nothing but war.
The only people happy at Israel's 60th birthday are the Jews and Americans. No European, African or Asian president attended Israel's birthday party except America's, does this not tell us something?
For 60yrs the world has been kissing Jewish asses for what Hitler did to them, when is this guilt going to end. I don't subscribe to this notion but most people now think Hitler was right in dealing with the Jews. If Hitler had succeeded we won't have the problem we now have. The Jews are lepers to any society they live in. Even God scattered the Jews knowing these people can be evil.
As decent people we should not be saying happy birthday to this killers rather we should wipe our asses with the Jewish flag.
Anyway I don't hate Jews or Americans but have a rabid hatred for the assholes that rule both countries.

he he he

Europeans have a sympathy for Palestine because they see and hear what the American media will not tell their people. Israel continually takes over Palestinian lands by force and they expect Palestinians to be happy because they dont have the super power support of America.

A few years ago, while Israel was publicly (on mainly American media) saying that it was returning some Palestinian lands, it was taking more land (away from public glare). Thank God for the likes of BBC who give us the other side of the story more often than not.

I also used to support Israel and America 100% till I started seeing and reading other things which are going on in that region and I realise why the Palestinians are the way they are.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 2:16pm On May 21, 2008
@Tornadoz,

Sickening to read  American media's blatant cheer leading of  racist  Israel's 60th birthday party.
Isreal racist? 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs, and they live in comfort with no discrimination against their religion or way of life. What other Arab country in the Middle East can boast of such?

Since the creation of the Jewish state, the middle east has known nothing but war.
The Middle East has never known peace since Biblical times. Besides, what role did Isreal play in the enmity that exists between the Persians, Sunnis and Shias?

The only people happy at Israel's 60th birthday are the Jews and Americans.
This Nigerian is happy about the birthday and so are millions of Christians around the world.

No European, African or Asian president attended Israel's birthday party except America's, does this not tell us something?
It tells me that the fear of the Arabs and the repercussion of their oil being withheld has cowered the world into submission. Glad to know that at least 2 nations have the backbone to stand up against them.

For 60yrs the world has been kissing Jewish asses for what Hitler did to them, when is this guilt going to end.
That is absolutely untrue. Infact, it is the other way round. How many nations will not go to war if another nation keeps bombing them everyday? Isreal continues to accomodate the barrage of rockets from Hezbollah-controlled West Bank, and they have not retaliated in full force because the world keeps restraining them. So who is controling who?

I don't subscribe to this notion but most people now think Hitler was right in dealing with the Jews
. The Jews were just his first target. He would have eventually targetted Africans. He believed in preserving the best species alive, which was no other than the blue eyed, tall Germans. He would eventually have targetted, short people, obese people etc. How some people would try to justify this act of evil is beyond my comprehension. In any case, I'm glad you do not subscribe to it.

If Hitler had succeeded we won't have the problem we now have. The Jews are lepers to any society they live in. Even God scattered the Jews knowing these people can be evil.
So the Jews are the root of the world's problems? The Jews created the hatred between the Shias and Sunnis? The Jews are responsible for the religious persecution we face in Naija? The Jews are the cause of the high gas prices? It is this same thinking and talk over the years that led to the holocaust. This reminds me of what a German General said at the Nuremberg Trials regarding how the holocaust came about. He said: "I am of the opinion that when for years, for decades, the doctrine is preached that Jews are not even human, such an outcome is inevitable." The Church and I-slam are both guilty of this. The Great Prophet referd to Jews as Pigs.

Do you know what God said about those who persecute the Jews? Zechariah 1: 14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. While God may have punished them for their sins, the nations took it too far, and they will be severely judged. I could show you what their judgment will be, but I'm careful not to make this too much of a religious thing.

As decent people we should not be saying happy birthday to this killers rather we should wipe our asses with the Jewish flag.
The UN created the nation by a majority vote. The nation was attacked by its neighbours on Day 1 and lost 10% of its population. Isreal has only defended itself since it was born and yet you call them killers? What then do you call the Mooslim-Arab neighbours? Angels?

Anyway I don't hate Jews or Americans but have a rabid hatred  for the assholes that rule both countries.
I have a hard time believeing this considering the fact that you will rather wipe your ass with the flag that represents them. I can understand you hating Bush, but Olmert? What has he done to you?

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Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by joshjosh(m): 2:23pm On May 21, 2008
On the day the Arabs -- and the Palestinians in particular -- make a collective decision to accept the Jewish state, there will be peace, as Israel proved with its treaties with Egypt and Jordan. Until that day, there will be nothing but war. And every "peace process," however cynical or well meaning, will come to nothing.

you guys seems to have missed this point in the write-up.

there are loads of tribal injustice in naija and i am not seeing outrage from other tribes about it. you guys are not jews and thank God you are not. you would not have known how to fight to get your land back from people who hate you and all you stand for. just this weekend our great auntie BBC showed a 27 mins clip of the arabs saying 60 yrs ago [b][b]they were driving the jews into the sea[/b][/b]. you guys dont know what they have been through and would never know.

hate them as much as you like they are here to stay and are blessed beyond measure

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Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 2:26pm On May 21, 2008
@Blatant,

Your response suggests you have succumbed to the Mooslim-Arab propaganda that this is about land. Did you notice this statement in the write-up:  "But in 1948, there were no "occupied territories." Nor in 1967 when Egypt, Syria and Jordan joined together in a second war of annihilation against Israel. Look at Gaza today. No Israeli occupation, no settlements, not a single Jew left. The Palestinian response? Unremitting rocket fire killing and maiming Israeli civilians. The declared casus belli of the Palestinian government in Gaza behind these rockets? The very existence of a Jewish state."
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Tornadoz(m): 3:28pm On May 21, 2008
@Tayo-D
Isreal racist? 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs, and they live in comfort with no discrimination against their religion or way of life. What other Arab country in the Middle East can boast of such?
The Jews that live in other Arab countries live comfortably too. There are Jews in Syria, Iran etc. Why have these Jews not emigrated to Israel?
The Middle East has never known peace since Biblical times. Besides, what role did Isreal play in the enmity that exists between the Persians, Sunnis and Shias?
There's bound to be enmity between neighbors. Check out the Tutsis and the Hutus, the Modakekes, the Kurds and Turks etc.
This Nigerian is happy about the birthday and so are millions of Christians around the world
No other country attended because Israel is a fraud state, a state created through terror.
It tells me that the fear of the Arabs and the repercussion of their oil being withheld has cowered the world into submission. Glad to know that at least 2 nations have the backbone to stand up against them.
If the Arabs withheld their oil from the rest of the world will they (Arabs) survive?

That is absolutely untrue. In fact, it is the other way round. How many nations will not go to war if another nation keeps bombing them everyday? IsreAl continues to accomodate the barrage of rockets from [b]Hezbollah-controlled West [/b]Bank, and they have not retaliated in full force because the world keeps restraining them. So who is controling who?
Theirs no nation bombing Israel. A few radical elements here throws home made bomb at Israel and Israel responds with latest American made B52's, its sickening.
Since the intifada, the ratio is 10:1 in favor of Israel. The Jewish killing machine is inferior only to the US army.

PS:
Hamas control's Gaza. Am sure you meant Fatah controls West bank. There are no known reports of rockets being fired from the west bank.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Blatant: 3:55pm On May 21, 2008
Tayo-D:

@Blatant,

Your response suggests you have succumbed to the Mooslim-Arab propaganda that this is about land. Did you notice this statement in the write-up: "But in 1948, there were no "occupied territories." Nor in 1967 when Egypt, Syria and Jordan joined together in a second war of annihilation against Israel. Look at Gaza today. No Israeli occupation, no settlements, not a single Jew left. The Palestinian response? Unremitting rocket fire killing and maiming Israeli civilians. The declared casus belli of the Palestinian government in Gaza behind these rockets? The very existence of a Jewish state."

I have not succumbed to anything. I am not saying that I know what went on in the 1940s but what I see going on now is acute injustice to the Palestinian people. THEY ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS.

As long as Israel continues grabbing land on a weekly/monthly basis, the Palestinians and their unborn generations will always feel aggrieved. How would you feel if some people were to come to your village and disperse your family to places where they have no homes and they become refugees? They will become homeless, jobless and they'll feel there's not much to live for.

If you make people feel there's not much to live for, they wont mind killing and dying.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 4:00pm On May 21, 2008
@Tornadoz,

The Jews that live in other Arab countries live comfortably too. There are Jews in Syria, Iran etc. Why have these Jews not emigrated to Israel?
What is the percentage of these to the population? How many Jews or christians live in Saudi Arabia with the rights and opportunities to worship in public as they please? But the real question is this: On what basis do you refer to the Jews as racist? Are those any different from what is evident in every society?

There's bound to be enmity between neighbors. Check out the Tutsis and the Hutus, the Modakekes, the Kurds and Turks etc.
So why did you single out the Jews as being the cause of the conflicts? The jews did not attack anybody in 1948 did they? How many times has Isreal attacked Egypt and Jordan since they recognised Isreal's right to exist? As the Writer above said "Israel's crime is not its policies but its insistence on living."

No other country attended because Israel is a fraud state,  a state created through terror.
Isreal was created by the UN. That they have no backbone to stand on the principle which they backed those years only shows their cowardice.

If the Arabs withheld their oil from the rest of the world will they (Arabs) survive?
Not as much as other nations would for that same period. Besides, they have done it before and it remains a manipulating tool in their hands today.

Theirs no nation bombing Israel. A few radical elements here throws home made bomb at Israel and Israel responds with latest American made B52's, its sickening.
No nation bombing Isreal? Are you for real? What do you want Isreal to do? Aim their own katyusha rockets back at Gaza? So if an Armed Robber attacks you with a knife, you will only attack him back with the same knife while ignoring the AK-47 you possess. The B52's help to minimise civilian casualties of their enemies by precision strikes. They could as well just send a single bomb that will annihilate those Palestinians. Its fair game in a war whose aim on one side is actually annihilation.

Since the intifada, the ratio is 10:1 in favor of Israel. The Jewish killing machine is inferior only to the US army.
This is all thanks to their hostile neighbours who want them driven to the sea.

PS:
Hamas control's Gaza. Am sure you meant Fatah controls West bank. There are no known reports of rockets being fired from the west bank.
Thanks for the correction. I meant to refer to Hamas and Gaza.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 4:09pm On May 21, 2008
@Blatant,

I have not succumbed to anything. I am not saying that I know what went on in the 1940s but what I see going on now is acute injustice to the Palestinian people. THEY ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS.

As long as Israel continues grabbing land on a weekly/monthly basis, the Palestinians and their unborn generations will always feel aggrieved. How would you feel if some people were to come to your village and disperse your family to places where they have no homes and they become refugees? They will become homeless, jobless and they'll feel there's not much to live for.

If you make people feel there's not much to live for, they wont mind killing and dying.
You cannot rightly judge this situation without a sense of history. What land has Isreal grabbed recently if I may ask? For your information, they recently gave up Gaza, and it became a launching pad for more rockets into Isreal. The lands they actually grabbed were done when Isreal was attacked. In my estimation, that is fair game. If you attack me to annihilate and take my land, it is only fair for me to do same to you while defending myself.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Kobojunkie: 5:55pm On May 21, 2008
Congrats to Israel on it's 60th year.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by darfur(m): 5:57pm On May 21, 2008
hurray israel cheesy

all ya enemies will be brought under ya feet wink
all ya friends shall be in the good books of the Lord cheesy
60yrs to the only jewish nation on earth cool

but make una sofry sofry for palestitians ohhh grin
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TLolive: 6:39pm On May 21, 2008
Isreal racist? 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs, and they live in comfort with no discrimination against their religion or way of life. What other Arab country in the Middle East can boast of such?


Do you have proof of this statement. I really want to believe you but I can't.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Kobojunkie: 6:41pm On May 21, 2008
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TLolive: 6:45pm On May 21, 2008
I know Palestinian Jews exist. I just need proove that "they live in comfort with no discrimination against their religion or way of life."
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Kobojunkie: 6:47pm On May 21, 2008
TLolive:

I know Palestinian Jews exist. I just need proove that "they live in comfort with no discrimination against their religion or way of life."

Palestinian JEWS?? You would have to ask someone who is one. I do know that Palestinian Christians deal with a lot of discrimination. Palestinian jews?? That would be like going over completely to the side of the devil to many in the arab world who are anti-israel and I can only imagine what sort of life they live.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TLolive: 7:08pm On May 21, 2008
There are a musliim Arabs in Israeli but they DON'T live in comfort without discrimination like TayoD said. There is a lot of commotion over there. There are even check points on the roads where Isreaelis (european jews) make sure no arabs pass through. I saw this on a documentary. The US will never show this to the people.
I feel that the Arab jews have it worse. Like u said, their identity is really. . . undecided
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Kobojunkie: 7:34pm On May 21, 2008
TLolive:

There are a musliim Arabs in Israeli but they DON'T live in comfort without discrimination like TayoD said. There is a lot of commotion over there. There are even check points on the roads where Isreaelis (european jews) make sure no arabs pass through. I saw this on a documentary. The US will never show this to the people. I feel that the Arab jews have it worse. Like u said, their identity is really. . . undecided

Can you prove these?? I would like for you to show us that this same documentary you CLAIM you watched has never been shown on US TV. There are over a million  _muslims arabs who live in Isreal and live normal lives. Many live with friends who are jewish and have absolutely no problem and you come in with a fanthom claim that the great ones in isreal are being discriminated against? You mean the a great one dude who holds the key to the oldest church and whose family has held that position for centuries is crying?? come on!!!
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Mariory(m): 8:01pm On May 21, 2008
Congrats Israel. Bring on the next 60 years. smiley
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by grafikdon: 8:22pm On May 21, 2008
CONGRATS TO ISRAEL!!!! Much respect to this nation surrounded by people who will not hesitate to grab any opportunity to wipe them off the face of the planet. Keep your heads up and let the malicious and the prejudiced continue throwing pebbles from a distance.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Tornadoz(m): 2:04am On May 22, 2008
For those congratulating Israel maybe you should have offered your towns and villages when the world was looking for a place for Jews. Most people don't know Kenya or Uganda was suggested at the time as a homeland for these people. Imagine what east Africa would have been now if Jews were given a homeland there.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Tornadoz(m): 2:25am On May 22, 2008
@Tayo-D
A brief search on google tells me the writer of the above article "Charles Krauthammer" is a despised neocon and racist. This man is a mouth piece of the Jewish people and was rewarded with The Guardian of Zion Award. (The Guardian of Zion Award is an annual award given since 1997 to Jews who have been supportive of the State of Israel.) This is hardly a man you could rely on for fairness.

But the real question is this: On what basis do you refer to the Jews as racist?
Start your research from this Jewish website:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884358.html
Isreal was created by the UN. That they have no backbone to stand on the principle which they backed those years only shows their cowardice.
Maybe the UN now realize they created a beast that is out of control.
No nation bombing Isreal? Are you for real?
Is Gaza a nation?
What do you want Isreal to do? Aim their own katyusha rockets back at Gaza?
No. Give the Palestinians their freedom and the rockets would stop.
The B52's help to minimise civilian casualties of their enemies by precision strikes.
If these strikes are so precise how come the ratio is 10:1 or the Jewish killing machine can't control their orgy of violence?
They could as well just send a single bomb that will annihilate those Palestinians. Its fair game in a war whose aim on one side is actually annihilation.
Stop gloating because Iran would soon have that single bomb you proudly mentioned above. Israel would have to sit with the Arabs soon or else.

Lastly Tayo, do you think Steven Spielberg look middle eastern?
You must know if Jews were original middle eastern settlers they would look Middle Eastern. You don't need a degree in genetics to know this. If they look European, dress like Europeans, emigrated from Europe then of course they must be Europeans.
If America likes Jews so much let them calve out a homeland for Jews in the States.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 3:04pm On May 22, 2008
@Tornadoz,

For those congratulating Israel maybe you should have offered your towns and villages when the world was looking for a place for Jews. Most people don't know Kenya or Uganda was suggested at the time as a homeland for these people. Imagine what east Africa would have been now if Jews were given a homeland there.
What's your point? People suggests difernt things at various times. Naija was menat to be called Niger Area until Nigeria was adopted. It only makes sense that such suggestion will be rejected on the basis that they are not their patriachial homeland. The place we call West bank today was actually the home of Abraham and Isaac.

A brief search on google tells me the writer of the above article "Charles Krauthammer" is a despised neocon and racist. This man is a mouth piece of the Jewish people and was rewarded with The Guardian of Zion Award. (The Guardian of Zion Award is an annual award given since 1997 to Jews who have been supportive of the State of Israel.) This is hardly a man you could rely on for fairness.
Now you want to focus on the person and not the issues he raised. There is nothing wrong in being recognised by people who recognise your work is in their interest. I'm not sure now if it was a top Al'Quaeda or Iranian official who publicly confessed his love for Obama. Does that make Obama an Apologist for them?

Start your research from this Jewish website:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884358.html
Common, i thought you'd do better than that. Discrimination about land redistribution isn't racism when considering the fact that the land was bought enmasse so as to provide a resting place for Jews. Would you call it racism also if as an African I go there and they reject my application to buy a piece of the land? I know a very outspoken ministry in support of the Jews here who only managed to buy some land there only after scores of years when they started the application. Is that racism too?

Maybe the UN now realize they created a beast that is out of control.
The same people that the UN left to be slaughtered by the Arab Armies the same day they became an independent nation by the UN law? Who really is the beast? Can you imagine having a baby and not defending the baby against attackers the same day when the baby was born. I really don't understand how you keep changing the goal posts. The Arabs claim their grouse is because of the occupied territories. The undeniable fact as claimed by the article above is this: "But in 1948, there were no "occupied territories." Nor in 1967 when Egypt, Syria and Jordan joined together in a second war of annihilation against Israel. Look at Gaza today. No Israeli occupation, no settlements, not a single Jew left. The Palestinian response? Unremitting rocket fire killing and maiming Israeli civilians. The declared casus belli of the Palestinian government in Gaza behind these rockets? The very existence of a Jewish state."

Is Gaza a nation?
Well, it is a self-governing area populated by people who regard themselves as nationals of a Palestinian State. So what is it then?

No. Give the Palestinians their freedom and the rockets would stop.
The way the rockets stopped in 1948! And the way it ceased when they had complete control of Gaza!? Yeah Right!

If these strikes are so precise how come the ratio is 10:1 or the Jewish killing machine can't control their orgy of violence?
So what should the ration be, 1:1? How would you consider the killings justifiable? By killing in proportion to the population or just one life to one life. If we are considering the proportion, we might as well consider the population ratio of the Arabs to the Isrealis when they attacked in 1948. This was 650,000 Jews to 40 million Arabs. This means the Isrealis should kill at least 60 Arabs to every Jew killed. The Isrealis need to double their efforts to achieve this feat.

Stop gloating because Iran would soon have that single bomb you proudly mentioned above. Israel would have to sit with the Arabs soon or else.
So you agree that Iran is developing the weapon. Why shouldn't their be a pre-emptive strike by the US and Isreal to prevent that happening? Isreal has already dealt with Iraq and Syria in this regard, Iran is absolutely next. Besides, have you read about the War Games with the scenario of a nuclear war between Isreal and Iran? Well, while Isreal will be seriously wounded, Iran will be annihilated, not just by the Jewish State, but with the help of the US as recently admitted by Clinton and indirectly by Obama. Check this out: [url]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3486011,00.html[/url] So please permit me to continue gloating as you said.

Lastly Tayo, do you think Steven Spielberg look middle eastern?
You must know if Jews were original middle eastern settlers they would look Middle Eastern. You don't need a degree in genetics to know this. If they look European, dress like Europeans, emigrated from Europe then of course they must be Europeans.
A Jew is not so much as one born a Jew, there are ways of becoming one apart from birth. Besides, the Jews are not just those who emigrated back into that land, but include those who never left through captivity.

If America likes Jews so much let them calve out a homeland for Jews in the States.
The Arabs should lead by example. If they love the Palestinians so much why don't they carve out a significant portion of their homland for them and not cram them into refugee camps as they now do. This is only fair considering the fact that they told the Palestinians to leave before the 1948 war of annihilation against Isreal which they lost.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by texazzpete(m): 3:24pm On May 22, 2008
@TayoD
Spot on!
Most people don't know that Jordan, Egypt and Syria were only interested in land grabbing of their own during the 1948 war. How many Palestinians were settled by Jordan's Arab league?
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Blatant: 4:37pm On May 22, 2008
Interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/96913.stm

The question of land - who owns it, and who can build on it - is at the centre of the disagreements which have ensured that peace in the Middle East remains a distant dream. The recent 50th anniversary of the founding of Israel coincided with some of the bloodiest violence the region has seen in years. The Palestinian writer, Edward Said, has been making a film about the homeland he left more than 50 years ago.
One overriding impression is that minute by minute, hour by hour, day after day, we are losing more and more Palestinian land to the Israelis.

There wasn't a road or a bypassing highway, or a small village that we passed in our travel for three weeks that wasn't witness to the daily tragedy of land expropriated, fields bulldozed, trees, plants, and crops uprooted, and houses destroyed.

The Palestinian owners stood by, helpless to do much to stop the onslaught, uncared for by more fortunate Palestinians, unassisted by the Palestinian authority or quasi-national government ruled by Yasser Arafat.

"feeling of sorrowful helplessness"

It is more important not to underestimate the damage that has been done, the violence to our lives that will ensue, the distortions and misery that result.

There is nothing quite like the feeling of sorrowful helplessness that I felt while listening to a young man who has spent 15 years working as an illegal daylabourer in Israel in order to save up money to build a little house for his family, only to discover one day upon returning from work that the house has been reduced to a pile of rubble flattened by an Israeli bulldozer with everything still inside the house.

When you ask why this was done - the land, after all, was his - you are told that there was no warning, only a paper given to him the next day by an Israeli soldier stating that he had built the structure without a licence.

Where in the world, except under Israeli authority, are people required to have a licence (which is always denied them) before they can build on their own property? Israeli Jews can build, but never Palestinians. This is apartheid.

I once stopped on the main road from Jerusalem to Hebron to record on film an Israeli bulldozer, surrounded and protected by soldiers, ploughing through some fertile land just alongside the road.

About 100 meters away stood four Palestinian men, looking both miserable and angry.

It was their land, I was told, which they had worked for generations, now being destroyed on the pretext that it was needed to widen an already wide road built for the settlements.

"Why do they need a road that will be 120 meters wide - why can't they let me go on farming my land?" Asked one of them plaintively.

"How am I going to feed my children?"
I asked the men whether they received any warning that this was going to be done. No, they said, we just heard today and when we got here it was too late.

What about the Authority? I asked, has it helped?

"No of course not," was the answer. "They're never here when we need them."

I went over to the Israeli soldiers who at first refused to talk to me in the presence of cameras and microphones.

But I kept insisting, and was lucky to find one who clearly seemed troubled by the whole business, even though he said he was merely following orders.

"Palestinians powerless to help"

"But don't you see how unjust it is to take land from farmers who have no defence against you?" I said , to which he replied: "It's not their land really. It belongs to the state of Israel."

I recall saying to him that 60 years ago the same arguments were made against Jews in Germany, and now here were Jews using it against their victims, the Palestinians. He moved away, unwilling to respond.


And so it is throughout the territories and Jerusalem, with Palestinians powerless to help each other.

I gave a lecture at the University of Bethlehem in which I spoke about the continuous dispossession that was taking place, and wondered why those 50,000 security people employed by the Authority, plus the thousands more who sit behind desks, pushing paper from one side of their desks to the other, cashing handsome cheques at the end of each month, why they were not out there on the land helping to prevent the expropriations, helping the people whose livelihood was being taken from them before their eyes.

Why, I asked don't villagers go out to their fields and simply stand in front of the bulldozers, and why don't all our great leaders give support and moral help to the poor people who are losing the battle?

"Something dramatic is stirring"

I feel certain that given Mr Nathanyahu's intransigence and the profound sense of frustration felt by all Palestinians, something dramatic is stirring, about to occur.

Widespread civil disobedience perhaps, more overt disenchantment with Mr Arafat's leadership. Perhaps more violence.

Neither the Israeli experience nor the peace process has really worked. A new change is very much on the horizon.




PLEASE NOTE THAT IT IS FROM 1998
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Blatant: 4:39pm On May 22, 2008
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 4:57pm On May 22, 2008
@Blatant,

Exactly what is your point?
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by 1luvkipsus: 4:59pm On May 22, 2008
Don't have time to read all these.
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by Blatant: 5:10pm On May 22, 2008
Tayo-D:

@Blatant,

Exactly what is your point?

My point? Do you not think Palestinians have reasons to be aggrieved? And these evils against are still being continually perpetrated
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by TayoD1(m): 5:26pm On May 22, 2008
@Blatant,

My point? Do you not think Palestinians have reasons to be aggrieved? And these evils against are still being continually perpetrated
The land in question is in dispute, and in a time of war declared not by the Isrealis, anything that needs to be done will be done to gain a military advantage. Do you know what the Nigeiran State did to win the Biafran war?

and by the way, the Reporter provided a human angle story to the Palestinian that was killed and the Isrealis only got a pasing mention. This is how they manipulate people like you into accepting the victim mentality by the Arabs. The victim here is Isreal who is only trying to survive in the midst of hostile neighbours. Talk about "He prepared a table for me in the midst of mine enemies."
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by seeu(m): 5:39pm On May 22, 2008
Long Live Israel - The People of God!
Re: The Miracle At 60 - Isreal by 4Him1(m): 6:46pm On May 22, 2008
Long live Eretz Yisrael at 60!!

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