John was a normal human being, he has earthly parents(mother and father) commissioned by God as a messenger, but he was not a supernatural being who came down from Heaven.

in the OT when Israelite spies entered Jericho, rahab hides them... , James wrote:

james kjv 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers[aggelos], and had sent them out another way?

in NIV the messengers are spies
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies [aggelos; KJV: messengers] and sent them off in a different direction? (Jam 2:25)

the above is reference to human spies who are sent to gather information from Jericho and bring a message back to human military leaders about its vulnerabilities. so the term is referred to human messengers... like i send pigeon can be called aggelos even dogs.

But in the passage below, the messenger is a spirit creature a supernatural being sent with a message from God Himself, the word is translated angel.

But after he had considered this, an angel [aggelos] of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” (Mat 1:20)

benalvino: ^^^ i want to thank you for realizing that we should make meaning out of this discussion at last by coming back to the main topic...
the translation you choose says angel there... the one i choose says messenger. there are 2 translations that reads angel
and the rest reads messenger...

If the word Messenger means angel, why should there be a problem with the choice of word used there ?

I mean, if it is angel fine.

If it is messenger fine, since they both means the something.

Should there be a need for your kind of confussion since the two word is the same thing ?

benalvino:


so it depends on the one you take... besides humans can be called angels because messenger means angel and angel means messenger...

^^^

with that in mind, has Jesus christ never done the work of a messenger or an angel to the father befor ?

What is wrong with calling him a messenger vis-a-vis angel ?

See :


"As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. " (John 6:57).


"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me. " (John 7:16).

"Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. " (John 7:33).

"And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. " (John 8:16).

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. " (John 8:42).

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. " (John 9:4).

"Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. " (John 12:44-45).

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. " (John 12:49).

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. " (John 13:20).

"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. " (John 14:24).
............

^

If Jesus christ did not see his coming as a messenger or angel as a problem, are you seeing it as a problem ?


Douay-Rheims Version /
Malachai /
Chapter 3


1.
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.
...............
^
From the above, what then is your problem ? Trinity ?

truthislight:

If the word Messenger means angel, why should there be a problem with the choice of word used there ?

I mean, if it is angel fine.

If it is messenger fine, since they both means the something.

Should there be a need for your kind of confussion since the two word is the same thing ?




^^^

with that in mind, has Jesus christ never done the work of a messenger or an angel to the father befor ?

What is wrong with calling him a messenger vis-a-vis angel ?

See ?

"As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. " (John 6:57).

"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. " (John 7:16).

"Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. " (John 7:33).

"And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. " (John 8:16).

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. " (John 8:42).

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. " (John 9:4).

"Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. " (John 12:44-45).

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. " (John 12:49).

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. " (John 13:20).

"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. " (John 14:24).
............

^

If Jesus christ did not see his coming as a messenger or angel as a problem, are you seeing it as a problem ?


Douay-Rheims Version /
Malachai /
Chapter 3


1.
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.
...............
^
From the above, what then is your problem ? Trinity ?

good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... angels are servant by default and humans are not...
an angel is a nature that is why the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel and when same task is performed by man it translate a messenger...

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is the nature of some supernatural spirits.

benalvino:

good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... angels are servant by default and humans are not...
an angel is a nature that is why the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel and when same task is performed by man it translate a messenger...

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is the nature of some supernatural spirits.

^^^

Is Jesus not a servant of Yahweh ?

NEW KING JAMES :

"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus; whom you delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go." (Acts 3:13).

benalvino:

good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... angels are servant by default and humans are not...
an angel is a nature that is why the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel and when same task is performed by man it translate a messenger...

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is the nature of some supernatural spirits.

^^^

Is Jesus not a servant of Yahweh ?

NEW KING JAMES :

"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus; whom you delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go." (Acts 3:13).

truthislight:

^^^

Is Jesus not a servant of Yahweh ?

NEW KING JAMES :

"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus; whom you delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go." (Acts 3:13).

my point is different...
is the angel you said jesus was, in the nature of angel gabriel?...

now there are spirits that are not called angels... that is the spirit that is inside me and you...

Jesus can be called angel putting it in mind that angel means messenger. and also when you dont mean he is like Gabriel or michael...

anything can be servant of anything...

Kings have servants
obama have servants
in the slave trade many africans became servants
animals are also servants... it doesnt make them like gabriel or michael...

no all humans are servant and messengers...

therefor Jesus as a man was no different from other people who are called messengers of kings... which is also aggelos or did the bible use another word, greek word for them?

satan have his angels... some are demons some are humans... and satan him self is an angel and that is how he was created

benalvino:

my point is different...
is the angel you said jesus was, in the nature of angel gabriel?...

now there are spirits that are not called angels... that is the spirit that is inside me and you...

Jesus can be called angel putting it in my that angel means messenger. and also when you dont mean he is like Gabriel or michael...

anything can be servant of anything...

Kings have servants
obama have servants
in the slave trade many africans became servants
animals are also servants... it doesnt make them like gabriel or michael...

no all humans are servant and messengers...

therefor Jesus as a man was no different from other people who are called messengers of kings... which is also aggelos or did the bible use another word greek word for them?

satan have his angels... some are demons some are humans... and satan him self is an angel and that is how he was created

Am not interested in what your brain is telling U ^.

When you say "Jesus as a man", are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh's messenger ?

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling you ^.

When you say "Jesus as a man", are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?

how funny... I never said that...

there are demons who are subjective to satan and they are called angels...

there are people who are subjective to their king on earth... they are servants and the word aggelos is use to describe them in greek.

that is the point am making...

Jesus is the servant of God.

P.S if you are not interested why are you still posting ? it seems like you are interested to me.

just back from work

i spoted an obvious denial (in bold below)

benalvino:

my point is different...
is the angel you said jesus was, in the nature of angel gabriel?...

now there are spirits that are not called angels... that is the spirit that is inside me and you...

Jesus can be called angel putting it in mind that angel means messenger. and also when you dont mean he is like Gabriel or michael...

anything can be servant of anything...

Kings have servants
obama have servants
in the slave trade many africans became servants
animals are also servants... it doesnt make them like gabriel or michael...

no all humans are servant and messengers...

therefor [size=18pt]Jesus as a man was no different [/size]from other people who are called messengers of kings... which is also aggelos or did the bible use another word, greek word for them?

satan have his angels... some are demons some are humans... and satan him self is an angel and that is how he was created

an explanation was seeked, after it was discovered, below

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling you ^.

When you say [size=18pt]"Jesus as a man"[/size], are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?

then follows obvious denial tagged[b] 2(#b)
[/b]below in bold:

benalvino:how funny...[size=18pt] I never said that...[/size]

there are demons who are subjective to satan and they are called angels...

there are people who are subjective to their king on earth... they are servants and the word aggelos is use to describe them in greek.

that is the point am making...

Jesus is the servant of God.

P.S if you are not interested why are you still posting cheesy? it seems like you are interested to me.

Good job benalvino

when i watch trinitarians doing their wayo, i ask myself 'which planet they came from' deluded planet, CHAI!

BERNIMOORE: just back from work

i spoted an obvious denial (in bold below)




an explanation was seeked, after it was discovered, below



then follows obvious denial tagged[b] 2(#b)
[/b]below in bold:



Good job benalvino

I never said jesus is not a servant of God... you have started with this again... truthislight ask if am saying jesus is not a servant of God and i said i never said that....

jesus as a man was like abraham, elijah etc... all were servant of God...

being a servant of God or messenger of God... the word aggelos is use to describe them... same word that is use to describe servants or mare men....

below is post that i reply to with "I never said that"

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling you ^.

When you say "Jesus as a man", [size=28pt]are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?[/size]

[size=18pt]Angel have more than one nature according to the book of benalvino; (1)the nature of angel, or angels nature. (2)Also the nature of some supernatural spirits, and besides, they can take on human's nature[/size]

see bolded below in his own statement;

benalvino:

good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... angels are servant by default and humans are not...
an [size=18pt]angel is a nature[/size] that is why the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel and when same task is performed by man it translate a messenger...

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is [size=18pt]the nature of some supernatural spirits[/size].

BERNIMOORE: [size=18pt]Angel have more than one nature according to the book of benalvino; (1)the nature of angel, or angels nature. (2)Also the nature of some supernatural spirits, and besides, they can take on human's nature[/size]

see bolded below in his own statement;

twisting my words are making you look silly.
what you said is no where near what i said...
2nd try 2nd fail
try again

what is it you never said ?

benalvino:

how funny... I never said that...

there are demons who are subjective to satan and they are called angels...

there are people who are subjective to their king on earth... they are servants and the word aggelos is use to describe them in greek.

that is the point am making...

Jesus is the servant of God.

P.S if you are not interested why are you still posting ? it seems like you are interested to me.

see below your words in red :

benalvino:

my point is different...
is the angel you said jesus was, in the nature of angel gabriel?...

now there are spirits that are not called angels... that is the spirit that is inside me and you...

Jesus can be called angel putting it in my that angel means messenger. and also when you dont mean he is like Gabriel or michael...

anything can be servant of anything...

Kings have servants
obama have servants
in the slave trade many africans became servants
animals are also servants... it doesnt make them like gabriel or michael...

no all humans are servant and messengers...

therefor Jesus as a man was no different from other people who are called messengers of kings... which is also aggelos or did the bible use another word greek word for them?

satan have his angels... some are demons some are humans... and satan him self is an angel and that is how he was created

benalvino:

I never said jesus is not a servant of God... you have started with this again... truthislight ask if am saying jesus is not a servant of God and i said i never said that....

[size=18pt]jesus as a man [/size]was like abraham, elijah etc... all were servant of God...

being a servant of God or messenger of God... the word aggelos is use to describe them... same word that is use to describe servants or mare men....

below is post that i reply to with "I never said that"

[size=14pt]was he(truthislight) making a case for servant? no![/size] in order of the post of rows this post preceeds yours 'in' direct order 1,2,3, on this same page, and what he(truthislight)was emphasising was 'the man jesus' he even 'put it in quote' in this post below;

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling you ^.

When you say "Jesus as a man", are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?

did he put servaant of God in quote?

now you will come with one long story that will accomodate Yoruba-Yoruba to hide your obvious denial, CHAI lets watch noW.

truthislight: what is it you never said ?



see below your words in red :

you ask this "are you saying he is still [size=18pt]not[/size] subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?"

and i said i never said that... simple

v

benalvino:

I never said jesus is not a servant of God... you have started with this again... truthislight ask if am saying jesus is not a servant of God and i said i never said that....

Jesus as a man was like abraham, elijah etc... all were servant of God...

being a servant of God or messenger of God... the word aggelos is use to describe them... same word that is use to describe servants or mare men....

below is post that i reply to with "I never said that"

Can you now explain below what i had ask you concerning Jesus subjection now in heaven in relation to Yahweh ?

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling U ^.

When you say "Jesus as a man", are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh's messenger ?

BERNIMOORE:

[size=14pt]was he(truthislight) making a case for servant? no![/size] in order of the post of rows this post preceeds yours 'in' direct order 1,2,3, on this same page, and what he(truthislight)was emphasising was 'the man jesus' he even 'put it in quote' in this post below;



did he put servaant of God in quote?

now you will come with one long story that will accomodate Yoruba-Yoruba to hide your obvious denial, CHAI lets watch noW.

lol... what is your point?
i still doesnt see anything wrong with what i have said...

jesus is a servant of God...
kings have servants
insects have servants too...
no matter the case he is making... if you are working for God... you are his servant... whether you use messenger or angel... One big point is that you are serving God... So i dont know who you are trying to prove

benalvino:

twisting my words are making you look silly.
what you said is no where near what i said...
2nd try 2nd fail
try again

i bolded them right there in your comments, so dont deny it, thats the implication;

1, benalvino manufactured 'nature of Angel'

2, Angels nature of some supernatural spirits

among other natures

truthislight:

Can you now explain below what i had ask you concerning Jesus subjection now in heaven in relation to Yahweh ?

I want to see the point Bernimoore is trying to make first...

benalvino:

I want to see the point Bernimoore is trying to make first...

Ok, am waiting.

Just dont forget.

Peace.

benalvino:

lol... what is your point?
i still doesnt see anything wrong with what i have said...

jesus is a servant of God...
kings have servants
insects have servants too...
[size=18pt]no matter the case he is making..[/size]. if you are working for God... you are his servant... whether you use messenger or angel... One big point is that you are serving God... So i dont know who you are trying to prove

bolded sait it all, he put the emphasis 'on quote' ('jesus as a man')

yet, you ignore the quote, and swith to servant issue, Are you a baby? see obvious here

truthislight:

Am not interested in what your brain is telling U ^.

When you say [size=18pt]"Jesus as a man"[/size], are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh's messenger ?

that was my point in bold,

oya answer him now

BERNIMOORE:

i bolded them right there in your comments, so dont deny it, thats the implication;

1, benalvino manufactured 'nature of Angel'

2, Angels nature of some supernatural spirits

among other natures

we are humans...
the spirit beings in heaven what are they called?

BERNIMOORE:

bolded sait it all, he put the emphasis 'on quote' ('jesus as a man')

yet, you ignore the quote, and swith to servant issue, Are you a baby? see obvious here



that was my point in bold,

oya answer him now

you don't have case lol... you still forcing it... he didn't even see anything wrong with what i said... my statement is that Jesus was a servant of God when he was on earth and still his today. I dont know why you are trying to force fault out of nothing.

benalvino: @bidam thanks for coming... this Guy is a reptile, chameleon... see how he is today... his true color is showing

Lol, i just peeked na,continue abeg,i no wan bernimore wahala

Bidam: Lol, i just peeked na,continue abeg,i no wan bernimore wahala

haha...

benalvino:

you don't have case lol... you still forcing it... he didn't even see anything wrong with what i said... my statement is that Jesus was a servant of God when he was on earth and still his today. I dont know why you are trying to force fault out of nothing.

you are a case! obviously, you denied what truthislight put 'in bold'

you said 'he didnt see it'

dont worry, let him respond later, he is waiting,ok!

lets move on

benalvino:

good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... angels are servant by default and humans are not...
[size=18pt]an angel is a nature[/size] that is why [size=18pt]the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel [/size]and when same task is performed by man it translate a messenger...

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is the nature of some supernatural spirits.

you claimed in bold above that [size=14pt]the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel [/size]

Are you saying that [size=14pt]ALL supernatural spirits are angel, or not all?[/size] please answer that.

benalvino: John was a normal human being, he has earthly parents(mother and father) commissioned by God as a messenger, but he was not a supernatural being who came down from Heaven.

in the OT when Israelite spies entered Jericho, rahab hides them... , James wrote:

james kjv 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers[aggelos], and had sent them out another way?

in NIV the messengers are spies
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies [aggelos; KJV: messengers] and sent them off in a different direction? (Jam 2:25)

the above is reference to human spies who are sent to gather information from Jericho and bring a message back to human military leaders about its vulnerabilities. so the term is referred to human messengers... like i send pigeon can be called aggelos even dogs.

But in the passage below, the messenger is a spirit creature a supernatural being sent with a message from God Himself, the word is translated angel.

But after he had considered this, an angel [aggelos] of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” (Mat 1:20)

Absolutely there was no difference between AGELLOS and MALAWK, you claimed that there was a reason agellos was used for both spirit angel and humans, Again malawk was also used foR spirit angels,and humans,

see it below;

Genesis 16:7-14

7 The[b] angel of the Lord[/b](malawk) found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”

"(2Sam 3:14) And David sent messengers"(human)[malawk] ”

[size=14pt]tell us the reason why MALAWK WAS USED THE SAME WAY AS AGELLOS, both applied to spirit angel and humans specifically using above post as to butress what you mean, leave definations for now, dont lift def. here 4 now., interprete using this case study here.[/size]

BERNIMOORE:

you are a case! obviously, you denied what truthislight put 'in bold'

you said 'he didnt see it'

dont worry, let him respond later, he is waiting,ok!

lets move on

lol i know truthislight knows what i mean when i said i never said that.... you know also but your life or character wont let you accept....

let me call your attention again
truthislight asked in the quote below

When you say "Jesus as a man", are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?

I stated Jesus as a man was no different from elijah, abraham etc....

he ask in the quote above...
"when you say Jesus as a man" this part i have no objection to... the part i never is the rest of his statement, which is
"are you saying he is still not subjective to Yahweh now in heaven and hence still Yahweh messenger ?"

and yes i never said jesus is not subjective to the father in heaven as we speak....

you life is full of deceit if you continue like this.

truthislight understand and ask me a question from the link below
https://www.nairaland.com/1403841/why-jesus-son-god-not/7#17718396

and i answer is question here
https://www.nairaland.com/1403841/why-jesus-son-god-not/7#17718639

you should go on fooling your self trying to make contradiction lol. after now you will start deleting your comments again because your whole credibility and respect you seek is on nairaland... what a shame.

BERNIMOORE:

you claimed in bold above that [size=14pt]the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel [/size]

Are you saying that [size=14pt]ALL supernatural spirits are angel, or not all?[/size] please answer that.

of course you know what am talking about... the supernatural spirits in heaven and the demons where ever they are, are called angels...
the bible always refer to them as angels or when aggelos is used concerning them it almost always translate angel instead of messenger...

trying again and failing agian

God was a supernatural spirit and he was not an Angel... he takes the form of anything... even angels.

One big difference from God as a spirit and Angel as a spirit is that seeing him in his glory will kill them also... that alone means they must not be like him.

[size=18pt]its funny how you dodge a simple question because it will show you understand what am saying if you get the correct answer. so am asking agian.

1: are we called or described as humans?
2: what are the cherubs or spirit beings in heaven called?[/size]
i am waiting for you to tell me.