truthislight:


(Benimoor no vex o for that ^)



Those created by God in heaven are called 'spirit sons' of God.

This sons also do the work of messenger to the father, hence they are called 'angels' .

No one have a/the nature of a 'messenger', or is there any one that you know ?

Even human 'messengers' are by nature 'human' then, they can do the work of a messenger, same with spirit creatures of God. Their nature cannot be 'messenger'(angel) No !

But all messengers Are angels, and all faithful spirit sons of God are humble to the father and do his messages and hence are called angels.

Same with faithful human servant of God, they do messenger work for God also and hence angel.

Saying that angel is a nature, is saying there are humans that are created messengers by nature and same with the heavenly sons of God.

benalvino:

I give you thumbs up for this because you are close... and am glad that we are discussing like grown ups ones again without any trolling...

Now when you say human are by nature humans
we know that they are beings like the angels and YAHWEH
but human is use to differentiate us from angels and YAHWEH
so when one say we are humans by nature he is implying what is use to identify us and differentiate us from other beings or living creatures like animals

same Goes with the angels... Once i say angel you will know the class of beings i am addressing.

that is why i said aggelos translate 2 words
1: an angel which is a word use to describe the sons of God...
2: messenger which is what they are...

and remember when i say if angels and messenger means same thing, "why is aggelos translate an angel and messenger"
in life everything is species have categories...

spirits
physical living creatures
eg
man- black, white, and other race
angels - cherub, seraph etc
lion - mountain lion, and other species
dogs - there are so many species
cats - pussycat, lion, tiger,

i can go on... there is always a word to use to differentiate things...
messenger - prophets, angels etc...

benalvino:
but human is use to differentiate us from angels spirit creatures and YAHWEH

truthislight:

^^^

see.



^^^

fixed ^.

That ^ is the right way to put it > humans and spirit creatures

*you dont say the difference between human and messengers.*

in addition to the post above

does this make sense?
Hebrews 1:14 (ESV)
14 Are they not all ministering [size=18pt]breath[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

see strong's concordance below

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.

this is the mistake you are making with Angel and messenger and you want to make it again...

when i say breath am i talking about
a: the breath in heaven
b: breath in me
answer o...

I have always told you our spirit and angels are not the same...
when you say Breath is different from spirit form are you not comparing apple and oranges?

BERNIMOORE:
you deliberately fix ru'ach in place of 'supernatural spirit form, but let me assume that you dont understand what 'i ask you to replace

rua'ch is 'breath common to both humans and animals'

what im saying is NOT about the ministering 'spirits' their spirit falls under pne'umawhile another spirit 'pa'ra'cle'tos'(holy spirit)

in the case above, see how it applies;

so,

Are they not all ministering [size=18pt]pne'uma[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit





you are the one still confused that how are 'we sustained by breath'? but that is who we(humans and animal are), breathe, immidiately it stops YOU ARE DEAD.

PLS, STOP ATTACHING EMOTIONS

IT WILL BE HARD FOR TRINITARIANS LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE SPIRIT MENTIONED THERE IS 'IMMORTAL' BUT NO, THE SPIRIT THERE IS WIND, YES WIND BLOWN INTO ADAM NOSERILLS.

BERNIMOORE: Stop sticking to afterthought new generation strong conc.

go to history

i will post the wikipedia meanings

maybe you stick with strong concordance

then i stick with wiki, ok so that i dont prove over righteous

meanwhile, i want others comment.

benalvino:

hebrew
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: [size=18pt]spirit[/size]

hebrew
neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Short Definition: [size=18pt]breath[/size]
^^^Genesis 2:7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.


you still didnt make any point...

in job
Job 32:8, But it is the spirit in man{ruach}, the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

is same hebrew word use for the spirit of God
“The Spirit{ruach} of God hath made me, and the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty hath given me life.”
(Job 33:4)

ruach which is hebrew word... means wind, breath and spirit...

[size=18pt]so you want to stop using spirit to describe the angels and start using breath too? [/size]


Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit himself{God} bears witness with our spirit{humans} that we are children of God,

same greek use for the spirit of God is same use for us... [size=18pt]"pne'uma"[/size]

BERNIMOORE:

NOT a single usage for pneuma?

even when i apply it directly to hebrew 1:14 you still use ruach to mean pneuma? where do youthink that setting things up as traps will get you? laugh

DOES SPIRIT SONS OF GOD (IN THEIR SUPERNATURAL FORM)relY on breathing for their life sustainance? then why we are NOT IMFORMED, OR ,im i making a case for spirit angels by using ru'ach? NOO, LETS SEE THE PRIMARY MEANING OF RUACH!
when i said that YOU FIX DELIBERATELY, im i not correct? i observed that you really have the luxury with the strong, but they relied on the greek and hebrew roots of translation, so they are SECONDARY

and again, maybe because you are part of the strong's scholars

im happy you really relied on the concordance

BERNIMOORE:
NOT a single usage for pneuma?

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit{pneuma} himself{God} bears witness with our spirit{pne'uma}{humans} that we are children of God,
same greek use for the spirit of God is same use for us... [size=18pt]"pne'uma"[/size]
I dont know what you are trying to imply even when i showed you clear evidence

BERNIMOORE:
even when i apply it directly to hebrew 1:14 you still use ruach to mean pneuma? where do youthink that setting things up as traps will get you? laugh

BERNIMOORE:
DOES SPIRIT SONS OF GOD (IN THEIR SUPERNATURAL FORM)relY on breathing for their life sustainance? then why we are NOT IMFORMED, OR ,im i making a case for spirit angels by using ru'ach? NOO, LETS SEE THE PRIMARY MEANING OF RUACH!

BERNIMOORE:
and again, maybe because you are part of the strong's scholars

im happy you really relied on the concordance

And you failed to look at the Greek scripture I provide. You and you excuses

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit himself[size=18pt]{God}[/size] bears witness with our spirit{humans} that we are children of God,

same greek use for the spirit of God is same use for us... "pne'uma"

You are a clown ooo is job not Hebrew scriptures I showed you good example


Then the last one a Greek scripture I showed you that pneuma was used instead of you to read it you decide to look for mistakes now you have made your self look silly again.
Check again... Check Romans what is used there which I included in my normal post.

and in Hebrew 1:14 pneuma is used... Same word used for human spirits and if you want I can show you many Greek verses how they are used. I showed you 2 Hebrew and a Greek scripture you come with the reply above instead of you to say ok I get your point instead you keep digging your hole

So kindly tell us what was used

Benalvino:
in addition to the post above

does this make sense?
Hebrews 1:14 (ESV)
14 Are they not all ministering[size=18pt] breath[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

BERNIMOORE:

i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you.

[size=18pt]yes,why not, animal can be called sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye[/size],

yes, because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

they

BERNIMOORE:

Good question

let me use strong conc, you preffered.

G4151
πνεῦμα
[size=14pt]pneuma[/size]

pnyoo'-mah
[size=18pt]a current of {air} that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze ; by analogy or figuratively a {spirit}[/size]
As you can see above,

THE ROOT:

(1)the primary usage, OR ROOT here is 'a current of {air}' that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze

(2)the secondary usage which was by analogy or figuratively, an afterthought and as spirit!

pneuma was used in the context of hebrew 1:14 'his angels spirits' is due to the afterthought arrived at by the theologians in(2)above, secondary usage which is 'spirit' as pneuma.

it refers to 'those resident in the moving wind/breeze as mediums or the; supernaturals/form,'

COMPARISM;

It is to the extent that 'the moving wind or breeze' in(1) above is similar to the one you feel when you put your hand near your nose;you feel the movement of breeze through your noserils.(breath}. a replica of feel of breeze, yet it was literally not visible to you evidence of life function internally within man,mammal etc.

LIMITATION

The one root idea running through all the greek pneuma and the correspding hebrew ru'ach is invisible force.(i dont mean a separate immortal)

Some scholars says;
[size=18pt]Because at its root both denotes moving air it's important to not always translate it "SPIRIT," which is only one possible meaning[/size]

in the light of the above, let me answer your post below;



your objection to 'breath' above was because to you it does not make sense. thats why i said that you should remove emotions, think outside the box

YES, it makes sense not only because of the explanation above, but it do make sense too to some of bible translators;

in the same heb 1:7 this time around, compare the usage, of 'wind' same as 'breath'(moving air)

'angel were maketh wind' 'human's breath in and out with same feel like wind'

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-7.htm

Hebrews 1:7 (ASV)
7 And of the angels he saith, [size=18pt]Who maketh his angels winds[/size], And his ministers a flame a fire:

Hebrews 1:7 (AMP)
7 Referring to the angels He says, [God] [size=18pt]Who makes His angels winds [/size]and His ministering servants flames of fire;

New American Standard Bible

And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
And about the angels He says: He makes His angels winds, and His servants a fiery flame,

International Standard Version
Now about the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."


as you can see above, angel are WINDS(moving)/breeze(unseen). their resident disposition, character, or nature nature(supernatural) resembles the movement of breath which you cannot see. this comparism brought about classifying them as spirits.

but, for me personally, i would prefer the primary root pnuo;;breath,breeze,(moving air)appropriate for humans/mammals where pneuma was derived, i want it to remain like that personally.

pneō

G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

A primary word; to breathe {hard} that {is} breeze

where G4151 pneuma was derived.

because adam was nowhere when he was created, his spirit returns to the state before his creation;inexistence

it does not mean that he possesed another spirit(immortal) different from pneō

G4154

BERNIMOORE: i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you. grin grin grin grin

yes,why not, animal can be called sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye,

yes, because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

they

BERNIMOORE: all, above breathe, can you deny that? that is their nature/form 'ru'ach' say it with me now; humans, animals, cat, or lion they all BREATHE(ru'ach) recite it now

BERNIMOORE: we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have 'human breathe' ru'ach(hebrew

BERNIMOORE: sorry what is translated 'spirit' is originally 'breathe' so replace it with breath(check the hebrew word RU'ACH) and see the translation.

benalvino: ^^^ I am ashamed that you are saying i am not indicating when i indicated by putting them in bracket!!! why do you look for things to pick on

is the Holy spirit not the spirit of GOD?
let us look at the word greek Word use to Describe God if it is different from what is use to describe Humans and the holy spirit...

you remember when Jesus said God is spirit
john 4:24 God is spirit{pneuma}, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit{pneuma} and in truth."

in job
Job 32:8, But it is the spirit in man{ruach}, the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

is same hebrew word use for the spirit of God
“The Spirit{ruach} of God hath made me, and the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty hath given me life.”
(Job 33:4)

BERNIMOORE:

'breath' by Figurative; Metonymy(check meaning to understand usage)
inspiration is different from 'breath of life'

King James Bible
But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

compare
2 Timothy 3:16
New King James Version
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

[quote author=benalvino]

Lol... ok.
First you said human dont have spirit that we have breath... the breath of God... and you went on to say the angels are spirit which implies that you are having the notion that angels are spirit but humans dont have spirit they have breath... Now you are saying the Angels are not spirit anymore but they are breath/Wind...

is that it?

BERNIMOORE:

Good question

let me use strong conc, you preffered.

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma

pnyoo'-mah
a current of {air} that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze ; by analogy or figuratively a {spirit}
As you can see above,

THE ROOT:

(1)the primary usage, OR ROOT here is 'a current of {air}' that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze

(2)the secondary usage which was by analogy or figuratively, an afterthought and as spirit!

pneuma was used in the context of hebrew 1:14 'his angels spirits' is due to the afterthought arrived at by the theologians in(2)above, secondary usage which is 'spirit' as pneuma.

it refers to 'those resident in the moving wind/breeze as mediums or the; supernaturals/form,'

COMPARISM;

It is to the extent that 'the moving wind or breeze' in(1) above is similar to the one you feel when you put your hand near your nose;you feel the movement of breeze through your noserils.(breath}. a replica of feel of breeze, yet it was literally not visible to you evidence of life function internally within man,mammal etc.

LIMITATION

The one root idea running through all the greek pneuma and the correspding hebrew ru'ach is invisible force.(i dont mean a separate immortal)

Some scholars says;
Because at its root both denotes moving air it's important to not always translate it "SPIRIT," which is only one possible meaning

in the light of the above, let me answer your post below;



your objection to 'breath' above was because to you it does not make sense. thats why i said that you should remove emotions, think outside the box

YES, it makes sense not only because of the explanation above, but it do make sense too to some of bible translators;

in the same heb 1:7 this time around, compare the usage, of 'wind' same as 'breath'(moving air)

'angel were maketh wind' 'human's breath in and out with same feel like wind'

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-7.htm

Hebrews 1:7 (ASV)
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:

Hebrews 1:7 (AMP)
7 Referring to the angels He says, [God] Who makes His angels winds and His ministering servants flames of fire;

New American Standard Bible

And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
And about the angels He says: He makes His angels winds, and His servants a fiery flame,

International Standard Version
Now about the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."


as you can see above, angel are WINDS(moving)/breeze(unseen). their resident disposition, character, or nature nature(supernatural) resembles the movement of breath which you cannot see. this comparism brought about classifying them as spirits.

but, for me personally, i would prefer the primary root pnuo;;breath,breeze,(moving air)appropriate for humans/mammals where pneuma was derived, i want it to remain like that personally.

pneō

G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

A primary word; to breathe {hard} that {is} breeze

where G4151 pneuma was derived.

because adam was nowhere when he was created, his spirit returns to the state before his creation;inexistence

it does not mean that he possesed another spirit(immortal) different from pneō

G4154

benalvino

before i continue

^^^ you made this statement and i did not see it... ANIMALS SONS OF MEN? hahahaha WHY NOT MEN SONS OF ANIMALS. I cant stop laughing.

BERNIMOORE: i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you. grin grin grin grin

yes,why not, animal can be called [/b]sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye,

yes, [b]because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

Black female PI.G? [/b]and you have a son, that was the animal sons of man(benalvino)

[b]i cant stop laughing looking your big black long nose on him

benalvino: ^^^ the funny thing is that i didnt even twist a single word. lol you said animals can be called sons of men... no one is talking about making love to animal except you are insulting me which is ok... it has never had effect in me.

BERNIMOORE:

deny that you have never made love to a P.IG i saw you now

benalvino^^^ you are saying humans dont have spirit but they have breath.

you said angels are spirit and humans have breath but not spirit....
Now you are saying the angels are not spirit again but wind/breath?

up there you told me to replace Spirit with breath... in hebrews 1:14

at this point you are so confuse. Lol

1: Jesus is an angel

2: jesus is not an angel anymore

3: the angels are not angels anymore but spirit sons of God

4: we dont have spirit but breath is our nature we and animals have breath

5: angels are not spirit sons of God anymore but WIND sons of God

6: animals are sons of men

benalvino:

No wahala can we continue...

BERNIMOORE: defence 2#d

benalvino]




[size=14pt]humans have spirit pneo[/size] [size=18pt]i never denied it[/size], 'breath' G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

BERNIMOORE: we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have 'human breathe' ru'ach(hebrew

no i did not say that

angel are not classified under pneoG4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

but, they are classified spirit under pneuma, i affirm




yes, go to my post 2#c (check (1) under defination of pneuma

root meaning wing
so pneuma is spirit, i never deny it, but your mischivious twisting



confuse that you * an ani p i.g?

yes i affirm before he came to the earth an arch angel he is

because imbeci..le like you have their reasoning upside down

provide just one statement where i said that NOW


YOU are even contradicting yourself, observers will laugh you here



i have answered that we have pneuma spirit (1)above in def

you cant show me that

1, and 2 of the defination which one do you take, olodo

angels are pneuma ext (1)


can be like your son

all this your twisting and wan kill me for laugh.

BERNIMOORE:

oya now fire!

benalvino:

Since
angels are not spirits and angel anymore...
Jesus is not an angel anymore... what are we still talking about?

benalvino:

Since
angels are not spirits and angel anymore...
Jesus is not an angel anymore... what are we still talking about?