@Candour and Christembassy, i was not caught off guard by your replies. I've read it on other threads and i've pondered on it.
I believe that excuse is not valid. I guess everywhere we read in the bible something like... "and Jesus spoke to the crowd saying..." we should ignore it because we are not the crowd.
When he spoke to the disciples in Acts 1:8, he was not referring to us because he was speaking to the disciples. That excuse is very lame bro.
See, every word Jesus said might not apply to us directly but it will carry principles that are vital for us. You think all what Jesus was saying was just to make a point to the Pharisee alone? If it were, there would be no need to include it in the Bible because it is irrelevant to us. After all, John told us that there were alot of things He said and did that were not recorded. In the same John, he let us know he spoke only what He heard. And the Father's word in the Scriptures are meant for us.
Okay, look at Mathew 16, Jesus was speaking and He made it clear that the "great confession" which Peter uttered were not revealed by flesh and blood but by the Father.
By your theory, we can also conclude that all what God meant was only Peter can get revelation since Jesus was not talking to us nor the apostles but Peter.
But thats wrong, the principle there is there are things that we can not know via our natural human faculties. But God is telling us a principle here that He can reveal to us what we can in no way know via our carnal understanding.
Now to the verse...

“What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful
to tithe even the tiniest
income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe, yes, but do
not neglect the more
important things. Luke 11:42NLT

I guess we can overlook this also because Jesus was talking to the Pharisees right?
What a joke!

Alwaystrue:

All because of Tithes and Offerings.....LORD please have mercy!

thats d only way out for u, but its nt compulsory to comment if u don't know what hit u.

@Christembassy, when i made my points clear on the other thread, i said i was not forcing it down anyone's throat. When you said you'd ride on with it, i told you, 'God is your strength'. That was the same thing i told Kunle.
I remember that in my first post on this thread, i talked about people who will start saying all manner of things with the assumption that i was a clergy. Now, whats it with the expose thing?
My friend, i am being calm online and still learning one or two things. There are questions i can ask you that i might get no answer or it will take time for me to get one. I already asked Candour one of such questions, and i believe he's still finding me an answer. This is not pride pls. So i say what i am sure of. In the words of Luke, "those things which are most surely believed".
So please, make your point known clearly without letting emotions becloud your posts.
Thank you sir.
Idnoble135

@Christembassy,

Jesus actually lived,
taught and concluded his ministry under the OT under
the levitical priesthood. NT
testament only took effect
after d resurection of Jesus,
So bro, Jesus in Matt23:23 was
talking to judaizers on issues bordering on judaism. We are
christians, nt judaizers

This is interesting.
Jesus lived and taugh under the old testament. Does that mean His teachings were old testament teachings?

@Gombs,
No need to go to dictionary. What you need is in the word:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift


I hope you know that is also called offering.
Jesus knew perfectly what He was saying. Please do not let anyone try to deceive you.

DrummaBoy and frosbel needed here.

idnoble135: @Christembassy, when i made my points clear on the other thread, i said i was not forcing it down anyone's throat. When you said you'd ride on with it, i told you, 'God is your strength'. That was the same thing i told Kunle.
I remember that in my first post on this thread, i talked about people who will start saying all manner of things with the assumption that i was a clergy. Now, whats it with the expose thread?
My friend, i am being calm online and still learning one or two things. There are questions i will ask that i will get no answer or it will take time for me to get one. I already asked Candour one of such questions, and i believe he's still finding me an answer. This is not pride pls. So i say what i am sure of. In the words of Luke, "those things which are most surely believed".
So please, make your point known clearly without letting emotions becloud your posts.
Thank you sir.
Idnoble135

when i responded to ur post in that other thread i really tot u were honest dat was y i WASTED my time to explained why d tithe fraud n d fraudstars should b tackled right, left n centre, i never for once tot u were what u've turned out to b. My brother, i don't know what christianity is to u, but i'm sure u know dat its nt nigerian politics. If u can nt try n b at least HONEST, it a pity, it u tot tithe threads av taken over Nl religion section, y jump at another scam promoting thread? I expected u to b d last person here, but u were d oga at d top. No problem, lets discuss, PLS TELL ME Y U INSIST ON THIS FRAUD CALLED TITHE? Do u know its a SIN TO pay tithe to sm1 who is NOT A LEVITE?

idnoble135: @Candour and Christembassy, i was not caught off guard by your replies. I've read it on other threads and i've pondered on it.
I believe that excuse is not valid. I guess everywhere we read in the bible something like... "and Jesus spoke to the crowd saying..." we should ignore it because we are not the crowd.
When he spoke to the disciples in Acts 1:8, he was not referring to us because he was speaking to the disciples. That excuse is very lame bro.
See, every word Jesus said might not apply to us directly but it will carry principles that are vital for us. You think all what Jesus was saying was just to make a point to the Pharisee alone? If it were, there would be no need to include it in the Bible because it is irrelevant to us. After all, John told us that there were alot of things He said and did that were not recorded. In the same John, he let us know he spoke only what He heard. And the Father's word in the Scriptures are meant for us.
Okay, look at Mathew 16, Jesus was speaking and He made it clear that the "great confession" which Peter uttered were not revealed by flesh and blood but by the Father.
By your theory, we can also conclude that all what God meant was only Peter can get revelation since Jesus was not talking to us nor the apostles but Peter.
But thats wrong, the principle there is there are things that we can not know via our natural human faculties. But God is telling us a principle here that He can reveal to us what we can in no way know via our carnal understanding.
Now to the verse...

“What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful
to tithe even the tiniest
income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe, yes, but do
not neglect the more
important things. Luke 11:42NLT

I guess we can overlook this also because Jesus was talking to the Pharisees right?
What a joke!

Hear Jesus in Matt 23:1-3
'Then spake Jesus to the multitudes, and t his disciples,2.Saying, the scribes and the pharisees sit in Moses seat:3.All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do ;but do not ye after their works: for they say and do not'

See the bolded. Are you telling me Jesus asked you to obey all the laws and commands the Scribes and Pharisees draw up? So what principle can you learn from the bolded?

My bro, wanting to stick to verse 23 because of tithe while ignoring verse 1-3 is the joke

Candour:

[s] Still same story bro. you can see the various types of offerings even from your dictionary. I repeat the offerings of Abraham are not in the same league like what you and i put into the offering bags on sunday. ThE widow Jesus talked about gave money for temple upkeep, she didnt delude herself thinking what she threw in was in the same class like what Abraham and the Isrealis offered on the altars.

Your 'offerings' on sundays are the same like what the widow and others threw into the temple treasury and are very different from offerings brought to the altars
[/s]

Quit beating around d bush...my question below is as above

"If tithes have been done away with, what about
offering?"

If you can't answer, I'd understand


Aside Isaac show where God instructed Abraham to give offerings but I can show you a carton of scriptures where God instructed Moses. Now if Moses' law is no longer in effect and since you say tithing is of the law, then why still give offerings?

@Christembassy,
I take exception to you calling me dishonest pls.
And you might join the discussion if you have dissenting views. Thanks!

Gombs: of·fer·ing noun \ˈȯ-f(ə-)riŋ, ˈä-\
: something that is given to God or a god as a part
of religious worship
: an act of giving a religious offering
: something that is available for sale or use

Full Definition of OFFERING
a : the act of one who offers
b : something offered; especially : a sacrifice
ceremonially offered as a part of worship
c : a contribution to the support of a church
: something offered for sale or patronage <latest
offerings of the leading novelists>
: a course of instruction or study

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/offering

How do you define bible words? With secular dictionary or with bible dictionary or concordance. What does offerings mean in Hebrews and Greek? Do you know offerings have like 4-5 meanings depending on context? Don't lemme expose you in the Hebrews and Greek meaning o.

Candour:

Hear Jesus in Matt 23:1-3
'Then spake Jesus to the multitudes, and t his disciples,2.Saying, the scribes and the pharisees sit in Moses seat:3.All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do ;but do not ye after their works: for they say and do not'

See the bolded. Are you telling me Jesus asked you to obey all the laws and commands the Scribes and Pharisees draw up? So what principle can you learn from the bolded?

My bro, wanting to stick to verse 23 because of tithe while ignoring verse 1-3 is the joke

Of course, there is a thing to learn. Except you did not see it. I could point out a number things to learn from that chapter.
The way you put it, makes it look like the chapter is even useless in the bible. Smh

Alwaystrue: @Gombs,
No need to go to dictionary. What you need is in the word:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift


I hope you know that is also called offering.
Jesus knew perfectly what He was saying. Please do not let anyone try to deceive you.

so what kind of gift do you think he was talking there? Jesus lived in Levitical times so pls tell, what kind of gift would you take to the altar where a priest is officiating? answer is Live animal or food offerings. Is that what you take to Church today?

What the widow offered is the exact thing we give as offering today

Alwaystrue: @Gombs,
No need to go to dictionary. What you need is in the word:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift


I hope you know that is also called offering.
Jesus knew perfectly what He was saying. Please do not let anyone try to deceive you.

when Jesus made dat statement there was no christianity, only judaism, it was still OT, Christ died gave d perfect offering(his blood) and brought in NT n christianity, in christianity, we are enjoined to offer our bodies as living sacrifice n d fruit of our lips. I told u , d money we give in church are contributions, whats so dif to udastand?

Alwaystrue:

All because of Tithes and Offerings.....LORD please have mercy!

it's truly a serious matter ma'am. And that's an understatement. Choi!

idnoble135:
Of course, there is a thing to learn. Except you did not see it. I could point out a number things to learn from that chapter.
The way you put it, makes it look like the chapter is even useless in the bible. Smh

Stop shaking your head. Do you do slave dealings today? Have you torn references to slave practices in your bible yet?

Learn to separate what was written to those under law and those under grace my bro.

Matt 23 was talking with respect to practice of Mosaic law

Candour:

Stop shaking your head. Do you do slave dealings today? Have you torn references to slave practices in your bible yet?

Learn to separate what was written to those under law and those under grace my bro.

Matt 23 was talking with respect to practice of Mosaic law

We already learnt that the LAW came through MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH came through JESUS CHRIST. Then why will Jesus be teaching on the law?
Also, i need your comment on the crucial point made in this post.

idnoble135: Lemme make a little contribution to the thread.
First, i would that, it be clear that i'm not a pastor or whatsoever anyone might think. The thinking of some as regards to the subject that anyone who agrees to such is brain washed or a pastor is shameful.
That point made, i'd add to what has been said that the subject is yet in existence and is valid.
My point comes from the word of the Master himself. The words of the Master is greater than the words of every one in the scriptures. His words can never fail.
And i yet discover that the Lord did not intend that tithe should go extinct.
We know the Lord is supreme and He is greater than Moses. The authority He commands is one that Moses did not have.
And we read of how the Master showed that when He brought the law of Moses to a wrap and introduced Kingdom principles (which the law was trying to do).
The master showed it here,

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in
danger of the judgment.’
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment. And whoever says
to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be
in danger of the council. But
whoever says, ‘You fool!’
shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22

Here, the Lord showed Supremacy when He said, BUT I SAY UNTO YOU....
Again, the Master said on another occassion,

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou
shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a
woman to lust after her hath
committed adultery with her
already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-29

Again, we see the Lord's supremacy when He used the phrase "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". The "BUT" showed He was bringing a change here.
But now, the Lord comes to the issue of tithe and behold what he said,
But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue
and every herb, and neglect
justice and the love of God.
These you ought to have
done, without neglecting the
others. Luke 11:42ESV

Is it not revealing? The Lord did not use the phrase, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". Instead, He said, These you ought to have
done. Thats one big reason to show the Lord never abolished it.
By this, we understand that the Lord never put an end to it, He commended it.
People ask why there was no record of tithe in the book of Acts of Apostles. And i tell them, the book of Acts shows the Church in its evolving stage. The Church as contained in Acts was not perfect, it was evolving. A good bible student will spot that maturity increased in the Church. The Church we read of in the early chapters is not the same in maturity as that we read of in the later chapters. The Church was still experiencing growth.
And the greatest reason why a thing should be done is not because the Apostles taught it but because the Master said so.
Tithing is not yet extinct. If the Master was aware of it and did not personally scrap it but approved it, i see no reason why some one should try to convince me other wise.
Shalom!

Gombs:

Quit beating around d bush...my question below is as above



If you can't answer, I'd understand


Aside Isaac show where God instructed Abraham to give offerings but I can show you a carton of scriptures where God instructed Moses. Now if Moses' law is no longer in effect and since you say tithing is of the law, then why still give offerings?

Why not go ahead and offer what Abram offered on the altar? Do you lack fuel and matches? Bring your ram and let's sacrifice

What you give today is what the widow gave, not what Abram did. You stop bastardising the word offering

idnoble135: @Christembassy,

This is interesting.
Jesus lived and taugh under the old testament. Does that mean His teachings were old testament teachings?

yes, some were.

christemmbassey: yes, some were.

try explaining this, then we will know what to bring up next.

idnoble135:
We already learnt that the LAW came through MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH came through JESUS CHRIST. Then why will Jesus be teaching on the law?
Also, i need your comment on the crucial point made in this post.

Gombs:

Quit beating around d bush...my question below is as above



If you can't answer, I'd understand


Aside Isaac show where God instructed Abraham to give offerings but I can show you a carton of scriptures where God instructed Moses. Now if Moses' law is no longer in effect and since you say tithing is of the law, then why still give offerings?

Question: "If tithes have been done away with, what about offering?"

Answer: Tithe is different from offerings in scriptures. They might be mentioned alongside but different. Offerings are also done away with.

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Hebrews 10:6

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law. Hebrews 10:8

...then why still give offerings?

What is this? What we give in worship gathering is 'contribution' NOT offerings. We don't give 'offerings' in worship gathering UNDER THE NT, such was by the law.

Romans 15:26 and 1 Corinthians 16:1 is the staring at you in the face:

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

If the NT Christians gave what was called 'offerings' when they gathered together, please kindly show us from the scriptures.

idnoble135:
We already learnt that the LAW came through MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH came through JESUS CHRIST. Then why will Jesus be teaching on the law?
Also, i need your comment on the crucial point made in this post.

When did Grace start? Before or after the death of Jesus? Your answer should clear up why he was teaching on the law.

The point you made is a play on words. I showed you Matt 23:1-3. He also said 'do all they ask you to' what do you make of that?

idnoble135: @Candour and Christembassy, i was not caught off guard by your replies. I've read it on other threads and i've pondered on it.
I believe that excuse is not valid. I guess everywhere we read in the bible something like... "and Jesus spoke to the crowd saying..." we should ignore it because we are not the crowd.
When he spoke to the disciples in Acts 1:8, he was not referring to us because he was speaking to the disciples. That excuse is very lame bro.
See, every word Jesus said might not apply to us directly but it will carry principles that are vital for us. You think all what Jesus was saying was just to make a point to the Pharisee alone? If it were, there would be no need to include it in the Bible because it is irrelevant to us. After all, John told us that there were alot of things He said and did that were not recorded. In the same John, he let us know he spoke only what He heard. And the Father's word in the Scriptures are meant for us.
Okay, look at Mathew 16, Jesus was speaking and He made it clear that the "great confession" which Peter uttered were not revealed by flesh and blood but by the Father.
By your theory, we can also conclude that all what God meant was only Peter can get revelation since Jesus was not talking to us nor the apostles but Peter.
But thats wrong, the principle there is there are things that we can not know via our natural human faculties. But God is telling us a principle here that He can reveal to us what we can in no way know via our carnal understanding.
Now to the verse...

“What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful
to tithe even the tiniest
income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe, yes, but do
not neglect the more
important things. Luke 11:42NLT

I guess we can overlook this also because Jesus was talking to the Pharisees right?
What a joke!

when Jesus sent d 12 on their 1st mission, he told them not to minister to d gentiles n d samaritans but only to jews, so how do u obey dat instructions today?

Candour:

When did Grace start? Before or after the death of Jesus? Your answer should clear up why he was teaching on the law.

The point you made is a play on words. I showed you Matt 23:1-3. He also said 'do all they ask you to' what do you make of that?

Interesting.... When Jesus touched the leper in mathew 8, He was following the law right?
When the law did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned in John 8, He was following the law right?

christemmbassey: when Jesus sent d 12 on their 1st mission, he told them not to minister to d gentiles n d samaritans but only to jews, so how do u obey dat instructions today?

then all the teachings Jesus ever gave before the cross were for the Jews since He already declared that He was sent to the lost house of israel right?
See confusion!

^ A teaching is coming soon from me, it will be titled: "Grace in the midst of the Law". Grace and truth came by Jesus, Law was given my Moses. Many Christians think Christ came to give us MORE LAWS. NO! It was already given by Moses, Christ came and was born when the dispensation of the law was still in force\effect\active. Grace is NOT a teaching, it a person - Jesus Christ. The more you know Christ, the more the Mosaic law fade away in your life.

idnoble135:
Interesting.... When Jesus touched the leper in mathew 8, He was following the law right?
When the law did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned in John 8, He was following the law right?

Really??

So what did his cross achieve then? Why did he still need to die since the new covenant of Grace had already started?

idnoble135:
then all the teachings Jesus ever gave before the cross were for the Jews since He already declared that He was sent to the lost house of israel right?
See confusion!

No!!! Under the Law, Jesus was born into and under the dispensation of the law still in force. His teachings are His will that will take effect INTO THE NEW COVENANT that will take effect AFTER His death. Matthew to John is NOT the New Covenant.

Goshen360: ^ A teaching is coming soon from me, it will be titled: "Grace in the midst of the Law". Grace and truth came by Jesus, Law was given my Moses. Many Christians think Christ came to give us MORE LAWS. NO! It was already given by Moses, Christ came and was born when the dispensation of the law was still in force\effect\active. Grace is NOT a teaching, it a person - Jesus Christ. The more you know Christ, the more the Mosaic law fade away in your life.

Hmhmmm.... I do not follow the Mosaic law. Relax, thats what the discussion was swerved into. I'm a believer of grace.

Candour:

Really??

So what did his cross achieve then? Why did he still need to die since the new covenant of Grace had already started?

Like Goshen said, Grace is a person,. Its beyond just what we recieve. It is Jesus personified.
Now, Jesus was not going to bring grace to himself at the cross. He went there to get it for us. So Jesus on earth was already manifesting grace even before the cross because he had no sin, and had a direct link with the Father.
Now can we swerve it back? The discussion got here by you trying to show me that Jesus was teaching Law. He was not!
Think you need to study the teachings of Jesus.
But my view, my conviction, has been made clear.

idnoble135:
Hmhmmm.... I do not follow the Mosaic law. Relax, thats what the discussion was swerved into. I'm a believer of grace.

Then you should know that Grace is not a continuation to obey the Mosaic law. NO?

Goshen360:

No!!! Under the Law, Jesus was born into and under the dispensation of the law still in force. His teachings are His will that will take effect INTO THE NEW COVENANT that will take effect AFTER His death. Matthew to John is NOT the New Covenant.

Did Jesus manifest grace on earth or not? Read a bit of my comment on candour's reply.