olabowale:

@KunleOshob:MashaAllah. E ma ya see o. Alhamdulillah. Maybe I should be talking to your boss or the head of your church. Maybe I can have some honest answer. Remember that you were the one who came to me, calling me terrorist, because i am a muslim. If America can't scare me, how do you think you in Abuja or whereever you may reside will be my concern? I depend, 100% on Allah my Creator. I have survived by His protection alone, with any other protection needed. Orishi ri shi e. Next time I will know not to respond to you.
However, if you accept guidance, you will be rewarded with a station in paradise where there will not be any inconvenience and worries. The choice is clear, but have to make it on your own. This is my advice to you, Mr. Worker.

For your fullest information i am self employed, the fact that i told you i am employed does not in anyway mean i work for anybody, (another demonstration of your shallow understanding of issues). And as david said pleeeaase i beg you in the name of Allah carry your comments and opinions to another thread and stop spamming this one.

@Davidylan:

olabowale please kindly do us a favor and stop posting here again. any further spamming of our beloved threads will prompt us to report you for spam and unsolicited plagiarism.

If you can't honestly answer a direct question without long meaningless epistles then please stay out.

As if David knows what honesty his, if it falls on him! David who has avoided to tell me the essence of Mark 12 Verse 29, in light of Trinity. I wanna see if this very verse is in agreement with it or not. You've tapped danced around it, doing the jiggle bug dance or is it the harlem shuffle that it becomes obvious that you can't even trust yourself, about Trinity!

You remind me of the New Yorker's magazine cover's caricaturing of the Obamas. Most of us were very ashamed for the populace not because of whats on the cover. But because they Bubba's and the ignorants will never get the satire of it all. Get up man and grow a spine; answer the Mark 12 Verse 29 and tell me if it talks for or against Trinity. My take is that it destroys Trinity to nothingness. Whats your take david?

You ask me for Faith, which is Iman, I explained it. Go and get eye glasses if you can't see it. You need somebody to read it to you. Its in there. The same thread where you asked it. And I struggle "Jihad," against all kind of evil, including that may be in me. And then i struggle towards improvement of myself and doing good for myself and others. All is for the pleasure of God. David, a word of advice: Aguntan to ba baja rin a je igbee. Don't copy bad manners from anyone.

The Church View of the church

A church is a building that is used for assembly of members of that church, which teaches and practices doctrines, generally determined, and enforced by a master religious organization. The function of the individual church varies according to the edicts of the controlling religious leaders, but follows general guidelines. The indoctrination of the membership in the beliefs of the master religion is a prime function, with absolute loyalty strongly emphasized. This is accomplished with weekly meetings during which the membership is indoctrinated in and conditioned to follow the rules of the religion by a leader variously called a pastor, priest, G.O, evangelist, bishop or minister.
Members are expected to pay a certain percentage of their income to maintain the church building, pay the salaries and living expenses of the church employees and other costs related to the promotion and functions of the master religion. Seldom is even a small percentage of church income and effort used to serve the community in which the church is situated or the world in general. Most civic projects are done to present a token image of charity, which is aimed at attracting new members to increase the power of the church in size and financial holdings.


The early Christian( Bible) View of the Church

A group of like-minded people who live in a communal setting and sacrifice all physical belongings to support a work totally devoted to charity. There is a staff, whose job is to feed and clothe the poor and infirmed, and many have the power to perform miracles. One basic law, love for one another, is the guiding principle. Pompous appearance, righteous pronouncements, and the advertising of charitable acts are condemned. There is no command to support any building based organization whose purpose is to serve only the interests of those members accepted into the membership. Pastors, pulpits, and pews were not mentioned, and neither weekly meetings, nor any other scheduled meetings were held or commanded. Those called out of society and into the first church donated all their earthly goods to the group as a whole and it was clearly stated none of the called were in need of anything.
Virtually nothing, which is accepted practice in the modern church, can either be found or supported in scripture, from the building the church is located in to the methods used to support that church. Neither the collection plate, the enforced gathering on Sunday, the open prayer, prosperity teaching, compulsory tithing, the party behind the pulpit, nor the pulpit itself bear any resemblance to the practice of the first church. Miracles, prophecy, and healing were common amongst the members of the first church.

Passage 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:
13 These people are false apostles. They are deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve.

What Is Religion?

The word religion appears only 4 times in the Bible, three of those times in direct reference to the religion of the Jews. The one time it refers to religion in general is in this verse:
♦ "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

Does the above verse sound like the standard practice of today’s Christian churches or does it sound more like this verse?

♦ “ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” (Romans 16:17)

What Was Jesus final instruction to Peter (the founder of the church)?

      After the resurrection, Jesus confronted Peter, and with triple emphasis, gave him a very simple and specific command, to feed the people. 
♦  John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
      The word "feed" is taken from two different words in these verses.  In verses 15 and 17 the word translated is bosko, pronounced bos'-ko; to pasture; by extension to, fodder; reflexively, to graze.  In verse 16 it is taken from poimaino, pronounced poy-mah'-ee-no; to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, supervisor).  Therefore, the commission is to feed and lead, with double emphasis on the directive to literally feed the followers.  Does this not clearly indicate that Jesus clearly chose Peter as the founder of the first church, and is it not obvious that this would also be the focus of the church? Helping the poor and indigent is at the very core of the first church’s focus and practices but today that practise is completely absent or relegated to the back ground.

@ poster

U know i'm also thinking along the same line. Do u know dat is d part of the reasons i've not been in church for some time now since December 29, 2007.

Because i can't stand and bear it when so-called pastors tweak the Word of God and pour words into the heads of their members so they can hypnotuze them to empty their pockets into the offering box. I can't stand when social stratification is introduced into the church and the rich segregate themselves from the poor contrary to the love which is the core of the teachings of Christ. I wonder if there is any more love in the church.

And these days I'm no longer surprised when i see a xtian do something wrong but surprised when i see them do good. There's this recent story where a deacon from a church which has a name similar to a government corporation where u register ur company 'connected' a sister from a church which sometime ago ban the use of TV by members with a married pastor from a church which wants to have '1000' branches on a street. As if that is not enough a sin, the sister started 'spending weekends' with pastor immediately after introduction until the bubble busted before the wedding. I bet u'll expect pastor to be remorseful and seek forgiveness but NO. He wanted to deal with his wife for destroying his plans. The pastor was reported to his church but the church pretended like nothing happened. Can u imagine this nonsense happening right under the nose of so-called prominent 'righteous' and 'spirit-filled' church leaders.

So tell me where is the love?

KunleOshob:

Helping the poor and indigent is at the very core of the first church’s focus and practices but today that practise is completely absent or relegated to the back ground.

, Or even inverted completely. exacerbating the poverty of the wretched.

If the true christian gospel had not been corrupted and the church was being administered based on the fundermentlal pricinples and teachings of our lord Jesus Christ truely this world would be a much better place. If real love was being practised most of the conflicts and sufferings going on in several parts of the world today would not even be happening. The truth is that the church collectively as failed to spread and implement the true gospel of Christ. Church leaders today are just to self centred. The early church for instance used church offerings to help the needy today church leaders claim that offerings is meant to run the church(which mainly taking care of the pastor)They don't evenstop at offerings alone they extort tithes and manipulate thaks offerrings, special offerings seed sowing e.t.c

KunleOshob:

If the true christian gospel had not been corrupted and the church was being administered based on the fundermentlal pricinples and teachings of our lord Jesus Christ truely this world would be a much better place. If real love was being practised most of the conflicts and sufferings going on in several parts of the world today would not even be happening. The truth is that the church collectively as failed to spread and implement the true gospel of Christ. Church leaders today are just to self centred. The early church for instance used church offerings to help the needy today church leaders claim that offerings is meant to run the church(which mainly taking care of the pastor)They don't evenstop at offerings alone they extort tithes and manipulate thaks offerrings, special offerings seed sowing e.t.c

The question on my mind now is - What does one do?

We know the situation but how should one react? Should we go on a crusade against these churches? Or should we just mind our own business? Our own business being serving christ. Is there any point in denouncing them as not True christians when every denomination and their grandfather is already denouncing everyone else as not true christian? How would you set yourself apart?

It is one thing to moan and complain and produce arguments but it quite another thing to propose a plan of action.

Pastor AIO:

The question on my mind now is - What does one do?

We know the situation but how should one react? Should we go on a crusade against these churches? Or should we just mind our own business? Our own business being serving christ. Is there any point in denouncing them as not True christians when every denomination and their grandfather is already denouncing everyone else as not true christian? How would you set yourself apart?

It is one thing to moan and complain and produce arguments but it quite another thing to propose a plan of action.

Well i believe every true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ (note i did not use the word christian) should go back to the bible and study the teachings of Christ again which was centred on love for God and love for our fellow men. In everything we do we should ask ourselves what would Jesus do? As believers we should learn to learn from the master (Jesus) himself and not Just base our knowledge on what our church leaders are telling us, cos they are human and are also subject to biase and human errors.

?

Pastor AIO:

The question on my mind now is - What does one do?

Nothing.

Pastor AIO:

We know the situation but how should one react?

Don't react. Just observe. Share your concerns with Him, pray if you like. Mourne, lament even. But be very still and in His presence. That I believe is where everything is to be found.

Pastor AIO:

Should we go on a crusade against these churches?

No. They have their place in the eternal scheme of things. Everything is under control. And without His bidding and hence empowering, even with the best intention it is best not too.

Pastor AIO:

Or should we just mind our own business? Our own business being serving christ.

Exactly.
In truth any action you take must be clearly instructed by the Master.

Pastor AIO:

Is there any point in denouncing them as not True christians when every denomination and their grandfather is already denouncing everyone else as not true christian?

No. And it would be an essentially fruitless task. In fact, it could well be counter-productive to your own walk. You'll in all liklihood add to the mindless cacaphony out there and potentially tire/frustrate yourself doing so.The Lord knows those who are His. He will build His church.

Pastor AIO:

How would you set yourself apart?

You don't have to. He will. All you have to do is "Come out of her", as He says to His own. Leave what you percieve to be false religion and set your sights on Him. Don't worry about the labels, anyone can call themselves anything. He knows, His church.

Pastor AIO:

It is one thing to moan and complain and produce arguments but it quite another thing to propose a plan of action.

And what do you suggest? A plan of action - of your own devising anyway - is the last thing you want. That could very easily lead to the building of the very thing you lament about. Many denominations and sects started that way. A little truth, a small revelation, some structure around it and boom, next thing you're G.O'ing your own sect. Careful sir.

God bless
TV

@TV01
Brilliant summation

kunle,i quite agree with you,let all of us study the bible well,not to depend on any pastor to teach you the bible.We have the oppurtunity to have personal bible,it was not so in the old days,you are only required to listen to the bible been read by the priest only opn sabbath day,but today even my younger sister of 10 years has her own bible.So let all of us start reading our bibles and yoyu will discover that alot has been hidden from us by the so call men of God.

Bump!

God! give us men after your own heart. Let him that have ears, hear what the Spirit says to the Church of Jesus.