ashieduplus: I have spoken only once on Nairaland about speaking in tongues, probably because from experience I know that people hardly ever change their beliefs, more so when these beliefs, however erroneous can be backed up by experiences and not by reason. I have been there before, you see. I have spoken in tongues, prophesied, sown seeds, been slain in the spirit... name it. It was only when I began to STUDY the bible in detail, putting my education to good use that I discovered the truth. Now that I know better I count all those things as loss.

Your post showed clearly you did not study scripture well. We do not use education as a baseline to study scripture.We study scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit.Using the argument of experience is also weak because so many biblical experiences are debatable because they defy human logic,yet we accept them based on the Christian FAITH.Many of such experiences are:

1. The virgin birth.
2.Jesus miracles.
3.Peter's shadow healing the sick.
4.Paul's conversion story.
5.Paul's visits to the third heavens(OBE).
6.John was put in a hot boiling pot of oil,yet he came out unscathed. and so many others numerous to mention.

Jesus only used 12 unlearned men to turn the world upside down so it baffles me your hype about education here.You need to understand that the Kingdom of God is the way God does His things. We do not reason God's word based on human logic,philosophy and education.We reason with God based on the platform of His word.The so called experiences you had,if they don't line up with God's word,then best forget it.

Now, for those who use 1st Corinthians chapters 12 to 14 as their excuse for engaging in this unbiblical practice, please note:

1. When a word (like "unknown" in 1st Corinthians 14 vs 2) is italicized in a translated work such as the bible, it means such a word was not in the original text but is added for clarity. In other words, the word "unknown" as used in 1st Corinthians should ordinarily not be there but was inserted by translators of the KJV 1611. No wonder in the NIV translation the word "unknown" is absent in those same verses.

2. As part of my course in the university, I studied the evolution of the English language and can authoritatively say that "tongue" as used in 1611 was just another synonym for language. However, it was more specific as it con notated "dialect". Therefore, what the translators wanted us to know was that any language the corinthian xtians did not understand was simply "unknown" to them. While this was clear in the Greek, we English speakers would have found it difficult to grasp, so the learned KJV translators inserted "unknown" to make it easier for us. It is unfortunate that much of christendom has stumbled over this single word.

Apart form point 1 you raised, which is quite true.It is clear you don't know what you are talking about in point 2. Paul talked about tongues of angels,Did you really understand what Paul meant by ANGELIC LANGUAGE? maybe the angelic tongue was unknown to the Corinthians and the human race but never unknown to God.

^Gbam! Hi bidam, doing my research, i learnt that tongue stopped after the apostles. Why becos during the "dark ages" when men believed that God cannot speak to no man except thru the pope. If you claim to manifest the gift of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues and interpretation, you were excommunicated or put to death, so becos of the continued absence of tongues that is why we see a lot of opposition to tongues in various forms.

1 cor 13
8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([d]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].



From the above verse we have it that tongues (plural, the gift that enable one speak in an understandable language he is not intrinsic to their education) will seize. The question people who open their mouth to say anything that comes out should ask is- 1)when did it stop? or

2)when will it stop if it hasn't? or

3)was talking gibberish ever a gift of the Spirit?

4)Of what purpose is speaking in tongue in this age?

5)of what purpose was it in the days of the Apostles especially on the day of Pentecost?

hisblud: ^Gbam! Hi bidam, doing my research, i learnt that tongue stopped after the apostles. Why becos during the "dark ages" when men believed that God cannot speak to no man except thru the pope. If you claim to manifest the gift of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues and interpretation, you were excommunicated or put to death, so becos of the continued absence of tongues that is why we see a lot of opposition to tongues in various forms.

Very true sir! The dark ages was really a silent age. But God is not silent.Thank God for the fresh outpouring of His Spirit.Charles .F. Parham was known as the father of Pentecost. He gave his life to Christ at a tender age,knew the scripture by heart while growing,received a call to pioneer God's work.

God visited his ministry due to his faithfulness and obedience with healing the sick.He was also miraculously healed by God of a heart disease that defies medical treatment.His son who was also on a death bed was healed miraculously.His healing ministry was very controversial to those who misunderstood it.(1900).

He lived in a time when physicians as a whole stood contrary to the gospel.It was his personal faith that inspired him to throw away all his pills.The truth about divine healing were rare in those era,though people like Alexander dowie and maria woodword etter had tremendous success in that area.People also claimed parham's power to heal was of the devil.Lol.

Well he opened a bible school he called bethel where he taught students on repentance,conversion,sanctification and healing. The school was free for all believers who desire a walk with God.

It was during the course of giving students an assignment to do A EXHAUSTIVE STUDY ON THE BOOK OF ACTS OF THE APOSTLES ON THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that they came up with a new discovery. Every recipient baptized by the Holy Spirit in the book of acts spoke in other tongues.

Later a revival broke out in that bible school of 75 students, it started with Agnes ozman who told parham to lay hands on her. The supernatural power of God fell on her and she began to speak in Chinese.She couldn't speak English for 3 days.The rest they say is history.

shdemidemi:
ask is- 1)when did it stop? or
2)when will it stop if it hasn't? or
3)was talking gibberish ever a gift of the Spirit?
4)Of what purpose is speaking in tongue in this age?
5)of what purpose was it in the days of the Apostles especially on the day of Pentecost?

i think the question should be

1. Why should it stop?

2. why should it stop if it hasn't? or


3) did saved man understand the things of God fully? If not why? It sounded foolish to his mind just as tongue talking a gift of the Spirit was gibberish to his mind?


4)Of what purpose is the work of satan on the believer in this age?


5)of what purpose was it in the days of the Apostles especially AFTER the day of Pentecost?

Another thing- do you know that love in 1 cor 13 is AGAPE love not eros nor phileo love?

Have you fully manifested this love as its stated clearly up there?

If you have not, then has the PERFECT really come?

Have you known the depth, height, breadth and width of AGAPE love of Christ or are you still praying for more enlightenment of Agape love?

If you have not, then has the PERFECT really come?

Has tongue, prophesy and knowledge thus ceased?

hisblud:

i think the question should be

1. Why should it stop?

2. why should it stop if it hasn't? or


3) did saved man understand the things of God fully? If not why? It sounded foolish to his mind just as tongue talking a gift of the Spirit was gibberish to his mind?


4)Of what purpose is the work of satan on the believer in this age?


5)of what purpose was it in the days of the Apostles especially AFTER the day of Pentecost?

1) because the bible says it would
1 cor 13-8b
'as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].'

2) because it was a temporal manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to men - this gift of speaking known languages

3)sorry can't draw meaning from the third question

4) The purpose of satan is to destroy but the purpose of God supersede his antics. satan lost the battle already, we were set free from his 'Egypt' on the cross.

5)It initiated a new move of God. An opportunity for the word of God to be preached to those who speak languages different from those 120 that were present in the upper room.

shdemidemi:

1) because the bible says it would
1 cor 13-8b
'as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].'

2) because it was a temporal manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to men - this gift of speaking known languages

3)sorry can't draw meaning from the third question

4) The purpose of satan is to destroy but the purpose of God supersede his antics. satan lost the battle already, we were set free from his 'Egypt' on the cross.

5)It initiated a new move of God. An opportunity for the word of God to be preached to those who speak languages different from those 120 that were present in the upper room.

bro, the problem here is ur LACK OF UNDASTANDING OF DAT VERY SIMPLE WORD 'WILL'. Pls go and study the meaning of d word 'WILL'. God bless.

shdemidemi:

1) because the bible says it would
1 cor 13-8b
'as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].'

correct! Now the question is WHEN?
-Is it after the last apostles dies?

- when the pope rules from rome and he mandates all revelation apart from his mouth as void?

- when the whole earth has heard the gospel and Christ returns?

- when the Spirit ceases to be in the believer?

-when we see Christ face to face?

Which?

2) because it was a temporal manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to men - this gift of speaking known languages

ok if its for known language ONLY, today as missionaries go out the dont need that "automatic, mysterious" ability to speak in tongues anymore since it temporarily ended and revert to learn first the local language b4 preaching?

3)sorry can't draw meaning from the third question

quoting what bidam wrote above,

1. The virgin birth.

2.Jesus miracles.

3.Peter's shadow healing the sick.

4.Paul's conversion story.

5.Paul's visits to the third heavens(OBE).

6.John was put in a hot boiling pot of oil,yet he came out unscathed. and so many others numerous to mention.

were they just things you readily accepted or in God's mercy, opened your eyes of understanding to accept them? So also the gifts of the Spirit even tongues which we are to ask God to do same with tongues.

4) The purpose of satan is to destroy but the purpose of God supersede his antics. satan lost the battle already, we were set free from his 'Egypt' on the cross.

Yes, i agree. But is the devil not wearing the saints with his deception and unedifying things today as he was doing in the past?

5)It initiated a new move of God. An opportunity for the word of God to be preached to those who speak languages different from those 120 that were present in the upper room.

now AFTER that episode, for example, what purpose did cornelius and his household acheive by speaking in tongues? How many people believed the gospel when they spoke?

Finally, care to consider my questions on agape love?

christemmbassey: bro, the problem here is ur LACK OF UNDASTANDING OF DAT VERY SIMPLE WORD 'WILL'. Pls go and study the meaning of d word 'WILL'. God bless.

How does this statement help you or anyone viewing this topic? Get off the high horse bro, what better way to evade the truth.

hisblud: correct! Now the question is WHEN?

You are throwing my question back at me, I would have thought you would attempt the question.

hisblud: -Is it after the last apostles?
- when the pope rules from rome and he mandates all revelation apart from his mouth as void?

- when the whole earth has heard the gospel and Christ returns?

- when the Spirit ceases to be in the believer?

-when we see Christ face to face?

None of all the above bro, it stopped about the time Paul was actually writing this epistle to this carnal church of Corinth.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The man spoke about 'prophecies', 'tongues' and 'knowledge'

Moving to verse 9, he went on about the two gifts that are pertinent to this gospel of Christ- 'knowledge and teaching/prophesy'

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

He says even these two gifts are given unto man in parts

hisblud:
ok if its for known language ONLY, today as missionaries go out the dont need that "automatic, mysterious" ability to speak in tongues anymore since it temporarily ended?

Missionaries would have to learn yoruba to come speak it in Nigeria my friend.

hisblud: Yes, i agree. But is the devil not wearing the saints with his deception and unedifying things today as he was doing in the past?

You don't need to speak in tongue to put satan in his place, all you need is knowing/understanding the truth.

hisblud:
now AFTER that episode, for example, what purpose did cornelius and his household acheive by speaking in tongues? How many people believed the gospel when they spoke?

Ok see it this way. Peter, contrary to his own desires, is forced by God to go up to the house of Cornelius. And you remember the last thing Peter said as he goes through the door: "Cornelius, you know it is an unlawful thing for me, a Jew, to come into the house of another nation. But God has shown me." In other words, there was a distinct divine purpose in Peter coming up to the house of Cornelius. Now, as he is preaching and is probably expounding about Jesus of Nazareth, and how He had come to be Israel's Messiah and Redeemer and King, I imagine as Peter was laying all of this out, in the back of his mind he was thinking, "Why am I giving this to Gentiles?" He had no idea that there was something moving in God's purposes that He, God, was now going to go out to the Gentile world.

Now in order for God to prove to these seven Jews that were with Peter and may be Peter himself He was doing something totally different than had ever been done before, what does He do? He proves it with these Gentiles speaking other languages. Not just the Latin, in which they had grown and probably practiced. Maybe not even just Greek either.

shdemidemi: None of all the above bro, it stopped about the time Paul was actually writing this epistle to this carnal church of Corinth.

You really disappointed me with this statement.
Anyway you won't be the first nor the last people who have misquoted the scriptures. No wonder why different doctrine keeps show face today in christendom.

What can I say at this perillius time 'than Father please keep reveal your word to your people.'

Emusan:

You really disappointed me with this statement.
Anyway you won't be the first nor the last people who have misquoted the scriptures. No wonder why different doctrine keeps show face today in christendom.

What can I say at this perillius time 'than Father please keep reveal your word to your people.'

disappoint you! what have you or even me got to do with this? I have shown something clearly written in the scriptures but many would rather pitch their tent on tradition and fables. Many doctrines have surfaced because of various spiritual gifts (healing, tongues, prosperity, OBE etc.) many claim they have access to.

Shdemidemi,

I'm with you on this one. But please realise that no matter what you say these tongue speaking xtians may never change inspite of the evidence. All we can do is tell them the truth in love so we can absolve ourselves @ the judgement seat of Christ...
I was a Pentecostal up untill February this year. Then I stumbled upon an article on the interet that shook me to my foundations. After prayer and much crying God led me to the truth. Now I am simply a xtian, nothing more.
Whatever the case we must keep fighting against all these dangerous doctrines e.g. Word of Faith, Tithe paying, prosperity gospel, speaking in tongues, holyghost fire prayers, special anointing, e.t.c.
God be with you.

shdemidemi:

You are throwing my question back at me, I would have thought you would attempt the question.
-Is it after the last apostles?



None of all the above bro, it stopped about the time Paul was actually writing this epistle to this carnal church of Corinth.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The man spoke about 'prophecies', 'tongues' and 'knowledge'

Moving to verse 9, he went on about the two gifts that are pertinent to this gospel of Christ- 'knowledge and teaching/prophesy'

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

He says even these two gifts are given unto man in parts

in verse 8, the words fail and cease have the word katargeo which is to be entirely idle and the tense used is a future passive indicative thus pointing to a future event. Now that future event will be known as definite as perfect as knowing the fullness of Agape love that he paul was stating above. Uptil now Agape love is still being prayed for that we should know it in its fullness. Until that time, prophecy, tongues and knowledge continues. In the carnal corinth, he paul went on to still emphasis that TONGUES should not be forbidden and the tense used is present active imperative. If it were a mere known language, why would he admonish so? It means its possible to forbid as peeps here are doing.

Missionaries would have to learn yoruba to come speak it in Nigeria my friend.

so the Spirit in them has greater power than the Spirit in our missionary that He cannot do miraculous speaking of the gospel as @ the 120! But they have to learn by rote.

You don't need to speak in tongue to put satan in his place, all you need is knowing/understanding the truth.

why did paul and jude emphasis building up oneself by praying in the spirit?

Ok see it this way. Peter, contrary to his own desires, is forced by God to go up to the house of Cornelius. And you remember the last thing Peter said as he goes through the door: "Cornelius, you know it is an unlawful thing for me, a Jew, to come into the house of another nation. But God has shown me." In other words, there was a distinct divine purpose in Peter coming up to the house of Cornelius. Now, as he is preaching and is probably expounding about Jesus of Nazareth, and how He had come to be Israel's Messiah and Redeemer and King, I imagine as Peter was laying all of this out, in the back of his mind he was thinking, "Why am I giving this to Gentiles?" He had no idea that there was something moving in God's purposes that He, God, was now going to go out to the Gentile world.

Now in order for God to prove to these seven Jews that were with Peter and may be Peter himself He was doing something totally different than had ever been done before, what does He do? He proves it with these Gentiles speaking other languages. Not just the Latin, in which they had grown and probably practiced. Maybe not even just Greek either.

so you agree its not for gospel preaching ONLY, but for confirmation of the work of God. But wait it was jews not greeks, so if they it were mere language, the Spirit would have spoken hebrew just like the 120 did to those different tribes in jerusalem as confirmation.

ashieduplus: Shdemidemi,

I'm with you on this one. But please realise that no matter what you say these tongue speaking xtians may never change inspite of the evidence. All we can do is tell them the truth in love so we can absolve ourselves @ the judgement seat of Christ...
I was a Pentecostal up untill February this year. Then I stumbled upon an article on the interet that shook me to my foundations. After prayer and much crying God led me to the truth. Now I am simply a xtian, nothing more.
Whatever the case we must keep fighting against all these dangerous doctrines e.g. Word of Faith, Tithe paying, prosperity gospel, speaking in tongues, holyghost fire prayers, special anointing, e.t.c.
God be with you.

hi could you point out the link for us and lets analyse it based on scripture not head knowledge but in love of God in giving us the Spirit.

There are some funny facts about the Azusa revival which the pentecostals lay claim to as thier origin.

1. When the "revivalists" received the "gift of tongues" they actually thought they were speaking real earth languages. So where did the argument of angel-speak come from?

2. Subsequently, pentecostal congregations sent out missionaries armed with these new tongues to evangelize the far corners of the globe. After all, some of them could speak Cantonese, right? Wrong! They failed woefully.

3. It was only after the evangelism debacle that pentecostal theologians began to talk about Angelese, private prayer language and their other pet deceptions.

ashieduplus: Shdemidemi,

I'm with you on this one. But please realise that no matter what you say these tongue speaking xtians may never change inspite of the evidence. All we can do is tell them the truth in love so we can absolve ourselves @ the judgement seat of Christ...
[size=16pt] I was a Pentecostal up untill February this year. Then I stumbled upon an article on the interet that shook me to my foundations[/size]. After prayer and much crying God led me to the truth. Now I am simply a xtian, nothing more.
Whatever the case we must keep fighting against all these dangerous doctrines e.g. Word of Faith, Tithe paying, prosperity gospel, speaking in tongues, holyghost fire prayers, special anointing, e.t.c.
God be with you.

So it was an internet article that destroyed your christian testimony.Chei..Devil wicked o..

You see why you should strictly rely on your bible and the Holy Spirit. It is a shame that one day with an article should destroy what took you years to grow and mature in.Maybe your foundation was probably shaky to begin with.

ashieduplus: There are some funny facts about the Azusa revival which the pentecostals lay claim to as thier origin.

1. When the "revivalists" received the "gift of tongues" they actually thought they were speaking real earth languages. So where did the argument of angel-speak come from?

2. Subsequently, pentecostal congregations sent out missionaries armed with these new tongues to evangelize the far corners of the globe. After all, some of them could speak Cantonese, right? Wrong! They failed woefully.

3. It was only after the evangelism debacle that pentecostal theologians began to talk about Angelese, private prayer language and their other pet deceptions.

Can you quote your source?

Bidam: Can you quote your source?

wish he post the link.

hisblud: ^Gbam! Hi bidam, doing my research, i learnt that tongue stopped after the apostles. Why becos during the "dark ages" when men believed that God cannot speak to no man except thru the pope. If you claim to manifest the gift of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues and interpretation, you were excommunicated or put to death, so becos of the continued absence of tongues that is why we see a lot of opposition to tongues in various forms.

Hmm, below is a support to what i wrote about how tongues ceased in the early centuries by no other person but John Wesely who most christian admire his prayer life.

John Wesley:

The Rev. John Wesley, M.A., preacher, author, teacher and reformer, whose name is treasured in the hearts of believers ever since the Great Revival, would be a competent judge as to whether the miraculous gifts should be in the church today. This is what he says: "It does not appear that these extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were common in the church for more than two or three centuries. We seldom hear of them after that fatal period when the Emperor Constantine called himself a Christian, and from a vain imagination of promoting the Christian cause, thereby heaped riches and power and honour upon the Christians in general, but in particular upon Christian clergy. From this time, they almost totally ceased; very few instances of the kind being found. The cause of this was not, as has been vulgarly supposed, because there is no more occasion for them because all the world were become Christian. This is a miserable mistake, not a twentieth part of it was then nominally Christian. The real cause was: the love of many, almost all Christians, socalled, was waxed cold. The Christians had no more of the Spirit of Christ than the other heathen; the Son of Man when He came to examine His Church could hardly find faith. This was the real cause why the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian Church; because the Christians were turned heathen again, and had only a dead form left ...

The grand reason why the miraculous gifts were so soon withdrawn was not that faith and holiness were wellnigh lost, but that dry, formal, orthodox men began even then to ridicule whatever gifts they had not themselves, and to decry them all as either madness or impostures."

notice the bolded, could it be the reason on this forum and all over the world atheism etc are more vocal because of ridiculing of tongues. Check this link to read others that we have chosen to follow their footsteps http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/testimony-great-revivalists

shdemidemi:

disappoint you! what have you or even me got to do with this? I have shown something clearly written in the scriptures but many would rather pitch their tent on tradition and fables. Many doctrines have surfaced because of various spiritual gifts (healing, tongues, prosperity, OBE etc.) many claim they have access to.

this is a result of denying the real thing, what do you get its counterfeit. So the only way of reviving the original is here

Mighty Promises Fulfilled

This cumulative evidence from the Day of Pentecost to today proves the truth of the words of our Lord inMARK 16:15-18:"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Are we denying what Christ said? No we ain't

Didnt all these happen all through the book of Acts? of course they did.

But at some point the great Apostle himself fell ill among many sufferings he went through for the sake of the gospel. The man was not a criminal of any sort, but he had his share of sufferings that happens to be a byproduct of this gospel.

Just before he died, he made Timothy aware of his fate (he was about to die)and he told Timothy to teach other people about the gospel of Christ. Miracles, tongues and all these signs that unbelievers seek were no more the issue, Paul knew Timothy was going to be killed as well. He wasn't telling him about miracles or how to escape death but he was concerned about the good news of Christ. Timothy was also beheaded in no time for the sake of the gospel.

We must come to realise that the scripture is not stagnant, it is a progressive revelation. Hence, what was anathema in the old could be the chosen in the new. The Jews are in so much unbelief even till date because they are still waiting for a sign but the scripture says the gentiles seek after wisdom. It is shocking that christians today are so hungry for a new move of God that trusting God to be in control of our situations becomes difficult. We are looking for that man who can dream it, or the one who claims to have a direct link with God.

shdemidemi: Are we denying what Christ said? No we ain't

Didnt all this happen all through the book of Acts? of course they did.

But at some point the great Apostle himself fell ill among many sufferings he went through for the sake of the gospel. The man was not a criminal of any sort, but he had his share of sufferings that happens to be a byproduct of this gospel.

Just before he died, he made Timothy aware of his fate (he was about to die)and he told Timothy to teach other people about the gospel of Christ. Miracles, tongues and all these signs that unbelievers seek were no more the issue, Paul knew Timothy was going to be killed as well. He wasn't telling him about miracles or how to escape death but he was concerned about the good news of Christ.

And you were the scribe penning everything down when the conversation was going on between Paul and Timothy abi SMH!!

Bidam: And you were the scribe penning everything down when the conevrsation was going on between Paul and Timothy abi SMH!!

2 Tim
2 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.


ENDURE...When do you endure?

You endure when there is pain. He didn't tell him command fire, or pray this and that or fast or speak in tongues. He says ENDURE hardness like a soldier at war.

STUDY....

That is the most important tool Paul emphasised and stressed about.

TEACH

When its convenient and when its not convenient
2 Tim 4
2 Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.


All the miracle, tongue , OBE, check my future, fast for me sensitive christians are actually going directly opposite to what the scripture is saying. This letter to Timothy applies to all members of this mystical body of Christ called the church.

The doctrine of Christ in this church age is about Faith(TRUST), LOVE and HOPE in God not miracle, wonders, tongues and what have you.

shdemidemi:
2 Tim
2 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.


ENDURE...When do you endure?

You endure when there is pain. He didn't tell him command fire, or pray this and that or fast or speak in tongues. He says ENDURE hardness like a soldier at war.

STUDY....

That is the most important tool Paul emphasised and stressed about.

TEACH

When its convenient and when its not convenient
2 Tim 4
2 Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

Yeah and that's why we study,teach, urge and encourage others about the gifts of the Spirit cos they are scriptural.

Heck! It was the same Paul that says the kingdom is not in TALK but in POWER. Paul,timothy,philip and others would not have won so many to Christ.You can see the effect of Luther, Calvin,Wesely, Spurgeon and others today.These are men who are not even eloquent and intelligent by worldly standards but they yielded themselves to the Holy Spirit.

If you still insist we should teach without God's power in display,then Jehovah witness are more better at it than we pentecostal.Ofcos the result of their evangelism is the small shrines and magazine littered all over the place.SMH!!

If you still insist we should teach without God's power in display,then Jehovah witness are more better at it than we pentecostal.Ofcos the result of their evangelism is the small shrines and magazine littered all over the place.SMH!!

bro shed look up the link i gave you, all those who stood up for the truth had to us the power of God thru prayer to effect maximum effect in their witness for Christ. Timothy whom you quoted rightly, was instructed to stir the gift that came upon him when he laid his hands on him. Becos am sure paul observed that to carry out the task ahead, one needs manifestation of power, love and sound mind not spirit of fear. So we urge you to reconsider your rejecting what is needful. And just becos abuse that is rampant does not mean we should throw away the baby with the water. May the eyes of your understanding be enlightened in Yahshua's name.

The result of Christianity that is void of the Holy Spirit is religiosity. No wonder there are empty pews in London on Sundays.

The result of such empty spirituality is crass immorality and gay marriage legalization in the church.

lukewarmness is far more damaging abeg.

shdemidemi:

ENDURE...When do you endure?

You endure when there is pain. He didn't tell him command fire, or pray this and that or fast or speak in tongues. He says ENDURE hardness like a soldier at war.

So you dont think there is no endurance in prayer? You should ask Jesus what he endured at gethsemane. And you think there is no pain in fasting? Have you gone three days without food before.

You're communicating from the point of inexperience about many things. Study more.

Bidam: The result of Christianity that is void of the Holy Spirit is religiosity. No wonder there are empty pews in London on Sundays.

The result of such empty spirituality is crass immorality and gay marriage legalization in the church.

lukewarmness is far more damaging abeg.

1Cor 14v38-39 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, AND FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES

Bidam: LUKE 11:11-13
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. It is for ALL believers who thirst and desire Him.

Then why didn't Jesus Christ speak in tongues, coz i'm pretty certain that the Holy Spirit descended on him

JonesK:
Then why didn't Jesus Christ speak in tongues, coz i'm pretty certain that the Holy Spirit descended on him

What tongue would Jesus speak that His understanding would be unfruitful Coz that is what it would take for it to be speaking in tongues.

ayoku777:

So you dont think there is no endurance in prayer? You should ask Jesus what he endured at gethsemane. And you think there is no pain in fasting? Have you gone three days without food before.

What has the endurance in prayers and fasting got to do with what Paul told Timothy. Please take your time to go through the letter to Timothy. Paul was about to be killed by emperor Nero, it was definite and more sure that he was going to die.

6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

He knew more persecution was hovering for the next in line- Timothy. Paul was not talking about praying and fasting bro.
2 tim 3
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Where on earth does miracle, tongues fit into all these things--Endure, persevere and trust God even if it cost you your life Timothy, you must die for it.

ayoku777:
You're communicating from the point of inexperience about many things. Study more..

Experience counts to nothing with the word of God bro. Thanks for your advice, I will definitely study more, please do likewise.