What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? - Religion - Nairaland
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Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant / The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant / Old Covenant New Covenant Pre-old Covenant Post New Covenant And Beyond. (2) (3) (4)
| What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 1:24am On Nov 05, 2013 |
There is a sad dearth of understanding as to what the new covenant is, or what the old covenant is. The understanding of the covenant is important and i dare say foundational to christian life, understanding and doctrine. i believe a lack of understanding of what the new covenant is, has led to the bulk of controversy in christendom today. What is the new covenant, and what is the old covenant? Would love if each could explain in personal words, your own expressions, instead of throwing in links, jabs and likes. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by opeano(m): 7:22pm On Nov 05, 2013 |
2 cor 3:13,14. Their minds was blinded. For unto this day, .......... But right now, the veil is lifted in christ jesus.. Since the atonement of sin done by christ was done, it heralded d start of a new convenant. Heb 9:18-22. . Old convenant thus mean d convenant made wt abraham and wt his kinds, d isrealites. D new convenant is d promise of faith made tru christ jesus that everyone who believes in him should b saved, not tru any form of blood sacrifice |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Nobody: 9:35pm On Nov 05, 2013 |
Yeah..very true sir, as i rightfully stated in the other threads where i saw all kinds of errors. The Abrahamic Covenant continues today, it is the Mosaic Covenant which was broken and superseded. 1. The Mosaic Covenant is a different national covenant with many challenging stipulations(the Law) and a different sign (the Sabbath). 2. The Mosaic Covenant was broken by Israel (Deu. 31:16,20; Isa. 24:5; Hos. 8:1)requiring a New Covenant which was ratified in the death of Christ (Jer. 31:31-32; Luke 22:20). Paul emphasized the distinctiveness of the Abrahamic Covenant from the Mosaic when he wrote to the Galatians. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 2:13am On Nov 06, 2013 |
opeano: 2 cor 3:13,14. Their minds was blinded. For unto this day, .......... But right now, the veil is lifted in christ jesus.. Since the atonement of sin done by christ was done, it heralded d start of a new convenant. Heb 9:18-22. . Old convenant thus mean d convenant made wt abraham and wt his kinds, d isrealites. D new convenant is d promise of faith made tru christ jesus that everyone who believes in him should b saved, not tru any form of blood sacrificeSorry, how do you arrive at the bolded. That is, Old convenant thus mean d convenant made wt abraham and wt his kinds, d isrealites. Note that all christians are kinds of Abraham. On the new covenant, i think the sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice. What do you mean by "not tru any form of blood sacrifice"? Please, i do not mean to "harrass" you with questions. i do respect your opinions. i just want a clear and SIMPLE discussion on the covenants. Something that anybody can understand, like a child. Something basic, something straight forward. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 2:20am On Nov 06, 2013 |
Bidam: Yeah..very true sir, as i rightfully stated in the other threads where i saw all kinds of errors.  You're stating that the Mosaic covenant is the Old covenant? i agree BTW. If you want to explain shortly, to say a child, or a new convert. What would you descibe as the new covenant, and as the Old covenant. You did not define or explain the new covenant oh. You just said it is ratified(  ) in the death of Christ. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Nobody: 6:34am On Nov 06, 2013 |
Image123: The Mosaic covenant is called the also sinaitic covenant.It was the covenant that established relationship between God and Israel. I think the covenant is also a redemptive idea.i.e those who keep the covenant are are blessed(same as salvation), while those who do not keep it are cursed.Failure to keep on keeping the covenant results in being cut off (eternal condemnation). All of the OT Scriptures have shown clearly that Israel suffered because they violated the covenant. The remedy as found in all the prophetic writings was for Israel to return to God. The New covenant came as a result of Israel failure to keep the Old. The old covenant became obsolete,thus the need for a new and better covenant. I believe God himself who is omniscient knew they couldn't keep it hence His promise through Jeremiah in Jer.31:31-34. We as gentiles are grafted into the common wealth of Israel. Paul put it nicely by saying we are cut off from a wild olive tree and grafted into a cultivated olive tree.( Rom 11:24). So that means we are no longer under the sinaitic covenant but under the new covenant which suggest a new relationship between God and the believer. The ground of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus and the means of entering into the covenant relationship is by FAITH in Jesus Christ.(Eph 2:  . But faith itself comes through the word of God(Rom. 10:17),making the word of great importance.Like i told them in the Malachi thread it is an error to say the Abrahamic covenant is obsolete. The Abrahamic covenant is foundational to all of Scripture. It is the key to both the Old and New Testaments and is foundational to the whole program of redemption. All subsequent revelation is the outworking of this covenant. This covenant, and the subsequent covenant framework, is the key to understanding Scripture. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Nobody: 6:39am On Nov 06, 2013 |
Image123: The Mosaic covenant is called the also sinaitic covenant.It was the covenant that established relationship between God and Israel. I think the covenant is also a redemptive idea.i.e those who keep the covenant are are blessed(same as salvation), while those who do not keep it are cursed.Failure to keep on keeping the covenant results in being cut off (eternal condemnation). All of the OT Scriptures have shown clearly that Israel suffered because they violated the covenant. The remedy as found in all the prophetic writings was for Israel to return to God. The New covenant came as a result of Israel failure to keep the Old. The old covenant became obsolete,thus the need for a new and better covenant. I believe God himself who is omniscient knew they couldn't keep it hence His promise through Jeremiah in Jer.31:31-34. We as gentiles are grafted into the common wealth of Israel. Paul put it nicely by saying we are cut off from a wild olive tree and grafted into a cultivated olive tree.( Rom 11:24). So that means we are no longer under the sinaitic covenant but under the new covenant which suggest a new relationship between God and the believer. The ground of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus and the means of entering into the covenant relationship is by FAITH in Jesus Christ.(Eph 2:8.). But faith itself comes through the word of God(Rom. 10:17),making the word of great importance. Like i told them in the Malachi thread it is an error to say the Abrahamic covenant is obsolete. The Abrahamic covenant is foundational to all of Scripture. It is the key to both the Old and New Testaments and is foundational to the whole program of redemption. All subsequent revelation is the outworking of this covenant. This covenant, and the subsequent covenant framework, is the key to understanding Scripture. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Nobody: 6:42am On Nov 06, 2013 |
Image123: The Mosaic covenant is also called the sinaitic covenant.It was the covenant that established relationship between God and Israel. I think the covenant is also a redemptive idea.i.e those who keep the covenant are are blessed(same as salvation), while those who do not keep it are cursed.Failure to keep on keeping the covenant results in being cut off (eternal condemnation). All of the OT Scriptures have shown clearly that Israel suffered because they violated the covenant. The remedy as found in all the prophetic writings was for Israel to return to God. The New covenant came as a result of Israel failure to keep the Old. The old covenant became obsolete,thus the need for a new and better covenant. I believe God himself who is omniscient knew they couldn't keep it hence His promise through Jeremiah in Jer.31:31-34. We as gentiles are grafted into the common wealth of Israel. Paul put it nicely by saying we are cut off from a wild olive tree and grafted into a cultivated olive tree.( Rom 11:24). So that means we are no longer under the sinaitic covenant but under the new covenant which suggest a new relationship between God and the believer. The ground of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus and the means of entering into the covenant relationship is by FAITH in Jesus Christ.(Eph 2:8.). But faith itself comes through the word of God(Rom. 10:17),making the word of great importance. Like i told them in the Malachi thread it is an error to say the Abrahamic covenant is obsolete. The Abrahamic covenant is foundational to all of Scripture. It is the key to both the Old and New Testaments and is foundational to the whole program of redemption. All subsequent revelation is the outworking of this covenant. This covenant, and the subsequent covenant framework, is the key to understanding Scripture. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 8:28am On Nov 06, 2013 |
Bidam:Lovely, thanks. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by LordHaveMercy: 9:31am On Nov 06, 2013 |
I knew it when l saw the title of this post and the name of the op. The essence of opening this thread is to justify tithing by stealth. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Alwaystrue(f): 9:58am On Nov 06, 2013 |
The Old Convenant Exodus 24:7-8 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words Under the old convenant, the people promised to do the will of God...Their doing was by human strength which is weak for they could not even will themselves to do good by flesh. New Convenant Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which [ratifies the agreement and] is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you In the New Convenant the Holy Spirit is poured out to all who agree to do and be obedient by BELIEF in Jesus Christ thus agreeing to do God's will but in this case, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure...Phil 2:3; John 7:38; Philipians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:3-4; John 12:44 We now have the teacher of the Holy Spirit to guide us in all the truth of God's Word. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 1:35pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
What many fail to see is that the covenant is not God's commandment(s). The Old covenant is not "Thou shall not steal" or any of the thou shalts. Many of us tend to interpret it to be that. The consequence is that we become very confused and selective in understanding and implementing the new covenant. We're often like, the Old covenant is gone, therefore "Thou shall not steal" is gone. Or "Thou shall not kill", or "Honour your parents" or any of the other Thou shalts. Or even as someone opined above, tithing. The Old covenant is not Thou shall tithe or anything close to that. That is not the covenant, but a revelation of God's will. A covenant is an agreement, a contract, an understanding, a deal, a testament. Like we currently have the issue between the Nigerian Federal government and the Academic Staff Union over an agreement. The FG and the ASUU had an agreement, a covenant. Its not a commandment or a law, it is an agreement. The same way, God had an agreement, a covenant with the Israelites. BTW, this is not the first or only covenant/agreement God had with man. There had been agreements with Abraham and with Noah for instance. The agreement with Noah is along the lines that seedtime and harvest, day and night will not cease, and that God would not destroy earth with water. That's a covenant/agreement, it stands till date. God makes agreements with people. He made a covenant with David, He made one with Phinehas and so on. These are not what we refer to as the Old covenant. The Old covenant has the name 'Old' because it was changed, like the FG currently wants to change the agreement with the ASUU. So it is Old in relation to the New, not in relation to age (Noah's covenant/agreement is actually older). So, what was the Old agreement or covenant? It was simply that if man obeyed God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God. Note that God's words or laws are not the covenant or agreement. The covenant or agreement is that IF man obeys God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God. i'm like "Oh my God, oh my God, how can man sign such an agreement!!!". Its unfortunate really, man continues to think that he can somehow manage to obey or please God by personal effort. Its not just israel, people continue doing that. So, God knew man would not keep the agreement  but man said he would. Here is the agreement below.Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. The Israelites had come out of Egypt and were starting to 'settle' in their journeying. Then they came to Sinai, and God gave them this conditions, and they just signed it like the FG. People had knowledge og good and evil before this time. Abraham knew what was good and what was evil. So did Isaac and Jacob. They knew murder was wrong, they knew deceit was wrong, they knew it was wrong for a child to sleep with the father's concubine. This was all before Moses. Joseph's brothers knew stealing was wrong and they were afraid when they saw the cup in their possession. The children of Israel had an idea of what God liked and did not like. They knew laws even before God gave them any officially. Infact, just the previous chapter(Exodus 18), Moses had appointed judges who knew ordinances and laws and judged the people. Exo 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. So when God comes with this offer, they were like "sure thing, we'll do it." They'd seen all the plagues in Egypt, they had witnessed a mighty deliverance and the parting of the Red Sea. They had conquered AAmalek without experience, Heck, they had manna and water from the Rock. To them, what could be more, they had all the experience. Here is their answer after Moses told them. Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. Same chapter, the people were already having issues with keeping God's instructions. Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: Towards the end of the chapter, god is telling Moses to go and stop the people from coming to the mount. Moses was so confident of his people he says "The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us". God was like go mr man. The chapters that follow, we see God giving Moses His words, among which we see the famous 10 commandments. At the end of this first batch, Moses comes to deliver the conditions, and the people agree once again. Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. This is the OLD agreement, the Old Covenant. That man would obey God's voice indeed, and keep His covenant, SO THAT man would be a peculiar people and holy before God. That is , if you obey Me, you would be justified. It is based on your works. This agreement was RATIFIED, using my brother's grammar with blood. The new agreement is also ratified with blood BTW. The Old was with the blood of animals, the new was with the blood of Jesus. The new covenant is that of faith, that IF one believes in Jesus, he will be saved and justified, seen in Christ. That is why Paul talks about reckoning. Let me stop here for feedback as it were. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 1:36pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: The Old Convenant Succint. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Zikkyy(m): 2:35pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123: Image123: am yet to understand your objective here. if God's laws/words are not the covenant, so? |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Zikkyy(m): 2:44pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123: @bolded you don't keep the covenant, you keep to the terms of the covenant. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Zikkyy(m): 3:09pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123: @bolded, these are instructions and part of the agreement. If you take out these instructions, there will be no agreement/covenant. Image123: What is gone is the "thou shalts" contained in the agreement. i.e. the terms of the agreement. It went with the agreement/covenant. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by ayoku777(m): 3:45pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
The Law is the shadow of Love. Jesus said in John 13v34 -A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. If Jesus calls love the NEW COMMANDMENT, then which one is the OLD? Obviously, its the Ten commandments and the the other ordinances under the law. And if He calls love the new, it means the law and love are not the same. Love is the consummation of the spiritual realities of the shadow of the law. In other words, if you have love, you don't need the law. If you still need 'Thou shall not commit adultery' to not cheat on your wife, its coz you are not walking in love. If you still need 'Thou shall not bear false witness' to not lie on your neighbour, its coz you are not walking in love. And how do you walk in love? By being led of the Holy Spirit. Romans 5v5 -the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. When you're led of the Spirit, you will walk in love. Meditate on this passages: Romans 3v19 -Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law. Galatians 5v18 -But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 3v12 -And the law is not of faith but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Galatians 3v25 -But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. The Holy Spirit doesn't help us keep the law, he helps us walk in love (the new commandment). The law is a shadow of love. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Candour(m): 5:21pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Gal 3:24-25 'Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.' Can Image123 or another of the brethren kindly the explain the scripture above with respect to the old and new covenant? Thanks in anticipation. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Zikkyy(m): 6:26pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123 is attempting to separate the law from the covenant or agreement. i don't see how that can be possible. the "thou shalts" form the basis for the agreement/covenant. “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.” |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Alwaystrue(f): 6:59pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
@Image, Thanks for that expose. Yes people are confused with words convenant/agreement and the terms/rules of the convenant. @Ihedinobi helped me understand this better in one of his exposes. That is why Jesus said the law and prophets were our guides until John and Jesus took over as He is the manifestation of God in the flesh for us to HEAR His voice/word again which the Israelites refused to hear on Horeb as confirmed in Deuteronomy 18:15-19. Jesus started guiding us as soon as His ministry started after the baptism. I hope one day those who truly claim to believe Jesus is Lord will thus understand that the whole Old testament and Jesus words on earth are the Life, Light, Grace and Truth which the Apostles built their doctrine on when viewed with the eyes of the Spirit, our other guide after Jesus went to sit with His Father after resurrection. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by ayoku777(m): 7:10pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Zikkyy: Image123 is attempting to separate the law from the covenant or agreement. i don't see how that can be possible. the "thou shalts" form the basis for the agreement/covenant. Yeah, thats exactly the heresis that is not being addressed. That the covenant has changed from old to new but the terms and law of the old is still what is being used under the new. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Hebrews 7v12 -for the priesthood being changed, there is made of NECESSITY a CHANGE also of THE LAW. Everything has changed. From old covenant to new covenant. From aaronic priesthood to melchizedek priesthood. From obeying laws to being spirit led. From keeping commandments to walking in love. And from works and self effort to grace and faith. Everything changed. We need to stop trying to mix the two. Its like talking with my shadow when i'm right in your face. The law is the shadow of love. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by DrummaBoy(m): 7:22pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
ayoku777: I ENDORSE this message of the Kingdom 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by DrummaBoy(m): 7:26pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
The text below is taken from my blog: http://www.yesufu..com/2013/10/the-gospel-of-jesus-christ-part-5.html, The Gospel of Jesus Christ (Part 5): Today, the church is again weighed down by laws but not necessarily the laws of Moses but our inability to distinguish the Old Testament from the New. The church today takes much of it examples for Christian doctrine and practice from the Old Testament rather than the New. Thus, the priestly order of Aaron has been conveniently converted to a league of Men of God. Rather than submit to the admonition of Jesus that says we are all brethren (Matthew 23: , we find it easier to have ordained Pastors and Bishops, who hold such authority in the church and cannot be questioned but must be revered. Any tendency to question these men, we are referred quickly to the Old Testament again were God placed a curse on those who dared challenge Moses: “touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm”. We forget quickly that the people of God in the New Testament have been made priests and kings unto God (Revelation 1:6). This fascination with the Old Testament extends to the church’s preoccupation with buildings. The temple in Jerusalem was the symbol of the Jewish religion. Today, the church building occupies an equal place of relevance. And regardless of the cost of building and maintaining it, the church building has become our symbol of religion too. It is this Old Testament mentality that informs tithes and offerings collected in church services; thanksgiving; child and property dedication; Sabbath observance; full time ministry; mass choir; anniversary celebrations, a queer belief that God dwells in church buildings and a host of other similar practices. None of these can be traced to the New Testament churches led by the apostles of the lamb. Paul’s contention with the Judaizers of his time was not just because they practiced circumcision but because he was trying to ensure that the gospel and the church life that will emerge from its preaching will not be adulterated and thereby loose its potency. God meant for the church to be distinct from Israel and that distinction is not to be confused. Paul preached the doctrine of dispensations (Ephesians 1:9; 3:1-11). 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself (Ephesians 1) 1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:... (Ephesians 3) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrew 1) 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1) A mystery doctrine that teaches that even though God never changes, He has instituted certain changes all through human history to bring about His eternal purpose of redeeming humanity to Himself. This doctrine is a mystery in the sense that it was not revealed to Old Testament Israel but to the apostles of the Lamb, who in turn taught it to the church through their epistles: and therefore the distinction between the Old and the New Testaments. We have three dispensations that can be subdivided into two each. These are the Theocratic, Christocentric and Eschatological dispensations. The theocratic dispensation can be subdivided into the age of the gentiles and the age of Israel. The age of the gentiles will range from the time of Adam and Even, through Abraham and up till the time the nation of Israel came out of Egypt. The age of Israel will be from the time the laws were given through Moses until the time Jesus was born. Then we come into the Christocentric dispensation that can be divided into the Hypostatic Union and the Church age. The hypostatic union is the time when Jesus was born, through his earthly ministry and up till the time he died on the cross. It called hypostatic union because of the unique union of the God-man found in Jesus Christ. It also represent a unique time in the dealings of God with humanity when grace and law operated at the same time. The time of Jesus must be seen as a separate dispensation because that is the only time in history when God dwelt amongst men and it is the dispensation that makes other dispensation relevant. Then we come into the church age, which is the dispensation were we live in the present time. It ranges from the time Jesus died on the cross up till the time when the church will be taken away in rapture. This dispensation is not characterized by the laws of Moses but solely by grace. The teachings of the apostles, particularly that of Paul, are what theologians like to call Church Age doctrines. These doctrines are particularly designed to be taught to the church: for the equipping and perfecting of the saints until we all come to the full measure of maturity in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 4:12-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17). After rapture there shall be the eschatological dispensation that is subdivided into the time of tribulation and the millennial rule of Christ. When we understand dispensations, then we can understand the seeming discrepancies in the teachings of Paul and Jesus Christ. Jesus operated in a time of law and grace. He fulfilled the law and bequeathed its righteous requirement to the church. Paul taught that the church is no longer under the laws of Moses but under a new law that commands us to love God and men. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by ayoku777(m): 7:39pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
@Drummerboy love the part where you said, God doesn't change but He institutes changes. Thats so true. All through scripture, especially the new testament, we keep seeing things like new covenant, new commandment, new creation, new heaven and new earth. And when God calls a thing new, it automatically classifies the former as old. And Jesus advised us not to put new wine in old wineskin. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 7:46pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Zikkyy: zikkyy, the thread is aimed at everyone of us having a clearer understanding of the covenants. There is no need trying to find holes or start arguments. i said The covenant or agreement is that IF man obeys God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God. @bolded you don't keep the covenant, you keep to the terms of the covenant.You would have to ask God for clarifications for that one oh. He said. Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: i believe that what is gone majorly is the condition, not necessarily the commandment. The condition of the covenant, the agreement was that IF God's words were obeyed THEN they would be. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by DrummaBoy(m): 8:14pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
I needed to state my position so that my response to what other have written can be better appreciated. Bidam: This is not particularly correct. I had shown you in another thread that the Abrahamic Covenant can only be likened to the New Covenant in Christ in the sense that both of them were accessed by faith (alone). The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by physical Circumcision (Genesis 17); The New Testament is ratified by Jesus blood. If the covenant is the same as the Abrahamic covenant, we would need physical circumcision. Paul wrote in the Galatians that you refered to that we do not come into the New Covenant by physical circumcision. So with all due respect, sir, you are wrong in this: The Abrahamic covenant is not the New Covenant. You need not take such a position all in the bid to justify tithing like Abraham. (just in case that is the reason you are propagating this error). |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Alwaystrue(f): 8:16pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123:@Image, I will draw you back on this. Has the condition really 'gone'? If people fail to heed the voice of Jesus today as God testified in Deuteronomy 18 or obey the Holy Spirit or keep the new convenant (I will help you will and do God's pleasure), will the conditions still be binding? Hmmmmn. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by DrummaBoy(m): 8:26pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: The Old Convenant There is a problem here: first you say that in the Old Covenant: "i].Their doing was by human strength which is weak for they could not even will themselves to do good by flesh.[/i]" (empahsis mine) Then you proceed to say about the New Covenant: "In the New Convenant the [b]Holy Spirit is poured out to all who agree to do and be obedient by BELIEF in Jesus Christ thus agreeing to do God's will but in this case, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure[/b]" (Emphasis mine) Apparently, from what you have written, there is no difference btw the Old and the New. Both of them are carried by human effort and if going by you definition of human effort, the New Testament will also produce "weakness". This will probably have been better stated as The Old Covenant carried the element of Man's effort, which was weak and could not produce the kind of result God wanted; however, the New Testament is wholely and solely dependent on what God's does; man may respond to it by his weak efforts but the glory of the New Covenant is that man depends totally on God's effort. That is why the New Covenant carries more glory (2 Cor 3). |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Alwaystrue(f): 8:32pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
@Ayoku, When Jesus was asked the greatest commandment, He said Loving God with all our being in short and also loving our neighbour. And He added that the whole Law and prophets are hinged on this. Now He said He gives us A New Commandment, does this negate any of the two above then? One thing to realise is that the whole law is based on love but the way a carnal person sees the law/love is different from the way a man of the spirit does. Hebrews says the same gospel was preached to the Israelites but they did not MIX it with Faith in them that heard it. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by ayoku777(m): 8:53pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: @Ayoku, Ofcourse, when we say the law is a shadow, it means it carries the similitude of love. Just like your shadow has a limited measure of your form. But love is the new commandment, not the law. Its like saying walking in love by the Spirit was where the law and prophets was leading us. So love doesnt negate the law, it goes beyond it, into what it couldnt do. The law has as much substance and reality when compared to love as your shadow has to your body. And then the gospel that was preached to them was the gospel of the kingdom. That was what they didnt mix with faith. |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(m): 8:55pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
ayoku777: The Law is the shadow of Love. Jesus said in John 13v34 -A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.Ayoku, thanks for the input which i largely agree with BTW. However, i am referring to the New and Old COVENANTS, not COMMANDMENTS. The new commandment is not actually new anyway. 1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. All the commandments are encapsulated in this NEW commandment, that's why it is not actually new. But no problem sha, if you maintain it is new, i understand and even agree with your perspective on that. Gala 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by ayoku777(m): 9:00pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Image123: On point. |
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