FOLYKAZE:

Black can be many peoples look at fijians and people from vanuatu, they are black and not from africa. Indians the asian kind (India) can be black as well and they aint African. Stop spreading lies as truth.

Even the so called Jew hate blacks than anything. Read about it here http://thebilzerianreport.com/why-do-so-many-jews-hate-black-people/. Your cheap lies cant grow here.

Everyone originated from Africa.

Who doesn't hate blacks? What's your point?

I think we are digressing from the main topic.

FOLYKAZE:

Read about Orunmila and Ifa here. https://www.nairaland.com/1486568/plain-concept-eledumare-orisas-reality#19131425 . You can ask any question either on this thread or on the said thread. Thanks bro

You are wlcm. Am also following d said thread but I couldn't find any post directed at it,if u can explain it here briefly. thanks for d privilege.

NativeBoy:

Again, you're free to say what you want but without scholarly evidence, you cannot hope to convince anyone.

Since I don't think you'll produce any such evidence to back up your claims, I'll go another route. Let's assume that as you have said we should return to our own gods and abandon the Judeo-Christian God, then I'd like to know, whose god is stronger?

We are on the internet and the highest I can do for u is to post links, which you can get urself.

Most of wat I know I beyond Internet links and such links can't be enough to convince u because u have been sucked in the judeo-Christian thing for long.

I am not saying christianity is evil, like u people claim all other religions are.

I am not saying Christianity isn't good for the soul, but u people claim only Christianity can save a soul.

If you need evidence search the internet, it would be a good start, then speak with high placed Rabbi in the Jewish Temple in Israel. Go around the middle east learning from intelligent folks who knows about history and spirituality.

However if u still need be to post links I would.


The most high God is not bias and is rational and just in creation. You cannot assume One God is stronger than the other, they all have their duties and elements to control

NativeBoy:

Everyone originated from Africa.

Who doesn't hate blacks? What's your point?

I think we are digressing from the main topic.

we didn't originate from two parents. The whole earth surface was one landmass before it split between the sea. Even you are contradicting your alpha man Mr President that said you originated from Middle east.

emotional:

You are wlcm. Am also following d said thread but I couldn't find any post directed at it,if u can explain it here briefly. thanks for d privilege.

To the best I know it, Orunmila covers intelligence and divinity. I have searched everywhere but cant find any image representation or carved wood that represent Orunmila. The only representation we could talk about here is Ikin Ifa. And from my best knowledge, Ikin is the tool use for communiting with Orunmila and having access to ones Ori and other Orisa.

And I read through the question again but cant grap what you really driving at. Is it that Orunmila doesn't have image representation (if it this, Ikin or Opele could be what you call representation)? Or can you rephrase your question more better here.

NativeBoy:

Again, you're free to say what you want but without scholarly evidence, you cannot hope to convince anyone.

Since I don't think you'll produce any such evidence to back up your claims, I'll go another route. Let's assume that as you have said we should return to our own gods and abandon the Judeo-Christian God, then I'd like to know, whose god is stronger?

There is nothing like strongest among Orisa. Obatala lead the creation team and he is referred to as omnipresent, Orunmila is the Omniscient while Oduduwa is the Omnipotent. Oduduwa take charges after Obatala couldn't continue his task while Ogun lead when they were about the enter earth. Eshu save all the Ase of all Orisa so they take permission from him before commencing on a task. And Ogun symbolize strength....orunmila use him because orunmila do not have bone. They all work together.....there is nothing like stronger or strongest anywhere.

FOLYKAZE:

There is nothing like strongest among Orisa. Obatala lead the creation team and he is referred to as omnipresent, Orunmila is the Omniscient while Oduduwa is the Omnipotent. Oduduwa take charges after Obatala couldn't continue his task while Ogun lead when they were about the enter earth. Eshu save all the Ase of all Orisa so they take permission from him before commencing on a task. And Ogun symbolize strength....orunmila use him because orunmila do not have bone. They all work together.....there is nothing like stronger or strongest anywhere.

You misunderstood me. I'm asking for strength comparisons between the tribal gods and even between national gods? As an example, who's stronger between the gods if the Igbo pantheon vs the gods of the Yoruba pantheon? Or, who's stronger between the Yoruba pantheon of gods and say the Maasai pantheon of gods?

FOLYKAZE:

To the best I know it, Orunmila covers intelligence and divinity. I have searched everywhere but cant find any image representation or carved wood that represent Orunmila. The only representation we could talk about here is Ikin Ifa. And from my best knowledge, Ikin is the tool use for communiting with Orunmila and having access to ones Ori and other Orisa.

And I read through the question again but cant grap what you really driving at. Is it that Orunmila doesn't have image representation (if it this, Ikin or Opele could be what you call representation)? Or can you rephrase your question more better here.

You nailed it,a kind of representation, this 'Ikin or Opele' are they (like)palm-kernel? Often Kept in a white plate or bowl,pls I realy need clarification,is it compulsory for Orunmila/Ifa child(seeker)to have this kind of(Ifa representation? Not to derail d thread do I drop my mail? Thanks once again

macof:

We are on the internet and the highest I can do for u is to post links, which you can get urself.

Most of wat I know I beyond Internet links and such links can't be enough to convince u because u have been sucked in the judeo-Christian thing for long.

I am not saying christianity is evil, like u people claim all other religions are.

I am not saying Christianity isn't good for the soul, but u people claim only Christianity can save a soul.

If you need evidence search the internet, it would be a good start, then speak with high placed Rabbi in the Jewish Temple in Israel. Go around the middle east learning from intelligent folks who knows about history and spirituality.

However if u still need be to post links I would.


The most high God is not bias and is rational and just in creation. You cannot assume One God is stronger than the other, they all have their duties and elements to control

There is a lot of things written on the Internet that aren't true. One should be very critical of Internet sources.

The world is now that I don't have to travel the Middle East for esoteric knowledge since people are now penning things down. Please point me to some credible literature addressing your points.

NativeBoy:

You misunderstood me. I'm asking for strength comparisons between the tribal gods and even between national gods? As an example, who's stronger between the gods if the Igbo pantheon vs the gods of the Yoruba pantheon? Or, who's stronger between the Yoruba pantheon of gods and say the Maasai pantheon of gods?

Sango of Yoruba is Amahodia of Igbo and Thor of greek. Pagan is universal. Nothing like stronger or strongest

FOLYKAZE:

Sango of Yoruba is Amahodia of Igbo and Thor of greek. Pagan is universal. Nothing like stronger or strongest

Norse not Greek

The Vikings (major parts of present Germany) were a nation devoted to Thor

FOLYKAZE:

Sango of Yoruba is Amahodia of Igbo and Thor of greek. Pagan is universal. Nothing like stronger or strongest

So each god in the Yoruba pantheon has an equivalent in that of other cultures?

Who is Odin's counterpart in Yoruba tradition?

emotional:

You nailed it,a kind of representation, this 'Ikin or Opele' are they (like)palm-kernel? Often Kept in a white plate or bowl,

Lol.....why are you playing Eshu role on me?

Lets throw the stick at ourselves.

Who is Nigeria? Why do you represent Nigeria with green, white and green?

I am very sure you are in your scores or more than that. Pls where is the you in 1 or 2 yrs old? Lets assume your name is tunde, where is the tunde of 1 or 2 yrs old? The only answer or direction you can give me is picture.

And when you are about to date a girl, why do you represent your love with red rose flower?

Love is abstract, Nigeria is a mindset defining a terroritory and the young boy in you is gone in reality sense.

Orunmila also is a force and have humanic nature too but both are represented with Ikin. Ifa adherent dont call it palm kernel. Nope.

emotional:

pls I realy need clarification,is it compulsory for Orunmila/Ifa child(seeker)to have this kind of(Ifa representation? Not to derail d thread do I drop my mail? Thanks once again

Lets assume you are a gal and a guy put a ring in your finger, what comes to your mind? Marriage or courtship.

Just like your computer and internet. You have database and server engine where every information or challenges are linked with other informations. If you want to gather this info, you need your computer, accessible internet connection and your gateway (website). With this, you can get any information you want.

Same thing goes with Ifa. Ikin or Opele is the tool which you use to communicate with Orunmila (deity of intelligence) and through that, you can access other Orisa and also connect with your Ori. If you not Ifa adherent or practitioner, it is not necessary for you to have Ikin. But just like been a computer student that needs computer machine, Ifa devotees have Ikin and understand Odus.

That is to the best I understand it. And thanks for playing Eshu role here lol.

NativeBoy:

So each god in the Yoruba pantheon has an equivalent in that of other cultures?

Who is Odin's counterpart in Yoruba tradition?

Odin is the god of war, battle, hunt, victory, death and wisdom. What comes to your mind should be Ogun.

macof:

Norse not Greek

The Vikings (major parts of present Germany) were a nation devoted to Thor

Thanks for the correction.

emotional:

You nailed it,a kind of representation, this 'Ikin or Opele' are they (like)palm-kernel? Often Kept in a white plate or bowl,pls I realy need clarification,is it compulsory for Orunmila/Ifa child(seeker)to have this kind of(Ifa representation? Not to derail d thread do I drop my mail? Thanks once again

No it's not compulsory, only those initiated into Ifa priesthood must have it, only them can understand it

FOLYKAZE:

Odin is the god of war, battle, hunt, victory, death and wisdom. What comes to your mind should be Ogun.

And the equivalent of the Titans in Greek tradition would be?

NativeBoy:

So each god in the Yoruba pantheon has an equivalent in that of other cultures?

Who is Odin's counterpart in Yoruba tradition?

The understanding of nature forces depends on the people.

Most gods have counterparts in every other Culture but Not all.

Thor(Norse) is absolutely Sango
Odin(Norse) could be Orunmila or Obatala
3Zeus(Greek) could be Sango or Obatala
El Shaddai(Canaanite) could be Oke
Loki(Norse) best fits Eshu
Mercury(Greco-Roman) is absolutely Esu
Aphrodite(Greek) is absolutely Osun
Ares(Greek) is Ogun
Yaw(Canaanite) could be Olokun
Morpheus(Greek) is Sigidi

Thanks guys, Cleared.

NativeBoy:

And the equivalent of the Titans in Greek tradition would be?

Trolls in Norse

NativeBoy:

And the equivalent of the Titans in Greek tradition would be?

Macof taking charge.

macof:
Trolls in Norse

FOLYKAZE:

Macof taking charge.

Sorry I meant the Yoruba tradition equivalent of titans?

@nativeboy. Are you now ignoring black and jew now? For how long should we wait for you standing up

FOLYKAZE:

we didn't originate from two parents. The whole earth surface was one landmass before it split between the sea. Even you are contradicting your alpha man Mr President that said you originated from Middle east.

NativeBoy:

Sorry I meant the Yoruba tradition equivalent of titans?

Titans is not a single deity. There are many males and females in it. They are immortals like the 200 humans that turn to Orisas. Sorry I dont know titans in Yoruba

NativeBoy:

Sorry I meant the Yoruba tradition equivalent of titans?

We have no titans in our spirituality

The Titans/Trolls and sky giants are only believed in Britannia, Scandinavia, Greek and neighboring areas

Such Creatures never appeared in West Africa

FOLYKAZE: @nativeboy. Are you now ignoring black and jew now? For how long should we wait for you standing up

I don't understand your comment. Nevertheless it is common knowledge that everyone migrated out of Africa.

macof:

We have no titans in our spirituality

The Titans/Trolls and sky giants are only believed in Britannia, Scandinavia, Greek and neighboring areas

Such Creatures never appeared in West Africa

According to Greek tradition, the titans gave birth to the gods. In fact in those other traditions, those deities were material beings, they had origins. And since you equated Yoruba deity with those deities, then Yoruba deities were also created beings yes?

Another point, if you say that there is no strength comparisons within pagan traditions, how was Zeus able to defeat Cronos his father who was a Titan?

NativeBoy:

According to Greek tradition, the titans gave birth to the gods. In fact in those other traditions, those deities were material beings, they had origins. And since you equated Yoruba deity with those deities, then Yoruba deities were also created beings yes?

Another point, if you say that there is no strength comparisons within pagan traditions, how was Zeus able to defeat Cronos his father who was a Titan?

Titans were Given birth to by The God Uranus And Gaia

Uranus is believed to be the supreme God in Greek paganism. He however is lost in the sky and has low consciousness, that is why Zeus(Grandson of Uranus) was regarded as king of the gods

Zeus was able to defeat Cronus with the help of the Cyclops and also Gaia(The force of mother nature, comprises all nature forces)

macof:

Titans were Given birth to by The God Uranus And Gaia

Uranus is believed to be the supreme God in Greek paganism. He however is lost in the sky and has low consciousness, that is why Zeus(Grandson of Uranus) was regarded as king of the gods

Zeus was able to defeat Cronus with the help of the Cyclops and also Gaia(The force of mother nature, comprises all nature forces)

Still the point remains that you and FOLYKAZE stand corrected that there are strength comparisons in pagan traditions. Otherwise, how did Cronos defeat Uranus and how did Zeus defeat Cronos?

FOLYKAZE:
Quran 6:92
Sahih International
And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed and confirming what was before it, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their prayers.(The mother of towns, Umul Qura, is Mecca.)
42:7
Sahih International
And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities ]Makkah[ and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.

Both the verses 6:92 and 42:7 say "Mother of cities and those around it" not those "near" it!
Those around it means the full world. Mecca is the centre of the world, thus all of world's cities are around Mecca. It refer to all people as we could see the Qur'an telling us in context elsewhere:
Surah 6:19
Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES. Do you [trully] testify with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you].' Say, "Indeed He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]."
Surah 25:1
Blessed is He who has sent down the Criterion upon upon His servant that he may be TO THE WORLDS a warner.
Surah 21:107
And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

FOLYKAZE:
[b]• Islam: Quran 10:47
And for every people there is a Messenger.
Quran 16:36
And WE did raise among every people a Messenger

Indeed both of these verses say in the past Allah did send Messengers to every people. But with the coming of Islam all other religions have been abrogated:
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will among the losers. 3:85

FOLYKAZE:
Quran 14:4
And WE have not sent any Messenger except with revelation in the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them.

This verse does not restrict Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to only be a guide to Arabic speaking people. What this verse establishes is the fact that when Messengers came to their respective people they came to them speaking in their language so that they could understand them. Prophets of God did not fall down to earth from space but were chosen or raised as prophets from within their community or nations (of course Adam was an exception). The nation from whom they were raised spoke a particular language. Not so surprisingly then, this is the language the prophets used to communicate to them the message of God, otherwise they would not understand the message. History testifies that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent Qur'anic verses in Arabic with translations/translators warning the non-Arab Emperor Heraclius, Chosroes II, Negus etc. Furthermore, if non-Arabs weren't allowed to accept Islam then why was Salman the Persian allowed to do so with no objections from the Prophet (peace be upon him)? The same goes for the Ethiopian Bilal ibn Rabah who was held in high honor for being the first muezzin (announcing the call to prayer from the mosque) personally selected by the Prophet (peace be upon him). If Islam wasn't meant for non-Arabs as well then why did the Prophet (peace be upon him) say "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab over an Arab. except in piety"(Musnad Ahmad, Hadith no. 22391) Notice that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that race isn't a sign of superiority, rather what makes one superior to the other is piety. This shows that piety is accessible to non-Arabs through Islam. This indicates that Islam has a universal message. This is something that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has made very clear in another Hadith:
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.
1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.
2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.
3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.
4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).
5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.

NativeBoy:

I don't understand your comment. Nevertheless it is common knowledge that everyone migrated out of Africa.

common knowledge is not usually common.

The whole earth was once one land mass before it splitted to continents.

ubl6:
Both the verses 6:92 and 42:7 say "Mother of cities and those around it" not those "near" it!
Those around it means the full world. Mecca is the centre of the world, thus all of world's cities are around Mecca. It refer to all people as we could see the Qur'an telling us in context elsewhere:
Surah 6:19
Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES. Do you [trully] testify with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you].' Say, "Indeed He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]."
Surah 25:1
Blessed is He who has sent down the Criterion upon upon His servant that he may be TO THE WORLDS a warner.
Surah 21:107
And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

'Around it' mean world? Which school do you graduated from pls? So the cities around london include australia? Smh. The quran is very clear saying that the message is mecca and the cities around it. Around mean In or near one's current location. Your argument here is flaw.

'World' does not necessarily mean whole earth. Get your dictionary pls.

ubl6:
Indeed both of these verses say in the past Allah did send Messengers to every people. But with the coming of Islam all other religions have been abrogated:
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will among the losers. 3:85

What was it that Allah think when he was sending messengers to each people? Moreover, prophet mohamed started Islam so his message was directed to the Arab and other nations follow their messengers rather than been puppets. The verse didn't say verse, stop bringing taqiyya here pls. The verse is very clear which stated that we DID raise among people a messenger. The people of Yoruba have theirs, Igbo have theirs and Hausa have theirs. Islam started with Prophet mohamed and it is because he was raised among his people. Therefore Islam is for his people. Quran didn't say each messenger to leave his people for another people. Which mean prophet mohamed is entitled to Arab. Stop been puppet.

ubl6:
This verse does not restrict Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to only be a guide to Arabic speaking people. What this verse establishes is the fact that when Messengers came to their respective people they came to them speaking in their language so that they could understand them. Prophets of God did not fall down to earth from space but were chosen or raised as prophets from within their community or nations (of course Adam was an exception). The nation from whom they were raised spoke a particular language. Not so surprisingly then, this is the language the prophets used to communicate to them the message of God, otherwise they would not understand the message.

Another Taqiyya. The verse said clearly that each messenger were sent in the language of his people. Quran is pure Arabic nope? Can mohamed speak french or spanish? Therefore he is only meant for Arab because he spoke Arabic and his message were written in Arabic. Other tribe are not entitled to follow him or Islam because their messenger should teach them in their own language not a foreign language.

ubl6:
History testifies that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent Qur'anic verses in Arabic with translations/translators warning the non-Arab Emperor Heraclius, Chosroes II, Negus etc. Furthermore, if non-Arabs weren't allowed to accept Islam then why was Salman the Persian allowed to do so with no objections from the Prophet (peace be upon him)? The same goes for the Ethiopian Bilal ibn Rabah who was held in high honor for being the first muezzin (announcing the call to prayer from the mosque) personally selected by the Prophet (peace be upon him). If Islam wasn't meant for non-Arabs as well then why did the Prophet (peace be upon him) say "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab over an Arab. except in piety"(Musnad Ahmad, Hadith no. 22391) Notice that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that race isn't a sign of superiority, rather what makes one superior to the other is piety. This shows that piety is accessible to non-Arabs through Islam. This indicates that Islam has a universal message. This is something that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has made very clear in another Hadith:

The quran was sent down in Arabic because Mohamed was an Arab man and was delivery his message as sent only to the Arab. Mohamed cannot speak french so those in france will have their own specific messenger.

Are translator your own messenger? Your confusion and lies is really alarming.

Most people convert by sword. That is the motto of Islam. And I am dealing with quran, pls take your Haddit elsewhere.