fresh_dude: Also, if love is a choice, is it possible to choose to love more than one person at a time? Or is it a rule/principle of love/marriage to be only capable of loving one person per time?

yes it is possible to choose to love more than one person at a time. Have you ever heard of something called polygamous marriage?
But if you're in a monogamous marriage (you made a vow to love one single person) yet you go on to love someone else outside, then that is immoral. Get a divorce from your wife first so that you do no break your vow. Otherwise, go and have a polygamous marriage where you are free to love multiple women.
Through its institutions (marriage), society may ban women from loving multiple men legally. because most societal rules are created by men. hence why a polygamous marriage is tolerable and polyandrous marriages are not in many countries. Heck gay marriages are not tolerated in many countries either. Marriage is just societal institutions and the rules are set by whoever is in power. ex. in China, each family can only have one child (one child policy) per family etc. all these are institutional rules set by those in power.

love does not equal marriage. so you using the phrase "love/marriage" and equating them is ridiculous.
love is an action. marriage is an institution.

ex. love is to marriage what knowledge is to academia.
just because you have a marriage certificate doesn't mean you love your wife. Just because you have a school certificate or diploma doesn't mean you are educated or knowledgeable and vice versa. You can cheat in your marriage or have kids outside just the same way you can cheat on your school exams. hence why getting a divorce certificate is a legal process where you have to prove that you or the other party broke the marriage vow (unless you are using a no-fault divorce that is mutually consented to) etc.
Institutions are needed for civilization to exist in society. Otherwise, we will all be living wildly like animals. living lustfully, having 10 kids by 10 different women etc (Sagamite for example belongs in a jungle with animals of his kind). society will ultimately cease to exist.

Toyinletstalk:
Sadly, marraige is not the "opt-in and opt-out" thingy. It is important that we all marry who we truely love. In the advent that you acknowledge that you are inlove with someone else, respect your marriage and put that feeling under serious control. It is better to call in the help of God. Because, real and true love has this pull and push effect where you want to be with the one you love at all cost.

Truthfully, your marriage and immediate family comes first, the union is already blessed by God. At that time seeing your present spouse as a reflection of the one you love outside will help immensely with how you feel for him or her (especially, since we all are ONE). You can't help it. The heart loves who it loves. But you can control it. It takes serious discipline.

What a paradoxical argument you make.

You argue it is important we marry who we love?

And then follow it up that we should endeavour staying married to someone we don't love any more?

See gobe!

lynk106:

yes it is possible to choose to love more than one person at a time. Have you ever heard of something called polygamous marriage?
But if you're in a monogamous marriage (you made a vow to love one single person) yet you go on to love someone else outside, then that is immoral. Get a divorce from your wife first so that you do no break your vow. Otherwise, go and have a polygamous marriage where you are free to love multiple women.
Through its institutions (marriage), society may ban women from loving multiple men legally. because most societal rules are created by men. hence why a polygamous marriage is tolerable and polyandrous marriages are not in many countries. Heck gay marriages are not tolerated in many countries either. Marriage is just societal institutions and the rules are set by whoever is in power. ex. in China, each family can only have one child (one child policy) per family etc. all these are institutional rules set by those in power.

love does not equal marriage. so you using the phrase "love/marriage" and equating them is ridiculous.
love is an action. marriage is an institution.

ex. love is to marriage what knowledge is to academia.
just because you have a marriage certificate doesn't mean you love your wife. Just because you have a school certificate or diploma doesn't mean you are educated or knowledgeable and vice versa. You can cheat in your marriage or have kids outside just the same way you can cheat on your school exams. hence why getting a divorce certificate is a legal process where you have to prove that you or the other party broke the marriage vow (unless you are using a no-fault divorce that is mutually consented to) etc.
Institutions are needed for civilization to exist in society. Otherwise, we will all be living wildly like animals. living lustfully, having 10 kids by 10 different women etc (Sagamite for example belongs in a jungle with animals of his kind). society will ultimately cease to exist.

person poof, so your AIDS-infested brain knows institutions are required to make us sane and live civilised, but yet you advocate we corrupt our institutions by advocating deviants are included?

Sagamite:

What a paradoxical argument you make.

You argue it is important we marry who we love?

And then follow it up that we should endeavour staying married to someone we don't love any more?

See gobe!

You see it that way. But, marraige is a different ball game that is why it is important to really look before you leap. Before you say " I do", marry who you love or are inlove with. After you say " I do" to another person entirely, respect the vow you have made and stay true to it, you have lives that could and would be impacted due to any irrational decision.

Toyinletstalk:
You see it that way. But, marraige is a different ball game that is why it is important to really look before you leap. Before you say " I do", marry who you love or are inlove with. After you say " I do" to another person entirely, respect the vow you have made and stay true to it, you have lives that could and would be impacted due to any irrational decision.

You still have not said anything.

You argue it is important we marry who we love?

And then follow it up that we should endeavour staying married to someone we don't love any more?

So after you marry, love is irrelevant anymore, it is respecting a vow that matters? Your own life and happiness is not important anymore, it is the life and happiness of others that matters?

Sagamite:

You still have not said anything.

You argue it is important we marry who we love?

And then follow it up that we should endeavour staying married to someone we don't love any more?

So after you marry, love is irrelevant anymore, it is respecting a vow that matters? Your own life and happiness is not important anymore, it is the life and happiness of others that matters?

Saga open up your heart. When majority of people go into marriage for whatever reason, the guy and the lady happily agreed to "stay together" against all odds, and whether we like to believe it or not, love existed.

In a "marital union", you can't just pack your bags and leave because you have finally found who you think you are now "inlove" with. That search should have been done before now, or rather the waiting (which majority of people lack the patience to).

Some people have done it, it is nothing new, but not really advice -able. The kids and their emotions should be thought of. True Love sometimes, involves sacrifices, and such sacrifice can come in different forms, you can sacrifice your friendship to be with the one you love or your family to be with the one you love, or sacrifice the
love to be with your friends and family. The choice is totally ours to make.

Toyinletstalk:
Saga open up your heart. When majority of people go into marriage for whatever reason, the guy and the lady happily agreed to "stay together" against all odds, and whether we like to believe it or not, love existed.

In a "marital union", you can't just pack your bags and leave because you have finally found who you think you are now "inlove" with. That search should have been done before now, or rather the waiting (which majority of people lack the patience to).

Some people have done it, it is nothing new, but not really advice -able. The kids and their emotions should be thought of. True Love sometimes, involves sacrifices, and such sacrifice can come in different forms, you can sacrifice your friendship to be with the one you love or your family to be with the one you love, or sacrifice the
love to be with your friends and family. The choice is totally ours to make.

There has been no point where I said love did not or cannot exist prior to getting married. What I have been asking you is what to do when it dies and is replaced.

You said that search should have been done before? Are you saying love is a permanency?

It is not transient and/or evanescent?

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"? Are you selling me a "real man" capsule pill?

Sagamite:

There has been no point where I said love did not or cannot exist prior to getting married. What I have been asking you is what to do when it dies and is replaced.

You said that search should have been done before? Are you saying love is a permanency?

It is not transient and/or evanescent?

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"? Are you selling me a "real man" capsule pill?

Lol...you crack me up. It depends on how you see it. I have never seen a marraige where the man or woman gets up one day and says to the other spouse, "I am sorry, I don't love you anymore, the love I feel or felt has ended". And what will follow will be a pat on the back with kids giving that partner a hug and kiss for making a wonderful statement.There could be resolved differences, later on though, but at that moment, No! It won't be amicable. No matter what happens, a division already exist.

In the event that who you fall inlove with is a friend's girlfriend, No, it won't be funny because you will have to choose who you really want to be with, your friend or your girl or the family. Either way, you will still have to make a choice.

Love comes at different times in one's life, it is not something we expect, it just happens, majority of the times, we do not recognize it, and by the time we do, it is usually too late, either one is already married or they are worlds apart.

Toyinletstalk:
Lol...you crack me up. It depends on how you see it. I have never seen a marraige where the man or woman gets up one day and says to the other spouse, "I am sorry, I don't love you anymore, the love I feel or felt has ended". And what will follow will be a pat on the back with kids giving that partner a hug and kiss for making a wonderful statement.There could be resolved differences, later on though, but at that moment, No! It won't be amicable. No matter what happens, a division already exist.

In the event that who you fall inlove with is a friend's girlfriend, No, it won't be funny because you will have to choose who you really want to be with, your friend or your girl or the family. Either way, you will still have to make a choice.

Wow!

I am amazed the way you decided to use your formed up specific scenario description as a general representation and then still not answer my questions.

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"?

Toyinletstalk:
Love comes at different times in one's life, it is not something we expect, it just happens, majority of the times, we do not recognize it, and by the time we do, it is usually too late, either one is already married or they are worlds apart.

So is it a permanency?

When it comes, it should be ignored?

Sagamite:


Wow!

I am amazed the way you decided to use your formed up specific scenario description as a general representation and then still not answer my questions.

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"?



So is it a permanency?

When it comes, it should be ignored?

Sorry had to go back to bed. Where were we??

Formed up scenario? You and I know that such exist, and truly relationshps and problems encountered are unique to the individuals involved. So it is not a scenerio for all. That particular one, came from a lady, and I used that as an example.

Permanency Marraige is a permanent thing whether we agree on that or not. The heart chooses whoever and you cannot change it. Better to be with who your heart chooses.

When married and the feelings come, especially for another, ignore and discipline yourself. Ones integrity should be seen through our actions and the decisions we make. So yes, ignore.

Toyinletstalk:
Sorry had to go back to bed. Where were we??

Formed up scenario? You and I know that such exist, and truly relationshps and problems encountered are unique to the individuals involved. So it is not a scenerio for all. That particular one, came from a lady, and I used that as an example.

Permanency Marraige is a permanent thing whether we agree on that or not. The heart chooses whoever and you cannot change it. Better to be with who your heart chooses.

When married and the feelings come, especially for another, ignore and discipline yourself. Ones integrity should be seen through our actions and the decisions we make. So yes, ignore.

Where did I say the scenario did not exist?

I think you are struggling to understand the strands that come up in a complex debate and it is overwhelming you. How old are you?

Marriage is a permanency?

Lets park that for now because it was not even what I asked you.

Lets start over again. I will repeat the questions. Read carefully and take time to comprehend them:

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"?

Are you saying love is a permanency? When it comes, it should be ignored?

Sagamite:

Where did I say the scenario did not exist?

I think you are struggling to understand the strands that come up in a complex debate and it is overwhelming you. How old are you?

Marriage is a permanency?

Lets park that for now because it was not even what I asked you.

Lets start over again. I will repeat the questions. Read carefully and take time to comprehend them:

So you cannot choose love and still maintain a relationship with friends and family you want to maintain a relationship with (e.g. your kids)? You cannot leave your partner and still love or be connected to your kids? It has to be fatalistic? "If you leave your wife, you are abandoning your kids"?

Are you saying love is a permanency? When it comes, it should be ignored?

Sagamite, all your questions have been answered already. But let me make it clearer.You can choose love and still maintain your relationship with your friends and family, depending on the "circumstances" that surrounds it.
If you leave your wife does not necessarily mean you have abandoned your kids, you can still maintain a healthy relationship with your kids, the new wife or bride is still "the other woman". Though, I have a very close friend whose husband left her and also abandoned his kids.

True love has a permanent feelings to it. It cannot die. I don't know of the type of love you are referring to though, for me, true love is real and forever.

Choosing to ignore how you feel is totally up to the person in question. If the feelings of your wife and kids matter, ignore it because they truly will not understand.

Toyinletstalk:

Sagamite, all your questions have been answered already. But let me make it clearer.You can choose love and still maintain your relationship with your friends and family, depending on the "circumstances" that surrounds it.
If you leave your wife does not necessarily mean you have abandoned your kids, you can still maintain a healthy relationship with your kids, the new wife or bride is still "the other woman". Though, I have a very close friend whose husband left her and also abandoned his kids.

No, you had not answered my questions.

Now you just woke up and answered the first part.

Great.

Toyinletstalk:
True love has a permanent feelings to it. It cannot die. I don't know of the type of love you are referring to though, for me, true love is real and forever.

Choosing to ignore how you feel is totally up to the person in question. If the feelings of your wife and kids matter, ignore it because they truly will not understand.

True love is permanent?

So it is logical to conclude, you believe any love that is not permanent is not true love.

So love is not a conditional response? I take it that if the man you love starts battering you, you are the type that will stay because you love him? Or if the man you love cheats on you a few times, you will stay with him because you love him? And if you do decide to leave him, you will never love any other man because your feeling is permanently with your ex?

Sagamite:

No, you had not answered my questions.

Now you just woke up and answered the first part.

Great.



True love is permanent?

So it is logical to conclude, you believe any love that is not permanent is not true love.

So love is not a conditional response? I take it that if the man you love starts battering you, you are the type that will stay because you love him? Or if the man you love cheats on you a few times, you will stay with him because you love him? And if you do decide to leave him, you will never love any other man because your feeling is permanently with your ex?

True love is forever!!!! And it is unconditional
We all need to master it. You can only love one intensely. Intense feeling is usually accompanied with intense problems. So the "unconditional love" cannot be without problems that is how what you truly feel is tested.

Some people have mastered their feelings, hence you wonder why they can stay with a man who is a drunk, a woman beater, a cheat or in the case of a man, a lady who fights with the nation. That right there is true love. When you choose to stay and love someone irrespective of their shortcomings, that is so unconditional and real.

I can stay with a cheat, I can stay with a drunk, a woman-beater, (not so much, because I hate violence) so I prefer to just leave and let him get his act together. Another thing is true love can't be one sided, the "two hearts" really beat as one. So it is 50-50. I can choose to love as many people as I want, but only one will always stand out.

Toyinletstalk:
True love is forever!!!! And it is unconditional
We all need to master it. You can only love one intensely. Intense feeling is usually accompanied with intense problems. So the "unconditional love" cannot be without problems that is how what you truly feel is tested.

Some people have mastered their feelings, hence you wonder why they can stay with a man who is a drunk, a woman beater, a cheat or in the case of a man, a lady who fights with the nation. That right there is true love. When you choose to stay and love someone irrespective of their shortcomings, that is so unconditional and real.

I can stay with a cheat, I can stay with a drunk, a woman-beater, (not so much, because I hate violence) so I prefer to just leave and let him get his act together. Another thing is true love can't be one sided, the "two hearts" really beat as one. So it is 50-50. I can choose to love as many people as I want, but only one will always stand out.

Wow!

Another paradoxical contradiction.

You said "True love is forever!!!! And it is unconditional", then you go ahead and said "Another thing is true love can't be one sided, the "two hearts" really beat as one".

Which one is it? Love is conditional or it is not?

Sagamite:

Wow!

Another paradoxical contradiction.

You said "True love is forever!!!! And it is unconditional", then you go ahead and said "Another thing is true love can't be one sided, the "two hearts" really beat as one".

Which one is it? Love is conditional or it is not?

Saga lol, this is not going to end soon, or is it

Look at everything with your heart and not the brain. The real issue about love should not make sense. Love is love.

Love is unconditional. Let me give you an insight to the real true love I am talking about and the "two hearts that beat as one". If you have ever loved and you found it hard or still find it hard after years to get over that person, read on "twin flame love". Type it into Google search engine.

Toyinletstalk:
Saga lol, this is not going to end soon, or is it

Look at everything with your heart and not the brain. The real issue about love should not make sense. Love is love.

Love is unconditional. Let me give you an insight to the real true love I am talking about and the "two hearts that beat as one". If you have ever loved and you found it hard or still find it hard after years to get over that person, read on "twin flame love". Type it into Google search engine.

Ehen!

I knew!

My friend, what you need to stop doing is reading these rubbish love stories and using it to form your fantasies.

Come back to the real world.

Love is conditional and is definitely not permanent.

I am sure if you find your "true love", the one that makes you feel on top of the world, like the only girl in the world and then later you find out he is sexually molesting your child, your love will disappear. Except you want to convince me at all cost that you are sick in the head.

I am sure you are not, so stop chatting opata!

Sagamite:

Ehen!

I knew!

My friend, what you need to stop doing is reading these rubbish love stories and using it to form your fantasies.

Come back to the real world.

Love is conditional and is definitely not permanent.

I am sure if you find your "true love", the one that makes you feel on top of the world, like the only girl in the world and then later you find out he is sexually molesting your child, your love will disappear. Except you want to convince me at all cost that you are sick in the head.

I am sure you are not, so stop chatting opata!

Lol....you are funny..you are entitled to your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their's. I won't flog you for thinking the way you think. And you should not flog me too **winks***

But believe is something that is really strong and until you search within and ask why do you really choose to believe something or not? And get your answers, believing or not believing will not make a meaning.

So, answer the "what if" questions. What if everything you choose not to believe is really true?? I know you will direct the question back at me, what if what I believe is not true. I have nothing to loose, better to have believed and live to love, than not to have. For me, it would be a win-win in the end; not shutting out other "possibilities".

Toyinletstalk:

Lol....you are funny..you are entitled to your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their's. I won't flog you for thinking the way you think. And you should not flog me too **winks***

But believe is something that is really strong and until you search within and ask why do you really choose to believe something or not? And get your answers, believing or not believing will not make a meaning.

So, answer the "what if" questions. What if everything you choose not to believe is really true?? I know you will direct the question back at me, what if what I believe is not true. I have nothing to loose, better to have believed and live to love, than not to have. For me, it would be a win-win in the end; not shutting out other "possibilities".

What if all I choose not to believe is true?

Apart from the odds being far more in my favour considering all rational evidence, I have nothing to lose.

I live my life with certain philosophies:

- Love is conditional, transient and evanescent.
- I own nobody and nobody owns me.
- I owe no one anything and no one owns me anything.
- I will enjoy my life.

There is no way I can have regrets based on those philosophies.

At best all I can offer (if I choose to) is loyalty.

Only loyalty and familiarity are the permanencies possible in relationships when considering overwhelming generality.

Even my love for my kids will be conditional!

Sagamite:

What if all I choose not to believe is true?

Apart from the odds being far more in my favour considering all rational evidence, I have nothing to lose.

I live my life with certain philosophies:

- Love is conditional, transient and evanescent.
- I own nobody and nobody owns me.
- I owe no one anything and no one owns me anything.
- I will enjoy my life.

There is no way I can have regrets based on those philosophies.

At best all I can offer (if I choose to) is loyalty.

Only loyalty and familiarity are the permanencies possible in relationships when considering overwhelming generality.

Even my love for my kids will be conditional!

okay. Saga, I hear you.

Familiarity could be a permanent thing, who you know, you know.
Loyalty? Capital No!!!!! One, may choose to be loyal to you today and tomorrow he/she turns against you.

-True love is unconditional my friend. Your philosophies make sense. Whether you believe or not, someone owns you.