A "Christ-like" life is one of purpose and complete devotion to the gospel of salvation... not one that is filled with confused misdirection.

Is this the definition of Christ-like? That must mean that Christ himself was not Christlike when he said the following:

34And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. 35And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Matt 26

Pastor AIO:

Is this the definition of Christ-like? That must mean that Christ himself was not Christlike when he said the following:

34And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. 35And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Matt 26

My brother I tire oh.

This partisanism was not why Jesus - who broke every partition - died. Or more like he died so we won't have this kind of partisanism in our outlook on the kingdom of God where all who thirst and hunger are welcome to drink and eat that which costs them nothing, but they have everything to gain.

Pastor AIO:

What is the difference between a christian and a born again?

What is the difference between a christian and a geniune christian?

What is the difference between a genuine born again and someone who is born again?

What are the criteria that we will use to know one from the other in these cases?


I have no idea where I mentioned church activities. Perhaps you could point it out to me.

Now, I might seem a bit harsh with my retorts, but the reason for that is that I've become aware of a pattern whereby one person who calls himself a christian damns another person who calls himself a christian simply because they do not agree on something or they feel differently about something. The damning is often suffused with the most despicable hypocrisy and has it's basis, I believe, in that fact that the existence of someone, anyone, who thinks or feels differently, whether that person is a christian or atheist, is a threat to their certainty in their chosen belief.

An armed robber who claims to be a christian yet goes out to rob, kill and maim people, come back and pay tithe in the name of being a christian is he a christian indeed?
Somebody claims to be a born again without having the real born again touch and experience, is he truly born again?
Whether you agree or not, the world is filled with fakes and original and it affects every aspect of life.You have fake prophets fake pastors, fake christians etc. As long as there is an original, the possibility of having a fake is almost 100 percent. Even the devil himself sometimes can appear like an angel of light. If you want to lump anybody who claims to be a chrstian as genuinely born again then you are making a big mistake. You can be as harsh as you want to be but just know that you dont have the monopoly of being harsh.

^^
But a robber that steals and pays tithe is a Christian, right?

alexleo:

An armed robber who claims to be a christian yet goes out to rob, kill and maim people, come back and pay tithe in the name of being a christian is he a christian indeed?
Somebody claims to be a born again without having the real born again touch and experience, is he truly born again?
Whether you agree or not, the world is filled with fakes and original and it affects every aspect of life.You have fake prophets fake pastors, fake christians etc. As long as there is an original, the possibility of having a fake is almost 100 percent. Even the devil himself sometimes can appear like an angel of light. If you want to lump anybody who claims to be a chrstian as genuinely born again then you are making a big mistake. You can be as harsh as you want to be but just know that you dont have the monopoly of being harsh.

funny write up,
. . . but an armed robber who was crucified near jesus made heaven, just for scolding his friend not to ask jesus questions.
now does it make sense? being born again? does it matter paying tithe? etc. when a simple act even at the point of dead can guarantee one heaven?

Kay 17: ^^
But a robber that steals and pays tithe is a Christian, right?

You are confused. Read my post again if you care to. This time around with a balanced mindset, thanks.

Scyllapatron:

funny write up,
. . . but an armed robber who was crucified near jesus made heaven, just for scolding his friend not to ask jesus questions.
now does it make sense? being born again? does it matter paying tithe? etc. when a simple act even at the point of dead can guarantee one heaven?

He repented of his evil deeds and asked Jesus for help. A broken and contrite heart, God will not reject. If you pray to God with such a repentant heart he will also forgive you of your sins and make you a heaven candidate. Read the bible with a balanced mind oga. You people always like to attack the scriptures. Na wa for una.

alexleo:

An armed robber who claims to be a christian yet goes out to rob, kill and maim people, come back and pay tithe in the name of being a christian is he a christian indeed?
Somebody claims to be a born again without having the real born again touch and experience, is he truly born again?
Whether you agree or not, the world is filled with fakes and original and it affects every aspect of life.You have fake prophets fake pastors, fake christians etc. As long as there is an original, the possibility of having a fake is almost 100 percent. Even the devil himself sometimes can appear like an angel of light. If you want to lump anybody who claims to be a chrstian as genuinely born again then you are making a big mistake. You can be as harsh as you want to be but just know that you dont have the monopoly of being harsh.

Please you did not answer my most pertinent question. I'll take the blame because I didn't put it in bold. I'll repeat:

What are the criteria that we will use to know one from the other in these cases?


Or to put it in your own terms... What is the 'real born again touch and experience'?

Yes, many claim to be christians, like your armed robber example. But what is the criteria for knowing a true christian from not. And while we are mulling over these questions I want you, and all of us reading this thread, to bear in mind that it actually has nothing to do with the point that the OP is making. We are just entertaining this line of reasoning cos I'm temporarily getting a kick out of it.

On your fake and original rhetoric I also have another question, equally irrelevant to the core issue of this thread, which is .... Is it possible to have a fake Satan?

You can be as harsh as you want to be over matters that pain you enough, that is your prerogative it doesn't add or diminish your argument in any way. It just tells me that the issue is really doing you. The fact on the ground so far however is that there is a discussion on the OP and your best argument to put forward is to cast aspersions on the genuineness of the OPs christianity. That is just so Pathetic!!
That suggests desperation to me. The OPs status as a real or fake christian has nothing to do with the points he raised. Even an atheist could raise the same points and they would still be valid. Jesus himself taught doctrines that implied something similar to what the OP was saying.

Why do you and others have to bring up the matter of the genuineness of his faith? why the derailment of the topic? Why why why? I feel the answer in deep within yourself and the way you feel about the issue. It perturbs you. I would like to encourage you to eschew cowardice and face the issue head on.

Ooops!! I believe I owe you an apology. I've just read the previous page again. Your issues with genuine or fake christianity has nothing to do with the OP. You were talking about AMan from Mars. I was mixing it up with the response that Image123 gave to the OP.

I beg your pardon.

Pastor AIO:
Please you did not answer my most pertinent question. I'll take the blame because I didn't put it in bold. I'll repeat:
What are the criteria that we will use to know one from the other in these cases?

Or to put it in your own terms... What is the 'real born again touch and experience'?
Yes, many claim to be christians, like your armed robber example. But what is the criteria for knowing a true christian from not. And while we are mulling over these questions I want you, and all of us reading this thread, to bear in mind that it actually has nothing to do with the point that the OP is making. We are just entertaining this line of reasoning cos I'm temporarily getting a kick out of it.
On your fake and original rhetoric I also have another question, equally irrelevant to the core issue of this thread, which is .... Is it possible to have a fake Satan?
You can be as harsh as you want to be over matters that pain you enough, that is your prerogative it doesn't add or diminish your argument in any way. It just tells me that the issue is really doing you. The fact on the ground so far however is that there is a discussion on the OP and your best argument to put forward is to cast aspersions on the genuineness of the OPs christianity. That is just so Pathetic!!
That suggests desperation to me. The OPs status as a real or fake christian has nothing to do with the points he raised. Even an atheist could raise the same points and they would still be valid. Jesus himself taught doctrines that implied something similar to what the OP was saying.
Why do you and others have to bring up the matter of the genuineness of his faith? why the derailment of the topic? Why why why? I feel the answer in deep within yourself and the way you feel about the issue. It perturbs you. I would like to encourage you to eschew cowardice and face the issue head on.

Pastor AIO: Ooops!! I believe I owe you an apology. I've just read the previous page again. Your issues with genuine or fake christianity has nothing to do with the OP. You were talking about AMan from Mars. I was mixing it up with the response that Image123 gave to the OP.

I beg your pardon.

my response had almost nothing to do with your attacks on him. i'll respond to that later though. i simply stated a neglected theological truth. Perhaps you read it with the prism of its Image123's post. Nobody, not me nor the OP can be a deep belieever all his life. All have sinned, need to repent and then believe, And that life of believing is no usually a DEEP believing all of life. Perhaps you need to go re-read what i posted, this time less skimming .

Image123:
my response had almost nothing to do with your attacks on him. i'll respond to that later though. i simply stated a neglected theological truth. Perhaps you read it with the prism of its Image123's post. Nobody, not me nor the OP can be a deep belieever all his life. All have sinned, need to repent and then believe, And that life of believing is no usually a DEEP believing all of life. Perhaps you need to go re-read what i posted, this time less skimming .

Lol brother Image123, looks like you're taking the phrase "all my life" literally. He probably meant since he was old enough to understand these things (and I doubt it's impossible for one to have been a deep believer since such a time as that).

InesQor:
Lol brother Image123, looks like you're taking the phrase "all my life" literally. He probably meant since he was old enough to understand these things (and I doubt it's impossible for one to have been a deep believer since such a time as that).

Yes i took it literally or it would be meaningless to me. i made a one liner or perhaps two liner comment on that and AIO has been on that case since. i fear oh. i'm not in doubt or belief about the OP's credibility or geniuneness, i simply stated stuff based on a literal comprehension.

texanomaly:

No one really is interested in your life... but you have to realize that you lose all rights to privacy the minute you post about your life on a web forum. I'm sorry that you feel upset but you have to realize that others are reading your thoughts and it would be completely unfair to leave them with a false idea what christianity really is... because your life and thoughts are the complete antithesis of the christian life. Christian living is not about trying to do good things (aka Christ-like life) but about genuine repentance and faith in the Lord. You may not like the truth but the bible is in complete opposition to everything you said.

As i said before, if you'd like to keep your life private, keep it off the web.

qstar:

Here comes the tyrant fundamentalist... dylan, though hypocritical.

your point being?

InesQor:
I'm curious, Davidylan. Are you saying a "Christ-like life" for a "true child of God" which is a "complete devotion to the gospel" does not involve any sin or any mistakes, and there is no wavering, no doubt, no cases of confusion, no happenstances of misdirection, no questions, no "trying", no "well, maybe"s?

I said no such thing. First off, let us define what a Christ-like life is FROM THE BIBLE and not based on feelings or emotions - Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world,3 but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. You cannot do the above when you are unsaved and living a life of complete ambivalence to who Christ truly is. As i said earlier, too many people misuse the term "Christ-like life" to refer to their own fleshly attempts to live like nice people. There are many nice muslims too.

Pastor AIO:

Is this the definition of Christ-like? That must mean that Christ himself was not Christlike when he said the following:

34And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. 35And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Matt 26

I wasn't sure what the point was.

davidylan:

No one really is interested in your life... but you have to realize that you lose all rights to privacy the minute you post about your life on a web forum. I'm sorry that you feel upset but you have to realize that others are reading your thoughts and it would be completely unfair to leave them with a false idea what christianity really is... because your life and thoughts are the complete antithesis of the christian life. Christian living is not about trying to do good things (aka Christ-like life) but about genuine repentance and faith in the Lord. You may not like the truth but the bible is in complete opposition to everything you said.

As i said before, if you'd like to keep your life private, keep it off the web.

To be honest, I don't mind bring my thoughts, feelings and beliefs here. You are right. If I expose those things here, I need to be prepared for comments.

@ bolded...You think that trying to do what is right is not Christian living? You said yourself it is repentance and faith. I may not have come across as someone who has faith and is repentant. I see that now. I have to say that if we are repentant, that implies we have sinned. No one is perfect. I dare say even you. With that said we are ALL trying to do what's right. By that I mean keeping the commandments. I should have been more specific.

I know I am imperfect, so if I'm honest, I have to say I "try" to do what is right. I've said it before...no one is perfect, but they can be perfectly repentant. Fortunately for those who have faith and are not perfect, there is the Atonement. If we were all perfect, there would have been no need for Christ to suffer and die.
That was not a part of Gods plan. He knew we would make mistakes. To err is human. He had a plan. He has a plan.

I'm glad that you feel so strongly about your faith. Be blessed.

I'll post a question I posed to TomboGodson/joshTheFirst sometime back.

If Boko Haram asked you to sacrifice your life for the release of the Chibok girls, and you did so fully aware you'd come back to life after a day, would that still count as a sacrifice?

Would it be a greater sacrifice compared to one who who does so with no hope of resurrection?

You are absolutely right brother. Jesus needs to remain on that cross for ever to justify his sacrifices . So far he has been the biggest fraud ever known according to the bible.

texanomaly:

To be honest, I don't mind bring my thoughts, feelings and beliefs here. You are right. If I expose those things here, I need to be prepared for comments.

@ bolded...You think that trying to do what is right is not Christian living? You said yourself it is repentance and faith. I may not have come across as someone who has faith and is repentant. I see that now. I have to say that if we are repentant, that implies we have sinned. No one is perfect. I dare say even you. With that said we are ALL trying to do what's right. By that I mean keeping the commandments. I should have been more specific.

I know I am imperfect, so if I'm honest, I have to say I "try" to do what is right. I've said it before...no one is perfect, but they can be perfectly repentant. Fortunately for those who have faith and are not perfect, there is the Atonement. If we were all perfect, there would have been no need for Christ to suffer and die.
That was not a part of Gods plan. He knew we would make mistakes. To err is human. He had a plan. He has a plan.

I'm glad that you feel so strongly about your faith. Be blessed.

I'm not sure you got the point at all. The issue is not about people being perfect (we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God), but it is about being saved by faith and living according to the leading of the Holy Ghost. Such a life does not need to "try to do right". Trying to do right by yourself outside the help of Jesus, is works of flesh which brother James strenuously cautions against in chapter 2 of his book.

The pharisees also kept the commandments (far better than you even) and were still the recipients of the harshest criticism from Christ Himself. the only reason i speak up is that i have seen the gradual creeping in of this false notion that somehow all it takes to be a christian is to "live right", "do good", "be nice" to all people... those do not a true christian make. At best you're just a moral sinner. You may as well kick off the toga of false, lifeless religiosity and enjoy a beer.

^^^bless your heart...

alexleo:

You are confused. Read my post again if you care to. This time around with a balanced mindset, thanks.

Forget about the claims. Focus on being a Christian. So I ask again, is a robber who steals, maims and then tithes; a Christian?

davidylan:

I wasn't sure what the point was.

The point is to enquire whether you think that being christlike means you cannot accommodate doubts. I brought the instance of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane as an example of Jesus being in doubt. I then asked if that would mean that Jesus was being unchristlike.

davidylan:

I wasn't sure what the point was.

The point is to enquire whether you think that being christlike means you cannot accommodate doubts. I brought the instance of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane as an example of Jesus being in doubt. I then asked if that would mean that Jesus was being unchristlike.

A "Christ-like" life is one of purpose and complete devotion to the gospel of salvation... not one that is filled with confused misdirection.

Image123:
my response had almost nothing to do with your attacks on him. i'll respond to that later though. i simply stated a neglected theological truth. Perhaps you read it with the prism of its Image123's post. Nobody, not me nor the OP can be a deep belieever all his life. All have sinned, need to repent and then believe, And that life of believing is no usually a DEEP believing all of life. Perhaps you need to go re-read what i posted, this time less skimming .

It's interesting that you consider my posts to Alexleo as 'attacks'. That tells me quite a bit.

Unless you're trying to derail, I don't see what you've contributed to the issue being discussed on this thread. The Issue raised by the OP. Can you explain how anything you've said is relevant?

Pastor AIO:

The point is to enquire whether you think that being christlike means you cannot accommodate doubts. I brought the instance of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane as an example of Jesus being in doubt. I then asked if that would mean that Jesus was being unchristlike.

Absolutely not. Doubt, fear... are all part of the human condition and no amount of being saved will take that away. there is however a difference between the occasional doubt and living a life that is in open rebellion to God while pretending to be a "christian". I sense it all the time here, too many people are unwilling to walk the walk of faith, however they want to put on a cloak of false morality, assuming just being a "good person" is sufficient to get them into heaven... wherever that is.

davidylan:

Absolutely not. Doubt, fear... are all part of the human condition and no amount of being saved will take that away. there is however a difference between the occasional doubt and living a life that is in open rebellion to God while pretending to be a "christian". I sense it all the time here, too many people are unwilling to walk the walk of faith, however they want to put on a cloak of false morality, assuming just being a "good person" is sufficient to get them into heaven... wherever that is.

How do you envision someone being 'genuinely repentant' without trying to be a good person? Is there any way to be repentant without actually changing your behaviour?

I find your separation of 'trying to do good' and 'repentance' hard to understand.

Christian living is not about trying to do good things (aka Christ-like life) but about genuine repentance and faith in the Lord.

Pastor AIO:

How do you envision someone being 'genuinely repentant' without trying to be a good person? Is there any way to be repentant without actually changing your behaviour?

I find your separation of 'trying to do good' and 'repentance' hard to understand.

i thought it was quite easy. John 3 is a good place to start. Nicodemus was a good man... but unless he got born again, he was no better than a self righteous pharisee.

davidylan:

i thought it was quite easy. John 3 is a good place to start. Nicodemus was a good man... but unless he got born again, he was no better than a self righteous pharisee.

John 3 does not say anywhere that Nicodemus was a good man. but that aside. You did not answer my question. How can you be truly repentant but your actions do not show it?

28“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 29And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. 30And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you

Matthew 21

34And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Pastor AIO:

John 3 does not say anywhere that Nicodemus was a good man. but that aside. You did not answer my question. How can you be truly repentant but your actions do not show it?

28“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 29And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. 30And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you

Matthew 21

34And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

It is implied in verses 1 and 10. Nicodemus was a pharisee and a teacher of the law. These were the goody two shoes of the jewish society at that time. They knew the law, they taught the law and they were the keepers of the law.

I thought i had answered your question. When you're repentant, you're actions betray that. However, a meek and nice attitude does not mean you are repentant.

Pastor AIO:

It's interesting that you consider my posts to Alexleo as 'attacks'. That tells me quite a bit.

Unless you're trying to derail, I don't see what you've contributed to the issue being discussed on this thread. The Issue raised by the OP. Can you explain how anything you've said is relevant?

You were on his case, you referred to your own posts as "retorts", you described them as harsh, and later had to apologize to him. You don't have to carry cutlass or gun to attack bro. May you see in Jesus' name. If i have time, i''ll try to be clearer than the post i gave wrt the OP.

Kay 17:

Forget about the claims. Focus on being a Christian. So I ask again, is a robber who steals, maims and then tithes; a Christian?

I said it before and I'm saying it again- a robber(whether armed or not is not a Christian). No amount of tithing can make a robber a christian. You don't even know what it means to be a christian.

davidylan:

i thought it was quite easy. John 3 is a good place to start. Nicodemus was a good man... but unless he got born again, he was no better than a self righteous pharisee.

REPENTANCE IS DIFFERENT FROM BEING 'BORN AGAIN'.