Esiri111:



I believe In GOD.

I was referring to SQN.

plaetton:

No sir.

Consider for example. An incident last year, infact several incidents over the years, where people , always mostly women and children, were trampled to death during night time religious crusades on a weekday.
Then as usual, no one takes responsibility, no one asks questions, no one is compensated, all because it is religion.

Aside from the anger and sadness for the loss of life, the lack of responsibility , remorse and compensation, any rational person, irrespective of religious orientation, should question why a group of people would deprive themselves and their toddlers and schoo aged children badly needed sleep to come out in a weeknight to seek promises of blessing and personal miracles, and in the process lose their lives.

Every rational person should ask what type of system that engenders this common recourse to magic and miracles to face existential problems, and who profits from it ?

This is what we rant here. It is the least that we can all do.

He claims he doesn't believe in any God, yet spends most of his time berating those that share his unbelief in any God. Tell me if he isn't out of his mind

dalaman:


This is the only way religion thrives by condemning and demonizing those who do not believe. An honest and good hindu, muslim, taosit etc can never be considered good in the eyes of the christian, same was a good an honest and good Jew can never be considered good in the eyes of a muslim. You can only be good in the real sense of the word when you accept their religious position else deep down you are deserving of punishment for your unbelief, unbelief in mythical stories that have no evidence to support them.

That is why Christians cannot stand the Dalai Lama. He is a shining example of what a Christian cannot ever be, a man of compassion , peace and love.

plaetton:
Every rational person should ask what type of system that engenders this common recourse to magic and miracles to face existential problems, and who profits from it ?

This is what we rant here. It is the least that we can all do.

Ranting is not asking questions. Quite the opposite. It demonstrates an intellectual limit, and inability to be rational and ask questions.

The modern science and scientific scholarship that you praise so highly, it is not based on ranting. Strength of argument is not about ranting, swearing or how many exclamation marks you can fit into every sentence.

People rant because they are adopting a style of communication that impresses them. Their world view has been built by years of listening to ranters -- other folk who lack intellectual depth. Immediately, I know that they are not going to be posting anything with any weight.

sinequanon:


Ranting is not asking questions. Quite the opposite. It demonstrates an intellectual limit, and inability to be rational and ask questions.

The modern science and scientific scholarship that you praise so highly, it is not based on ranting. Strength of argument is not about ranting, swearing or how many exclamation marks you can fit into every sentence.

People rant because they are adopting a style of communication that impresses them. Their world view has been built by years of listening to ranters -- other folk who lack intellectual depth. Immediately, I know that they are not going to be posting anything with any weight.

You still don't get it sir.
I keep reminding that this is the religious section. There are no written rules for discourse. We are not here to present academic papers and peer reviewable materials.

Can you engage boko haram or alqueda in rational discussion about their worlviews?
I bet not.
I see every Abrahamic religious person as a potential boko haram, even if it doesn't involve violent tendecies.

Where you live, the religious beliefs of your neighbor is not a burden and threat to your well being and life.
Here in Nigeria, it is.
I don't need academic papers to fight back.

Redlyn:
That article is just rife with the typical brainwashed myopic view of a limited "christian".

That article judges a person who has committed no crime, no evil, no wrong except to demand extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims with words like "arrogant", "fool", "rebellious", "immoral", "corrupt", "abominable", "hopeless" etc etc and then claim to be a "christian".

This is precisely why religion is poison and I will keep me and mine clear away from it.

Good for you. Keep away from religion. But finds Gods love and salvation while you're at it. Don't confuse one for another.

dalaman:


This is the only way religion thrives by condemning and demonizing those who do not believe. An honest and good hindu, muslim, taosit etc can never be considered good in the eyes of the christian, same was a good an honest and good Jew can never be considered good in the eyes of a muslim. You can only be good in the real sense of the word when you accept their religious position else deep down you are deserving of punishment for your unbelief, unbelief in mythical stories that have no evidence to support them.

Nope. Its not unbelief that brings condemnation. You've got it all wrong.

People are already condemned because of the wrong things they do. Wrong doing brings condemnation, not wrong believing.

plaetton:


You still don't get it sir.
I keep reminding that this is the religious section. There are no written rules for discourse. We are not here to present academic papers and peer reviewable materials.

Can you engage boko haram or alqueda in rational discussion about their worlviews?
I bet not.
I see every Abrahamic religious person as a potential boko haram, even if it doesn't involve violent tendecies.

Where you live, the religious beliefs of your neighbor is not a burden and threat to your well being and life.
Here in Nigeria, it is.
I don't need academic papers to fight back.

Quite unfortunate.

Joshthefirst:
Good for you. Keep away from religion. But finds Gods love and salvation while you're at it. Don't confuse one for another.

Nope. Its not unbelief that brings condemnation. You've got it all wrong.

People are already condemned because of the wrong things they do. Wrong doing brings condemnation, not wrong believing.

Oh really, josh?

So then, a lot of good morally upright and compassionate atheists will make heaven, ahead of a lot hypocritical Christians.
Can you agree with this, or will you contradict your own words, as you normally do?

Joshthefirst:
Quite unfortunate.

Yes.
Boko haram and alqueda are not just reactionary actors.
It is a pattern and chain of thought that every judeo-christian adherent shares.

You, josh, for good example, have often justified the genocidal actions of yahweh with one rationalization or another.
In that way, what makes you different from boko haram.?
I am sure you massacre atheists in your dreams everyday.

plaetton:


Oh really, josh?

So then, a lot of good morally upright and compassionate atheists will make heaven, ahead of a lot hypocritical Christians.
Can you agree with this, or will you contradict your own words, as you normally do?

doing good doesn't get you to heaven. Because you still do bad. Imperfection is in all of us. But God has a remedy through his mercy...I'm sure you know the rest of the story

plaetton:


Yes.
Boko haram and alqueda are not just reactionary actors.
It is a pattern and chain of thought that every judeo-christian adherent shares.

You, josh, for good example, have often justified the genocidal actions of yahweh with one rationalization or another.
In that way, what makes you different from boko haram.?
I am sure you massacre atheists in your dreams everyday.

If the same joke was played on you I'm very sure you'd be offended. You compare me to terrorists now eh?

Joshthefirst:
If the same joke was played on you I'm very sure you'd be offended. You compare me to terrorists now eh?

No sir.
I am saying that religious thoughts and attidutes are all the same. From yahweh, moses, joshua, Elijah all the way to boko haram.

You cannot support yahwehs genocidal actions and the hypocritically condemn boko haram.

plaetton:


You still don't get it sir.
I keep reminding that this is the religious section. There are no written rules for discourse. We are not here to present academic papers and peer reviewable materials.

Can you engage boko haram or alqueda in rational discussion about their worlviews?
I bet not.
I see every Abrahamic religious person as a potential boko haram, even if it doesn't involve violent tendecies.

Where you live, the religious beliefs of your neighbor is not a burden and threat to your well being and life.
Here in Nigeria, it is.
I don't need academic papers to fight back.

I do get it. You are the same as the people you are criticizing. You have presented exactly the argument they would use, with roles switched.

However, I would be interested to find out how it is helping you.

I live where the religious beliefs of my neighbor is not a burden and threat to my well-being and life, BECAUSE after centuries of warfare and bloodshed, the penny dropped, and some people figured that "power" lay in composure.

Joshthefirst:
If the same joke was played on you I'm very sure you'd be offended. You compare me to terrorists now eh?

And by the way, a joke is joke, an accusation is an accusation.
That is something that you and your alterego Lastmessenger should learn.

I am still waiting for your apologies.

sinequanon:


I do get it. You are the same as the people you are criticizing. You have presented exactly the argument they would use, with roles switched.

However, I would be interested to find out how it is helping you.

I live where the religious beliefs of my neighbor is not a burden and threat to my well-being and life, BECAUSE after centuries of warfare and bloodshed, the penny dropped, and some people figured that "power" lay in composure.

Naivety.
Do we have to sit around for a few more centuries of bloodshed and warfare to roll back religious irrationality in our own lands?

If people, young people , can see that religion is not all that it's cracked up to be , then a future of bloodshed and warfare can be sidestepped.

No doubts, religion is responsible for our very low outputs in science and technology. The very things that we so much depend on in this age.
Religion puts Africans in a time warp that is rather incongruous to the challenges of the era.

plaetton:


Naivety.
Do we have to sit around for a few more centuries of bloodshed and warfare to roll back religious irrationality in our own lands?

If people, young people , can see that religion is not all that it's cracked up to be , then a future of bloodshed and warfare can be sidestepped.

No doubts, religion is responsible for our very low outputs in science and technology. The very things that we so much depend on in this age.
Religion puts Africans in a time warp that is rather incongruous to the challenges of the era.

You have missed the point. It took centuries of bloodshed and warfare because people back then were savage ranters.

Then some sane people started to come together and left the ranters to themselves. They built power bases that the ranters had no means of matching due to their inability to communicate, and they milked the ranters, aka riff-raff.

You are naive in thinking that ranting is going to get you anywhere. They are beginning to lose it here, in Britain, too, but a generation or two ago, they treasured what they called the stiff upper lip. They hated ranting. They saw ranters as ranging from riff-raff to subhuman (I am not joking). Now they are losing it, and their politics is starting to go down the sewers.

You keep talking about science and technology, whose seat of excellence was once the Islamic Middle East. The problem wasn't religion, it was emotion. Ranters, like animals, react to their emotions without thinking. That is why animals cannot build complex technology. Religion has sat side by side with technology for a long time. Ranting has not.

Joshthefirst:
Good for you. Keep away from religion. But finds Gods love and salvation while you're at it. Don't confuse one for another.

Nah thanks, I'll pass. You see, I am unable to accept the concept of salvation as it means I must accept that some will find damnation. And being the nice person I am, I infinitely prefer the idea that we all cease to exist in any form when we die on earth. It appears I am more merciful than the christian god

Joshthefirst:
Good for you. Keep away from religion. But finds Gods love and salvation while you're at it. Don't confuse one for another.

Nope. Its not unbelief that brings condemnation. You've got it all wrong.

People are already condemned because of the wrong things they do. Wrong doing brings condemnation, not wrong believing.

Are muslims and hindus saved according to christianity?

Joshthefirst:
doing good doesn't get you to heaven. Because you still do bad. Imperfection is in all of us. But God has a remedy through his mercy...I'm sure you know the rest of the story

Meaning God only has mercy on those that believe in the christian religion and not the muslim , hindu or buddist religion.

Joshthefirst:
doing good doesn't get you to heaven. Because you still do bad. Imperfection is in all of us. But God has a remedy through his mercy...I'm sure you know the rest of the story

You are Wonderful.
It is irrational thinking that will make someone to say that a religion of peace...where JESUS was bruised and never retaliated, Steven prayed for his killers even when being killed. Then someone is calling us potential Boko haram.
That's ILLOGICAL Enough.

plaetton:


Naivety.
Do we have to sit around for a few more centuries of bloodshed and warfare to roll back religious irrationality in our own lands?

If people, young people , can see that religion is not all that it's cracked up to be , then a future of bloodshed and warfare can be sidestepped.

No doubts, religion is responsible for our very low outputs in science and technology. The very things that we so much depend on in this age.
Religion puts Africans in a time warp that is rather incongruous to the challenges of the era.

You lack LOGICAL REASONING.
You can't even prove what u said.

plaetton:


And by the way, a joke is joke, an accusation is an accusation.
That is something that you and your alterego Lastmessenger should learn.

I am still waiting for your apologies.

now he accuses me of being someone else.

Joshthefirst:
doing good doesn't get you to heaven. Because you still do bad. Imperfection is in all of us. But God has a remedy through his mercy...I'm sure you know the rest of the story

Epic.

So doing good is not good enough because no matter how good you are, you are still bad?

What a very horrible, very sad philosophical framework.

I do not envy you, josh.
You have just given me a reason why I must rant.

plaetton:


Epic.

So doing good is not good enough because no matter how good you are, you are still bad?

What a very horrible, very sad philosophical framework.

I do not envy you, josh.
You have just given me a reason why I must rant.

Don't be foolish. Go to a court of law when you've been found guilty of embezzlement or murder or rape. Would they discharge you because you've had no record of wrong before? No. You'll be punished according to the law.

God is then righteous Judge. And look at yourself, guilty of wrong doing and depravities since you were little, till now. If any one goes to Gods court, they'd be condemned, especially yourself. That's why you need his mercy band grace. And he has made grace and mercy possible inspire of his righteousness, through the man, Jesus Christ.

I hope you arent going senile sir, because that sounds genius to me. Its more than philosophy. Try eastern mysticism if you want any "massaging" philosophy behind traditional practices. We deal with the real deal.

While people like me and plaetton were foolishly fighting God. The big one. While we were depraved in our hearts and minds, while we yet sinners, Christ died for us. All Gods idea. Believe him now.

Redlyn:


Nah thanks, I'll pass. You see, I am unable to accept the concept of salvation as it means I must accept that some will find damnation. And being the nice person I am, I infinitely prefer the idea that we all cease to exist in any form when we die on earth. It appears I am more merciful than the christian god

You're like a fantastical child. You don't want to believe that some would choose damnation over salvation because of sins deception. Abandon your childish ideals and face reality and get saved. Than you can convince as many as possible to choose salvation over damnation.

dalaman:


Meaning God only has mercy on those that believe in the christian religion and not the muslim , hindu or buddist religion.

No. God has mercy on those who rely on his mercy. Are you even trying to understand my words at all or have you closed your mind in dogma? Do you think its religion that saves?

There's no salvation in religion. No mercy either. Look upon the average man and you see a man who thinks his good in life is what will get him on a soft pedestal with God. No. His sin has condemned him already. But Gods great love and mercy and salvation is revealed through the sacrifice of the MAN Jesus. Godbis willing to save all those who trust in his salvation, his Jesus. No one else has or will be eligible to lay down his life as a sacrifice for sin that many of us may obtain Gods favor and love.





Plaetton, Notice how we speak about God now. We aren't even debating his existence anymore. That's self evident. You only seek a god to satisfy your tastes and whims. Unfortunately God will not be made in anyone's image. You must conform to the creator, not the other way around (I'm sure you'd be disappointed if you found a creator who would conform to you, belittling if you ask me). As for you, until you find a desirable god for yourself, you'll rather believe you're the aftermath of a cosmic accident. Quite unfortunate.

Joshthefirst:
Don't be foolish. Go to a court of law when you've been found guilty of embezzlement or murder or rape. Would they discharge you because you've had no record of wrong before? No. You'll be punished according to the law.

God is then righteous Judge. And look at yourself, guilty of wrong doing and depravities since you were little, till now. If any one goes to Gods court, they'd be condemned, especially yourself. That's why you need his mercy band grace. And he has made grace and mercy possible inspire of his righteousness, through the man, Jesus Christ.

I hope you arent going senile sir, because that sounds genius to me. Its more than philosophy. Try eastern mysticism if you want any "massaging" philosophy behind traditional practices. We deal with the real deal.

While people like me and plaetton were foolishly fighting God. The big one. While we were depraved in our hearts and minds, while we yet sinners, Christ died for us. All Gods idea. Believe him now.

Joshthefirst /lastmessenger,
I am convinced that you are completely nuts, a coockoo bird.
Just reread all the babble above and tell us what you were trying to say.

Joshthefirst:
You're like a fantastical child. You don't want to believe that some would choose damnation over salvation because of sins deception. Abandon your childish ideals and face reality and get saved. Than you can convince as many as possible to choose salvation over damnation.

Or I can simply dismiss your idea of reality and no one has to be damned. There is no crime in this finite time on earth that justifies eternal punishment. Unless of course the punisher is evil beyond measure. That's the single thing that ensures I can never be a member of your cult. You call it childish, I call it mercy.

plaetton:

Joshthefirst /lastmessenger,
I am convinced that you are completely nuts, a coockoo bird.
Just reread all the babble above and tell us what you were trying to say.

plaetton/ooman/evil brain.

Read it once more

Redlyn:


Or I can simply dismiss your idea of reality and no one has to be damned. There is no crime in this finite time on earth that justifies eternal punishment. Unless of course the punisher is evil beyond measure. That's the single thing that ensures I can never be a member of your cult. You call it childish, I call it mercy.

Lol. Dismissing reality doesn't change anything. Note its not my idea. Humans are more than flesh and blood. They are Spirit. Spirits are eternal.

Joshthefirst:
Lol. Dismissing reality doesn't change anything. Note its not my idea. Humans are more than flesh and blood. They are Spirit. Spirits are eternal.

That's what he Wishes. That there was no eternal punishment. But where he believes it or not...It doesn't change a thing.

Joshthefirst:
Lol. Dismissing reality doesn't change anything. Note its not my idea. Humans are more than flesh and blood. They are Spirit. Spirits are eternal.

I have my version of reality and you have yours (from the bible no doubt) so here you are giving me lectures on the unknowable. On things that cannot be known by a mortal only supposed. But that is the normal arrogance of a theist. They are always right and the only ones that are right and everyone else is wrong! Spouting like you are some oracle of knowledge on existence. The REALITY of it is both of us are clueless here but its fascinating hearing about your spirits and their eternalness