noobsaibot2:


Am not here to argue with you. Kindly consult your village elders for more knowledge.

Regards

Asking direct simple questions have now become arguing. Typical deflective reply of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

RedboneSmith:


Asking direct simple questions have now become arguing. Typical deflective reply of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Dude, I just checked your profile, from your posts it seems you are from igboid region, and you are here arguing with a core near Central Igbo man... I advised you to go and ask elders for more information.

I am of the Ngwa dialect.

Regards

noobsaibot2:


Dude, I just checked your profile, from your posts it seems you are from igboid region, and you are here arguing with a core near Central Igbo man... I advised you to go and ask elders for more information.

I am of the Ngwa dialect.

Regards

There they go again with this core Igbo nonsense. Ngwa is as peripheral, geographically, as my axis is. I'm not sure whats makes you feel so "core" or so "central".

My questions are simple, and you could have used the time you used to run a background check on me or the time you used to type this to answer them.

RedboneSmith:


There they go again with this core Igbo nonsense. Ngwa is as peripheral, geographically, as my axis is. I'm not sure whats makes you feel so "core" or so "central".

My questions are simple, and you could have used the time you used to run a background check on me or the time you used to type this to answer them.

Now, that is your problem. I believe you don't even travel to your village often and learn from your elders at home your native language. I have answered your question.

Some people can be annoyingly ignorant... We learn everyday, I would advise you to learn further and stop arguing blindly.

Thanks and have a great day ahead.

noobsaibot2:


Dude, I just checked your profile, from your posts it seems you are from igboid region, and you are here arguing with a core near Central Igbo man... I advised you to go and ask elders for more information.

I am of the Ngwa dialect.

Regards

Hi, ChinenyeN. I want to ask you this because you are also Ngwa, and are well-informed about the people. It would be most interesting if this was true - does "nze" mean "leopard" in Ngwa, as noobsaibot2 claims?

AjaanaOka:
Hi, ChinenyeN. I am want to you this because you are also Ngwa, and are well-informed about the people. It would be most interesting if this was true - does "nze" mean "leopard" in Ngwa, as noobsaibot2 claims?

“Nze” sort of rings a bell, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. As far as what I know as “common knowledge” though, the term “agu” (with an aspirated/nasalized voicing) is what is used for “leopard”.

Why do you ask? What would have made it most interesting?

Edit: We also use the term “edi”, though we more commonly see it for specific cats like “edi abali”. But “edi” and “agu” can be interchanged. Perhaps “nze” is yet another term that has likely been displaced by either “edi” or “agu” or both. But I don’t recall “nze”, though it sounds familiar.

ChinenyeN:


Why do you ask?

Oh, I ask because of a claim made here on this thread by an Ngwa poster that Nze is the Ngwa word for leopard. Struck me as odd at first.

What would have made it most interesting?

Well, my head is constantly on the look-out for possible connections, that's all.

Seems there were multiple words in YEAI and their related languages in the Benue-Congo family for leopard (or Big Cat).

Agụ (which survives in Yoruba as ẹkụ). Ekpen (in Edo) which turns up in Ibibioid, and at least in the form 'aka ekpe' in Igbo.

I've been a little puzzled at the Idoma and Igala word for leopard (eje). It seems to be an isolate (unless one makes the unsupportable supposition that it is related to ekpe).

If nze as leopard exists anywhere in this linguistic region, it would be a good candidate for a relative for eje.

AjaanaOka:

Oh, I ask because of a claim made here on this thread by an Ngwa poster that Nze is the Ngwa word for leopard. Struck me as odd at first.

Well, my head is constantly on the look-out for possible connections, that's all.

Ah, I see. Unfortunately, I can’t confirm “nze”, but I can certainly see how that would have made it interesting.

AjaanaOka:
Agụ (which survives in Yoruba as ẹkụ). Ekpen (in Edo) which turns up in Ibibioid, and at least in the form 'aka ekpe' in Igbo.

I’m curious about your statement in bold here. How did you arrive at the connection between the two?

ChinenyeN:


Ah, I see. Unfortunately, I can’t confirm “nze”, but I can certainly see how that would have made it interesting.



I’m curious about your statement in bold here. How did you arrive at the connection between the two?

Something I saw in Michael Echeruo's dictionary of the Igbo language, which made a lot of sense to me. Echeruo says the etymology for aka ekpe (left hand) is 'leopard's paw.' Now I knew from other sources that there's a folk belief that the leopard's front left paw is more powerful than its right, and that in hunting, the hunter has to be careful about approaching the animal from its left side.

See this West African "How and Why" folktale for example. :https://www.surlalunefairytales.com/books/africa/barker/whyleopard.html

The left side probably became associated with leopards from this belief/association; and the term "aka ekpe" for "left hand" could conceivably have come from this belief.

Echeruo, however, doesn't list 'ekpe' separately, as a standalone word meaning 'leopard' in his dictionary. If it ever existed in Igbo, it probably died out, only leaving a reminder in the phrase 'aka ekpe' that it once did.

PS: I once saw a comment on Facebook from a gentleman claiming to be Echie, where he was listing the names of animals in Igbo and he listed leopard as 'nwaekpe'. I just spent the last half-hour trying to find it, but couldn't....

AjaanaOka:
Something I saw in Michael Echeruo's dictionary of the Igbo language, which made a lot of sense to me. Echeruo says the etymology for aka ekpe (left hand) is 'leopard's paw.' Now I knew from other sources that there's a folk belief that the leopard's front left paw is more powerful than its right, and that in hunting, the hunter has to be careful about approaching the animal from its left side.

See this West African "How and Why" folktale for example. :https://www.surlalunefairytales.com/books/africa/barker/whyleopard.html

The left side probably became associated with leopards from this belief/association; and the term "aka ekpe" for "left hand" could conceivably have come from this belief.

Echeruo, however, doesn't list 'ekpe' separately, as a standalone word meaning 'leopard' in his dictionary. If it ever existed in Igbo, it probably died out, only leaving a reminder in the phrase 'aka ekpe' that it once did.

Hm. Interesting. I have my reservations on that, but I will have to hold from speaking them for one reason. I am uncertain of the tone structure for “aka ekpe”. I actually have to ask (because I don’t use “aka ekpe” in speech) what is the tone structure? In my mind, I’m thinking “aka” (HH) “ekpe” (Gliding High to Mid, High), from what I’ve recalled hearing from other Igbo speech communities (though it’s possible also that my recollection is completely off base).

AjaanaOka:
PS: I once saw a comment on Facebook from a gentleman claiming to be Echie, where he was listing the names of animals in Igbo and he listed leopard as 'nwaekpe'. I just spent the last half-hour trying to find it, but couldn't....

Yeah. “Nwa ekpe” or “nwa ekpekele” is what I know as another term used by Echie. This is also why I asked about tone structure. The tone structure for this is actually H HL/HLLL. For some reason, I am not getting the same sort of feeling about tone from “aka ekpe” that I get from “nwa ekpekele”.

ChinenyeN:

Hm. Interesting. I have my reservations on that, but I will have to hold from speaking them for one reason. I am uncertain of the tone structure for “aka ekpe”. I actually have to ask (because I don’t use “aka ekpe” in speech) what is the tone structure? In my mind, I’m thinking “aka” (HH) “ekpe” (Gliding High to Mid, High), from what I’ve recalled hearing from other Igbo speech communities (though it’s possible also that my recollection is completely off base).

It's áká ẹ̀kpẹ̀ [HH LL]

Out of curiosity, how do you say "left hand"?

Well, this is certainly unexpected. I say “aka ịkpa” [HH LL]. How come I don’t recall the same sense of tone structure when I think of “aka ekpe”?

All this time, I’ve been thinking that “ekpe” and “ikpa” are not cognates, only to find out today that their tone structure is supposedly the same. On top of that, “ekpe” used the “ẹ” which can often be consistently reconstructed to “ị” or “a” in other lects. Now I’m beginning to wonder if I’ve been hearing “aka ekpe” correctly all this time.

Long story short, what I thought I’ve been hearing is “aka ekpe” [HH LH], without “ẹ” and with the Igbo grammatical feature of a tone glide on the [L] tone that makes it come off as more of a [M] tone.

This is interesting, but back to the main reason why I bring it up. I don’t think I quite agree with the interpretation of it being a cognate for the term for “leopard”. In fact, if it turns out that “ekpe” and “ikpa” are indeed cognates, it adds even more reservation for me because it is unlikely that “ikpa” is a cognate for “leopard”.

By the way, the tone structure for “leopard” that I know is “ekpe” [HL]. So you can see why I had reservations thinking “ekpe” in “aka ekpe” was [LH] all this time.

By the way, AjaanaOka, thinking about your interest in “nze” for “eje”, how/where does “edi” [HH] fit in your mind?

ChinenyeN:


This is interesting, but back to the main reason why I bring it up. I don’t think I quite agree with the interpretation of it being a cognate for the term for “leopard”. In fact, if it turns out that “ekpe” and “ikpa” are indeed cognates, it adds even more reservation for me because it is unlikely that “ikpa” is a cognate for “leopard”.

By the way, the tone structure for “leopard” that I know is “ekpe” [HL]. So you can see why I had reservations thinking “ekpe” in “aka ekpe” was [LH] all this time.

Hm. I see. Fair points. However, have you considered that some of the changes that occur as languages diverge into dialects and distinct languages, tonal changes could be one of them?

ChinenyeN:
By the way, AjaanaOka, thinking about your interest in “nze” for “eje”, how/where does “edi” [HH] fit in your mind?

I never factored in 'edi' in my calculations. Reason is, 'edi' (HH), for us, in my axis, doesn't refer to the leopard (or any Big Cat, for that matter) at all.

Edi, for us, is the African civet or African civet cat, which, despite the name, isn't a true cat. Édí (same tone structure) is also the civet in Edo (I'm using Melzian's dictionary of the Bini language). Couldn't find a listing for civet in the Yoruba dictionary at my disposal, so I can't currently comment on that language.

My opinion is that, where Édí refers to the leopard, what occurred was a semantic shift where a word originally used for one animal began to mean a totally different animal which shared some attributes with the animal it was originally supposed to mean. The civet after all has a coat spotted exactly like a leopard's.

AjaanaOka:
Hm. I see. Fair points. However, have you considered that some of the changes that occur as languages diverge into dialects and distinct languages, tonal changes could be one of them?

Certainly, tonal shifts do indeed occur. We have a good example of one in present day.

ịsụ in ịsụ asụsụ. From what I have observed, for most Igbo-speaking communities, the tone structure is HL, but as the diaspora dialect developed, the tone structure has shifted to HM. So for the diaspora, the root /sụ/ has shifted from low to high.

So I can accept an LL =~ LH development for “ekpe” in some communities.

But a tonal shift “ekpe” [HL] =~ “ekpe” [LL] plus a phonetic shift “ekpe” =~ “ẹkpẹ” =~ “ịkpa”, is difficult to reconcile while the “unshifted” term is still seen and used in various contexts.

i.e. “Nwa ekpe” (Echie), “Ekpe Aru” (Ngwa), etc.

Unless if we consider that “ekpe” (leopard) entered the lexicon recently (relatively speaking), and “ekpe” (left hand) is not a cognate for “ekpe” (leopard).

I might even take it one step further and claim that tone is a more important feature than phonetics and so we (or perhaps I) will expect it to change far less frequently within a language branch than between branches. In other words, the farther back in time we go, yes, tone shifts can be expected, but for language communities that are perhaps 3,000 years old or younger (my estimate for internal Igbo-speaking glottochronology), I expect far more consistency in tone (more often than not) and greater inconsistency in phonetics or displacement of words altogether.

So this reasoning has left me doubting Echeruo’s etymology.

AjaanaOka:
I never factored in 'edi' in my calculations. Reason is, 'edi' (HH), for us, in my axis, doesn't refer to the leopard (or any Big Cat, for that matter) at all.

Edi, for us, is the African civet or African civet cat, which, despite the name, isn't a true cat. Édí (same tone structure) is also the civet in Edo (I'm using Melzian's dictionary of the Bini language). Couldn't find a listing for civet in the Yoruba dictionary at my disposal, so I can't currently comment on that language.

My opinion is that, where Édí refers to the leopard, what occurred was a semantic shift where a word originally used for one animal began to mean a totally different animal which shared some attributes with the animal it was originally supposed to mean. The civet after all has a coat spotted exactly like a leopard's.

Hm. Considering we are all part of the YEAI family, a semantic shift would make sense, if it turns out that the “edi” for leopard is only seen in a subset of communities while for the greater YEAI family, it refers to something else.

So perhaps in our axis, we went from calling the civet as “edi” to “edi abali” as “edi” started to become a synonym for “agu”. Hmmm.

ChinenyeN:

“Nze” sort of rings a bell, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. As far as what I know as “common knowledge” though, the term “agu” (with an aspirated/nasalized voicing) is what is used for “leopard”.

Why do you ask? What would have made it most interesting?

Edit: We also use the term “edi”, though we more commonly see it for specific cats like “edi abali”. But “edi” and “agu” can be interchanged. Perhaps “nze” is yet another term that has likely been displaced by either “edi” or “agu” or both. But I don’t recall “nze”, though it sounds familiar.

Odum = Lion
Agu = Tiger
Nze = Leopard
Ozor = Gorrila
Edi Abali = African Civet


To name a few. I would ask you to go and meet elders from your village to know more.

Noobsaobot2, allow me to ask, which part of Ngwa are you from? It will help me in cataloging terms and communities that use said term. You don’t need to share the exact village. Just the obodo will be fine. For example, is it Ibeme or Akuma Imo or Nsulu or Ndiakata, etc.

noobsaibot2:


Odum = Lion
Agu = Tiger
Nze = Leopard
Ozor = Gorrila
Edi Abali = African Civet


To name a few. I would ask you to go and meet elders from your village to know more.

There is no word for Tiger in ancient Igbo language. Tigers are not even found in Africa to start with.

Agu is Leopard or any of the big cats with markings.

Ekealterego:

There is no word for Tiger in ancient Igbo language. Tigers are not even found in Africa to start with.

Agu is Leopard or any of the big cats with markings.

So what is Nze?

I don't blame you, I blame the Nigerian government that removed history from our curriculum...

My dear, do more research with reference and get back to me.

Side note: maybe in your own area there may be no tigers, but where I come from, we had jungles close to us with ferocious animals... Eaten during the war times due to hunger... Some I saw, others folk tales and stories passed down to us from elders.

Warmest Regards

ChinenyeN:
Noobsaobot2, allow me to ask, which part of Ngwa are you from? It will help me in cataloging terms and communities that use said term. You don’t need to share the exact village. Just the obodo will be fine. For example, is it Ibeme or Akuma Imo or Nsulu or Ndiakata, etc.

Nvosi

noobsaibot2:
Nvosi

Mmamma. Ogwe ke m nhie Akuma Imo. I will like to document your use of “nze”. Can you tell me the tone pattern?

ChinenyeN:


Mmamma. Ogwe ke m nhie Akuma Imo. I will like to document your use of “nze”. Can you tell me the tone pattern?

Nzè

anselm791:
1) Goat = Ewu (Male = Mkpi, Female = Nne Ewu)

2) Fowl = Okuko (Male = Oke Okpa, Female = Nnekwu)

3) Guinea Fowl = Ogazi

4) Chicken = Nwa Okuko

5) Turkey = Tolotolo/Torotoro

6) Duck = Obogwuma/Obogwu

7) Pigeon = Nduru/Nduli

8.) Ostrich = Enyi Nnunu

9) Antelope = Mgbada

10) Deer = Ene

11) Cow = Efi

12) Horse = Inyinya

13) Rat = Oke

14) Guinea Pig = Oke Bekee

15) Squirrel = Osa

16) Dog = Nkita

17) Hyena = Nkita Ofia

18) Cat = Nwonogbo/Buusu/Nwamba

19) Sheep = Atulu

20) Ram = Ebune/Ebule

21) Pig = Ezi

22) Lion = Odum

23) Leopard = Agu/Awolo

24) Elephant = Enyi

25) Monkey = Enwe

26) Chimpanzee = Adaka

27) Gorilla = Ozodimgba (Ozo, the king of wrestling)

28) Snail = Eju/Ejune/Ejula

29) Snake = Agwo

30) Python = Eke

31) Lizard = Ngwele/Ngwere

32) Wall Gecko = Agu uno

33) Crocodile = Aguiyi

34) Toad = Awo

35) Frog = Mbala/Mbara/Nte/Akiri

36) Tortoise = Mbe/Nabe

37) Vulture = Udene/Udele

38) Eagle = Ugo

39) White Ant = Aruru

40) Black Ant = Agbisi

41) Mosquito = Añu Nta

42) Grasshopper = Ukpana

43) Kite = Nkwo

44) Spider = Ududo

45) Praying Mantis = Okongono

46) Earth Worm = Idide

47) Worm = Okpo

48) Scorpion = Akpi

49) Butterfly = Ilokolo Ibuba

50) Cockroach = Uchicha

51) House Fly = Ijiji

52) Cricket = Mbuzu/Mgbaja

53) Bed Bug = Chinchi/Ogii

54) Bee = Añu

55) Crab = Nchiko/Nshiko

56) Bat = Usu

57) Millipede = Esu

58) Centipede = Ogbakuluu

59) Rabbit = Ewii

60) Grasscutter = Nchi

61) Owl = Ikwikwi/Iyi Ochi

62) Wood Pecker = Otu Kpokpo

63) Chameleon = Ugwumagana

64) Fox = Nyanwuruede

65) Fish = Azu

66) African civet = Edi Ura (a nocturnal animal known to sleep all day during the day. Used to refer to anyone who sleeps a lot)

67) Wasp = Ebu (Isi kote ebu, O gbakasia nya aru )

68) Taylor Ant = Akpolide (Usually found on mango trees)

69) Porcupine = Ebi Ogwu

70) Shrew = Nkakwu/Nkapi (Mole-like rat that is known for its pungent smell.)

71) Eneke Nti Oba = Swallow (A type of bird that hardly perches on trees when in season to avoid being gunned down by human hunters)

72) Hawk = Egbe

73) Beetle = Mbuzu/Ebe

74) Periwinkle = Isam

75) Bush Fowl/Goose = Okwa

76) Stork = Okpoko

77) Boa Constrictor = Eke Ogba

78) Camel = Inyinya Ibu

79) Hippopotamus = Utobo/Akum

80) Iguana = Ngwele aghu

81) Tilapia = Azu asa

82) Eel = Ebi Iyi

83) Crayfish = Isha

84) Turtle = Mbe mmili

85) Egret = Chekeleke

86) Donkey = Jaki

87) Dragon Fly = Tatambeneke

88) Maggot = Ikpuru

89) Buffalo = Atu

90) Wolf = Agu Owulu

91) Sparrow = Nza

92) Parrot = Icheoku

93) Viper = Ajuani/Ajuala

94) Locusts = Igwulube

95) Galago/Bush baby = Ikili/Ikiri

96) Hog = Ezi Ofia

97) Bird = Nnunu (Generic name)

98) Gaboon Viper = Echi Eteka

99) Weaver bird = Egule

100) Cod fish = Okpoloko

101) Dove = ńdò


Edited by: bigfrancis21
Last Edit: 10pm, March 8, 2015

What is Agu?

I think Odum is Tiger

Agu is Lion

clericuzzio:


I think Odum is Tiger

Can you help me with the Igbo names for panda bear and reindeer?

clericuzzio:



What is Agu?

I think Odum is Tiger

Agu is Lion

Remember Aka Nchawa’s song from the early 2000s or if you’re familiar with the Igbo Bible, ‘Anyi nwere Odum Ebo Judea’ ie ‘We have the lion of the tribe of Judea’. I remember reading my grandmother’s Igbo Bible many years ago, the Igbo translation for the Lion of the tribe of Judea was and has always been, ‘Odum Ebo Judea’.

This is an argument that has been made on this forum years ago. You might want to look for that thread for more information.

RedboneSmith:


Can you help me with the Igbo names for panda bear and reindeer?

I’m not sure if Igbo names for those animals exist. Ancient Igbos gave names to those things which they encountered/interacted with. Pandas are from Asia I think and did not exist in ancient Igboland. The closest to panda would be chimpanzee which Igbos call Ozodimgba, partly in reference to their tendency to fight/wrestle. Maybe a modification of Ozodimgba could give rise to a name for Panda. For eg Ozodiocha.

bigfrancis21:


I’m not sure if Igbo names for those animals exist. Ancient Igbos gave names to those things which they encountered/interacted with. Pandas are from Asia I think and did not exist in ancient Igboland. The closest to panda would be chimpanzee which Igbos call Ozodimgba, partly in reference to their tendency to fight/wrestle. Maybe a modification of Ozodimgba could give rise to a name for Panda. For eg Ozodiocha.

You don't understand why I asked him that question.

bigfrancis21:


Remember Aka Nchawa’s song from the early 2000s or if you’re familiar with the Igbo Bible, ‘Anyi nwere Odum Ebo Judea’ ie ‘We have the lion of the tribe of Judea’. I remember reading my grandmother’s Igbo Bible many years ago, the Igbo translation for the Lion of the tribe of Judea was and has always been, ‘Odum Ebo Judea’.

This is an argument that has been made on this forum years ago. You might want to look for that thread for more information.

What of this song

Agu Na'eche Mba

Lion is Agu

Leopard is Odum. not the other way round

No sir! I disagree with you. You got it wrong. The poster is actually correct. Leopard is Agu, while Lion is Odum. Pls take note