EVarn my brother in the Lord, Oyind17 one who understand the pains of discipline and all who have been destinied to die for Christ in the coming days. I will advice you to check this link out which I found today.It is extremely useful in regard to your faith and the discipline you have to go through to be a partaker of the sufferings of Christ.

To be one of the two witnesses of Christ destined to die but not die should be your heart as a true disciples of Christ. But then there are things you need to have perfect control over like your emotions,appetite,thoughts and most of all your tongue.

God can choose you for this tribulation witnessing. You don't have to worry as one of the two witnesses nothing shall happen to you or your love ones during the last 3½ years of the tribulation.

Here is the link http://www.tribulationinstitute.com/tribulationsaints_ch10_twowitnesses.htm

Highcuerayte:
EVarn my brother in the Lord, Oyind17 one who understand the pains of discipline and all who have been destinied to die for Christ in the coming days. I will advice you to check this link out which I found today.It is extremely useful in regard to your faith and the discipline you have to go through to be a partaker of the sufferings of Christ.
To be one of the two witnesses of Christ destined to die but not die should be your heart as a true disciples of Christ. But then there are things you need to have perfect control over like your emotions,appetite,thoughts and most of all your tongue.
God can choose you for this tribulation witnessing. You don't have to worry as one of the two witnesses nothing shall happen to you or your love ones during the last 3½ years of the tribulation.
Here is the link http://www.tribulationinstitute.com/tribulationsaints_ch10_twowitnesses.htm

My friend,the truth about the two witnesses differs from what was enacted in sleepy hollow.

I will be back in a few hours to comprehesively discuss this topic.

EVarn:
My friend,the truth about the two witnesses differs from what was enacted in sleepy hollow.

That my friend is the simple Truth.

Highcuerayte:

In the end of days(70th week of daniel),4 witnesses will rise up; 2 of them will be witnesses for satan,i'm referring to both the Anti-christ and False prophet,while the other 2 will be the two witnesses of God: with the spirit and power of Elijah and Enoch to prophesy for 1260 days.Some enthusiasts argue that Moses will be one of the witnesses of the end time,citing Revelation 11:6 where it is written that the witnesses will have power to cause draught,turn water to blood and cause all manner of plague; these are deeds that were performed by Moses.However,there are only two prophets who didnt witness death; Elijah and Enoch.God caught them up to heaven,Rev 11:4 says that the witnesses are the "two olive trees" and "two candlesticks" that are [s]"standing before the God of the earth"[/s]: this means that the two witnesses are currently standing in the presence of God until the are sent to the earth to prophesy,die and rapture into heaven.

EVarn:
In the end of days(70th week of daniel),4 witnesses will rise up; 2 of them will be witnesses for satan,i'm referring to both the Anti-christ and False prophet,while the other 2 will be the two witnesses of God: with the spirit and power of Elijah and Enoch to prophesy for 1260 days.Some enthusiasts argue that Moses will be one of the witnesses of the end time,citing Revelation 11:6 where it is written that the witnesses will have power to cause draught,turn water to blood and cause all manner of plague; these are deeds that were performed by Moses.However,there are only two prophets who didnt witness death; Elijah and Enoch.God caught them up to heaven,Rev 11:4 says that the witnesses are the "two olive trees" and "two candlesticks" that are [s]"standing before the God of the earth"[/s]: this means that the two witnesses are currently standing in the presence of God until the are sent to the earth to prophesy,die and rapture into heaven.

Take time to read the article. The two witnesses represents thousands of matured Saints in Christ and not just two people.

As per candlestick Christ says Candlestick are churches. And there are two churches which takes no part in work of darkness whose Christ admonition to them was "Hold firm what you had"

Highcuerayte:
That my friend is the simple Truth.

There is another angle to the matter of the two witnesses of the end of days.
In Romans 11:24-25,apostle paul refers to israel as the tame olive tree and the gentiles as wild olive tree,correspondingly,Revelation 11:4 says that the witnesses are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Recall that Revelations 1:12 and Revelation 1:20 referred to the seven churches in Asia as "seven golden candlesticks".
Therefore it can be argued that the two witnesses are not human prophets,but actually: the jewish church(Israel: judaism) and the gentile church(Christian church of all nations).

Highcuerayte:
Take time to read the article. The two witnesses represents thousands of matured Saints in Christ and not just two people.

As per candlestick Christ says Candlestick are churches. And there are two churches which takes no part in work of darkness whose Christ admonition to them was "Hold firm what you had"

I read the article,and it presented only one view of the "two witnesses".
I have addressed that view in my second post to you above.

EVarn:
There is another angle to the matter of the two witnesses of the end of days.
In Romans 11:24-25,apostle paul refers to israel as the tame [s]olive tree[/] and the gentiles as wild olive tree,correspondingly,Revelation 11:4 says that the witnesses are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Recall that Revelations 1:12 and Revelation 1:20 referred to the seven churches in Asia as "seven golden candlesticks".
Therefore it can be argued that the two witnesses are not human prophets,but actually: the jewish church(Israel: judaism) and the gentile church(Christian church of all nations).

Possible...but here the two witnesses are Two churches and their rise brought about Satan being casted out of the second heaven. In other words they are the man-child caught up to God and they are to rule with Christ with a rod of iron. I think that remove the option of Jewish Church.Or what do you think?

Have in heart the two witnesses are not two people but two groups of people.

EVarn:
I read the article,and it presented only one view of the "two witnesses".
I have addressed that view in my second post to you above.

Have analysed your view....it seems plausible with few objections have made up

Highcuerayte:
Possible...but here the two witnesses are Two churches and their rise brought about Satan being casted out of the second heaven. In other words they are the man-child caught up to God and they are to rule with Christ with a rod of iron. I think that remove the option of Jewish Church.Or what do you think?
Have in heart the two witnesses are not two people but two groups of people.

On the surface,it may seem plausible that the jewish church is not an option due to its negligent believe in the divinity of Christ.However,recall that Revelation 7:3 spoke about 144000 of all the 12 tribes of Israel sealed in their foreheads with the mark of God: this is a testament of the redemption of the jewish church,it is a bold suggestion that the jewish church will be judged by law on the judgement day(like those who existed before the time of christ or the gospel of his works),while the christian church will be judged by faith(believe in Christ).
So,the theory holds.

EVarn:
On the surface,it may seem plausible that the jewish church is not an option due to its negligent believe in the divinity of Christ.However,recall that Revelation 7:3 spoke about 144000 of all the 12 tribes of Israel sealed in their foreheads with the mark of God: this is a testament of the redemption of the jewish church,it is a bold suggestion that the jewish church will be judged by law on the judgement day(like those who existed before the time of christ or the gospel of his works),while the christian church will be judged by faith(believe in Christ).
So,the theory holds.

No my brother. It is by Faith all will stand to be judged. Truth is there won't be any Jewish church. Remember Apostle Paul said when all the gentiles destinied for eternal life are saved then all Isreal will be saved meaning they will believe the Gospel of Christ and that may be during the last 3½ years of tribulation under the ministries of the two witnesses.

Highcuerayte:
No my brother. It is by Faith all will stand to be judged. Truth is there won't be any Jewish church. Remember Apostle Paul said when all the gentiles destinied for eternal life are saved then all Isreal will be saved meaning they will believe the Gospel of Christ and that may be during the last 3½ years of tribulation under the ministries of the two witnesses.

If all men shall be judged by faith,then how will those who had died before the time of christ and those who were unable to recieve the gospel of his works due to geographical displacement be judged on the day of judgement?,will they go to hell simply because they were indisposed during the time of christ?,wouldnt they instead be judged by the works their hands and by the law?.
Will david,joshua,moses,joseph and co go to hell?.
The jewish congregation will be a witness of God in the end of days,it will preach the gospel of law,while the christian church will prophesy the gospel of faith.

EVarn:
If all men shall be judged by faith,then how will those who had died before the time of christ and those who were unable to recieve the gospel of his works due to geographical displacement be judged on the day of judgement?,will they go to hell simply because they were indisposed during the time of christ?,wouldnt they instead be judged by the works their hands and by the law?.
Will david,joshua,moses,joseph and co go to hell?.
The jewish congregation will be a witness of God in the end of days,it will preach the gospel of law,while the christian church will prophesy the gospel of faith.

ever read the Scripture, "He also went to preach to the spirits"

Highcuerayte:
ever read the Scripture, "He also went to preach to the spirits"

Surely you know that after death,judgement follows.Therefore,all those who are dead are asleep until the day of ressurection and judgement.How then will christ preach to the spirits?,isnt that a direct contradiction of John 3:16 which states that christ was sent to the world of men to deliver salvation to humanity,not spirits?

EVarn:
Surely you know that after death,judgement follows.Therefore,all those who are dead are asleep until the day of ressurection and judgement.How then will christ preach to the spirits?,isnt that a direct contradiction of John 3:16 which states that christ was sent to the world of men to deliver salvation to humanity,not spirits?

And humanity my brother contains both dead and living same way resurrection contains both dead and living

Highcuerayte:
And humanity my brother contains both dead and living same way resurrection contains both dead and living

The dead cannot receive the gospel because their spirit is asleep and not yet resurrected.
Only the living can receive the gospel.

EVarn:
The dead cannot receive the gospel because their spirit is asleep and not yet resurrected.
Only the living can receive the gospel.

Wrong brother.

Highcuerayte:
Wrong brother.

Then I suppose we are at an impasse.

EVarn:
Then I suppose we are at an impasse.

Not if you read the Scripture rather than what has been indoctrinated into you!!

Hmm... Sorry, mistakenly walked into the thread (niddle).
Jump out through the window joo.

Highcuerayte:
Not if you read the Scripture rather than what has been indoctrinated into you!!

lol,my brother,you remind me of a pharisee who is so assured of his doctrines that he sees alien knowledge as blasphemous to his beliefs,he becomes disgruntled about the fact that his counter-part does not seem to grasp the message behind his spiritual principles; without acknowledging that perhaps both their views are different,yet synonymous to each other in theological interpretation.
I have come to uphold these doctrines,not erase then.
My brother,I wasnt indoctrinated in any way,what I believe is through microscopic research of the scriptures and other ancient texts.

EVarn:
lol,my brother,you remind me of a pharisee who is so assured of his doctrines that he sees alien knowledge as blasphemous to his beliefs,he becomes disgruntled about the fact that his counter-part does not seem to grasp the message behind his spiritual principles; without acknowledging that perhaps both their views are different,yet synonymous to each other in theological interpretation.
I have come to uphold these doctrines,not erase then.
My brother,I wasnt indoctrinated in any way,what I believe is through microscopic research of the scriptures and other ancient texts.

I spoke of a mark right.. you need to get rid of it.

" For for this cause was the gospel preached
also to them that are dead, that they
might be judged according to men in the
flesh, but live according to God in the
spirit."

Highcuerayte:
I spoke of a mark right.. you need to get rid of it.
" For for this cause was the gospel preached
also to them that are dead, that they
might be judged according to men in the
flesh, but live according to God in the
spirit."

I sensed that you would quote 1 Peter 4:6 to support your view.
However,was it written that the gospel which was preached to the dead was the gospel of faith?.The gospel came to the men of old through the means of prophets and oracles,in form of the law!.
Romans 8:10 says that if christ be in you,the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is life because of righteousness; what this means is that when you are in christ,then you are dead to sin.
Some believe that when christ died,he descended into hades to preach the gospel to the dead for 3 days.However,consider that there are people who died after the ascension of christ and before the spread of christianity,without receiving the gospel of faith,will they go to hell?

EVarn:
I sensed that you would quote 1 Peter 4:6 to support your view.
However,was it written that the gospel which was preached to the dead was the gospel of faith?.The gospel came to the men of old through the means of prophets and oracles,in form of the law!.
Romans 8:10 says that if christ be in you,the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is life because of righteousness; what this means is that when you are in christ,then you are dead to sin.
Some believe that when christ died,he descended into hades to preach the gospel to the dead for 3 days.However,consider that there are people who died after the ascension of christ and before the spread of christianity,without receiving the gospel of faith,will they go to hell?

Have you ever read that those who are without the law wi be judged without the law and those under will be judged by it? If yes then do you not understand that before Christ those that died will be judged by the work of their hands which will fail them . But those who died after Christ begin preaching of the Gospel will be judged by only Faith alone.

For this Christ went to preach to the spirit of the dead that they may all have the grace to believe.

Highcuerayte:
Have you ever read that those who are without the law wi be judged without the law and those under will be judged by it? If yes then do you not understand that before Christ those that died will be judged by the work of their hands which will fail them . But those who died after Christ begin preaching of the Gospel will be judged by only Faith alone.
For this Christ went to preach to the spirit of the dead that they may all have the grace to believe.

Where were the spirit of the dead when christ went to preach to them?,Didnt the scriptures say that their is only one judgement after death,and that judgement will take place after the end of days?,Are you saying that the spirit of the dead were already judged before the coming of christ? or do you mean that the dead were in some sort of purgatory or hell?.
Now,what about those that died after christ ascended to heaven?,who will preach the gospel of faith to them,is it fellow spirits?

EVarn:
Where were the spirit of the dead when christ went to preach to them?,Didnt the scriptures say that their is only one judgement after death,and that judgement will take place after the end of days?,Are you saying that the spirit of the dead were already judged before the coming of christ? or do you mean that the dead were in some sort of purgatory or hell?.
Now,what about those that died after christ ascended to heaven?,who will preach the gospel of faith to them,is it fellow spirits?

Those who died after Christ ascend already have the Gospel preached to them. No continent will say he has never heard about Christ.

Highcuerayte

The two witnesses are two men.
A basic and sensible approach to Revelation is to take everything literally unless there are sufficient reasons not to. The biggest mistake one can make in Revelation is interpreting a literal event or person or entity as symbolic and then interpreting this 'symbol'. The result is epic confusion. Equally erroneous is interpreting a symbol as literal.

Why are they men?
1. They are called thus
2. They preach the gospel
3. Their description is amidst other men
4. They are killed
5. They are resurrected
6. There is NOTHING suggesting they are not.

Please observe they are killed by the Beast yet the Beast only shows up in chapter 13.

Please summarize why you think the two witnesses are two groups of individuals and not two men

Highcuerayte:
Those who died after Christ ascend already have the Gospel preached to them. No continent will say he has never heard about Christ.

Wrong my brother.
There were people who died the day after christ ascended into heaven,there were people that werent in the palestinian region who died before the gospel could reach them,will they go to hell?
Surely you know that it took decades or even centuries for the gospel to spread through Asia to Europe to America and then to Africa,many people in other continents would have died before the gospel reached their geographical location.

Highcuerayte:
EVarn my brother in the Lord, Oyind17 one who understand the pains of discipline and all who have been destinied to die for Christ in the coming days. I will advice you to check this link out which I found today.It is extremely useful in regard to your faith and the discipline you have to go through to be a partaker of the sufferings of Christ.

To be one of the two witnesses of Christ destined to die but not die should be your heart as a true disciples of Christ. But then there are things you need to have perfect control over like your emotions,appetite,thoughts and most of all your tongue.

God can choose you for this tribulation witnessing. You don't have to worry as one of the two witnesses nothing shall happen to you or your love ones during the last 3½ years of the tribulation.

Here is the link http://www.tribulationinstitute.com/tribulationsaints_ch10_twowitnesses.htm

I don't want to suffer for any human being. God has given me life, that's all am interested in.

chuna1985:








I don't want to suffer for any human being. God has given me life, that's all am interested in.

If Christ didn't suffer for you will you be saved? Think my brother

Highcuerayte:
If Christ didn't suffer for you will you be saved? Think my brother

I do not need to be saved.