I want to knw if he's created or if he has no beginning like God The Father....... And what does d bible mean by "Begotten of the Father"?.

Please note, JESUS CHRIST was never created.

Sister this is not a confusing MATTER NA.... study your bible and stop asking PLAIN questions that even a Junior WAEC student can answer just by reading. BEGOTTEN is a strong word... to show he was not of an EARTHLY origin... OF HIS BIRTH JOSEPH'S SPERM WAS NOT INVOLVED... He came solely from God but was carried into this world in the WOMB of a woman MARy.

If you do not understand that then you simply are looking for argument.

ojobolinda:
I want to knw if he's created or if he has no beginning like God The Father....... And what does d bible mean by "Begotten of the Father"?.

greatnaija01:
Sister this is not a confusing MATTER NA.... study your bible and stop asking PLAIN questions that even a Junior WAEC student can answer just by reading. BEGOTTEN is a strong word... to show he was not of an EARTHLY origin... OF HIS BIRTH JOSEPH'S SPERM WAS NOT INVOLVED... He came solely from God but was carried into this world in the WOMB of a woman MARy.

If you do not understand that then you simply are looking for argument.

Am nt talking abt wen he came to earth. U knw he was existing b4 he came to dis earth(born of d virgin mary). Jesus Christ was existing with d Father B4 he was made flesh and dwelt amongst us. My confusion is whether he has been existing infinite jst lik d Father or nt........ Do u understand me nw??.......... What makes you think am here to argue, pls i don't have dat luxury of time, beside i don't argue bible wit pple cos it always end bad.

MistadeRegal:
Please note, JESUS CHRIST was never created.

ok..... D second question is what does d bible mean by Begotten of the Father?

MistadeRegal:
Please note, JESUS CHRIST was never created.

The bible recorded that Jesus is the first fruit of every creation. He is the first entity to be created before the angels.

ojobolinda:
I want to knw if he's created or if he has no beginning like God The Father....... And what does d bible mean by "Begotten of the Father"?.

He was created by God from the biginning.

Colossians 1:14-20 KJV
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

John 1:1-3New International Version (NIV)



1 In the beginning was the Word, [/b]and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [b]He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made


The word of God Jesus had existed right from the very beginning.He was not created

I have read so much about this topic and I think most folks miss it by trying to interpreted the Bible without considering the main theme: Salvation. When we talk about salvation, we talk about divine help. When we talk about divine help we talk about covenant. When talk about covenant we talk about divine exchange. When we talk about divine exchange, we must talk about mystery of Jesus. When we talk about mystery, only heaven has the real meaning and absolute knowledge of the personality of Jesus.

However, in John 1:1 it is said God and word co - existed. Elsewhere, God said I am the only God and I do not recognise another. Yet the Word is God.
(Jehovah witnesses would wish this statement removed but cannot remove it, except to say that John made a mistake.) Their Bible renders the second God a 'god' Why would God recognize this 'a god'

All scriptures that talk about Jesus did not talk about his creation except inferred. e.g. Rev.3:14. Col. 1:15 which are not consistent with Is a. 9:6, 7; Micah 5:2; John1:1, 2; Heb. 1:8:Rev1:8.

The Mystery
The way I understand Christ. He was in God as The Word. He became incarnated for the purpose of redemption without which there should never be a reason for incarnation.
He made His disciples confessed that He actually 'came out of God' before He went to the cross.

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I [/b]came out from God[b]. 28 [/b]I came forth from the Father, [/b]and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? John 17 : 27 - 31.Salvation is a rebirth, a new order in a past, yet existing world. He is the only begotten because He came out of God..

He became the first born (begotten) of all creation when He arose from the dead. a believer who is baptized is showing this Gal. 2:20.

A status He attained only after the resurrection.

30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13: 30 - 33.

Jesus is a mystery should be seen as such.


4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Col.3:4

This is my humble contribution.

enilove:


He was created by God from the biginning.

Colossians 1:14-20 KJV
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

did you bother to read what you quoted?

HOPE you know that HE IS THE WORD OF GOD. mean WHEN GOD SPEAKS that is actually JESUS! so he and GOD have the same existentiality

ojobolinda:
Am nt talking abt wen he came to earth. U knw he was existing b4 he came to dis earth(born of d virgin mary). Jesus Christ was existing with d Father B4 he was made flesh and dwelt amongst us. My confusion is whether he has been existing infinite jst lik d Father or nt........ Do u understand me nw??.......... What makes you think am here to argue, pls i don't have dat luxury of time, beside i don't argue bible wit pple cos it always end bad.

PaChukwudi44:


did you bother to read what you quoted?

Can you quote or write without reading what you are writing?

I quoted the Bible , I did not write it.

What you should have quoted is the verses saying categorically that Jesus was not created by God.

There plenty of other Bible references telling us that Jesus was created by God.
I may be wrong , but I need proof from the Bible.

MightySparrow:
I have read so much about this topic and I think most folks miss it by trying to interpreted the Bible without considering the main theme: Salvation. When we talk about salvation, we talk about divine help. When we talk about divine help we talk about covenant. When talk about covenant we talk about divine exchange. When we talk about divine exchange, we must talk about mystery of Jesus. When we talk about mystery, only heaven has the real meaning and absolute knowledge of the personality of Jesus.

However, in John 1:1 it is said God and word co - existed. Elsewhere, God said I am the only God and I do not recognise another. Yet the world is God.
(Jehovah witnesses would wish this statement removed but cannot remove it, except to say this John made a mistake.) Their Bible renders the second God a 'god' Why would God recognize this 'god'

All scriptures that talk about Jesus did not talk about his creation except inferred. e.g. Rev.3:14. Col. 1:15 which are not consistent with Is a. 9:6, 7; Micah 5:2; John1:1, 2; Heb. 1:8:Rev1:8.

The Mystery
The way I understand Christ. He was in God as The Word. He became incarnated for the purpose of redemption without which there should never be a reason for incarnation.
He made His disciples confessed that He actually 'came out of God' before He went to the cross.

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I [b]came out from God[b]. 28 [b]I came forth from the Father, [/b]and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? John 17 : 27 - 31.Salvation is a rebirth, a new order in a past, yet existing world. He is the only begotten because He came out of God.

He became the first born (begotten) of all creation when He arose from the dead. a believer who is baptized is showing this Gal. 2:20.

A status He attained only after the resurrection.

30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13: 30 - 33.

Jesus is a mystery should be seen as such.


4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph.3:4

This is my humble contribution.

Lolzzz, Kindly explain Revelation 3 vs 14 for me ?

am waiting

ojobolinda:
I want to knw if he's created or if he has no beginning like God The Father....... And what does d bible mean by "Begotten of the Father"?.

Ojobolinda , Good question .

I will answer you in two ways ,

- 1. Read Revelation 3 vs 14, there Jesus specifically said it that he was the beginning of the Creation of God . very clear and direct. , he was created

2. - Only created beings are termed " Son of God " designating that they all come from a source " God" and Jesus is not excluded from the title because he was created too , ask your pastor , why that title is never applied to Yahweh, the Father of Jesus ?

ojobolinda:
ok..... D second question is what does d bible mean by Begotten of the Father?

Good question!!! Watch as they play around it.

" Begotten " is a keyword showing he was created too.

Peacefullove:


Lolzzz, Kindly explain Revelation 3 vs 14 for me ?

am waiting

Kindly read the other verses mentioned. I am waiting.

MightySparrow:


Kindly read the other verses mentioned. I am waiting.

You statement was all those verses mentioned " Infer " not teach .


to validate your assertion, I choose one out of them . Solve that first and let's prove if it just infer truly LIKE YOU CLAIMED .

KJV "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
Daniel:3:25 hopes this answers your question he existed in the old testament

danvon:
KJV "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the[b]Son[/b] of[/b]God.[b]"
Daniel:3:25

Why is the Angel called " Son of God " ? a title never applied to Yahweh, the Father

Peacefullove:


You statement was all those verses mentioned " Infer " not teach .


to validate your assertion, I choose one out of them . Solve that first and let's prove if it just infer truly LIKE YOU CLAIMED .

You you didn't read the passages quoted?

MightySparrow:

You you didn't read the passages quoted?

I do, including that Revelation 3 vs 14 . am interested in your explaining it Bro

Peacefullove:


Why is the Angel called " Son of God " ? a title never applied to Yahweh, the Father

What are you talking about that's the old testament Jesus saved Meshach Shedrach and Abednego so he has existed a long time Ago

"And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis:1:26, Who are the 'Us'?

danvon:
What are you talking about that's the old testament Jesus saved Meshach Shedrach and Abednego so he has existed a long time Ago

I didn't ask for details of story . My focus was on a phrase that appeared in the verse you quoted " Son of God " .

who are those termed " Son of God " ?

and why is that title never applied to " Yahweh , The Father of all " ?

danvon:
"And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis:1:26, Who are the 'Us'?

Nobody asked how man was created or how it was done

Genesis 1:26 is not the start of existence of heavenly beings .


How did Jesus ( one of the heavenly beings ) came to be ? that was the OP question .

And we find him saying he was the beginning of Creation at Revelation 3 vs 14 .. Do u agree with him ? what does that mean ?

Peacefullove:


I didn't ask for details of story . My focus was on a phrase that appeared in the verse you quoted " Son of God " .

who are those termed " Son of God " ?

and why is that title never applied to " Yahweh , The Father of all " ?

well it's only God the Son we can see, Jesus said after him will come the Holy Spirit so they are separate but still the same God

danvon:
well it's only God the Son we can see, Jesus said after him will come the Holy Spirit so they are separate but still the same God

Before I proceed , let me drop an advice sir .

Whenever you want to comment on a thread make sure u understand the OP very well, to avoid posting OFF topic like you are doing , even breaking Nairaland rules .

This is not a trinity thread, so the " Same God " phrase is highly nonsensical .

I was asking this:

why is Jesus , Angels , Man all called " Son of God " ?

why is Yahweh, the Father of all... never addressed with such title ?

Peacefullove:


Before I proceed , let me drop an advice sir .

Whenever you want to comment on a thread make sure u understand the OP very well, to avoid posting OFF topic like you are doing , even breaking Nairaland rules .

This is not a trinity thread, so the " Same God " phrase is highly nonsensical .

I was asking this:

why is Jesus , Angels , Man all called " Son of God " ?

why is Yahweh, the Father of all... never addressed with such title ?

where were Angels called begotten Son of God?, Yahweh is referred to as the Godhead in the Bible

danvon:
What are you talking about that's the old testament Jesus saved Meshach Shedrach and Abednego so he has existed a long time Ago

The question is nt whether he existed in d old tastament or long ago. The issue is does he have a beginning (created) or nt.

danvon:
where were Angels called begotten Son of God

They Bolded Is what am asking, Angels are called " Sons of God " , same way Jesus was called " Son of God " .

What cause that ?

Why wasn't his Father addressed as such ?

Does it not mean every living thing that are made by God ( Yahweh ) are his sons ?

danvon:
"And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis:1:26, Who are the 'Us'?

Yea, i knw he existed bfore Genesis 1 jst lik d Father, bt does he have no beginning jst lik d Father or was he created along wit d Angels. Dat's d question Sir

Peacefullove:


Ojobolinda , Good question .

I will answer you in two ways ,

- 1. Read Revelation 3 vs 14, there Jesus specifically said it that he was the beginning of the Creation of God . very clear and direct. , he was created

2. - Only created beings are termed " Son of God " designating that they all come from a source " God" and Jesus is not excluded from the title because he was created too , ask your pastor , why that title is never applied to Yahweh, the Father of Jesus ?

Jesus was not created.He is of the same substance as the father."through him l things were created.Not one thing was created without him"