ojobolinda:
Yea, i knw he existed bfore Genesis 1 jst lik d Father, bt does he have no beginning jst lik d Father or was he created along wit d Angels. Dat's d question Sir

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13 no he didn't

ojobolinda:
I want to knw if he's created or if he has no beginning like God The Father....... And what does d bible mean by "Begotten of the Father"?.

Begotten means to come out from

Jesus is the begotten of the Father means Jesus came out of the father.

How?

Jesus is the word of God (John 1:1). This means Jesus is the very word of God.

Men can record their voice on a voice recorder. Can God record his voice? God's technology is higher than that of man in an unimaginable way.

If men can produce a recorder to record their voice, then God can do more than a recorder.

God's very voice (his word) became flesh and that's who we know as Jesus. Your throne, O God, endureth forever

Peacefullove:


I do, including that Revelation 3 vs 14 . am interested in your explaining it Bro

Christ existed with God the Father in the beginning. John 1:1. How and when this beginning was, not known. He was with God and also was God. How not known or mentioned in the scriptures. However, Issish 43: 10 says,

'Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.'

What constitues the formation we don't know.
Yet John 1:1 says The Word and God are one.
The first creation by the actions of Adam and Eve were condemned. Death came. All came to die with Adam.

The word (the raw material for creation) now came into a living dust unlike a statue in Genesis. John 1: 14. Claims the word became incarnated in a Virgin.
Now as the last Adam, became the beginning of a new order of creation of God. Hence the doctrine of regeneration not mentioned in O.T.

But a new order, born anew, meaning, The Word, part of Godhead recreated again unlike the beginning, starting with the dying mortals.
So Jesus became the first begotten as He died give eternal life to the spiritually dead people and world. He become the beginning, initiator, source, ruler as rendered by some versions of the Bible.
This is the mystery of Christ. Except you want to erase John 1:1. Or, God and 'god' of JW are in mutual agreement negating the onenes of God or John made mistake or the scriptures are faulty.

danvon:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13 no he didn't

Now u have answered him... I tot u didn't know this verse to respond to that his lie

saintmark88:


Now u have answered him... I tot u didn't know this verse to respond to that his lie

they will never admit it they will be looking for counter

Peacefullove:



They Bolded Is what am asking, Angels are called " Sons of God " , same way Jesus was called " Son of God " .

What cause that ?

Why wasn't his Father addressed as such ?

Does it not mean every living thing that are made by God ( Yahweh ) are his sons ?

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13

How can a created being lay claim to be the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.............??


Rev 22 vs 12-14
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.…


Revelation 21:6
And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.

Isaiah 41:4
"Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.'"


Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

So as u can in Isaiah Yahweh uses this title of first and last, beginning and end, alpha and omega . but I'm revelation Jesus uses this same title for himself, could Jesus be taking title meant for his father.

Can any created being, human or angel, claim to be the first and last, alpha and omega. If none can, then there is a problem with what u have been taught in JW.

Now I know how difficult it is to negate all u have grown to know over the years. All m asking u is study these things with an open mind, and I will begin to see the truth.

lagostokd:

Begotten means to come out from

Jesus is the begotten of the Father means Jesus came out of the father.

How?

Jesus is the word of God (John 1:1). This means Jesus is the very word of God.

Men can record their voice on a voice recorder. Can God record his voice? God's technology is higher than that of man in an unimaginable way.

If men can produce a recorder to record their voice, then God can do more than a recorder.

God's very voice (his word) became flesh and that's who we know as Jesus. Your throne, O God, endureth forever

Hmmm..... Dis is interesting

saintmark88:


"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13

How can a created being lay claim to be the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.............??


Rev 22 vs 12-14
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.…


Revelation 21:6
And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.

Isaiah 41:4
"Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.'"


Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

So as u can in Isaiah Yahweh uses this title of first and last, beginning and end, alpha and omega . but I'm revelation Jesus uses this same title for himself, could Jesus be taking title meant for his father.

Can any created being, human or angel, claim to be the first and last, alpha and omega. If none can, then there is a problem with what u have been taught in JW.

Now I know how difficult it is to negate all u have grown to know over the years. All m asking u is study these things with an open mind, and I will begin to see the truth.

You asked if any created being can claim to be " the first and last, alpha omega"?
The answer is YES. JESUS CAN.

CAN ALPHA OMEGA HAVE A GOD? YES. JESUS IS ALPHA AND OMEGA and he has a GOD.
Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


God is a creator . Jesus said "my God" which means my CREATOR.

enilove:



You asked if any created being can claim to be " the first and last, alpha omega"?
The answer is YES. JESUS CAN.

CAN ALPHA OMEGA HAVE A GOD? YES. JESUS IS ALPHA AND OMEGA and he has a GOD.
Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


God is a creator . Jesus said "my God" which means my CREATOR.

Good.....so u agree that Jesus can lay claim to being the first and the last.....but u have not answered why Jesus who according to u is created can lay claim to be the first and the last.

I will address this my God means my creator nonsense u put up der in a yl, one at a time

I Talk Am!!! saintmark88 I've had enough experience with JWs

saintmark88:


Good.....so u agree that Jesus can lay claim to being the first and the last.....but u have not answered why Jesus who according to u is created can lay claim to be the first and the last.

I will address this my God means my creator nonsense u put up der in a yl, one at a time

Jesus started existing with his Father from the biginning, so he say he is the Ist and the last.
Apart from the book of John , we read it clearly below where Jesus said "I was brought forth ", meaning created from the biginning.
Proverbs 8:22-36 KJV
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him : and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
[32] Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
[34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
[35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord .
[36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


Verse 23 States " I was set up from everlasting...."

John 1:1-2 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God.

Remember that Jesus called his Father his God

enilove:


Jesus started existing with his Father from the biginning, so he say he is the Ist and the last.
Apart from the book of John , we read it clearly below where Jesus said "I was brought forth ", meaning created from the biginning.
Proverbs 8:22-36 KJV
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him : and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
[32] Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
[34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
[35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord .
[36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


Verse 23 States " I was set up from everlasting...."

John 1:1-2 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God.

Remember that Jesus called his Father his God

Guy o which kind lie be this, pls show me were that proverbs u quoted from was referring to Jesus??.... Show me nytyn that indicates Jesus.


Proverbs 8New International Version (NIV)


8 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;

Even a blind man can see proverbs 8 was clearly talking about wisdom not Jesus. U went to sch, u know what personification means.....wisdom was only been personified.

Thomas called Jesus his God....My lord and my God and Jesus didn't say, hey!!!......what are u doing, dnt j know I am created.

Jesus referin to his Father as my God doesn't mean he is created.. A created been cannot be the first and d last., d alpha and the omega, the beginning and d end....

I doubt if u know the meaning of Alpha and Omega , Begining and End, First and Last

danvon:
I Talk Am!!! saintmark88 I've had enough experience with JWs

They r a confused set of lies......this one prolly doesn't know the meaning of alpha and omega, first and last.

Argued with one who knew, he knew if he agreed that that statement was made by Jesus, he will contradict himself, so he decided that the statement was made by Jehova but was given to Jesus to give to the angel and then to John, my brova, I tire

saintmark88:


They r a confused set of lies......this one prolly doesn't know the meaning of alpha and omega, first and last.

Argued with one who knew, he knew if he agreed that that statement was made by Jesus, he will contradict himself, so he decided that the statement was made by Jehova but was given to Jesus to give to the angel and then to John, my brova, I tire

Just stop don't waste your time

Deprofessional:


The bible recorded that Jesus is the first fruit of every creation. He is the first entity to be created before the angels.

JW spotted.
You don't seem to understand the Bible.
With what was he created?

saintmark88:


Guy o which kind lie be this, pls show me were that proverbs u quoted from was referring to Jesus??.... Show me nytyn that indicates Jesus.


Proverbs 8New International Version (NIV)


8 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;

Even a blind man can see proverbs 8 was clearly talking about wisdom not Jesus. U went to sch, u know what personification means.....wisdom was only been personified.

Thomas called Jesus his God....My lord and my God and Jesus didn't say, hey!!!......what are u doing, dnt j know I am created.

Jesus referin to his Father as my God doesn't mean he is created.. A created been cannot be the first and d last., d alpha and the omega, the beginning and d end....

I doubt if u know the meaning of Alpha and Omega , Begining and End, First and Last

Proverbs 8:32-36 KJV
Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. [34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
[35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord .
[36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Just read the few verses above again , may God give you understanding, in Jesus name.

The greatest attribute of a God is creativity. We are created in the likeness of God , means we human beings are creators and we are gods.

Jesus said Jehovah is his God . God means a creator . Creator means to bring into existence. A son cannot come into existence without the father.
Jesus said God is his Father.

Read again the verse below again .

Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD , and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.

JESUS CALLED JEHOVAH HIS GOD. To call someone your God ,means he is your creator.

It us through a father that son can come into existence. The Bible says in :
John 3:16-17 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Tell me the meaning of MY GOD.

enilove:


Proverbs 8:32-36 KJV
Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. [34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
[35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord .
[36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Just read the few verses above again , may God give you understanding, in Jesus name.

The greatest attribute of a God is creativity. We are created in the likeness of God , means we human beings are creators and we are gods.

Jesus said Jehovah is his God . God means a creator . Creator means to bring into existence. A son cannot come into existence without the father.
Jesus said God is his Father.

Read again the verse below again .

Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD , and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.

JESUS CALLED JEHOVAH HIS GOD. To call someone your God ,means he is your creator.

It us through a father that son can come into existence. The Bible says in :
John 3:16-17 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Tell me the meaning of MY GOD.

U r just talking here n der, put urself together. I dnt argue on issues of faith. U want to win u win.

saintmark88:


"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13

How can a created being lay claim to be the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.............??


Rev 22 vs 12-14
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.…


Revelation 21:6
And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.

Isaiah 41:4
"Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.'"


Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

So as u can in Isaiah Yahweh uses this title of first and last, beginning and end, alpha and omega . but I'm revelation Jesus uses this same title for himself, could Jesus be taking title meant for his father.

Can any created being, human or angel, claim to be the first and last, alpha and omega. If none can, then there is a problem with what u have been taught in JW.

Now I know how difficult it is to negate all u have grown to know over the years. All m asking u is study these things with an open mind, and I will begin to see the truth.

Pastor saintmark88

I would have really appreciate it if you try at least to discuss that revelation 3 vs 14 , Because it is not peacefullove that wrote it . Why are u running away from it ?

Jesus using a title with his father doesn't mean anything, Even King Nebuchadnezzar shared the title King of King with Jesus , I guess they must be equal in rank , are they [/b] ?

The question a logical person should ask when two people share same title is .. In what sense was each is using the title ? do you care to ask this ? Sentimental person like you will say Jesus is same as Peter because both are called " Apostle " .


abeg, explain revelation 3 vs 14 ( Authorised version preffered )

Peacefullove:



Pastor saintmark88

I would have really appreciate it if you try at least to discuss that revelation 3 vs 14 , Because it is not peacefullove that wrote it . Why are u running away from it ?

Jesus using a title with his father doesn't mean anything, Even King Nebuchadnezzar shared the title King of King with Jesus , I guess they must be equal in rank , are they [/b] ?

The question a logical person should ask when two people share same title is .. In what sense was each is using the title ? do you care to ask this ? Sentimental person like you will say Jesus is same as Peter because both are called " Apostle " .


abeg, explain revelation 3 vs 14 ( Authorised version preffered )

I choose not to disturb myself with someone who eauates Jesus with Nebuchadnezzar a common man. Shows how low grade ur understanding of scripture is

MightySparrow:


Christ existed with God the Father in the beginning. John 1:1. How and when this beginning was, not known. He was with God and also was God. How not known or mentioned in the scriptures. However, Issish 43: 10 says,

'Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.'

What constitues the formation we don't know.
Yet John 1:1 says The Word and God are one.
The first creation by the actions of Adam and Eve were condemned. Death came. All came to die with Adam.

The word (the raw material for creation) now came into a living dust unlike a statue in Genesis. John 1: 14. Claims the word became incarnated in a Virgin.
Now as the last Adam, became the beginning of a new order of creation of God. Hence the doctrine of regeneration not mentioned in O.T.

But a new order, born anew, meaning, The Word, part of Godhead recreated again unlike the beginning, starting with the dying mortals.
So Jesus became the first begotten as He died give eternal life to the spiritually dead people and world. He become the beginning, initiator, source, ruler as rendered by some versions of the Bible.
This is the mystery of Christ. Except you want to erase John 1:1. Or, God and 'god' of JW are in mutual agreement negating the onenes of God or John made mistake or the scriptures are faulty.

who ask you if Jesus is God or not?


Mighty sparrow , Simple question : explain Revelation 3 vs 14 ?

are u scared ?

saintmark88:



I choose not to disturb myself with someone who eauates Jesus with Nebuchadnezzar a common man. Shows how low grade ur understanding of scripture is

Better I also not disturb myself with someone who equate Jesus a created being with Yahweh because of first and last, Shows how woeful your understanding is.


Mr Jesus is greater than holy spirit no wonder u talk any how , explain Revelation 3 vs 14 now, You run

lagostokd:

Begotten means to come out from

Jesus is the begotten of the Father means Jesus came out of the father.

How?

Jesus is the word of God (John 1:1). This means Jesus is the very word of God.

Men can record their voice on a voice recorder. Can God record his voice? God's technology is higher than that of man in an unimaginable way.

If men can produce a recorder to record their voice, then God can do more than a recorder.


God's very voice (his word) became flesh and that's who we know as Jesus. Your throne, O God, endureth forever

ojobolinda , u saw this . one of the most silly comments have ever read on nairaland .


Mr, If Gods voice has become flesh , Abeg, which voice was coming out again when Jesus ( the voice ) was getting baptized ? I thought his voice has become flesh, yet he was still able to say " This Is my son ," ?

Please explain am

Peacefullove:


Better I also not disturb myself with someone who equate Jesus a created being with Yahweh because of first and last, Shows how woeful your understanding is.


Mr Jesus is greater than holy spirit no wonder u talk any how , explain Revelation 3 vs 14 now, You run

Low grade brain.....u r sick

PaChukwudi44:


Jesus was not created.He is of the same substance as the father."through him l things were created.Not one thing was created without him"

Abeg prove it by explaining revelation 3 vs 14 or is your bible contradicting itself ?

Colossian 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creation

Without any doubt, he was created by God. He is the first fruit of God, the firstborn.

Peacefullove:


who ask you if Jesus is God or not?


Mighty sparrow , Simple question : explain Revelation 3 vs 14 ?

are u scared ?

Simple answer:
Rev. 3 :14. Jesus is the originator, source, initiator of creation. The agent of God's creation but not created but begotten.



Note: explaining a scripture alone in isolation cannot give correct and absolute Idea of information intended.

ojobolinda:
Hmmm..... Dis is interesting

He said Jesus is Gods voice , Ask him if God become voiceless after Jesus became flesh ? ask him if God could not speak for the three days that Jesus died ? ask him where the voice that speak when Jesus was baptized came from ? .

that is enough to tell you, what he said is a made up lie

MightySparrow:



Simple answer:
Rev. 3 :14. Jesus is the originator, source, initiator of creation. The agent of God's creation but not created but begotten.

Buhahahaha, now this is getting interesting ... you avoid voicing out that he is the beginning of Creation of God . which I know will close all this argument in a seconds .

you now opt to use " Source " " Originator " to obscure the truth of the matter .

am not arguing with you , All I need is for you to tell me if your Bible is contradicting itself .


Your bible at 1 Corinthian 8 vs 6 said the Father of Jesus Is the SOURCE from whom all things came .

You mightysparrow claimed the source is Jesus , Abeg who is lying between you and Paul ? or is your bible contradicting itself ?

( Question 1 )

Note: explaining a scripture alone in isolation cannot give correct and absolute Idea of information intended.

Yeshua used one single bible verse to seek truth from the Pharisees and shut their mouth - Psalm 110 vs 1 . , so that doesn't hold water .

Answer my question 1 above .

saintmark88:

Low grade brain.....u r sick

Your true color is gradually coming out , truth dey bitter sha

Jesus Christ was invented by emperor Constantine and his gang of political monsters in 325ce. Jesus Christ is an imaginary bastard.

Peacefullove:


Buhahahaha, now this is getting interesting ... you avoid voicing out that he is the beginning of Creation of God . which I know will close all this argument in a seconds .

you now opt to use " Source " " Originator " to obscure the truth of the matter .

am not arguing with you , All I need is for you to tell me if your Bible is contradicting itself .


Your bible at 1 Corinthian 8 vs 6 said the Father of Jesus Is the SOURCE from whom all things came .

You mightysparrow claimed the source is Jesus , Abeg who is lying between you and Paul ? or is your bible contradicting itself ?

( Question 1 )



Yeshua used one single bible verse to seek truth from the Pharisees and shut their mouth - Psalm 110 vs 1 . , so that doesn't hold water .

Answer my question 1 above .

Explain John 1: 1 - 3

MightySparrow:


Explain John 1: 1 - 3

Seems your Bible is contradicting itself right ?

My question 1 which arise as a result of your explanation and distortion of facts from Rev 3 vs 14 still remains