jamiru:

furthermore, if peradventure there is 'no' God, i dont lose,  becos i simple die and that is the end; but what if peradventure there is a God after all this, i wont lose becos i have chosen to believe He exist and a rewarder of them that deligently seek Him.

petres_007:

Thanx a bunch for this! Sometimes I wonder if atheists ever think of this. 

jamiru:

y know wat i choose the God of my Lord Jesus! and yes faith to the otherman is gambling becos u have choosen to hold on to an idea even though u know that there is another option.

e.g 3 hebrew lads to nebuchanezar - aint bowing becos Our God will save us but even if He doesnt, and we die, we still wont bow, so faith is choosing to stand for sumthin even tho there is an option.

bawomolo:

Christianity isn't based on a gamble it's based on total faith.

It's one thing to believe God exists, it's another thing to prove this God is an interventionist jealous sissy.

There are too many Gods to choose from if you are trying to play that game.

davidylan:

I'm not sure you've ever sat down to carefully consider the fact that atheism itself is based on total faith . . . faith that God doesnt exist.

jamiru:

lets make an assumption.

lets assume that after reading thru various threads u have created, to riducle christianity - lets assume other religion are put aside. and i have seen how u have presented your facts
1. There is no God
2. that the bible cannot be the word of a divine creator becasue of its contradiction
3. that we are on our own here with no divinity, supernatural, devils etc

now if ur assumption is true, WHAT HAVE U GAINED BY BEING AN ATHIEST and WHAT DO U HOPE I WILL GAIN BY BEING AN ATHIEST? u could kindly highlight point by point the benefits that entails.
thanks

KAG:

It all obviously depends on what type of Christian you were before your hypothetical deconversion. If, for instance, you were the stereotypical Christian blinded by fanaticism and closed to any type of logic or reasoning that you interpret as contradictory to the Bible, then becoming an atheist may help. You also tend to learn more.

KAG:

It all obviously depends on what type of Christian you were before your hypothetical deconversion. If, for instance, you were the stereotypical Christian blinded by fanaticism and closed to any type of logic or reasoning that you interpret as contradictory to the Bible, then becoming an atheist may help. You also tend to learn more.

jamiru:

if it is what u mean fanatical faith blinded to the reasoning (rebelling rebuffing in short anti athiest) of evolution and that i gain nothing then i prefer to be such a christian 4life. moreover i am already learning that there is nothing to be gained by being an athiest so i am sorry, i am stuck to my "delusion" for it gives a better hope of here and hereafter [/b]than athiesm.

read this confession from a serial killer i read from this website- http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/07/07/darwin-or-lincoln#fnList_1_1
“If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. [b]When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing.
Jeffrey Dahmer, in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, November 29, 1994.[/b]

jamiru:

if it is what u mean fanatical faith blinded to the reasoning (rebelling rebuffing in short anti athiest) of evolution and that i gain nothing then i prefer to be such a christian 4life. moreover i am already learning that there is nothing to be gained by being an athiest so i am sorry, i am stuck to my "delusion" for it gives a better hope of here and hereafter than athiesm.

read this confession from a serial killer i read from this website- http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/07/07/darwin-or-lincoln#fnList_1_1
“If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. [b]When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing.
Jeffrey Dahmer, in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, November 29, 1994.[/b]

jamiru:

if it is what u mean fanatical faith blinded to the reasoning (rebelling rebuffing in short anti athiest) of evolution and that i gain nothing then i prefer to be such a christian 4life. moreover i am already learning that there is nothing to be gained by being an athiest so i am sorry, i am stuck to my "delusion" for it gives a better hope of here and hereafter than athiesm.

KAG:

That's your prerogative. You asked a question; I provided an answer. Of course I could point out that one needn't be an atheist to accept the validity of evolution and other sciences in general, or that more theists than atheists accept them; but I suspect, given your preferences, that it would be pointless.

thanks for stating the obvious - my rerogative

Before I respond to this quote, I have to ask you first, what are we to make of the religious serial killers? And since you are a Christian, what are we to make of serial killers that allegedly take their cues from the Christian God and read the Bible religiously?

Ok where are christian serial killers mentioned and have they confessed that they were after what God stated or did in the bible

Now to Dahmer. The point would be for the betterment of ones society and loved ones. One needn't believe there's a supreme being to act with love. In my opinion, showing love to others because you care is more moral than trying to do so because of fear of a supreme being.

Tudór:

Frow what i deduce from your posts, you're into religion for GAIN to satisfy your GREED.
hi tudor, are u not greedy also? well if my being 'greedy' for something better, i dont think is a problem of yours neither a wrong desire abi?
Man has always wanted to live longer and invented the afterlife as a feel good mechanism to escape the reality.
Are u sure scientist are not also working on prologing life on earth if possible stop the death process. why do we celebrate pple that live 100 or so years?

There are human laws, rules and regulations that when you go against them you get punished by the law.
That serial killer like any christian, muslim or idol worshipper can do, broke the law and he'll be punished. Every sensible person will modify his behaviour to acceptable standards in order to avoid punishment by the society.

I personally am more moral than abraham, moses, gideon and solomon put together. . .i dnt go around killing women and children, engaging in human and animal sacrifice,stealing and looting lands, having 700wives and 300 mistresses. . . .yet all these men are supposedly righteous in the eyes of your god. . .who punished moses for genocide and ethnic cleansing?


[b]you seee that is why i Love the bible - the word of God. God deliberately allowed men under His inspiration to write all this for my learning so that i dont follow after thier footsteps.and He is not afraid, to be scrutinized by man's finite wisdom, by stating that His servants did all that, however, he does not expect me to follow in their footsteps.unlike darwinsm which stated that their are superior species and less should be discarded & the strongest survive, weak ones be trampled to dead
T[/b]oday ex president of serbia Boris M. is facing trial and being brought to book in the hague.

Human laws are now capable of keeping us in line. . .we don't need phantom gods to fearfully maintain morality especially when the gods themselves are morally bankrupt and callous. . .case in point. . .allah and jehovah.

wirinet:

The gains from becoming an atheist are immeasurable. If what you mean by gain is expecting euphoric happiness or undefined happiness in the "afterlife" or having having a childlike expectation of being under the protection of a "God" mother or father complete with milk and manna, or if happiness means being under the security of following the popular religion or even party, then there is nothing to gain from being an atheist.

An atheist's gain is freedom, freedom of his mind from fear, fear of Gods, Devils, Demons, spirits, witches, Pastors, Babalawos and best of all fear of death. The only fear an atheist entertain is fear of armed robbers,  mad policemen and most of all fear of religious fanatics, both Christian and Muslim. That freedom is exhilarating. I compare attaining atheism to attaining Buddhahood  or attaining Nirvana, you see the whole world as it really is and not through the rose tinted glass of any other person.

Attaining atheism is not an easy task, no body converts an atheist, it can can only be attained through hard work, mentally and spiritually. That is why i never attempt to convert any one. When one is ready for it, the person will seek for it.

I can in all honesty tell you that i only got to know true happiness until i was able to free my mind from the shackles of religion.

wirinet:

The gains from becoming an atheist are immeasurable. If what you mean by gain is expecting euphoric happiness or undefined happiness in the "afterlife" or having having a childlike expectation of being under the protection of a "God" mother or father complete with milk and manna, or if happiness means being under the security of following the popular religion or even party, then there is nothing to gain from being an atheist.

An atheist's gain is freedom, freedom of his mind from fear, fear of Gods, Devils, Demons, spirits, witches, Pastors, Babalawos and best of all fear of death. The only fear an atheist entertain is fear of armed robbers,  mad policemen and most of all fear of religious fanatics, both Christian and Muslim. That freedom is exhilarating. I compare attaining atheism to attaining Buddhahood  or attaining Nirvana, you see the whole world as it really is and not through the rose tinted glass of any other person.

Attaining atheism is not an easy task, no body converts an atheist, it can can only be attained through hard work, mentally and spiritually. That is why i never attempt to convert any one. When one is ready for it, the person will seek for it.

I can in all honesty tell you that i only got to know true happiness until i was able to free my mind from the shackles of religion.

Naira.:

At the initial post,

Speaking for myself and I think alot of other atheists/agnostics/skeptics etc will agree with me.  We are not atheists because there is something to gain.  Most of us did not wake up and say "I'm going to be an atheist because I will gain blah, blah, blah."  Most of us initially belonged to a religion and one day had an "Aha moment" and things just didn't fit like they did before.  At least for me that was how it began, I accidentally stumbled on some information last year and was like "WOW".  After further research and educating myself coupled with deep intellectual thinking, I realized I just didn't believe in God any longer and I finally quit religion, it took me about a year before I made the final decision.  I figured if God existed and truly knew everything, he would know I did not believe so why pretend.  

Honestly, after I gave up religion and its dogma,  it was liberating, I felt happier, more fulfilled and felt I had a bigger purpose in life.  In reality, I don't think the feeling can be fully and accurately captured in words but I'm sure other atheists will understand what I'm trying to say.  It became clear to me that the fate of humanity rests on our shoulders not on God.  We, as humans are the ones able to help humanity and we should play a bigger role in helping ourselves instead of waiting on God.  I believe the moment we abandon every single division ala race, religion, tribe, sexuality etc,  we would be amazed by what we can do together as a people.  

With regards to what you will gain,   Atheism is not a religion so I do not think atheism is one of those things you can convert to.  I believe it's something you find kind of like how the say we find ourselves and who we truly are.  



Off topic,  I'm new to this board but[b] I find it quite appalling how badly people speak to/and of others' views.  If you believe in Jesus, good for you.  If you believe in Allah, good for you.  If you don't believe in any deity, good for you.  Why do we feel the need to call each other fools, damn one another to hell or call each other delusional?  Maybe it's the humanist in me, but I don't see why people can't present their arguments or sides in a manner respectful to all others.[/b]

Naira.:

Very very well said, I totally agree

Tudór:

First let me say welcome on board. . .it's always nice to see a new atheist out there. . . .
In an ideal world this should be the norm. But believe me NL is a whole new kettle of fish. . . .i hope you keep your cool and don't tip over the edge. . .cheers

Chrisbenogor:

Wait till david comes around

davidylan:

Leave me in peace.