When are these folks going to give us a credible alternative to creationism? All is see is the same tired old bashing of the bible.

Why must there be an alternatve? An alternative isn't needed to debunk the myths of creation. . . .

Tudór:

Why must there be an alternatve? An alternative isn't needed to debunk the myths of creation. . . .

the only reason you think an alternative shldnt be necessary is because you dont have a plausible one. Evolution has long been debunked anyway.

Besides it takes more faith to believe in your myth about the earth just appearing out of nowhere than is required to believe in the bible.

davidylan:

the only reason you think an alternative shldnt be necessary is because you dont have a plausible one. Evolution has long been debunked anyway.

Besides it takes more faith to believe in your myth about the earth just appearing out of nowhere than is required to believe in the bible.

That is so profound

davidylan:

the only reason you think an alternative shldnt be necessary is because you dont have a plausible one. Evolution has long been debunked anyway.

Besides it takes more faith to believe in your myth about the earth just appearing out of nowhere than is required to believe in the bible.

This is just wrong. Nowhere did i state the above as my view point.

My personal view when it comes to the origin of our world is, if it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt then i don't subscribe. Faith is rubbish and irrational to me.

noetic2:

a. what are lies?

Most of what you have been writing on nairaland could be described as LIES. . . . . .

b. how do u detect a lie? what constitutes a lie?

When people read your post the see all the lies that lies therein. . . .

c. whats the link between the bible and lies?

Here are about two amongst the many manylies that are inside the bible. . . . . The bible tells lies when it says that adam is the first man to be created. . . and that some day the stars from the sky will fall into the earth. . . . .

So u agree that we were born and did not Evolve.

When did i ever say that i believe in evolution?

a. How exactly did the pioneer parents come into existence?

I don't know and neither you or the lying writers of the bible who said that the sun moves around the earth. . . .

a.what are these postulations? why EXACTLY do u disbelieve any of them?

Why should i believe what bronze aged people write without any evidence at all? As Tudor has said faith without evidence is very irrelevant. . . why believe in the lies of other men just because they say that you need to believe in them?

b. what is ur evidence/ basis for disbelieving the biblical account of the universe?

The universe as it it says that the bible god did has nothing to do with its creation. . . . the universe as it it makes the bible god look to small and insignificant. . . .Unless of you believe things without evidence at all. . . . .

c. Dont u consider it ridiculously that u have no idea about how the universe came into existence?

Do the lying writers of genesis have any idea how the universe came into existence?

Tudór:

This is just wrong. Nowhere did i state the above as my view point.

My personal view when it comes to the origin of our world is, if it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt then i don't subscribe. Faith is rubbish and irrational to me.

this is idiotic, how then do you believe that tomorrow will occur? Is that not by blind faith? Did you see next week in your dreams? How do you know the earth wont fold up in 2 days time?

Faith is irrational to you but your whole life is based around it no?

davidylan:

this is idiotic, how then do you believe that tomorrow will occur? Is that not by blind faith? Did you see next week in your dreams? How do you know the earth wont fold up in 2 days time?

Faith is irrational to you but your whole life is based around it no?

I can not believe what I have just read The very ridiculous excuses these people will throw around just to keep themselves happy while lying to themselves at the same time.

He knows tommorow will come because he has lived through and experinced so many days before. How does that require any faith

Thanks toneyb you took the words right outta my mouth.
I truly wonder at this davidylan. . . .chai!

toneyb:

I can not believe what I have just read The very ridiculous excuses these people will throw around just to keep themselves happy while lying to themselves at the same time.

He knows tommorow will come because he has lived through and experinced so many days before. How does that require any faith

this is disgusting circular reasoning.

So because the 8th of August occured the 10th must of necessity occur? who told you? Did the earth tell you it was going to exist forever? How do you know a fireball will not consume the earth on the 30th of October?

Are you not sleeping to wake up tomorrow based entirely on blind faith? You can live in denial all you want.

davidylan:

this is disgusting circular reasoning.

So because the 8th of August occured the 10th must of necessity occur? who told you? Did the earth tell you it was going to exist forever?

Where did I say that the earth is going to exist forever?

How do you  know a fireball will not consume the earth on the 30th of October?

Where did I say that a fireball can not consume the earth on the 30th of october. Your analogy is very ridiculous he says he only belief in things based on evidence not on faith and you came up with this ridiculous analogy. He has experinced and lived through so many days hence he believes that another day will come. How does that require faith?

Are you not sleeping to wake up tomorrow based entirely on blind faith? You can live in denial all you want.

I laugh tire I wan die. How do you know that I believe that I will definately wake up tommorow? That aside I have lived through so many days and I know that another day will come based on the evidence(my experince from previous days that I have lived through). So my knowledge of another day is based on evidence and experience not on faith.

toneyb:

Where did I say that the earth is going to exist forever?

How do you know it wont exist forever? Did the earth whisper its lifespan into your ears?

toneyb:

Where did I say that a fireball can not consume the earth on the 30th of october. Your analogy is very ridiculous he says he only belief in things based on evidence not on faith and you came up with this ridiculous analogy. He has experinced and lived through so many days hence he believes that another day will come. How does that require faith?

If you dont know that all the above requires GREATER FAITH than required to believe the earth was formed in 6 days then you live in horrible denial.
so the evidence that tomorrow will come is that he saw yesterday? How silly.

So because i saw wind 2 minutes ago at exactly 10:30am . . . there will be wind at 10.30am too? How do you know there will be tomorrow? who told you? Where is your evidence? Have you seen tomorrow?

toneyb:

I laugh tire I wan die. How do you know that I believe that I will definately wake up tommorow? That aside I have lived through so many days and I know that another day will come based on the evidence(my experince from previous days that I have lived through). So my knowledge of another day is based on evidence and experience not on faith.

Experience isnt the same as "evidence" . . . i want solid empirical evidence that tomorrow will indeed take place. Dont bullshit me with that faith mantra that i will see tomorrow because i saw yesterday.

mazaje:

The bible is exactly what it is the writings, ideas, fantasies thoughts and wishes of ancient men.  . . . .All I know about the bible is backed up by actual facts, not some subjective claim of magic. . . . .   The bible is like any book other book the only differennce is that it contains the word god as its central figure. The book indeed can be interpreted any way one sees fit if you can claim a magical way.

If the bible is from some omnipotent being then there is no reason it shouldn’t be able to make a book good for all generations to adhere to without the god having to change himself as the reasoning and life style of the people changes. . . . .   What we have is a in the bible is a book which is mostly  a compilation of stories by xenophobic, war mongers and agrarians, and then later by more cosmopolitan people but  still by people all around all using words that mean certain things that people now insist aren’t what god “really meant” and people who cherry pick whatever they want to believe in and discard what they don't want to believe in.

The bible is a book about a central figure called god which can be used or interpreted purely based on the personal interpretation of the reader and the image of the god he/she has in her mind. . . Most Christians claims the "holy spirit" tells them what  the god of the bible "really meant" but the problem is they each have different answers. Same with everyone else and there is no way to tell who has the right message since the god they are always talking about and speaking on his belahf doesnt' ever seem interested in telling everyone who is right and who is wrong, only each person claiming that they and only they have it right. Most dont even agree on the basic nature of the god they are talking about and they all use the bible.

So the bible is just a collection of stories about life from a very skwed perspective written by people, complied by people and used by people to present a case for their personal god based on their personal interpretation of the bible and what they feels it says. . . . .The bible is just a book written by humans who want people to believe their opinions about life and who also want people to live their lives based on their own opinion and the opinions of people that lived before them but using a god figure to put every body that agrees with their personal opinion in line. . . .

I cant make any sense out of this. . . . where is the alternative u are attempting to present?

mazaje:

Most of what you have been writing on nairaland could be described as LIES. . . . . .

When people read your post the see all the lies that lies therein. . . .

Here are about two amongst the many manylies that are inside the bible. . . . . The bible tells lies when it says that adam is the first man to be created. . . and that some day the stars from the sky will fall into the earth. . . . .

When did i ever say that i believe in evolution?

I don't know and neither you or the lying writers of the bible who said that the sun moves around the earth. . . .

Why should i believe what bronze aged people write without any evidence at all? As Tudor has said faith without evidence is very irrelevant. . . why believe in the lies of other men just because they say that you need to believe in them?

The universe as it it says that the bible god did has nothing to do with its creation. . . . the universe as it it makes the bible god look to small and insignificant. . . .Unless of you believe things without evidence at all. . . . .

Do the lying writers of genesis have any idea how the universe came into existence?

Look at how this SHAMELESS fraud skipped every of the questions . . . . .

a. You cannot define "lies". . . . that tells that u are delusive ignorant of the issues at stake. how then do u know the bible is lying?

b. If Adam was the not the first parent? who was? how did the pioneer parents come into existence?

c. How exactly do u know that the stars would not fall?

d. since u dont believe in evolution. . .what EXACTLY do u believe in? care to define ur beliefs?

e. Dont u consider ur self helplessly ignorant not to know how the universe began?

davidylan:

How do you know it wont exist forever? Did the earth whisper its lifespan into your ears?

If you dont know that all the above requires GREATER FAITH than required to believe the earth was formed in 6 days then you live in horrible denial.
so the evidence that tomorrow will come is that he saw yesterday?  How silly.

So because i saw wind 2 minutes ago at exactly 10:30am . . . there will be wind at 10.30am too? How do you know there will be tomorrow? who told you? Where is your evidence? Have you seen tomorrow?

Experience isnt the same as "evidence" . . . i want solid empirical evidence that tomorrow will indeed take place. Dont bullshit me with that faith mantra that i will see tomorrow because i saw yesterday.

As usual you're desperately looking for a hook to hang your hat. . .

Science has shown that the earth has been rotating for thousands of years and this to us is the natural order of things there's no reason to believe it'll suddenly stop. If it does fine, it'll be a new experience and then we'll always make room for that possibility in the future.
Just like gravity when you throw a stone, you naturally expect it to come down that is not faith but expectation proven through experience.

Quite unlike your ridiculous analogy, winds don't necessarily blow at 10:30am each day.

Tudór:

As usual you're desperately looking for a hook to hang your hat. . .

I think the fact is you cant see beyond your nose. It takes more faith to believe that the earth will survive the next 10 yrs than is required to believe that Jeremiah or King Herod existed . . . Oh wait . . . we can find the tomb of King Herod but where is your proof for tomorrow?

Tudór:

Science has shown that the earth has been rotating for thousands of years and this to us is the natural order of things there's no reason to believe it'll suddenly stop. If it does fine, it'll be a new experience and then we'll always make room for that possibility in the future.
Just like gravity when you throw a stone, you naturally expect it to come down that is not faith but expectation proven through experience.

This is rubbish . . . how do you know the earth wont stop next week? How did science figure that out? Is that not faith at work?
Why do we need "belief" rather than science to prove that the earth will continue spinning for the next few yrs?

Tudór:

Quite unlike your ridiculous analogy, winds don't necessarily blow at 10:30am each day.

But you dont know! you're just assuming. what if wind does actually blow everyday at 10.30am but at a speed too low to detect? Can you see wind? Did it tell you when it was blowing or not?

Tudór:

As usual you're desperately looking for a hook to hang your hat. . .

Science has shown that the earth has been rotating for thousands of years and this to us is the natural order of things there's no reason to believe it'll suddenly stop. If it does fine, it'll be a new experience and then we'll always make room for that possibility in the future.
Just like gravity when you throw a stone, you naturally expect it to come down that is not faith but expectation proven through experience.

Quite unlike your ridiculous analogy, winds don't necessarily blow at 10:30am each day.

This is false and very very very embarrassing.

1. Hoe EXACTLY do u know that the earth would not stop rotating? is there any reason to believe that it would not stop?

2. do u actually know the meaning of experience? experience refers to past events. . . . experience has NO connection with future events.
when u attempt to use the past to determine the future. . . . u are said to have FAITH.
what differs is the subject of ur faith.

3. There is no scientific evidence that as at yet suggests that there would be a tomorrow. If there is one, can u please draw my attention to it.

davidylan:

I think the fact is you cant see beyond your nose. It takes more faith to believe that the earth will survive the next 10 yrs than is required to believe that Jeremiah or King Herod existed . . . Oh wait . . . we can find the tomb of King Herod but where is your proof for tomorrow? 

This is rubbish . . . how do you know the earth wont stop next week? How did science figure that out? Is that not faith at work? 
Why do we need "belief" rather than science to prove that the earth will continue spinning for the next few yrs?

I do not know if the earth will stop next week.

If you tell me Tudor the earth stops tomorrow.
Even though from experience i expect the earth to keep rotating all i can do is wait for tomorrow.
If then you say in the next 10 years the world would end, unless you can provide evidence to that effect i'll definately stick to what i've experienced.

But you dont know! you're just assuming. what if wind does actually blow everyday at 10.30am but at a speed too low to detect? Can you see wind?  Did it tell you when it was blowing or not?

If winds do actually blow at 10:30am every morning then so be it.
BTW wind is air in motion. . . .it wouldn't be far fetched for we to have air moving around continiously no matter how small.

Tudór:

I do not know if the earth will stop next week.

If you tell me Tudor the earth stops tomorrow.
Even though from experience i expect the earth to keep rotating all i can do is wait for tomorrow.
If then you say in the next 10 years the world would end, unless you can provide evidence to that effect[b] i'll definately stick to what i've experienced[/b].If winds do actually blow at 10:30am every morning then so be it.
BTW wind is air in motion. . . .it wouldn't be far fetched for we to have air moving around continiously no matter how small.

so why is this dogma not acceptable when christians apply it to their belief in GOD?. . . . ,

you are helplessly riddled in contradicting hypocrisy.

Tudór:

I do not know if the earth will stop next week.

If you tell me Tudor the earth stops tomorrow.
Even though from experience i expect the earth to keep rotating all i can do is wait for tomorrow.
If then you say in the next 10 years the world would end, unless you can provide evidence to that effect i'll definately stick to what i've experienced.

Again the silly atheist runs around his own inadequacy asking me to provide evidence when he cant provide any.

Experience is not evidence . . . if you have no evidence that tomorrow will occur then all you have left is FAITH that since you saw yesterday tomorrow is a certainty. You "expect" the earth to continue rotating . . . but you dont know . . . you simply BELIEVE or have FAITH that the earth wont stop in the next 5 mins no? I find it easier to believe that Christ existed . . . at least i can read books!

That's as plain as day . . . you dont have to bury your head in denial.

noetic2:

so why is this dogma not acceptable when christians apply it to their belief in GOD?. . . . ,

you are helplessly riddled in contradicting hypocrisy.

noetic2:

so why is this dogma not acceptable when christians apply it to their belief in GOD?. . . . ,

you are helplessly riddled in contradicting hypocrisy.

If your so called experience cannot be proven or tested thats considered delusion until you show otherwise.
Can you show otherwise noetic?

Tudór:

If your so called experience cannot be proven or tested thats considered delusion until you show otherwise.
Can you show otherwise noetic?

Have you shown us that the earth will continue spinning on the 10th of March 2018?

davidylan:

Again the silly atheist runs around his own inadequacy asking me to provide evidence when he cant provide any.

Again you keep dancing around in circles for jesus.

Experience is not evidence . . . if you have no evidence that tomorrow will occur then all you have left is FAITH that since you saw yesterday tomorrow is a certainty.

Again i tell you for the millionth time we don't claim tomorrow as a certainty but as a natural "expectation" based on experience.

You "expect" the earth to continue rotating . . . but you dont know . . . you simply BELIEVE or have FAITH that the earth wont stop in the next 5 mins no? I find it easier to believe that Christ existed . . . at least i can read books!

That's as plain as day . . . you dont have to bury your head in denial.

Again you keep bundling faith and expectation based on experience as one.
Let me enlighten you alittle.

Faith according to the oxford dictionary is : Complete trust or Confidence - does that feel like what you feel for jesus?

Meanwhile Expectation is : To Regard as LIKELY to Happen or Regard as LIKELY to be.- notice the touch of uncertainty there.

We do not know for sure but EXPECT the earth to keep rotating next ten years based on what we know and experienced.
That is quite different from FAITH (complete trust and confidence) which has a touch of certainty in it.
Get it?

Tudór:

Again i tell you for the millionth time we don't claim tomorrow as a certainty but as a natural "expectation" based on experience.Again you keep bundling faith and expectation based on experience as one.
Let me enlighten you alittle.

Faith according to the oxford dictionary is : Complete trust or Confidence - does that feel like what you feel for jesus?

Meanwhile Expectation is : To Regard as LIKELY to Happen or Regard as LIKELY to be.- notice the touch of uncertainty there.

We do not know for sure but EXPECT the earth to keep rotating next ten years based on what we know and experienced.
That is quite different from FAITH (complete trust and confidence) which has a touch of certainty in it.
Get it?

you're being a decietful hypocrite simply dancing around with words. Do you merely "regard" tomorrow as "likely" to happen?

Is a "natural expectation based on experience" an empirical piece of EVIDENCE that tomorrow will exist?

davidylan:

How do you know it wont exist forever? Did the earth whisper its lifespan into your ears?

How do you who asked the question know that a fire ball might come and destroy the earth?

If you dont know that all the above requires GREATER FAITH than required to believe the earth was formed in 6 days then you live in horrible denial.
so the evidence that tomorrow will come is that he saw yesterday?  How silly.

Did you just say this because you wanted to display you deluded stupidity or because you truly believe in what you have written? The earth rotates on its axis and has been doing that for billions of years. Rotation of the earth on it's axis causes day and night. That is my evidence that another day will come because the earth is on constant rotation. Sure the evidence that tomorrow will come is that the earth is rotating on its axis it requires no faith that you keep forcing your deluded mind into thinking it does require faith does not mean it does.

So because i saw wind 2 minutes ago at exactly 10:30am . . . there will be wind at 10.30am too? How do you know there will be tomorrow? who told you? Where is your evidence? Have you seen tomorrow?

Is this part of your stupidity or has your pathetic delusion reached new hights? . I know that there will be tommorow because the earth is rotating on its axis and has been doing so for billions of years. There is more than enough evidence to show that the earth is rotating on its axis. I might not live to see it but it will definitely come.

Experience isnt the same as "evidence" . . . i want solid empirical evidence that tomorrow will indeed take place. Dont bullshit me with that faith mantra that i will see tomorrow because i saw yesterday.

The earth is rotating on its axis and that is the evidence that you need that another day will come. But as usual I know that you will come up with some more deluded and pathetic analogies that only make you sound more stupid, pathetic and desperate.

Tudór:

If your so called experience cannot be proven or tested thats considered delusion until you show otherwise.
Can you show otherwise noetic?

what do u mean by "proven" and "tested" ?

how exactly do u prove? to whom?

toneyb:

How do you who asked the question know that a fire ball might come and destroy the earth?

Did you just say this because you wanted to display you deluded stupidity or because you truly believe in what you have written? The earth rotates on its axis and has been doing that for billions of years. Rotation of the earth on it's axis causes day and night. That is my evidence that another day will come because is on constant rotation. Sure the evidence that tomorrow will come is that the earth is rotating on its axis it requires no faith that you keep forcing your deluded mind into thinking it does require faith does not mean it does.

Is this part of your stupidity or has your pathetic delusion reached new hights? . I know that there will be tommorow because the earth is rotating on its axis and has been doing so for billions of years. There is more than enough evidence to show that the earth is rotating on its axis. I might not live to see it but it will definitely come.

The earth is rotating on its axis and that is the evidence that you need that another day will come. But as usual I know that you will come up with some more deluded and pathetic analogies that only make you sound more stupid, pathetic and desperate.

** yawns ** I have heard this meaningless tales over a million times. 

Why cant the rotation of the earth be the basis for believing that tomorrow will not come?
do u recognise the power of ur choice?. . . . . .based on the evidence that the earth rotates. . .u choose to conclude that tomorrow will be. . . , based on that same evidence MR AAA concludes that tomorrow will NOT be.

What u have both exercised is called FAITH.

noetic2:

** yawns ** I have heard this meaningless tales over a million times. 

Why cant the rotation of the earth be the basis[b] for believing that tomorrow will not come[/b]?

Did you say this to display your deranged stupidity or do you really believe in what you have written down? The rotation of the earth on its axis causes day and night it doesn't require ANY belief because it has been going on for billions of years.

do u recognise the power of ur choice?. . . . . .based on the evidence that the earth rotates. . .u choose to conclude that tomorrow will be. . . , based on that same evidence MR AAA concludes that tomorrow will NOT be.

You are a pathetic FOOL. I do not chose to conclude the earth rotates on its axis and that causes day and night my conclusion has nothing to do with that fact.

What u have both exercised is called FAITH.

The earth rotates on its axis and it has nothing to do with what I believe. Did you just come here to display your stupidity or do you really believe in the nonsense you have written above?

davidylan:

you're being a decietful hypocrite simply dancing around with words. Do you merely "regard" tomorrow as "likely" to happen? 

I'm not a hypocrite.
And yes, i regard tomorrow as LIKELY to happen based on my experience.

Is a "natural expectation based on experience" an empirical piece of EVIDENCE that tomorrow will exist?

No it's not.

toneyb:



Did you say this to display your deranged stupidity or do you really believe in what you have written down? The rotation of the earth on its axis causes day and night it doesn't require ANY belief because it has been going on for billions of years.

You are a pathetic FOOL. I do not chose to conclude the earth rotates on its axis and that causes day and night my conclusion has nothing to do with that fact.

The earth rotates on its axis and it has nothing to do with what I believe. Did you just come here to display your stupidity or do you really believe in the nonsense you have written above?

what is this clown saying?

did u say anything to disprove the fact that all u have is called FAITH that there would be a tomorrow?

One way to quickly settle this is for Davidlyan or Noetic to tell us one supernatural thing that will happen tomorow or a particular date to upset the natural order.

Example like Elijah calling down fire from the skyto consume maybe a sacrifice or even Tudor,
or for us to see someone walking on water with our eyes(not skiing),
or let us witness a verified amputee's limb grow back after a prayer session
or a rope without end to suddenly appear between the earth and heaven
or Noetic calling on the sun(and moon?) to stand still for all the world to see(this happens in some parts of the earth for months)

. if anything like that can happen, i believe it will forever shut up Tudor, Mazaje, Tony and co.

This in my opinion will be the only incontovertible evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt