EyeHateGod:

This doesn't change the fact that Yahweh gave steps on how slaves should be handled... The good Question would be does that sound like a "GOD" to you though am still wondering whose mind is actually Twisted...

The religious folks are now to me, herd of mere court jesters.

*Call them out to make nonsensical sounds and gibberish, they're gonna do it.

*tell them to start shaking like tilapia out of water and to start talking to themselves, they will do it.

*in this recession, tell them to give their savings, so that Jewish doG can double the money, they will do it.

I simply catch my fun this days, with their court jesting.

randomperson:

Yh... Others are reading and they will read where u implied that slavery is not wrong. What they won't read however is your answer to the question why god forbade eating shellfish but not slavery.... Because u failed to answer...
Oh, lest I forget, they would also read where u said if marriage is right, then being single is wrong

You are just happy to argue, not to reason if you actually read what I've been writing to you, understand it and this is all you have to come up with.

chrmn1:


.
That it was not expressly stated in the Bible where God told Abraham to stop slavery is not enough proof that God never dealt with him in that area just like there was no place where God expressly stated that he should no longer indulge in Idol worship. God said to Abraham, 'walk before Me and be thou perfect' and that instruction clearly shows that there were areas in Abraham's life were he had not yielded to God's perfect will. Okay you say God should prohibit slavery. I showed you a passage the other day of a scenario where a slave would prefer to remain one than be free. So should God override the will of that slave? Additionally I pointed to you that slaves were usually prisoners of war and it wouldn't make sense to conquer a rival nation and allow them regroup and launch a revenge attack. Why would God make a regulation against this?
Now those guys that were handed to Abraham by abimelech, what was the proper/sensible thing Abraham ought to have done? Refuse to have them so they would continue to lavish in a system where there was no iota of the fear of God so that they would continue to be slaves anyway? Now Abraham acquired people to work for him and even though you could tag them 'slaves', the way they were treated was much much dignifying than a common slave. Genesis 14:14 reads as follows: "And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan." They were what you will call slaves but they were 'trained'. Military might in those days was quite similar to education in this day and age. It says 'his trained servants'. It was one of those so-called slaves in his house he asked to go assist hi find a wife for his son and put him in charge of all he had. "And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh" (Genesis 24:2). It was one of those so-called slaves he was going to hand over all his substance to if God did not heed his prayer for a son (not another relative of his). Genesis 15:1-3 "Some time later, the Lord spoke to Abram in a vision and said to him, “Do not be afraid, Abram, for I will protect you, and your reward will be great. But Abram replied, “O Sovereign Lord, what good are all your blessings when I don’t even have a son? Since you’ve given me no children, Eliezer of Damascus, a servant in my household, will inherit all my wealth. You have given me no descendants of my own, so one of my servants will be my heir.”"
Now the same way God would not forbid the Israelites from enslaving the nation's around them because of inherent dangers associated with not doing so, He would not mind a situation where foreigners are bought over, implying depletion of the foreign armies that would definitely stand in the way of His people and enslave them if the slightest opportunity presented itself, whilst improving the standard of the lives of the so called slaves.

Now that word in 1 Timothy 1:10 is 'andrapodistais' and it was derived from the root word 'andrapodon' which means 'a slave' so I'm convinced that 'enslaver' is the more appropriate word compared to 'kidnapper'

The mere fact that God didn't address the issue shows implied acceptance. Abraham stopped idol worship but didn't stop buying humans as merchandize and God didn't tell him to stop... If God told him, be would have stopped.
And when abimelech gave him slaves he could have set them free if need felt it was wrong to regard human as property.
And plss, how many people will freely become slaves?? Most slaves were captured victims of war and were sold against their will.
And there is a difference between servants and slaves. Servants are like employees, slaves are merchandize bought and sold the same way we sell condom and garri. In fact, Hagar was another slave. When Sarah couldn't give birth, she told Abraham to sleep with her. That was rape because there was no consent.
That a word is derived fun another word doesn't necessarily make them similar. For example, converse and conversion

4everGod:


My position has been made clear on this thread and try as you would to twist that, it wouldnt alter the fact that you lot simply have this overwhelming need to be right but does that make you right? It actually makes you twisted like the one whose defense you jumped to. Even outside NL he is a sad lonely fellow that Akingbade character.

When you have to answer the same questions several times in different ways and they keep asking all over again... you wonder if atheism puts a cap on how far people can reason and grasp thoughts.
Understanding the perspective of someone else is different from agreeing with it but when they don't even understand.. that's the problem.

PDBonline:

You are just happy to argue, not to reason if you actually read what I've been writing to you, understand it and this is all you have to come up with.

Am only repeating what u said... In an attempt to justify slavery, u said nothing is really right or wrong... That was the gamut of your argument... Or is slavery wrong to you??

4everGod:


My position has been made clear on this thread and try as you would to twist that

Twist what?

it wouldnt alter the fact that you lot simply have this overwhelming need to be right but does that make you right? It actually makes you twisted like the one whose defense you jumped to. Even outside NL he is a sad lonely fellow that Akingbade character.

And you know this how?

PDBonline:


When you have to answer the same questions several times in different ways and they keep asking all over again... you wonder if atheism puts a cap on how far people can reason and grasp thoughts.
Understanding the perspective of someone else is different from agreeing with it but when they don't even understand.. that's the problem.

When you have to forget all morality in an attempt to justify a good God's action, and u have to make statements like nothing is right or wrong, u wonder if Christianity actually make people better or worse

4everGod:


My position has been made clear on this thread and try as you would to twist that, it wouldnt alter the fact that you lot simply have this overwhelming need to be right but does that make you right? It actually makes you twisted like the one whose defense you jumped to. Even outside NL he is a sad lonely fellow that Akingbade character.

When a friend (Catholic Church member) was trying to comprehend a life without god, she started wondering-

* how it will be like not to pray,

* what to call out to fight imaginary enemies

*something to call when in danger of arm robbery, car accident, when threatened by witch doctor etc

This is the life of delusion that you religious folks, are morbidly afraid to abandon.

You guys are afraid of loneliness(life without your imaginary doG, nazarene and ghost).

I had been in the religious realm. It's a world full of foolish and dumb assumptions. You're not an exception.

PDBonline:


When you have to answer the same questions several times in different ways and they keep asking all over again... you wonder if atheism puts a cap on how far people can reason and grasp thoughts.
Understanding the perspective of someone else is different from agreeing with it but when they don't even understand.. that's the problem.

I would say this again to my understanding non of you have given a Reasonable answer..

akintom:



When a friend (Catholic Church member) was trying to comprehend a life without god, she started wondering-

* how it will be like not to pray,

* what to call out to fight imaginary enemies

*something to call when in danger of arm robbery, car accident, when threatened by witch doctor etc

This is the life of delusion that you religious folks, are morbidly afraid to abandon.

You guys are afraid of loneliness(life without your imaginary doG, nazarene and ghost).

I had been in the religious realm. It's a world full of foolish and dumb assumptions. You're not an exception.

He is not an exception?? C'mon, he is a living conclusive proof

dankol:


seriously.. i salute your courage to speakout. i am really impressed cos, you have clearly proved that some persons can still actually do some logical reasoning ans still choose to be a christian and that i sure respect. Pastor Logic.. Thumbs up sir

There are good and open minded Christians after all...

PDBonline:


When you have to answer the same questions several times in different ways and they keep asking all over again... you wonder if atheism puts a cap on how far people can reason and grasp thoughts.
Understanding the perspective of someone else is different from agreeing with it but when they don't even understand.. that's the problem.

Sorry, you are simply talking to the wrong folks.

Perhaps your co travelers will be able to accept the claim, that a Jewish doG created them and that it's in control of their lives.

EyeHateGod:

There is a Difference between imprisonment and slavery and am sure you know that so please don't bring that bullshit in here...

I didn't know you came here to fight. If you can't discuss intelligently without bringing in emotions and using abusive words you don't have to participate in such discussions.

But if you are ready to discuss intelligently, please tell me under what circumstances are people enslaved (the ones the Bible talks about) and how people are not imprisoned under the same circumstances. Do people usually go to prison intentionally or is it usually against their will? Are people captured during war situations imprisoned? etc

You don't have to answer if you are more driven by anger than by reason.

4everGod:


I have told you before and will do so again. You will born yourself out with these hormone raging lot. All they want is to be right...even when they are wrong they would never admit to it as all its about to them is to win an argument and then jump on that to dance and chant that they have ridiculed God!

The moment they embraced atheism everyone became stupid and a dumdum in their eyes and only they are right and intelligent.

Spell truth out to them in capital letters and you would still be wrong in their eyes. Nothing you write is being read with understanding for truth...they are simply reading it and looking for either errors in what you wrote or little loopholes they can latch on to.

I have seen this play out too many times. I can be patient with them when its absolutely necessary but learn to pick your battles. Drop the truth and end it there. It will surely speak later if not to them but to another intelligent reader who truly seeks truth.

This is an avenue for a lot of them to vent since they cannot do so at home while under their parents roof so they have pent up anger and bitterness which is why curses and vitriol are always at the tip of their tongue and this is why i started off by describing them as raging hormonal people.

Wisdom is profitable to direct! You cannot win in their world and in their minds. You are already wrong even before you began. God is already wrong even before they opened the thread.


#saveyourstrenght!

Atheism has as its part mission, to exhaust religious mindsets, to the point of break. So that rational sense can take over.

akintom:


Atheism has as its part mission, to exhaust religious mindsets, to the point of break. So that rational sense can take over.

Don't mind the guy... Anytime a verse in the bible says something that I'd considered wrong, they start to use things not in the bible... If the bible says 1+1=3, u'll hear something like the bible doesn't really mean 3, sometimes 3 can mean 3-1, therefore the bible actually meant 3-1.... They work from an assumption of correctness backwards

PDBonline:

I didn't know you came here to fight. If you can't discuss intelligently without bringing in emotions and using abusive words you don't have to participate in such discussions.

Can you please point to me where the insult is in that post I'll be waiting while you do that..

But if you are ready to discuss intelligently, please tell me under what circumstances are people enslaved (the ones the Bible talks about) and how people are not imprisoned under the same circumstances. Do people usually go to prison intentionally or is it usually against their will? Are people captured during war situations imprisoned? etc

People Go to prison because of the crime they committed slaves are being bought or it might be voluntary slaves don't commit crime! Before becoming slaves so i don't see why you related the two together... Pls you should also do well to explain why you related them together...

You don't have to answer if you are more driven by anger than by reason.

I am not driven by Anger i am more driven by the dishonesty am seeing from this thread shikena...

randomperson:

Don't mind the guy... Anytime a verse in the bible says something that I'd considered wrong, they start to use things not in the bible... If the bible says 1+1=3, u'll hear something like the bible doesn't really mean 3, sometimes 3 can mean 3-1, therefore the bible actually meant 3-1.... They work from an assumption of correctness backwards

Na 4evergod and princessebuka style be this na but the first guy na king

randomperson:

When you have to forget all morality in an attempt to justify a good God's action, and u have to make statements like nothing is right or wrong, u wonder if Christianity actually make people better or worse

Please stop quoting me. You seems to find it difficult to understand statements. When did I say nothing is right or wrong? Is that what you wanted me to say so you can have a reason to show anger cause I don't get you.

God freed The Israelites from Slavery in Egypt. Jesus told the Rich and Wealthy man to free his Slaves to enable him make Heaven. The Law about loving your neighbours like yourself and Jesus' commandment to us to love ourselves as He loves us are all about freedom from slavery. May God bless you with proper Understanding. Amen.

randomperson:

The mere fact that God didn't address the issue shows implied acceptance. Abraham stopped idol worship but didn't stop buying humans as merchandize and God didn't tell him to stop... If God told him, be would have stopped.
And when abimelech gave him slaves he could have set them free if need felt it was wrong to regard human as property.
And plss, how many people will freely become slaves?? Most slaves were captured victims of war and were sold against their will.
And there is a difference between servants and slaves. Servants are like employees, slaves are merchandize bought and sold the same way we sell condom and garri. In fact, Hagar was another slave. When Sarah couldn't give birth, she told Abraham to sleep with her. That was rape because there was no consent.
That a word is derived fun another word doesn't necessarily make them similar. For example, converse and conversion

Yes he could have set them free but remember they would still need to pay their bills and if he just gave them money to start up something, did they have the required expertise to manage the funds? That scripture that talks about slaves requesting to remain slaves rather than being free, I didn't make it up. It was a valid proposition at the time. I cannot tell you how many people would voluntarily accept to be slaves because the Bible didn't mention that. Similarly, you cannot state how many they were. Now the scriptures that show slaves/servants as dignified human beings, you say those are servants whilst the ones that don't portray them as such you say they are slaves even when both words are used interchangeably through out the OT further indicating that the idea of slavery you have is not exactly what was practiced. For a slave to have hope of becoming one of his master's generals indicates that the 'slavery' was not what you would have wanted it to be. That act by Abraham on Hagar, do you realize that God did not sanction it, it was a desperate move from Abraham's wife. I'm waiting for your proof that kidnapping is the more appropriate word because at least I gave you a few. For every example of 'converse' vis a vis 'conversion' there are 10 more examples of 'converse' vis a vis 'conversation' type words. Many thanks.

orunto27:
God freed The Israelites from Slavery in Egypt. Jesus told the Rich and Wealthy man to free his Slaves to enable him make Heaven. The Law about loving your neighbours like yourself and Jesus' commandment to us to love ourselves as He loves us are all about freedom from slavery. May God bless you with proper Understanding. Amen.

God freed the Israelites from slavery but told them can purchase their own slaves?? That double standards

chrmn1:

Yes he could have set them free but remember they would still need to pay their bills and if he just gave them money to start up something, did they have the required expertise to manage the funds? That scripture that talks about slaves requesting to remain slaves rather than being free, I didn't make it up. It was a valid proposition at the time. I cannot tell you how many people would voluntarily accept to be slaves because the Bible didn't mention that. Similarly, you cannot state how many they were. Now the scriptures that show slaves/servants as dignified human beings, you say those are servants whilst the ones that don't portray them as such you say they are slaves even when both words are used interchangeably through out the OT further indicating that the idea of slavery you have is not exactly what was practiced. For a slave to have hope of becoming one of his master's generals indicates that the 'slavery' was not what you would have wanted it to be. That act by Abraham on Hagar, do you realize that God did not sanction it, it was a desperate move from Abraham's wife. I'm waiting for your proof that kidnapping is the more appropriate word because at least I gave you a few. For every example of 'converse' vis a vis 'conversion' there are 10 more examples of 'converse' vis a vis 'conversation' type words. Many thanks.

He could have given them small change and they would have become farmers or something... He kept them as slaves... Slave are unpaid laborers, no wages only feeding. That's the difference between slaves and servants.
I can tell that no one will want to be treated as merchandize so not many people will want to be slaves. At that time, there were a lot of wars and the captured prisoners of war usually became slaves... Slaves had no right. They could be sold, beaten even killed.
God did not sanction the rape of Hagar but he did not condemn it either... In fact he blessed the child that came forth from the rape. When David had sex with Beersheba, god condemned the act by punishing him so god keeping quiet about Abraham's rape of Hagar is at the very least tacit acquiescence.
If most of the versions use the word kidnappers and it's equivalent, it's likely that the higher number of versions are correct

PDBonline:

I didn't know you came here to fight. If you can't discuss intelligently without bringing in emotions and using abusive words you don't have to participate in such discussions.

But if you are ready to discuss intelligently, please tell me under what circumstances are people enslaved (the ones the Bible talks about) and how people are not imprisoned under the same circumstances. Do people usually go to prison intentionally or is it usually against their will? Are people captured during war situations imprisoned? etc

You don't have to answer if you are more driven by anger than by reason.

Imprisoning people for the crimes they committed is not wrong but imprisoning innocent people is wrong... Imprisonment can be right or wrong depending on the s circumstances. Slavery, however is always wrong. It's wrong to buy people as merchandize and to use them as labourers with that paying them... That is slavery. Do u think it's right?? I would like to know

People Go to prison because of the crime they committed slaves are being bought or it might be voluntary slaves don't commit crime! Before becoming slaves so i don't see why you related the two together... Pls you should also do well to explain why you related them together...

The Bible states how slaves should treat their masters with respect and how masters should not even threaten their slaves but give them what is just and fair (Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 4:1). That's definitely not the kind relationship you and the rest have in your minds when you say "slavery" or is it?

The concept of slavery is not a moral issue. God determines what is right or wrong and He doesn't forbid slavery, He indeed allows it(now I didn't say He commanded it.) especially when voluntary and He also allows for freedom too.
God didn't have to forbid slavery because there is no need for that if people will be kind to their slaves and if slaves can gain freedom.

Slavery and Imprisonment

1. Both are USUALLY against people's will. Perpetrated by those more powerful than them.

People end up in prison because they committed crimes? Yes. But must criminals be imprisoned? What about people who are thrown to jail because the government in power does not like them or is threatened by there freedom? What about "prisoners of war"?

2. There are circumstances where both slavery and imprisonment are by choice and circumstances when they are preferred to other options.

In fact there are situations when a slave is better than a prisoner, especially when they have masters who treat them like the Bible says. They have access to the resources of their masters (good food, good shelter etc), the marry, fulfill sexual gratification and have children. Most prisoners have their lives come to a halt. Again, this is not how God wants it. This is man's careless invention- because a man should always be given a chance to become better and improve his or her life as long as he lives.

3. Both MAY involve forced labour and inhuman treatment.

4. Both have possibility of freedom

5. Both may be the result wickedness or kindness, injustice or justice for example during war situations

6. Both can bring positive changes AS JUDGED BY THE "VICTIM'S" EXPERIENCE not the society.

7. Both can actually be one experience: an imprisoned slave.

8. God doesn't forbid any of them. In fact, He allows both. But God teaches us to love all humans- slave or free, prisoner or free

randomperson:

He could have given them small change and they would have become farmers or something... He kept them as slaves... Slave are unpaid laborers, no wages only feeding. That's the difference between slaves and servants.
I can tell that no one will want to be treated as merchandize so not many people will want to be slaves. At that time, there were a lot of wars and the captured prisoners of war usually became slaves... Slaves had no right. They could be sold, beaten even killed.
God did not sanction the rape of Hagar but he did not condemn it either... In fact he blessed the child that came forth from the rape. When David had sex with Beersheba, god condemned the act by punishing him so god keeping quiet about Abraham's rape of Hagar is at the very least tacit acquiescence.
If most of the versions use the word kidnappers and it's equivalent, it's likely that the higher number of versions are correct

Or he used the opportunity to make their lives better. Now does it make sense for a slave to be given the opportunity to be free and yet that slave prefers to continue in enslavement? Does it make sense? No it doesn't. But as I showed you that situation existed. Does that tell you something about this kind of slavery? Now forget semantics. If 'Jane' just came from the village and was given two options: 1) come and do a job as an house girl whilst you go to school; 2) take N100,000.00, go and start your life somewhere. Whilst you can call Jane a house girl in 1) above and call her a business woman in 2) above, I know the option I'd rather that Jane takes given that she has little experience in managing a business. So you've got to look beyond the tag. You say no one wants to be treated as slaves but that passage about a slave wanting to remain one showed that it was a valid proposition even though you say 'no one wants to....'
Please show me where it's clearly stated that the slaves were unpaid laborers and that they received no wages, that it was only feeding they were entitled to.

I noticed that you usually make a wrong assumption. If you didn't see it stated like A,B,C, you assume that something was not there. The deed was done in Genesis 16 when Abraham was 86. Fast forward to Genesis 17 when Abraham was 99. That's good 13 years. What was the first thing He said to him? "Walk though before Me and be thought blameless" clearly showing that that conversation was off the back of a not pleasant act from Abraham. Why the 13 years silence?

If a slave bought with money can have the opportunity to be a commander, then maybe it's not the slavery you'd love it to be

Nice thread. These christian apologists are pathetic and potentially dangerous. Always supporting barbaric inhuman acts in the bible no matter how severe. Yahweh must be pleased at all cost.

randomperson:

Imprisoning people for the crimes they committed is not wrong but imprisoning innocent people is wrong... Imprisonment can be right or wrong depending on the s circumstances. Slavery, however is always wrong. It's wrong to buy people as merchandize and to use them as labourers with that paying them... That is slavery. Do u think it's right?? I would like to know

So where did you get your idea of right and wrong? And what is your proof that your source is reliable?

randomperson:

The mere fact that God didn't address the issue shows implied acceptance. Abraham stopped idol worship but didn't stop buying humans as merchandize and God didn't tell him to stop... If God told him, be would have stopped.
And when abimelech gave him slaves he could have set them free if need felt it was wrong to regard human as property.
And plss, how many people will freely become slaves?? Most slaves were captured victims of war and were sold against their will.
And there is a difference between servants and slaves. Servants are like employees, slaves are merchandize bought and sold the same way we sell condom and garri. In fact, Hagar was another slave. When Sarah couldn't give birth, she told Abraham to sleep with her. That was rape because there was no consent.
That a word is derived fun another word doesn't necessarily make them similar. For example, converse and conversion

"Bond servant" equals slaves. When you say "Human RESOURCES" that is what you are saying. "Hired servants" equals paid employees(they shouldn't be called resources because they are rather partners). Both are servants or employees.

* You've not answered my question on your objective source of what is right and what is wrong since you've used the term passionately all these while.

dankol:


seriously.. i salute your courage to speakout. i am really impressed cos, you have clearly proved that some persons can still actually do some logical reasoning ans still choose to be a christian and that i sure respect. Pastor Logic.. Thumbs up sir

the bible is an open field for everyone of us if you choose to be fool so be it but if choose other wise then you know the type of evil perpetrated by so called God chosen ones, using God name to wreck havoc.

PDBonline:


The Bible states how slaves should treat their masters with respect and how masters should not even threaten their slaves but give them what is just and fair (Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 4:1). That's definitely not the kind relationship you and the rest have in your minds when you say "slavery" or is it?

WTF? You are now cherry picking? What of the ones in OT or do i have to Quote them out?... And Ephesian 5 wasn't talking about slaves it was talking about servent again their is a difference your house maid is not your slave...

Again colossian is also talking about servent and not slaves the op is talking about slaves we talking about wips here...

The concept of slavery is not a moral issue. God determines what is right or wrong and He doesn't forbid slavery, He indeed allows it(now I didn't say He commanded it.) especially when voluntary and He also allows for freedom too.
God didn't have to forbid slavery because there is no need for that if people will be kind to their slaves and if slaves can gain freedom.

What do you mean Yahweh didn't command slavery?

Slavery and Imprisonment

1. Both are USUALLY against people's will. Perpetrated by those more powerful than them.

People end up in prison because they committed crimes? Yes. But must criminals be imprisoned? What about people who are thrown to jail because the government in power does not like them or is threatened by there freedom? What about "prisoners of war"?

2. There are circumstances where both slavery and imprisonment are by choice and circumstances when they are preferred to other options.

In fact there are situations when a slave is better than a prisoner, especially when they have masters who treat them like the Bible says. They have access to the resources of their masters (good food, good shelter etc), the marry, fulfill sexual gratification and have children. Most prisoners have their lives come to a halt. Again, this is not how God wants it. This is man's careless invention- because a man should always be given a chance to become better and improve his or her life as long as he lives.

3. Both MAY involve forced labour and inhuman treatment.

4. Both have possibility of freedom

5. Both may be the result wickedness or kindness, injustice or justice for example during war situations

6. Both can bring positive changes AS JUDGED BY THE "VICTIM'S" EXPERIENCE not the society.

7. Both can actually be one experience: an imprisoned slave.

8. God doesn't forbid any of them. In fact, He allows both. But God teaches us to love all humans- slave or free, prisoner or free

It all boiled down to the fact that One derseves it and the other doesn't now there is an exception for the first that's if he didn't comite crime still stop comparing slavery to Imprisonment it doesn't make sense