It is one thing to argue, exchange ideas and have fun, and it is another thing altogether to go out of your way to be nasty. It is an onerous responsibilty to represent God, and we must not misrepresent him. There must be a clear distinction between when we do our "human" things like being foul-mouthed and abusive, etc, and when we purport to represent God to others.

God does not take kindly to his character being misrepresented by his anointed representatives. Ask Moses.

@all,

Many thanks for pointing out the heat of my passion. As trini_girl has pointed out, any true former Muslim who has spent her days groping in darkness and has now come to see the light in Jesus Christ will be radically opposed to what held her previously bound. What I really don't appreciate is the lies, lies, and more lies that people will use to cover up the obvious, dubious career of Muhammad. The so-called tolerance many ask Christians to exude does not exist anywhere in Islamic culture - and even on this forum, it shows.

Grouppoint & Genial, my sincere apologies if in the course of being ministered to, you found some of my rejoinders to Muslims a bit skewed. In that regard, while reassuring you that I have no joy in seeing them wallow in the dark, I think gbade.x really understood me, as I've severally explained elsewhere that I'm not xenophobic towards Muslims. Rather, my angst is against Islam itself and I'm not apologetic about that.

I'm a rational being able to appreciate people and welcome good sense. But when someone pedantically presents himself as a retard and hopes to get away with his R-IQ at being abusive to any and everyone, shahan will take no nonsense from such and ask them to kindly scurry back to their holes.

There are other Muslims on the Forum who have enough sense to be people; and I've severally shown my appreciation to them. When this JJC of Ibadan is ready to evolve to the status of homosapiens, he'll find me a very pleasant discussant on any issue. If he chooses otherwise, he should expect to meet with someone whose IQ he can't match in any decade.

I've not stopped praying for him regardless of his so-called "curses"; and at the same time want to register my thanks to you all for your grace and concern.

Many blessings.  

Thank you, Shahan. Coincidentally, I always thought you were quite careful with your utterances. Please do keep it up. The one who rules her spirit is better than the one who takes a city. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

Too many pastors and teachers in here!

@Genial, many thanks and God's blessings.

Lol, @mrpataki. . .

@shahan,

I've immensely enjoyed your expositions on this subject, and all I can say is that God will bless you tremendously. I hope you can have time to fill us up some more. Well done again.

babaearly:

the Pre-Jesus was Michael the Archangel!

what

@Post

Jesus was and still is God.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was and is God the Son who had to become the Son of Man so as to make man become the sons of God.

See the link below for detailed information that will help us to understand better and compliment what shahan et al has been saying.

http://www.dclm.org/Default.aspx?tabid=128

@ Shahan.

May you continue to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, to him be the Glory for now and eternity. Amen.(2Peter 3:18)

@ Fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus,

sister shahan has said it all, the only thing I could add is Php.2 : 5 - 6(a) Your attitude should be the same of that of Christ Jesus: (6) [/b][/color]Who, being in every nature, GOD.


[color=#006600]Lord Jesus is not 50% God, 50% man but fully 100% GOD(in nature) and 100% man(in flesh). Remember he did every things we human do including wept for Lazarus(John 11:35) death. Not that he didn't knows that he(Jesus, 100% God in nature) will rise him from the dead, but to show his 100% in flesh as a man. Again, before he was crucified Jesus 100%man asked if it is possible for the father to take the cup away(just like any man will ask of his father), but Jesus 100% God know thy will of the father will be accomplished.
This is not to confuse anyone, The Lord is not double personality but to illustrate what [b][color=#006600]John 1:1 said.

@ Topic

Jesus Christ was GOD (not the Father but the son in his full father Glory) not a man nor angels.

peace be unto you !

Qc-1:

Lord Jesus is not 50% God, 50% man but fully 100% GOD(in nature) and 100% man(in flesh).

I just especially liked that distinction you made. Bless. 

@ islampride,

on the contrary, jesus has no beginning and no end.

If God is jesus' father, who is his mother? And are there other beings like God.

Just imagine other Gods with their own planets and their own version of jesus.
Jesus my ass yo.

Besides Joseph was a Jackass, your wife comes up pregnant and tells you it's the "holy spirit" and you believe her, I guess I'll go knock up some pastor's daughter and blame it on the holy spirit.
What was Jesusdoing between the age of 12 and 30 anyway. Probably getting high , nigga got so stoned he thought he was some messiah.
Gotta give it up though, his story is the greatest storyfable ever told.

@ Dios

My LORD JESUS once said A doctor do come for the healthy rather for those who are sick. I don't judge you with those comment you just make. No matter what you did or said I know the JESUS STILL LOVES YOU bro'!

Rev. 3 :30
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

You sound like smart individual to me. You may want to think about the above verse, better yet , pick a Bible.

@ Qc-1, frankly your lord can kiss my black ass.

Dios one last question, what's time on your PC?

Jesus Christ once declared in the Holy Bible that "Before Abraham was, I AM". At the burning bush when the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses, God told him, "I Am Who I AM. He, Jesus Christ has always been with the Father, so that being said, Jesus Christ is GOD!

According to my understanding I believe that Jesus Christ, had existed as the word of God, before he took the human form. The gospel according to John makes it clear, John the author was among the closest disciples to Jesus Christ, so he's declaration of Jesus as the word of God should be highly considered. The Word of God is an active force of God's very action, It is the only way that can prove Jesus Christ and God inseparable, I dent want to believe that Jesus was just another guy in heaven, He's the word, made flesh, and died for we sinners that we might be saved, resurrected and ascended to the father to sit on the right hand of God's throne, Thats how I see it.

@All Christians: Before Abraham on earth, I Olabowale and all sons and daughters of Adam were, in our spiritual form. Our souls were taking at the same time from the back of Adam. This means all the souls of all who came from Adam, in body and soul. This included Jesus, the one who you guys are so naive about his saying. And unfortunately, you are giving it your own spin, so that you can further a fakery of the legend.

In that statement, so that you hear me well, before Jesus on earth, i olabowale was in heavy! Now chew on that. There is no God save All/ah! And Jesus is not it. The holy spirit is not it. God Almighty stands alone, in His Majesty, Awesomeness. Jesus was a mere Creation. So is the holy spirit.

Just for the truth of it: Did Jesus, aka holy spirit, as a ghost make his mother pregnant, with him? Think people.

Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM"


John 8:58 Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am"

@Imhotep: You did not see my entry about my existence before Abraham and Jesus, right?

But it is interesting to know that Jesus never said that before Adam he was! The reason was that as a prophet and messengr of his Lord, Jesus knew that he was a product from Adam. And a word to indicate that he existed before Adam would have been incorrect. Chew on that now.

@Imhotep:

Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM"


John 8:58 Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am"

How do you connect these two verses? Big time tall tale teller, you! I wanna read your connect the dot acts of these two verses! Am waiting.

olabowale:

@Imhotep: You did not see my entry about my existence before Abraham and Jesus, right?

But it is interesting to know that Jesus never said that before Adam he was! The reason was that as a prophet and messengr of his Lord, Jesus knew that he was a product from Adam. And a word to indicate that he existed before Adam would have been incorrect. Chew on that now.

The Jews He was talking to knew EXACTLY what He meant, and they wanted to stone Him.

John8:58-59:

58   Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

59  So they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

He was practically telling them "I Am Yahweh". And they were pissed.

olabowale:
How do you connect these two verses? Big time tall tale teller, you! I want to read your connect the dot acts of these two verses! Am waiting

I suggest you read the book of Exodus, chapter 3


Exodus3:14 ==>
Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you."

@Imhotep;

The Jews He was talking to knew EXACTLY what He meant, and they wanted to stone Him.

They wanted to stone your god? What did your do? Duck his head? kept away grom the street so that they dfon't catch him? ran away to Egypt, trying to save his own hide? All of the above? Is any of these quality of the Creator? Running away from creations?

Quote from: John8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

59 So they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

I have to laugh at you, because you worship thing that run/hid away from ordinary mob of men! But I am before Abraham. Let me repeat, before Abraham was, I Olabowale (was as a soul)! I guess Jesus is like me, creations of God Almighty!

But there was a time that Muha/mmad hid himself from the Makkans in Makka. When they were after him, Al/lah revealed Verse 9 of Surah Yasiin. He walked between them and they were unable to see him. When he was on the way in Hijra to Madina, he and Abu Bakr (ra), were shielded in a cave by God from enemies eager to overtake them. So the nemies were confounded.

And Surakat, who was the lead spy against him from the Makkans so that he could give them his movement rode an animal that was uncooperative. His horse was sinking in the sand, and by this he became a muslim before he died.

He was practically telling them "I Am Yahweh". And they were pissed.

You must have had a weak Yahweh. Or maybe a fake Yahweh, since he was hiding himself from the killer mob after him! I guess the real yahweh will not be hiding, because He will show His might. Thats the difference between real and fake. Anyone could have called himself or some demented packs of admirers could call anyone yahwwh. I think the latter is at play in the Bible and people are attaching it to the innocent man. They think that they are elevating him. All they are dping is creating their own avenue of destruction!

A Yahweh that would not truly be a Yahweh, is the Yahweh that is mouthy but has nothing behind it so hiding is a good tactics for saving face. Avoiding been skinned alive! So the "I am Yahweh" was said in vain, just like Pharaoh boasted about his being god of Egypt and the nile flowed by his power! I wonder why the people say Aleiluyah, instead Yahwehyah or yahyahweh? That shows that yahweh could not truly be the proper name of the Creator! Afterall Eloi is what is written. And it is synonemous to All/ah and has no connection, whatsoever with yahweh, etc!

I suggest you read the book of Exodus, chapter 3


Exodus3:14 ==>
Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you."

I hope you knowthat when an entity says that he is sent, it means tht his Boss is the sender and he is the servant/slave. I AM (God Almighty Creator) "send" me (Jesus the prophet, messiah, son of man) to you (the Jewish people/children of Israel)! I hope you get it. Maybe when I get to Nigeria, I should send my nephew to you. That will make you get it.

olabowale:

@Imhotep; They wanted to stone your god? What did your do? Duck his head? kept away grom the street so that they dfon't catch him? ran away to Egypt, trying to save his own hide? All of the above? Is any of these quality of the Creator? Running away from creations?

I have to laugh at you, because you worship thing that run/hid away from ordinary mob of men! But I am before Abraham. Let me repeat, before Abraham was, I Olabowale (was as a soul)! I guess Jesus is like me, creations of God Almighty!

I AM is a long long long way from "I was".

olabowale:

But there was a time that Muha/mmad hid himself from the Makkans in Makka. When they were after him, Al/lah revealed Verse 9 of Surah Yasiin. He walked between them and they were unable to see him. When he was on the way in Hijra to Madina, he and Abu Bakr (ra), were shielded in a cave by God from enemies eager to overtake them. So the nemies were confounded.

And Surakat, who was the lead spy against him from the Makkans so that he could give them his movement rode an animal that was uncooperative. His horse was sinking in the sand, and by this he became a a great one before he died.

Muha/mmad still had to die. Was All@h too weak to stop him from dying
His tomb is somewhere here =>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masjid_al-Nabawi . Not so?

olabowale:

You must have had a weak Yahweh. Or maybe a fake Yahweh, since he was hiding himself from the killer mob after him! I guess the real yahweh will not be hiding, because He will show His might. Thats the difference between real and fake. Anyone could have called himself or some demented packs of admirers could call anyone yahwwh. I think the latter is at play in the Bible and people are attaching it to the innocent man. They think that they are elevating him. All they are dping is creating their own avenue of destruction!

This 'weak' Yahweh is followed by all the Christians over the world. This 'weak' Yahweh is also revealed and revered in Isl@m and other world religions.

olabowale:

A Yahweh that would not truly be a Yahweh, is the Yahweh that is mouthy but has nothing behind it so hiding is a good tactics for saving face. Avoiding been skinned alive! So the "I am Yahweh" was said in vain, just like Pharaoh boasted about his being god of Egypt and the nile flowed by his power! I wonder why the people say Aleiluyah, instead Yahwehyah or yahyahweh? That shows that yahweh could not truly be the proper name of the Creator! Afterall Eloi is what is written. And it is synonemous to All/ah and has no connection, whatsoever with yahweh, etc!

I notice that M-uslims are in the habit of telling God what to do and how to react. This could be the basis for the fanaticism among some of them. The suicide bombers, for instance, want to help an apparently silent God to implement His Will!

olabowale:

I hope you knowthat when an entity says that he is sent, it means that his Boss is the sender and he is the servant/slave. I AM (God Almighty Creator) "send" me (Jesus the prophet, messiah, son of man) to you (the Jewish people/children of Israel)! I hope you get it. Maybe when I get to Nigeria, I should send my nephew to you. That will make you get it.

You are now adding YOUR OWN words to the book of exodus.
Let me repeat, I suggest you read the book of Exodus, chapter 3

Exodus3:14 ==> Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM [/b]sent me to you."

[b]John8:58-59 ==> Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John5:18 ==> "For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God."

@olabowale
By the way.

I just saw this ==> "Next to Moh@mmed's tomb, there is another empty tomb that M-uslims believe awaits Jesus. "

Taken from here ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Mohammed#Death

-------
What exactly does it all mean?

@Imhotep:

I AM is a long long long way from "I was".

As I had explained, my soul was there before Abraam and or jesus on this earth. I still have the soul attached to my body, here and now. I am in NYC. Typing and doing things of the living. I am (soul of Olabowale) before Jesus! Now you get it. Think baby, think. Its good for the soul.

Muha/mmad still had to die. Was All@h too weak to stop him from dying

He had to die like every one with a soul. Thats not a problem. Every Mus/lim acknowledges it. Death is a reality of life. So that you know, my Jesus son of did not die, yet. But was lifted up into heavens. but he will come back on earth to die the proper death which applies to all creations. Now that that is settled, let me tell you a thing or two about the one that you claimed was hung on the cross; your idol that you worship, an intermediary between you and what you claim to be yur father. I wonder why a child will have an intermediary between him/her and the father? But thats beside the point, but I just want you to have it and chew on it for a moment.

Afterall, your idol was hung on the cross by a mere mob, who you said he created himself! Is this not a madness thought, and a first class joke of humanity? And the reason that Muh/ammad died is in fulfilment of the at least two verses in the AlQur/an. The first is in Surah Al Imran (chapter 3) which says all souls will taste death. The second is in (Surah AlRahman: the Merciful) which says that all faces will perish, except it will remain your Lord alone. This tells us that even Gabreil, Michael and Angel of death are all going to expire. Definately, Jesus second coming is ending with his death (the only time he will die) on earth!

But sheepishly, you did not ask yourself why your father allowed his begottened son to die? You should direct your question to your father god and his so, son god. I intentionally left ghost god out of the party. We know the ghost is more perssive than active! As a Mu/slim, I am not deluded about the condition of Mu/hammad at all; a human prophet and messenger of his Lord. So it is no surprise that he died. Why did your god, son god, 1/3 of multiple head god, 1 person of 3 persons god and son of man died? Why didn't the other 2/3rds prevented his cursed death? You will have no reasonable explanations. I am sure of that. Think man, think baby.

His tomb is somewhere here =>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masjid_al-Nabawi . Not so?

We all know where is tomb is; Madina! The question is this, when your god comes back, what will happen to him? Certainty is that Jesus will die. Please hang around for Rapture! You will be surprised. Jerry Fahwel was hanging around and he died last summer! Puuf! Every one of you will be
hanging around waiting for the phanthom to happen. Then you will wait for ever and die while still waiting

This 'weak' Yahweh is followed by all the Christians over the world. This 'weak' Yahweh is also revealed and revered in Isl@m and other world religions.

You are gullible that why you follow some weak god/idol. And by the way, I have news for you; we in I/slam do not have any yahweh! So how can we revere what we don't have. We have Al/lah, His Messengers.To me, so far you are batting 0%.

I notice that M-uslims are in the habit of telling God what to do and how to react. This could be the basis for the fanaticism among some of them. The suicide bombers, for instance, want to help an apparently silent God to implement His Will!

You sound terribly uninformed by your silly response here. If mu/slims are the slaves, and we have 100% hope in Al/lah, how is He silent when we do not even dare to change a "jot" from His Book? But you the sons and daughters who are not "slaves/servants" had the gull to change his books and the christians set up a proper intercessor/ middle man in place. So who is the one with god who is silent; the one who never change God's words and is a slave or the one who has many versions/editions/revisions of god's book and calls himself/herself the child of god, yet this person has proper father who got his/her mother pregnant? Do you now claim that your mothet is the wife of your god, sharing bed together at night? Silliness in thought and idea!

You are now adding YOUR OWN words to the book of exodus.
Let me repeat, I suggest you read the book of Exodus, chapter 3

Addition is there all along. What I am telling you is the correction. You need to understand that. Unfortunately, the addition which is false is what you believe. It will take a bit of doing to undo the do on you. lol

Exodus3:14 ==> Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you."

John8:58-59 ==> Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John5:18 ==> "For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God."

Need I say more? Stubborn, you are. Again, you sound like a broken record. maybe you are. But unfortunately you fail to realise that soul is created and alive before pregnancy and birth. So before Jesus I am. Before Abraham I am. But I am after Adam. Jesus is after Adam. Abraham is after Adam. duh!

olabowale:

@Imhotep: As I had explained, my soul was there before Abraam and or jesus on this earth. I still have the soul attached to my body, here and now. I am in NYC. Typing and doing things of the living. I am (soul of Olabowale) before Jesus! Now you get it. Think baby, think. Its good for the soul.

If all souls have always been in existence. Then NOBODY is before anybody.

olabowale:

He had to die like every one with a soul. Thats not a problem. Every Mus/lim acknowledges it. Death is a reality of life. So that you know, my Jesus son of did not die, yet. But was lifted up into heavens. but he will come back on earth to die the proper death which applies to all creations. Now that that is settled, let me tell you a thing or two about the one that you claimed was hung on the cross; your idol that you worship, an intermediary between you and what you claim to be yur father. I wonder why a child will have an intermediary between him/her and the father? But thats beside the point, but I just want you to have it and chew on it for a moment.

Afterall, your idol was hung on the cross by a mere mob, who you said he created himself! Is this not a madness thought, and a first class joke of humanity? And the reason that Muh/ammad died is in fulfilment of the at least two verses in the AlQur/an. The first is in Surah Al Imran (chapter 3) which says all souls will taste death. The second is in (Surah AlRahman: the Merciful) which says that all faces will perish, except it will remain your Lord alone. This tells us that even Gabreil, Michael and Angel of death are all going to expire. Definately, Jesus second coming is ending with his death (the only time he will die) on earth!

Now, think, who is WEAKER-> He who died and Resurrected; or he who died and is still buried in a Medina mosque??

olabowale:

But sheepishly, you did not ask yourself why your father allowed his begottened son to die? You should direct your question to your father god and his so, son god. I intentionally left ghost god out of the party. We know the ghost is more perssive than active! As a Mu/slim, I am not deluded about the condition of Mu/hammad at all; a human prophet and messenger of his Lord. So it is no surprise that he died. Why did your god, son god, 1/3 of multiple head god, 1 person of 3 persons god and son of man died? Why didn't the other 2/3rds prevented his cursed death? You will have no reasonable explanations. I am sure of that. Think man, think baby.

Once again, telling God what to do.

olabowale:

We all know where is tomb is; Madina! The question is this, when your god comes back, what will happen to him? Certainty is that Jesus will die. Please hang around for Rapture! You will be surprised. Jerry Fahwel was hanging around and he died last summer! Puuf! Every one of you will be
hanging around waiting for the phanthom to happen. Then you will wait for ever and die while still waiting

You wait and see.

olabowale:

You are gullible that why you follow some weak god/idol. And by the way, I have news for you; we in I/slam do not have any yahweh! So how can we revere what we don't have. We have Al/lah, His Messengers.To me, so far you are batting 0%.

Your messenger is in a tomb in Medina. Ours is in the highest heavens.

olabowale:

You sound terribly uninformed by your silly response here. If mu/slims are the slaves, and we have 100% hope in Al/lah, how is He silent when we do not even dare to change a "jot" from His Book? But you the sons and daughters who are not "slaves/servants" had the gull to change his books and the christians set up a proper intercessor/ middle man in place. So who is the one with god who is silent; the one who never change God's words and is a slave or the one who has many versions/editions/revisions of god's book and calls himself/herself the child of god, yet this person has proper father who got his/her mother pregnant? Do you now claim that your mothet is the wife of your god, sharing bed together at night? Silliness in thought and idea!

Telling God what to do again.

olabowale:

Addition is there all along. What I am telling you is the correction. You need to understand that. Unfortunately, the addition which is false is what you believe. It will take a bit of doing to undo the do on you. lol

Need I say more? Stubborn, you are. Again, you sound like a broken record. maybe you are. But unfortunately you fail to realise that soul is created and alive before pregnancy and birth. So before Jesus I am. Before Abraham I am. But I am after Adam. Jesus is after Adam. Abraham is after Adam. duh!

I repeat ---> If all souls have always been in existence. Then NOBODY is before anybody.

Except Adam was before everybody else. You name it, Adam was before her (Eve) and him/her (any later person onward). Afterall, he, Adam was the first created by God. All souls of his progenies was brought about through him; the souls were removed from his back!

Now I will not respond to you. This will be my last. Its final. Hopefully this statement about Adam and souls and the existence of his children, regardless who that child is will affect somebody here. The effect will be intense enough that it will wake up the dormant goodness in the person to seek the proper way to worship the Creator, Who is the Cherisher of all things; God Almighty who is One without ascendancy or desendancy. There is no God save He.