KingEbukasBlog:


We are reading totally different bibles though :

Leviticus 20:10
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife , even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife , the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's unclothedness; they shall be childless.

And the law for rape protects the woman not demean her - this has been discussed ad nauseum .

You still do not get it, this law seeks to protect the man (neighbour or "another another man" rather than the victim of the rape. This is to protect a man, the humiliation of his neighbour sleeping with his wife.



The law says a man that commits adultery with a neighbour's wife should be put to death with the adulteress, but a man that commits adultery with his brother's wife shall remain childless, meanwhile, a man that commits adultery with an unmarried woman must marry her and not put to death.
This law is even in tandem with the 10th commandment;

Exodus 20:17:
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

How does the law prevent a serial rapist from raping several single women?

wirinet:


Don't mind them (atheists), they will also claim Saudi Arabia and Iran Demeans and marginalize women when women have been elected into chancellorship and legislative positions positions in those countries recently.

They might even say that Hitler hated and murdered jews when he saved the lives of many Jews including Eduard Bloch (his personal doctor) and Ernst Hess (a commander)

I don't really understand the bolded. Could you shed more light, please?

randomperson:

U are just getting angry because your beliefs are being exposed as pure crap. Lemme ask u, is it right to stone non- virgins to death?? It's a simple yes or no question..

A. I'm not getting angry.
B. My beliefs are not being exposed as crap, rather you are painting them as crap.
C. Is it right to hang drug dealers?

Kaycee7:
I don't really understand the bolded. Could you shed more light, please?

The statement is self explanatory.
It simply agree with your argument that because there were few prophetesses and Judges in the bible, the bible could not have in anyway demean women in general. The same way Hitler saved some Jews, so he could not be accused of mass murdering Jews in general.

Kaycee7:
A. I'm not getting angry.
B. My beliefs are not being exposed as crap, rather you are painting them as crap.
C. Is it right to hang drug dealers?

Yes it's right to hang drug dealers

Kingebuka, How do you justify this Biblical law against women;

Exodus 21:2-4:
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing....If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Exodus 21:7:
"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

In effect, if you buy a male servant, he is to serve 6 years and then be allowed to go free. During the time of his slavery, his master can give him a wife, with or without the consent of the woman (probably a fellow slave), but when he leaves, his wife and children remain the property of his master.

Meanwhile, a female slave remain the property of her master forever.

Please tell me how this law protects women.

wirinet:
Kingebuka, How do you justify this Biblical law against women;



In effect, if you buy a male servant, he is to serve 6 year and then allowed to go free. During the time of his slavery, his master can give him a wife, with or without the consent of the woman (probably a fellow slave), but when he leaves, his wife and children remain the property of his master.

Meanwhile, a female slave remain the property of her master forever.

Please tell me how this law protects women.

It's obvious that these laws are not to protect the female folk. They are just what obtained in the past, where most societies were male dominated. And the women were merely seen as extension of their husband or even as properties.
That's why it's unreasonable to say the laws were given or inspired by god. Those people didn't see anything wrong with those laws, but a perfect god should have. The fact that he didn't shows that god didn't in fact give those laws but they were man made.

wirinet:


The statement is self explanatory.
It simply agree with your argument that because there were few prophetesses and Judges in the bible, the bible could not have in anyway demean women in general. The same way Hitler saved some Jews, so he could not be accused of mass murdering Jews in general.

That's just bonkers. The contexts don't match. Hitler caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of jews and the few he kept alive bcoz of their usefulness doesn't negate that.
The Bible hasn't been proven to demean women and the prophetesses and judges are examples of that fact

randomperson:

Yes it's right to hang drug dealers

Ok. Then it's right to stone virgins.

Kaycee7:
That's just bonkers. The contexts don't match. Hitler caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of jews and the few he kept alive bcoz of their usefulness doesn't negate that.
The Bible hasn't been proven to demean women and the prophetesses and judges are examples of that fact

Seriously??
All females who lose virginity before marriage should be stoned to death= Hitler kills thousands of Jews.
There are prophetesses and female judges in the bible= Hitler kept some Jews alive.
Get it now??

Kaycee7:
Ok. Then it's right to stone virgins.

So dealing in drugs and losing your virginity are equally bad, right...
Who is the victim of loss of virginity??

Women were even discriminated and demeaned in terms of their value on the slave market;

Leviticus 27:1-7
27 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, If anyone makes a special vow to the Lord involving the valuation of persons,
3 then the valuation of a male from twenty years old up to sixty years old shall be fifty shekels[a] of silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary.
4 If the person is a female, the valuation shall be thirty shekels.
5 If the person is from five years old up to twenty years old, the valuation shall be for a male twenty shekels, and for a female ten shekels.
6 If the person is from a month old up to five years old, the valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female the valuation shall be three shekels of silver.
7 And if the person is sixty years old or over, then the valuation for a male shall be fifteen shekels, and for a female ten shekels.

randomperson:

Seriously??
All females who lose virginity before marriage should be stoned to death= Hitler kills thousands of Jews.
There are prophetesses and female judges in the bible= Hitler kept some Jews alive.
Get it now??

All females who lose their virginity before marriage should be stoned to death is a law. A section of the constitution. Females had a choice. Abstain from sex before marriage or suffer the consequences.
Hitler kills thousands of jews is a statement. The jews could not help being jews. They could not have stopped being jew or change to something else.

randomperson:

So dealing in drugs and losing your virginity are equally bad, right...
Who is the victim of loss of virginity??

The man who marries the non-virgin.

randomperson:

U are just insisting on emptiness.
Firstly, I didn't even say the Jewish society demeaned women. That was the standard at that time. I said the bible demeans women. Check the principles of the bible from the old testament to the new. They all contain principles that demean women.
When Paul says women are created for men, how does the fact that there was a female judge counter that fact.
When God says rape victims should be sold to the people who raped them, how does the fact that a few women attained good heights nullify that fact. Does it change the fact that that particular law wasn't fair to women??
In the north, the female child is subject to early marriage, if a female northerner become a minister, does it change the fact the female child is unfairly treated.
U are mentioning about ten women that attained great heights, what about the thousands of rape victims that were sold to their assailants or the thousands that were stoned to death because they were not virgins.

please dont mind him..

dalaman:


We are not. If objective moral values exist that means the sharia is Objective. Yes or no? Why don't you want to answer it? Dishonesty? Is the sharia law objective. Pls answer it.

please leave him...
I don notice say na troll he be

dalaman:


Nothing was answered there. You didn't answer the question. You kept running away from it because you know it exposes all the nonsense you've been saying. The sharia law was given to mankind by God himself. Is it objective? Your deliberate failure to answer it shows that you clearly know that what you are saying is RUBBISH.

seconded.

randomperson:


I don't believe he does... But I believe the representation we're given of him is evil, contrary to what Christians would have us believe

That's your dilemma. If you believe evil exists then you must believe in the existence of good. God is good and He is good all the time. He is the ultimate source of goodness. He is the absolute moral law giver.

MrMontella:

please leave him...
I don notice say na troll he be

Real one sef.

Kaycee7:
The man who marries the non-virgin.

Wow... I just like how u are churning out ridiculous statements.
So how is the mam a victim? What exactly is he deprived of? And why is that thing worth the gruesome murder of another human being?
Again, is it not the man who agrees to marry a deflowered lady that should be concerned? What if the man doesn't have a problem with his wife's lack of virginity? Why didn't god pronounce lighter punishment like fine?
Now let's compare with the evils of drug trafficking. More than 200,000 people die every year as a result of drug overdose. That's not counting the people who are victims of wars or gunfights between drug cartels. So compare this with losing your virginity and now tell me how they are equally evil.

randomperson:

Wow... I just like how u are churning out ridiculous statements.
So how is the mam a victim? What exactly is he deprived of? And why is that thing worth the gruesome murder of another human being?
Again, is it not the man who agrees to marry a deflowered lady that should be concerned? What if the man doesn't have a problem with his wife's lack of virginity? Why didn't god pronounce lighter punishment like fine?
Now let's compare with the evils of drug trafficking. More than 200,000 people die every year as a result of drug overdose. That's not counting the people who are victims of wars or gunfights between drug cartels. So compare this with losing your virginity and now tell me how they are equally evil.

A bride is supposed to be pure until her wedding night. The husband is deprived of a chaste and honorable woman that he believes he's marrying.
Most husbands don't even see the bride naked before the wedding night. So they can't know they they're not virgins until the marriage is consumated. Then it's up to the husband to decide whether to make a report to the elders. Proper investigation will then be carried out to determine if the girl really did lose her virginity before marriage. Upon which she will be sentenced. So if convincing proof is not discovered, the girl will be acquitted.

Meeting your husband as a non-virgin and drug trafficking are both considered heinous crimes by the respective societies that levied the death penalty on them

Kaycee7:
All females who lose their virginity before marriage should be stoned to death is a law. A section of the constitution. Females had a choice. Abstain from sex before marriage or suffer the consequences.
Hitler kills thousands of jews is a statement. The jews could not help being jews. They could not have stopped being jew or change to something else.

This is a terrible effort at distinguishing... Are you saying once something is the law, it's right? There was once a law that black people could be owned as property and used as slaves. Was that law right? In some countries there were laws that anyone who goes to church should be killed, is that law right? At least, u can make the choice NOT to go to church.

Kaycee7:
A bride is supposed to be pure until her wedding night. The husband is deprived of a chaste and honorable woman that he believes he's marrying.
Most husbands don't even see the bride naked before the wedding night. So they can't know they they're not virgins until the marriage is consumated. Then it's up to the husband to decide whether to make a report to the elders. Proper investigation will then be carried out to determine if the girl really did lose her virginity before marriage. Upon which she will be sentenced. So if convincing proof is not discovered, the girl will be acquitted.

Meeting your husband as a non-virgin and drug trafficking are both considered heinous crimes by the respective societies that levied the death penalty on them

The husband doesn't have to tell the elders. If the girl is caught having sex, she's stoned to death. No one asks whether there is a man who would like to marry her inspite of that...
And the fact that society considers something wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I told u to show how drug trafficking is equal to losing your virginity

Kaycee7:
A bride is supposed to be pure until her wedding night. The husband is deprived of a chaste and honorable woman that he believes he's marrying.
Most husbands don't even see the bride naked before the wedding night. So they can't know they they're not virgins until the marriage is consumated. Then it's up to the husband to decide whether to make a report to the elders. Proper investigation will then be carried out to determine if the girl really did lose her virginity before marriage. Upon which she will be sentenced. So if convincing proof is not discovered, the girl will be acquitted.

Meeting your husband as a non-virgin and drug trafficking are both considered heinous crimes by the respective societies that levied the death penalty on them

I am shocked beyond belief that I am reading this from a supposedly educated person in the 21st century. Religion really destroys ones humanity, no wonder some people see honour killings as a religious obligation.

A bride is supposed to be pure before her wedding night, but a groom is not. So it is virginity that make women honourable but not men? So what makes men honourable?
The mere fact that a girl lost her virginity is enough to justify capital punishment? So what happens if a girls loses her virginity in other ways other than sex? Women were usually raped as war booty in the event that of the city or town falling to enemies, and that happened a lot in the Bible. So what happens to all the raped girls after the enemies leave, they should be mass stoned?

Most men marry more than 1 wife in the Bible unmarried virgins must be scarce. No wonder men were marrying girls that barely reach puberty.

It is a surprise that Christians are critical of sharia law, but at the same time support the essence of the laws.

This passage of the Bible deals with how to deal with captured men and women as war booties;

Numbers 31: 17-18.
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known man by lying with him.
18But all the young girls, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

So what happens to the virgins thereafter.

wirinet:


I am shocked beyond belief that I am reading this from a supposedly educated person in the 21st century. Religion really destroys ones humanity, no wonder some people see honour killings as a religious obligation.

A bride is supposed to be pure before her wedding night, but a groom is not. So it is virginity that make women honourable but not men? So what makes men honourable?
The mere fact that a girl lost her virginity is enough to justify capital punishment? So what happens if a girls loses her virginity in other ways other than sex? Women were usually raped as war booty in the event that of the city or town falling to enemies, and that happened a lot in the Bible. So what happens to all the raped girls after the enemies leave, they should be mass stoned?

Most men marry more than 1 wife in the Bible unmarried virgins must be scarce. No wonder men were marrying girls that barely reach puberty.

It is a surprise that Christians are critical of sharia law, but at the same time support the essence of the laws.

This passage of the Bible deals with how to deal with captured men and women as war booties;

So what happens to the virgins thereafter.

Christianity manages to bring the worst in people. U see Christians on this forum justify anything from rape to murder to genocide to slavery all in a bid to claim that their god is good and the bible is infallible. And when boko haram attacks a church and kill people, they complain...

Singapore adheres strictly to the law that predisposes drug peddlers. Perhaps Singapore's posterity will see this law as barbaric, nefarious and vicious. In the sense that it may not tally with their modern day lives.

This also explains my take on the Bible. This book was not inspired by God, reason be that the flagrantly nefarious events do not tally with the modern day society. We now see those events especially in the OT as unlawful and an evil thing to do because we do not live in those times. Perhaps then it deemed right to a vast majority but now it's the opposite. Humans way of thinking and way of life evolves over time.

The Bible is just another history book explaining how people lived their lives in the past. Perhaps, there were few knowledgeable people who could read the lies they documented. Good thing people could read now and think for themselves.

If a God really exists, I beg to differ believing in the Christian, Hindu or Muslim God whatsoever.

I hate arguing with apologists. And I'm coming to rape their sisters with my big blokos, such an easy way to get married. Lolzzz. Does that even sound like the right thing based on our way of life now? Think.....

randomperson:

This is a terrible effort at distinguishing... Are you saying once something is the law, it's right? There was once a law that black people could be owned as property and used as slaves. Was that law right? In some countries there were laws that anyone who goes to church should be killed, is that law right? At least, u can make the choice NOT to go to church.

The laws on sexuality does its best to be fair. Non-virgins had the option to remain single or get married with less dowry. The stoning was a sentence passed on non-virgins who tried to pass themselves off as virgin brides and were discovered. It was akin to fraud. Is fraud right?

randomperson:

The husband doesn't have to tell the elders. If the girl is caught having sex, she's stoned to death. No one asks whether there is a man who would like to marry her inspite of that...
And the fact that society considers something wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I told u to show how drug trafficking is equal to losing your virginity

Read Deuteronomy 22 thoroughly, my friend. If a married or engaged woman is caught having sex, she and her partner are executed. If she is unattached to a man, then her partner must marry her.

Kaycee7:
The laws on sexuality does its best to be fair. Non-virgins had the option to remain single or get married with less dowry. The stoning was a sentence passed on non-virgins who tried to pass themselves off as virgin brides and were discovered. It was akin to fraud. Is fraud right?

Fraud? Really?? Christians make me laugh... It can only be construed as fraud if the husband was deceived that he was marrying a virgin... However what if the virginity was actually lost to the husband before marriage??
Even if we're to assume that it's fraud, so stoning to death is the best punishment for fraud?? Even the uneducated people in Yoruba land before the coming off the white man doesn't stone girls who lost their virginity before marriage, it only reduced the bride price and even that was demeaning to women but stoning them??... Interpret it any way u want and give any excuse that suits your conscience but stoning people is wrong in every way, that Christianity is making u contemplate stoning a human being to death as a right thing is just sad...

wirinet:


I am shocked beyond belief that I am reading this from a supposedly educated person in the 21st century. Religion really destroys ones humanity, no wonder some people see honour killings as a religious obligation.

A bride is supposed to be pure before her wedding night, but a groom is not. So it is virginity that make women honourable but not men? So what makes men honourable?
The mere fact that a girl lost her virginity is enough to justify capital punishment? So what happens if a girls loses her virginity in other ways other than sex? Women were usually raped as war booty in the event that of the city or town falling to enemies, and that happened a lot in the Bible. So what happens to all the raped girls after the enemies leave, they should be mass stoned?

Most men marry more than 1 wife in the Bible unmarried virgins must be scarce. No wonder men were marrying girls that barely reach puberty.

It is a surprise that Christians are critical of sharia law, but at the same time support the essence of the laws.

This passage of the Bible deals with how to deal with captured men and women as war booties;

So what happens to the virgins thereafter.

We're discussing events in b.c and you're judging me with a 21st century mindset. That hardly seems fair.
Besides, a man marrying his 2nd or 3rd wife can hardly be expected to be a virgin.
It wasn't just the bleeding test that was used. Pregnancy tests and other tests were issued before judgment was passed.
Victims of rape aren't executed.
Numbers 31 : 17-18 is not a set down law but a directive peculiar to the assault against Midian. Stop nitpicking

randomperson:

Fraud? Really?? Christians make me laugh... It can only be construed as fraud if the husband was deceived that he was marrying a virgin... However what if the virginity was actually lost to the husband before marriage??
Even if we're to assume that it's fraud, so stoning to death is the best punishment for fraud?? Even the uneducated people in Yoruba land before the coming off the white man doesn't stone girls who lost their virginity before marriage, it only reduced the bride price and even that was demeaning to women but stoning them??... Interpret it any way u want and give any excuse that suits your conscience but stoning people is wrong in every way, that Christianity is making u contemplate stoning a human being to death as a right thing is just sad...

If a husband accuses a woman he deflowered and she is executed, this evil is upon the man's conscience and God will make him pay

Kaycee7:
If a husband accuses a woman he deflowered and she is executed, this evil is upon the man's conscience and God will make him pay

Oh... So the husband is to blame but the god who created a rule where the husband can easily orchestrate the stoning of a woman has absolutely no fault..
Nice one