torres89:
so what do u believe in

u what do u have faith in

where do u come from

realtem:
Hmmm...

What does "God" in your writeup mean?

Zither:

God's existence is independent of faith. In the era when the gods you mentioned were worshipped they were not known all over the world except in the geographical territory where those religions were practiced.

Today, they have become objects of history because time has exposed them as myths. However, God, the God of Abraham, who has been before the gods you mentioned including Allah is widely known all over the world yet there are hundreds of millions of people who don't believe in Him still He fills the past, present and future, faith or not.

The gods you mentioned faded away because they are temporary inventions of man; God is eternal and as such He remains present throughout eternity.

Zither:
Weak argument. I have a simple answer to your question to prove that God exists: His existence is independent of faith. In the era when the gods you mentioned were worshipped they were not known all over the world except in the geographical territory where those religions were practiced.

Today, they have become objects of history because time has exposed them as myths. However, God, the God of Abraham, who has been before the gods you mentioned including Allah is widely known all over the world yet there are hundreds of millions of people who don't believe in Him still He fills the past, present and future, faith or not.

The gods you mentioned faded away because they are temporary inventions of man; God is eternal and as such He remains present throughout eternity.

CAPSLOCKED:





SHAME.
YOUR AFRICAN ANCESTORS ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH YOU WHERE EVER THEY ARE.

plaetton:


Your argument is very week.
For example, one of today's most popular god , Allah, whom you say is widely known all over the world, was promoted worldwide by force and violence, where resistance equalled death.
Can you not see the long and expansive swaths of Blood that the promoters of Allah, and by extension, Yahweh, carved in almost every continent ?

The Spanish conquistadors, for another example, murdered hundreds of thousands of Native South Americans in order to GIFT them the love of Jesus. Today , South America has more Jesus-loving Christians than all of Europe.
Again, is that that proof that the Christian god is real ?

Forced or coerced belief can hardly be proof of the existence of Allah or Yahweh.
Is it ?

Let me give you another example.
I am estimating that there are at least between 500m to 1b children worldwide who believe in Santa Claus and the steadfast generosity of the ToothFairy. And the belief in ToothFairy is probably as old as the Abrahamic religions themselves.

Now, By your warped logic, that should be proof that both the ToothFairy and good ol Santa Claus are real supernatural beings.

Zither:


Tell me why Daniel Ekechukwu who died, was certified dead by qualified doctors with evidence, and his corpse deposited in the mortuary came back to life after many hours though he was dead, brain dead, body rigid, and had no sign of life even through the night he was in the mortuary? Do dead people exercise faith? Google Daniel Ekechukwu before you ask me who he is.

plaetton:

Whether Daniel Ekechukwu is true or not is still immaterial to the issue of God's existence.
Again, by your warped logic, the so-called Daniel Ekechukwu episode should equally be proof of the existence of Zeus, Amadioha or The ToothFairy.
Take your pick.

plaetton:
l
Whether Daniel Ekechukwu is true or not is still immaterial to the issue of God's existence.
Again, by your warped logic, the so-called Daniel Ekechukwu episode should equally be proof of the existence of Zeus, Amadioha or The ToothFairy.
Take your pick.

Zither:



Like Daniel Ekechukwu, Dean Braxton's story is a proof of the existence of Jesus Christ and God the Father. Give me testimonies of people who died and saw Amadioha, Allah, Zeus, Ra, etc… then you will have an argument.[/color]

Zither:


Very relevant to the issue of God's existence. First, his resurrection has nothing to do with science which is the final authority of the atheists. It was not an act of medical resuscitation. This already punches a big hole in the atheists argument that there is no life beyond the grave and that humans do not have a soul that lives forever. Secondly, corpses don't have the intelligence to exercise faith but his testimony holds that God brought Him back to life. If he had no faith in which its absence should erode the existence of God how did he come back to life? Finally, Zeus or Amadioha or the ToothFairy or Allah would be real beings only if there were thousands upon thousands of cases defying scientific explanation as obtains in Christianity where they were witnessed by those who died and came back to life. Why aren't they making themselves known? Simple, they are myths but Jesus is not; He is very much real and present.

While pondering this, if you care to explain I would appreciate it to know the scientific reason why Dean Braxton died for two hours and came back to life and testified to God's existence. The doctor who was treating him when he died also confirmed this report. Why did he see Jesus, and not Allah or the ToothFairy or Amadioha?

Like Daniel Ekechukwu, Dean Braxton's story is a proof of the existence of Jesus Christ and God the Father. Give me testimonies of people who died and saw Amadioha, Allah, Zeus, Ra, etc… then you will have an argument.

Ermacc:
If God actually exists, the existence of God is totally independent of believe.

plaetton:

By same token , we can also infer that dead and forgotten gods like Zeus, Ra, Apollo, etc, who once were thought to reign Supreme in universe, are still in existence, even though no one believes in their existence today.

Ermacc:
That's because they were proven to be myths. Do you think a God ( a unit responsible for our existence and the existence of the world we find ourselves in) exist?

plaetton:
With almost daily encounters with Christians out in the streets, on the buses and on airwaves, beckoning anyone who cares to listen to rely on god and accept Jesus, I have come to realize that today's popular religion s , particularly on account of their histories, that the middle East religions have been on permanent membership recruitment drive since their foundings.
In Islam ,for example, not believing in god or renouncing a belief in god can earn one a death sentence.

So, the simple and most important question we ask is :

Does god exist if No one believes in him ?

For the answer to that question, let's ask Zeus, Amen Ra, Ahura Mazda, Apollo , and other dead and forgotten gods whose corpses litter the streets of history.

The one single ingredient that brings a god, any god for that Matter , into existence is Faith.
Without belief/Faith gods have tended to wither and die.

Knowing this fact, the promoters and profiteers of today's religions have , over the millennia, set up many layers of self-defense and self-preservation mechanisms that keeps recruitment permanent, and attrition at the barest minimum.

God, like all imaginary friends , heroes , villains and monsters, ceases to exist the moment people stop believing .

JMAN05:


I stopped believing in plaetton, you wither and die. What is he saying??

plaetton:


A whole lot of incoherent babble.

But you still don't get it.

Why don't you tell us why your so-called Daniel Ekechukwu and Dean Beacon's stories are not proof of the existence of Amadioha, Zeus or the ToothFairy ?
Did either of them claim to have met Jesus or Yahweh in person, and verified their identities ?

KingEbukasBlog:
plaetton , is atheism the rejection of the deification of an entity or the denial of the existence of an entity because it is deified ?

The last time I checked the existence of the mind behind the existence of everything isn't what atheists reject , the deification is what atheists reject .

Take your time , this will sink in .

NPComplete:


I haven't seen flawed arguments like this in a long time. Hope u realise that different people from different faiths have died and come back to life with most of them testifying to whatever seems to back up their faith? Even faithless people have died and come back to life. If u are claiming faith in Yahweh is required to be brought back to life then who brought all the non Christians back? Cthulhu?

Zither:


I have established that there's life after death through this scientifically inexplicable but verifiable happenings. As regards your question, you may need to hear Dean Braxton's testimony if you want to know more. Faith does not make something abstract a reality neither does the lack of it obliterate the existence of reality.

Like I said, give me examples of similar testimonies of witnesses to the existence of Allah or Zeus. How many peeps have had experiences of speaking with them? Who has spoken to Allah or seen him? Zeus? Krishna? ToothFairy? Now you see why their experiences cannot be proof of the existence of mythic gods, gods that remain only in the pages of the books where they were spoken of unlike the Christian God.

Zither:




I have established that there's life after death through this scientifically inexplicable but verifiable happenings. As regards your question, you may need to hear Dean Braxton's testimony if you want to know more.

Zither:


Like I said, give me examples of similar testimonies of witnesses to the existence of Allah or Zeus. How many peeps have had experiences of speaking with them? Who has spoken to Allah or seen him? Zeus? Krishna? ToothFairy? Now you see why their experiences cannot be proof of the existence of mythic gods, gods that remain only in the pages of the books where they were spoken of unlike the Christian God.

Zither:


Knowing that a great many of them were unbelievers and non-Christians when they had NDEs and OBEs. Not everyone who has an OBE or NDE sees heaven or hell or God or angels or demons. Ernest Hemmingway is one of such examples.

That said, please give me one or two names of faithless people who died for many hours with proof like the ones I mentioned above and came back to life to testify to the reality of a being or nothing other than God. I await your response.

Zither:


Knowing that a great many of them were unbelievers and non-Christians when they had NDEs and OBEs. Not everyone who has an OBE or NDE sees heaven or hell or God or angels or demons. Ernest Hemmingway is one of such examples.

That said, please give me one or two names of faithless people who died for many hours with proof like the ones I mentioned above and came back to life to testify to the reality of a being or nothing other than God. I await your response.

NPComplete:


**Sigh** Not all of them sees God. Some see light. Some see their family members. Some see their own gods. I am sure if we go back some centuries, some will have seen Zeus or Odin.

http://www.horizonresearch.org/near-death/intro-to-the-nde-phenomena/religion-culture-and-near-death-experiences/

The problem is paucity of information from non-western sources. I will find some very intriguing ones and post it later