johnydon22:


None physical presence does not equate nothing, and bringing on the dream analogy we could still argue that dream is a projection from neurons just like holograms can be beamed from a solid projector.

arguing that God doesn't have a physical presence still doesn't mean same thing as God being nothing, if you repeat again that God is nothing then you have once again defeated your own argument because nothing literally means it's not there.

my reply to this once again
"
But if this owner is a skilled designer as you are implying, then this skilled designer is something and if it something (spiritual/natural) something is something, it follows that it must equally be as complex or more therefore we shout at the design argument to hold for it."

rhektor:



So you're afraid of their logical debates that always shred your faceless facts like tissue paper?

vaxx:
j know the chemistry behind dream.. my question to you is tangible. how can you physically proof it to me . you actually dream?

I never say god is nothing.

this is another misinterpretation from you. God is simply beyond human logic. therefore human logic cannot explain it.

the moment you qualify God with anything. then it flaw the definition of God . so By mere saying God is nothing. has also flaw the definition of God.

dalaman:
African traditional religions were well thought out and refined that's why most people find the foreign religions more appealing. We were supposed to have refined them and make them more appealing but we didn't.

johnydon22:
More appealing?

No doubt, thats why it has less and less adherents everyday.

vaxx:
j know the chemistry behind dream.. my question to you is tangible. how can you physically proof it to me . you actually dream?

I never say god is nothing. this is another misinterpretation from you. God is simply beyond human logic. therefore human logic cannot explain it. the moment you qualify God with anything. then it flaw the definition of God . so By mere saying God is nothing. has also flaw the definition of God.

johnydon22:
Dream is a subjective experience just like imagination, objective realities require proof not subjective realities, more like asking a schizophrenic patience to prove the monster from the wall.

Saying God is not something is another way of saying God is nothing, so yes you did, would you like me to show you where?

The same human logic you used to deduce God is uncreated, eternal - still shooting your own argument in the foot.

If God is outside the periscope of human logic, humans can only assume God it can never be an objectively verifiable being must be within the horizon of assumption and confident speculations.



You did that yourself. Circular argument, paradoxical definition. God is nothing, god cannot be anything - try and pay attention to your own arguments

vaxx:
am glad you are following. I ask for tangible evidence of your dream. you quickly remind me is a subjective experience which I agree with you. fine.

let's apply the same logic here by reading my little story.

i went to file a report at the police station about the last night robbery in my house when I was in the kitchen. the police ask me for the identity of the robber. i said it is unknown because I was in the kitchen when it happen.


the significance of the story.

the criminal identity is unknown but actually there was robbery. likewise the presence of God is true but the identity is unknown.

I never say God is nothing nor do I say God is something. this is fabrication on your own side.

I never use logic to deduce the definition of god. the touchstone(IFA) says so not me. unless you have enough evidence to actually refute the premises .

let me make your work easier. there is no God you mean. then tell me what it is God. supposing I say you are not a white man. I should know what or who should be a white man.

johnydon22:


A shabby analogy that aims to quantify objective reality with subjective counterparts, If God is an objective being such examples is invalid, if God is subjective then i am pretty sure that sums up the very bone of contention.




This is the problem with assumptions, inter-lapping qualities, creating a contradiction of assertion - If you neither saw the thief nor heard him, you can never reveal any characteristic of the thief, you cannot say how old the thief is, you cannot say how tall he is, so now apply that same analogy to the postulation of God as you have proposed, unknown identify that somehow you know it's quality therefore killing the very same clutch of unknown.

You know God is eternal, God is uncreated, a perfect designer - removes the analogy from the actual point it aims to prove

You said "God is not something" and that is a clear use of the English word. Not something is the long version of Nothing.

So pulling out semantics like i never said God is nothing or something still brings down your argument to absolute meaninglessness, it is just as paradoxical as saying something is everything at the same time nothing, if its everything, it is not nothing, if it's nothing, it is not everything.

God cannot be nothing at the same time something, it is paradoxical and self annihilating.
So i advice chose your words carefully bob, semantics doesn't go down so well here because you will always end up with a paradox



You don't even have a definition of God to work with here in the first place and if there is no definition the very concept becomes meaningless.



www.google.com

keyword: God/god

vaxx:

Doubt in the existence of God (olodumare)only confirms His existence.

so i say to you. that attempt to validate doubt in God' inexistence serve only to confirm that is in existence.

Proudgorgeousga:


this part of you post doesn't really make sense.

growing up I had doubts about the existence of Santa Claus does it confirm the existence of Santa?

vaxx:
it baffled me that most of the atheist argument don't hold water and yet they are still stick to their believe . Santa Claus is a character of dead St Nicholas. therefore it has a fictional identity. when you were young you do not have the idea of your own. you were not using your understanding, that is why your guardians dictate for you. now that you are mature. do your instinct or logic still tell you Santa exist?

well there are probably some matured men who may believe Santa Claus is a reality, but I suspect they would be mental patients or they are not fully in touch with reality.

Proudgorgeousga:


please leave long. story. I really want to understand how doubting something confirms it's existence. explain in simple terms.

vaxx:
well it seems you do not have a case. you don't have a comprehension of whom is God. after so many enlightenment and case study.
here . may be i should make it simple for you again. olodumare has no human qualities, physical or matter identity. even you failed to grasp the robbery analogy again. the presence of the criminal is all i need. at least there was an action of robbery. the action is what am presting to the police not the identity. God action are in the human and spider design scenario I gave earlier.

rational thought

for me there is no need for me to deny that which does not exist. Take the earth for instance .early philosopher say it is round. Others say it is flat. now science says it is spherical. mind you there there is evidence but it was unknown until science proof it.

before the refutation and your evidence there must be a pre-existing truth. it is unknown now because science has not confirm it.

An attempt to deny the existence of God pre-supposes the truth that God exists. Otherwise, why would you make the attempt to advance such denials?

An attempt to deny a thing and argue about it is impossible to put forth apart from the existence of the thing.

if there were no basis for asserting the existence of a thing, why are you arguing about it? why do you nurse the faith.

Doubt in the existence of God (olodumare)only confirms His existence.

so i say to you. that attempt to validate doubt in God' inexistence serve only to confirm that is in existence.


noted.
i ask you a direct question. you redirect me to Google. this is very absurd . is like a child who failed to use his understanding but largely depends on his parent even at age 40. when will the child matured?

I think for my self and I don't need anyone else. other information I got elsewhere are just a contributor. I will not be repeating my self again with the same evidence i had earlier provided

i have given the definition of olodumare in many part our discussion. so why should I state here again. i realised one thing from you. you do not subject yourself to out of the box reasoning.


have you ever consider probability? if not do. my kind advice.

purem:
Reason is that African traditional believers respect atheists and science. If they know you don't believe them they will live you alone.

Not the Christians that always goes for evangelism, winning souls.

Forcing you to believe there imaginary god and if an

atheist or scientist brings out EXPLANATION and FACTS they will bring debate and try to debunk it.

purem:
Reason is that African traditional believers respect atheists and science. If they know you don't believe them they will live you alone.

Not the Christians that always goes for evangelism, winning souls.

Forcing you to believe there imaginary god and if an

atheist or scientist brings out EXPLANATION and FACTS they will bring debate and try to debunk it.

butterflylion:


So someone walks up to you or to your door and you willingly listen to them share the gospel of Jesus with you and while doing so you also willingly ask them some questions about things you do not understand in the Bible and they patiently explain it to you and when done they ask you if you wish to give your life to Christ (with no weapon in their hands) and you willingly say yes or no has now turned to forcing you to believe?

What manner of stupid comment is this? Are you 5 years old and being shown a whip?

The 6 people who liked this monstrously stupid comment of yours must be 2 years younger than 5.

701ecilana:

Wow@ the bolded. Really? I never knew evangelism forces people to believe in God. Even islam with their swords do not force anyone. They give you a choice, recant or die. That's a choice albeit hard

purem:



Your comment is has stupid has how you will think it's stupid for an artheist to walk on your door and start telling u their is no god and giving facts and explanations to the subject. Think of that and realize how stupid you are to quote me on this manner

butterflylion:



If Atheists are sent to save the world then by all means they should come knock on my door and tell me how God does not exist and how he can never be proven to exist and I will receive them, make them a cup of tea and we will have that chat.

Save the world from who and what?

However they would simply talk but never take my choices away from me. That is where you show your stupidity shamelessly.

purem:



Bro I will advise you to reason things the way they are not religion way by so doing u could discover what is beyond. END OF DISCUSSION

butterflylion:


Repeating stupid things does not make you smart niggah!

If Atheists are sent to save the world then by all means they should come knock on my door and tell me how God does not exist and how he can never be proven to exist and I will receive them, make them a cup of tea and we will have that chat.

However they would simply talk but never take my choices away from me. That is where you show your stupidity shamelessly.

How can someones simple talk rob you of your personal choices when they did not have a gun to your head or knife to your throat?

Stupid is bad! Stop talking stupid!

butterflylion:


Bro I will advice you to speak English the way it should be spoken and not saying things like "religion way". That shows you cannot even reason!

Okay let's talk. Does religion stop anyone from reasoning out what is beyond? Religion is already "beyond". You atheists are simply attempting to get to your own version of "beyond ".

So let me ask you a very simple elementary question.

"When you die, will you end up simply as manure and food for worms or do you expect something more"?

dalaman:


You are the one that is stupid and talking stupidly. So the earth needs saving and it is christians that are sent to save it? Why didn't the dead Jewish hippe you guys worship as God come down and save humans himself? Why send fools like you to do his bidding? How have christians saved the world? By narrating mythology and fiction about how some dead Jewish hippie is the way to some mythical salvation abi? Well done. Oponuh.

In reality what christians do is not just talk. They condemn people, castigate and belittle them, tell them that their ways are evil, tell them that the christian narrative is the only right way. They will gladly tell them that they will end up in some fictitious hell fire where they will be tortured for all eternity if they fail to accept the nonsense mythology they are talking about while carrying their heads high because they are high on some delusional bubble.

But when you fight back and give them a taste of their own medicines they'll start crying and wailing that you are fighting God, baa, baa, meh, meh, you hate God, you are evil, demons are all over you and other nonsense mythical cliches.

dalaman:


Before you were born, were you simply a part of manure and food for worms or where you part of something more?

butterflylion:



Zombie when did I say Christians were sent to save the world? Or is your head paining you?

Since atheists feel they hold all answers and feel they are meant to liberate the world from religion is liberation not salvation again? So since you atheists feel you were sent or on a mission of salvation so feel free to knock on my door. Or are you no longer desirous of liberating the world from religion again?

So you fight back abi? Did anyone stop you from fighting back? As long as you so not fight back like North Korea or the maos or the Kim Jungs we are Okay.

You sound very hurt by something. Na Wetin dey pain you this morning?

butterflylion:


Before I was born my physical making parts were part of my mom and dad (sperm and egg) while my spiritual life giving parts were not.

So when you die will you end up as worm food only or you expect more? Na you I dey ask o zombie. You asked yours and I answered so try and answer mine and not throw another question.

dalaman:


You believe in some dead Jewish hippie and the mythology formed after him that one day he will bring you back to life after you are dead like a zombie, yet you are calling others zombie.



You held a meeting with atheist and they told you they feel they hold all the answers where and when?which atheist told you he Is sent on a.mission of salvation? Which atheist creed told you that? Stop projecting your delusions on others abeg. You believe in a mythical narrative that tells you to go and make disciples of all nations and drag them into your delusions, deal with it and stop projecting it on others.



You started by calling someone stupid and insulting him, I replied you in your own language and you are trying to go all emotional on me by claiming something is paining me. Nothing is paining me, if you want to go all emotional go and meet your wife or girl friend, if you are gay go meet up your gay lover and go emotional on them. I have no time for your nonsense. I only speak to people in their own language.

dalaman:


And this spiritual life giving parts was where?



Yu believe in some dead Jewish hippe that will raise you back to life like a Zombie and you are calling me a zombie? You are a joke.

I simply do NOT know what will happen after I die and I see no need to make up any assumption or accept any body's assumption and narrative of what will happen to me when I die.

butterflylion:



Kwakwakwakwakwa Kikikikikiki Abeg wail me a river.

So what are you constantly on Nairaland religion section attempting to do if not due to your personal vendetta against God and your attempt to save some "deluded " souls whom you feel religion has destroyed. Abi have you forgotten the thread where you shared your atheist conversion testimony?

Wetin I believe no suppose concern you na Abi no be so?

Suddenly burning red hot pain is making you mention wife and girlfriend and gay lover. Oga Abeg go take aspirin and help yourself.

Na my question wey I ask you be my concern. If you die will you just be worm food or you expect something more?

butterflylion:


so you do not know what happens when you die? OK let me leave that for now. When your relatives died or you went for the burial of someone close to you what happened to them after death? Worm food or something more? Since you cannot speak about your own maybe you can speak about someone else whom you have observed.