dalaman:



All this statements without even watching the debate and listening to how he deconstructed Craigs arguments abi?





You prefer foreign atheist that will dance to your sophist whims abi?

Ogbeni na wah oò. Why the serious vexation na ? My argument is very simple, just because mental states exists, there’s no reason to attribute that to being derived from a diety without any supporting evidence at all. It's very simple.

No mind the g jare. I just dey laff as I see wetin he call argument and he want make I discuss. Lol. Too many fallacies already and he's tryna play smart. Dude already embarrassed himself.

hopefulLandlord:
Christians say their god is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and omnibelevolent

if these qualities are true then we'd all know of this god's existence, here's why:

an omnipresent god is with me right now

an omniscient god knows what would convince me of his existence

an omnipotent god can do that thing that'll convince me

an omnibelevolent god would want to convince me of his existence


the fact that such an entity exists but requires humans to indoctrinate other humans about it points to the fact that such an entity does not exist!

Christians make the mistake of challenging the second premise by stating I'm "asking Yahweh to bend down to my wish" this is an absolute strawman as the second premise doesn't state anything specific about what I want Yahweh to do in order for me to believe he exists but Yahweh should know what would convince me better than even me

Francis Collins, a staunch atheist, became a Christian after witnessing a beheaded man come back to life after the corpse was prayed for by a MoG, his conversion to Christianity was finally sealed when he witnessed an amputee healing; he's always said those would convince him and Yahweh did it, "Yahweh bent to Francis Collins wish"

The above paragraph from the ninth (9th) word is a fabrication the below was actually Francis Collins conversion story

He was walking in the bush when he came across a frozen waterfall and he became convinced of Yahweh's existence and Christianity being true, he said he saw the frozen waterfall have three prongs and that convinced him that "Christian Trinity" is true

If Yahweh exists and Christianity is true, then Yahweh with his omniscience knew a frozen waterfall with three prongs is what would convince Francis Collins and he used his omnipotence to make it happen

if a Christian asked Francis Collins while he was a staunch atheist "What can happen that would convince you of Yahweh's existence and Christianity being true?"
I'll wager Collins would say "An amputee healing, a mountain moving" or something in that line; I'm 100% certain he won't say "a frozen waterfall split in 3 places"

in summary, the fact that a god like that exists and all those who believe in it do so out of "faith" shows it doesn't exist

You just nailed it!

hopefulLandlord:

Christians say their god is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and omnibelevolent

if these qualities are true then we'd all know of this god's existence, here's why:

an omnipresent god is with me right now

an omniscient god knows what would convince me of his existence

an omnipotent god can do that thing that'll convince me

an omnibelevolent god would want to convince me of his existence


the fact that such an entity exists but requires humans to indoctrinate other humans about it points to the fact that such an entity does not exist!

Christians make the mistake of challenging the second premise by stating I'm "asking Yahweh to bend down to my wish" this is an absolute strawman as the second premise doesn't state anything specific about what I want Yahweh to do in order for me to believe he exists but Yahweh should know what would convince me better than even me

Francis Collins, a staunch atheist, became a Christian after witnessing a beheaded man come back to life after the corpse was prayed for by a MoG, his conversion to Christianity was finally sealed when he witnessed an amputee healing; he's always said those would convince him and Yahweh did it, "Yahweh bent to Francis Collins wish"

The above paragraph from the ninth (9th) word is a fabrication the below was actually Francis Collins conversion story

He was walking in the bush when he came across a frozen waterfall and he became convinced of Yahweh's existence and Christianity being true, he said he saw the frozen waterfall have three prongs and that convinced him that "Christian Trinity" is true

If Yahweh exists and Christianity is true, then Yahweh with his omniscience knew a frozen waterfall with three prongs is what would convince Francis Collins and he used his omnipotence to make it happen

if a Christian asked Francis Collins while he was a staunch atheist "What can happen that would convince you of Yahweh's existence and Christianity being true?"
I'll wager Collins would say "An amputee healing, a mountain moving" or something in that line; I'm 100% certain he won't say "a frozen waterfall split in 3 places"

in summary, the fact that a god like that exists and all those who believe in it do so out of "faith" shows it doesn't exist

We were having this discussion in a thread, you ran away, but here you are making it seem like you are making valid points.

I asked you one simple question, but you jumped over it like you didn't see it.

Here it is again, with all the things around you which YHWH has put in place to convince you that He exists, but you remained unbelieving, (As you rightly pointed out that some people will not be convinced even when they see a beheaded person come back to life). [b] of what benefit will your conviction and believe that God exists is it to YHWH?

In other words, what will God gain if you believe in Him? Pls give one reason why you think YHWH needs you to be convinced about His existence.

Shalom.

rekinomtla:


Belief and knowledge are not mutually exclusive. In fact in order to have knowledge of anything, you must have belief and truth. For instance, you can't say you know 2+2=4 but don't believe it.

Sorry if you don't understand the part you marked bolded. Just so we both are cleared: the belief there means religious faith. Now you must understand that knowledge is acquired through experience and belief, or faith as it were, comes with no proof or empirical evidence. I know 2+2 = 4 because it can be proven. Or do you tell a child 2+2 = 4 and when asked how you arrived at the answer you say faith?

Here's another example: the sun exists. I know this because I experience it. More so, there's enough evidence to back my claim of the existence of the sun. I can't tell someone, "hey just believe (in the intransitive form) that the sun exists." It makes no sense right?

Back to the god case. If god exists, we will experience it and through this experience, I'll have knowledge of it. Faith won't be required to know this. I hope you're cleared.

Emmanystone:



We were having this discussion in a thread, you ran away, but here you are making it seem like you are making valid points.

I asked you one simple question, but you jumped over it like you didn't see it.

Here it is again, with all the things around you which YHWH has put in place to convince you that He exists, but you remained unbelieving, (As you rightly pointed out that some people will not be convinced even when they see a beheaded person come back to life). [b] of what benefit will your conviction and believe that God exists is it to YHWH?

What are the things that Yahweh has put to convince anybody of his existence?

In other words, what will God gain if you believe in Him? Pls give one reason why you think YHWH needs you to be convinced about His existence.

Shalom.

Because a cirding to the tale that is what Yahweh wants. Is it not the bible that says that there is rejoicing in heaven when a sinner is saved?

dalaman:


I know what the statement means. You just made the statement without foundation? What made you to make the statement? What is the relationship btw intentional states of consciousness and the existence of God? How have you been able to establish that intentional states of consciousness can NOT exist without God?

You made an empty assertion without any foundation and you want any body to take you seriously.

Lolzz. If the intentional state of consciousness can exist independent of God, Scientists would have created a conscious human without taking any tissue or cell from an existing human.

Emmanystone:

Lolzz. If the intentional state of consciousness can exist independent of God, Scientists would have created a conscious human without taking any tissue or cell from an existing human.

Your evidence that your God created human is what?

jimmyjenseng:


Nice evasion tactics. Adiós.

Hmmm. I guess this how you silence Christians. Wow.

KingEbukasBlog:


Mister , you are seriously pontificating here . Have you silenced me before ? A big opportunity is here for you to engage me in a debate . State your time and day .

And please knowledge is justified true belief . Don't talk philosophy when you are clearly inept at it .

We have arguments whose conclusions logically follow their premises. Let me produce one of them and see how you'd destroy it :

1. If God does not exist, intentional states of consciousness do not exist

2. Intentional states of consciousness exist

3. Therefore, God exists .

Please logically destroy this argument , I'm waiting.

Hello sir, don't let simple sentences give wide berth to your "omniscienceness." And one more advice: drop the confrontational attitude.

dalaman:


You guys keep making bogus and empty assertions always. I don't have time for your endless sophism. All I do is just cut the chase and show you how empty your assertions are. How did we jump from mental states pointing to the existence of an ultimate mind? Where is the foundation for this empty assertion.

Our mental state is evidence for our mental state. God's mental state can be demonstrated through which mechanism?

Where is butterflylion? Abeg come and carry your pikin o, he is here messing himself up with poo poo.

Emmanystone:

Hmmm. I guess this how you silence Christians. Wow.

Stop making me laugh bruv... He ran from his own argument. What else do you expect I did?

Emmanystone:

Lolzz. If the intentional state of consciousness can exist independent of God, Scientists would have created a conscious human without taking any tissue or cell from an existing human.

Forgive me and please permit me to ask: is this a special kind of stupid? Why must god always be the beginning and end of the circle? You're just making circular reasoning.

Emmanystone:



We were having this discussion in a thread, you ran away, but here you are making it seem like you are making valid points.

I asked you one simple question, but you jumped over it like you didn't see it.

Here it is again, with all the things around you which YHWH has put in place to convince you that He exists, but you remained unbelieving, (As you rightly pointed out that some people will not be convinced even when they see a beheaded person come back to life). [b] of what benefit will your conviction and believe that God exists is it to YHWH?

In other words, what will God gain if you believe in Him? Pls give one reason why you think YHWH needs you to be convinced about His existence.

Shalom.

how do you mean "ran away"? why not check the thread and see who stopped responding between the both of us?
hint: its not me, here's proof https://www.nairaland.com/4142955/atheist-logic/1#61967896

I'm not gonna say you "ran away" though

BTW, this question of yours shows you don't even understand the points at all! read my points again cuz I'm almost certain you haven't

KingEbukasBlog:


I still don't know why anyone would take the guy seriously. Anyway, you are an atheist so his shallowness will appeal to you .





This is one reason why I don't discuss topics like this with a Nigerian atheist. He is only good at dismissing arguments and making irrational rants and that's all . If I should go through the stress of explaining this thing and you don't give me a reasonable response, God will punish you for making me waste my time. And I'm not playing.

dalaman:


What are the things that Yahweh has put to convince anybody of his existence?



Because a cirding to the tale that is what Yahweh wants. Is it not the bible that says that there is rejoicing in heaven when a sinner is saved?

So, that rejoicing is what you think is YHWH benefit if you are convinced He exists?

Wow, Dalaman

Please stay an unbeliever you hear? Let YHWH die of grief and sorrow.

KingEbukasBlog:


You always dont have a good understanding of the argument before you start making baseless arguments and accusations.

The argument was drawn from our understanding of how our minds work ; Intentionality of our mental states which has to do with object directedness or aboutness of something. And this behaviour of mental states of finite minds like us only point to the existence of an ultimate mind . Material objects don't have such ability only mental states do .

Agreed.

jimmyjenseng:


Forgive me and please permit me to ask: is this a special kind of stupid? Why must god always be the beginning and end of the circle? You're just making circular reasoning.

Well, i'm not surprised how a stupid person gets blindsided by his own stupidity, but infers that to others.

Why didn't you tell me how consciousness is derived and why scientists have not been able to impute that in a robot and make it act independently?

dalaman:


You guys keep making bogus and empty assertions always. I don't have time for your endless sophism. All I do is just cut the chase and show you how empty your assertions are. How did we jump from mental states pointing to the existence of an ultimate mind? Where is the foundation for this empty assertion.

Our mental state is evidence for our mental state. God's mental state can be demonstrated through which mechanism?

In other word there must be a material mechanism that gods mind depends on? whixh makes no sense because his mind would depend on matter to exist and so He cant be God. Your materialism stinks.

KingEbukasBlog:

This is one reason why I don't discuss topics like this with a Nigerian atheist. He is only good at dismissing arguments and making irrational rants and that's all .

Not just Nigerian atheists. But atheists in general from any country.

Emmanystone:

Well, i'm not surprised how a stupid person gets blindsided by his own stupidity, but infers that to others.

Why didn't you tell me how consciousness is derived and why scientists have not been able to impute that in a robot and make it act independently?

so the fact that scientists haven't been able to figure out or do something is a proof of god? talk about god of the gaps

UyiIredia:


In other word there must be a material mechanism that gods mind depends on? whixh makes no sense because his mind would depend on matter to exist and so He cant be God. Your materialism stinks.

Your hasty and empty conclusion.No one talked about anything material. The mechanism though which God's mental state can be measured is what?

Emmanystone:


So, that rejoicing is what you think is YHWH benefit if you are convinced He exists?

Wow, Dalaman

Please stay an unbeliever you hear? Let YHWH die of grief and sorrow.

Accordingto the tale, there is rejoicing in heaven when a sinner is saved. Clearly if we are to agree with the tale then it means it's something that Yahweh and his Angels in heaven truly want, else why will they rejoice over it?

hopefulLandlord:


so the fact that scientists haven't been able to figure out or do something is a proof of god? talk about god of the gaps

But, God said he did it, but, you, the scientist said it's a lie, so tell me how it came to be.

jimmyjenseng:


Stop making me laugh bruv... He ran from his own argument. What else do you expect I did?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. He ran or you didn't have one rebutal to present? You must have copied that OP somewhere but never knew you'd meet someone who'll deflate you.

Here you are claiming you silenced every Christian. Wait!!! Were you a Muslim? Cos this is the fovorite line.

KingEbuka is still here, but you avoid him and respond to your fellow atheists.

Pls answer me, How did Conciousness got into you and why hasn't scientists been able to impute it into robots and make them act independently?

dalaman:


Your evidence that your God created human is what?

He has conciousness, i have conciousness which He said is His likeness in me.

dalaman:


Your evidence that your God created human is what?

What is your evidence that He doesn't exist?

hopefulLandlord:


so the fact that scientists haven't been able to figure out or do something is a proof of god? talk about god of the gaps

That is all scientists do, 'Figure things out'. How did the things they are trying to figure out came to be is what we the creationists are after.

A scientist figured out what causes an egg to float inside water, you get fascinated by that, but forget what caused the egg to be and what caused water to be.

Wow. These people. You even went to a point of posting a scientist saying 'They will need God to be the creator of what they have not been able to unravel, but when the understand it, they'd discard God.
Only thing is, they only figure out how it works not who or what brought about it.

Emmanystone:

What is your evidence that He doesn't exist?

You won't be telling me about him if he exist. He'll do that himself.

Emmanystone:

He has conciousness, i have conciousness which He said is His likeness in me.

He told you when and where?

dalaman:


He told you when and where?

You are being more childish than ever.


Can you go back a little and try answering some of the questions i asked?

Stop strawmanning pls.

How did consciousness get into you?

dalaman:


You won't be telling me about him if he exist. He'll do that himself.

How did your consciousness come about, pls. Stop the childishness. You creating impression in those who read you.