budaatum:

If you check the original text, you'd find it is pretty confusing. So if what you've written up there, that "God is not the author of confusion", is true, then God could not have written the text being discussed. Someone, or something else, must have written it.

I'd go for the 'someone'.


A very intelligent and wise person. So intelligent and wise that people made him into a God.

Absolutely not!. Jesus is God, he was not made God by anybody, He is God right from the very beginning.

I Understand you're an athiest, but the truth is right from the moment Jesus Christ came into this world as a human, the devil has been trying so hard to deny his diety and divinity. If the devil succeeds in making men believe that lie, then their confession will be contrary to what the bible said, contrary to what God has said. And your confession will either save you or destroy you. What else affects your confession other than your beliefs?. This subtle attempt must be clearly seen and guarded against. It has been in the works right from the bible days to the translation days till now and will continue to be so till the very end. It's a war of faith.

Jesus is God the son, the second person of the God head. Notice throughout scriptures how the bible reffers to Him as God, and yet makes it clear that we have only one God. If Jesus is the one who created all things, and He is a different God from the only God, then the bible is not correct, as that will mean we have two Gods. The only true God says I created heaven and earth, then the bible says Jesus created all things, how can that be?.

We have one and only true God, who exist or manifest himself in three personalities. In this three personalities, God the Father is the head or supreme, but they are all one and the same. Any attempt to separate them, or make one less than what He is, will be completely denying who God is. We must be careful here because we're dealing with a smart and deceptive devil/satan.



That's not what the bible said. The bible is the authority here. Let God be true and every man a liar. We all maybe wrong, but not the bible. No matter how translation affect the fact and reality, the truth will always be there in the bible as there are many verses of scripture to prove that.

Primesky:

What else affects your confession other than your beliefs?

My "beliefs" affect absolutely nothing Primesky, my knowledge does. I have found that I, and just about everybody, believe the things that we do because we actually have no knowledge whatsoever about what we claim. If we did have knowledge about it, we would say "I know", and not "I believe".

There is a rather very simple way of converting knowledge to belief. One just has to do some research to acquire knowledge. Unfortunately, many are way too lazy to do the work involved so they just accept what they are told and regurgitate it without actual facts or with the lamest of evidence to support their beliefs. It is these people who are referred to as those who build their houses where the winds would blow them away, and those who store up their wealth where moths would eat it. But I bet you would claim those analogies apply more to me, the unbeliever. And I am certain I can not compel you to consider that you could be wrong. You most likely believe I am the antichrist, and by doing as I suggest, I lead you to hell. That is the power your beliefs have over you. You beliefs stop you from considering what ever contradicts the beliefs you so dearly hang on to..

I've checked the Greek on this subject and presented what I found. To begin with, the word "theos" is not from the earliest texts but a transliteration of the Greek. A "transliteration is a type of conversion of a text from one script to another", and in transliterating the Greek Scripture an interpretation was imposed on it either in error or intentionally. Considering the Greek of Scripture is not the Greek of today, this was inevitable. In it's original form, it just about makes very little sense as I've shown in my post on the subject.

If the original had been clear on the divinity of Jesus, there wouldn't have been the constant arguments about it going on even before he died. But there are, and a person who wishes to know, as opposed to believing whatever pleases them, can go do some research and study to determine, or at least, learn about it. But that is not what a religious believer would do, being so vested in what they believe. You clearly show this error when you claim "the Bible is the authority". I beg to differ. I would claim the Holy Spirit is of greater authority. It does after all hold precedence over the Bible. And it is said to give the ability to discern.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading this thread, considering the evidence and arguments presented. It's not often one gets to read such intelligent stuff as this on here so I thank you for your effort and time.

OneJ:



.. LIES ,LIES ,LIES !
Everybody pls see the proof below:

John10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these,", replied the Jews,"but for blasphemy, because you ,a mere man ,claim to be God" . The wicked Jews made those false allegations against Jesus. U may ask "Why is it a false allegation?

Jesus himself provided the answers....
John10:34,-36. "Is it not written in your Law,
'I have said you are gods? ' "
(Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6).
John10:35: "If he called them 'gods' ,to whom the word of God came- and the Scripture cannot be broken
vs36 "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said , I am God's son ?".

Jesus himself said he is the son of God but the Jews deceitfully twisted his statement &falsely alleged that Jesus committed blasphemy. Because they were desperate to kill Jesus at all costs.
Shalom.

So you mean Jesus denied being God in that verse right?

OneJ:


Pls tell our fellow Nairalanders & guests whether U are confused when U call a well known man "Area father or Godfather" ?. Therefore, your opening questions lack merit & substance.


Primesky said " Jesus is not God the father, so who is he" ? Even Emusan , his partner in the Trinity fallacy said & I quote his statement: " did anybody ever said Jesus is the Father before ?"
My fellow Nairalanders & guests, una dey see how primesky & his fellow trinity peddlers. are confused?
Indeed, their brain always shut down in their dubious attempts to defend a lie Jesus himself neither taught nor believed.

I know sometimes simple comprehension might be hard for you people.

What I mean by my statement is that Jesus is not THE PERSON (in Nature) of whom we know as the Father but He is Eternal Father (in role).

Nature is different from role

So, both the person of the Father and Jesus Christ are ETERNAL FATHER in role.

budaatum:

My "beliefs" affect absolutely nothing Primesky, my knowledge does. I have found that I, and just about everybody, believe the things that we do because we actually have no knowledge whatsoever about what we claim. If we did have knowledge about it, we would say "I know", and not "I believe".

There is a rather very simple way of converting knowledge to belief. One just has to do some research to acquire knowledge. Unfortunately, many are way too lazy to do the work involved so they just accept what they are told and regurgitate it without actual facts or with the lamest of evidence to support their beliefs. It is these people who are referred to as those who build their houses where the winds would blow them away, and those who store up their wealth where moths would eat it. But I bet you would claim those analogies apply more to me, the unbeliever. And I am certain I can not compel you to consider that you could be wrong. You most likely believe I am the antichrist, and by doing as I suggest, I lead you to hell. That is the power your beliefs have over you. You beliefs stop you from considering what ever contradicts the beliefs you so dearly hang on to..

I've checked the Greek on this subject and presented what I found. To begin with, the word "theos" is not from the earliest texts but a transliteration of the Greek. A "transliteration is a type of conversion of a text from one script to another", and in transliterating the Greek Scripture an interpretation was imposed on it either in error or intentionally. Considering the Greek of Scripture is not the Greek of today, this was inevitable. In it's original form, it just about makes very little sense as I've shown in my post on the subject.

If the original had been clear on the divinity of Jesus, there wouldn't have been the constant arguments about it going on even before he died. But there are, and a person who wishes to know, as opposed to believing whatever pleases them, can go do some research and study to determine, or at least, learn about it. But that is not what a religious believer would do, being so vested in what they believe. You clearly show this error when you claim "the Bible is the authority". I beg to differ. I would claim the Holy Spirit is of greater authority. It does after all hold precedence over the Bible. And it is said to give the ability to discern.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading this thread, considering the evidence and arguments presented. It's not often one gets to read such intelligent stuff as this on here so I thank you for your effort and time.

Knowledge is a waste if you choose not to believe. Knowledge will make sense to you when you believe and accept it as being factual and true. The challenge you will probably have is the fact that you haven't had a personal encounter with God himself. Saul was so brutal and cruel working against what he called a sect. As far as He was concerned, this so called Christians were mad!, why?, they acted against what he believed, as a result, He set out to destroy them. Everything changed the day he encountered Jesus Christ personally, everything else he thought he knew was pushed aside. And he became even more committed than the very apostles.

It will be very difficult for anybody, scientists, devil or whoever to tell me that God doesn't exist, I know Him for a person, and it shocks me to my bones when people say God doesn't exist. My respect for him is boundless, the fact that He is so powerful, and yet very patient, taking insults, abuse and all sorts of nonsense. But that won't continue for ever. See, God can wipe out the whole planet earth in one second, not minute!. I doubted it when He said it at first, until He showed it to me. Then I feared Him and respected Him the more. His love is simply amazing and patient. Let's not play with fire!

I have had several exposures to what Otem is spreading around as truth. I can tell you, I just managed to escape by the grace of God. Those guys are demons, not just aliens. They have amazing technological instrument the world can not imagine.

They have every possible explanation for everything. Far more wiser than we are, why not?, the devil have been around before us. They know what tickles our interest, they can predict our reaction., mesmerise our visions. But it's all lies!. Mind-blowing wonders and mesmerizing occurrences will come. I can't say certain things here because it's not yet time. But you need the bible, you need to read it very carefully and thoroughly. The truth any believer has of it now, could be what makes the difference in those days to come not too far from now. But the good news is, we, God's children will rout them in the name of Jesus Christ. That's why they want to first of all disconnect us from Him. Read about failed alien abductions. There's power in the name of Jesus Christ. My simple question is, why are they harvesting the eggs of women and the sperm of men, what do they want to create. Food for thought. I'm not saying trash. Common guys, we need Jesus Christ now!. Something deep is going on.

I can tell you, that a time is coming when man will be helpless over certain things, then these liars will come, pretending to help us, having disconnected many from God, but that's the beginning of terror. The shocker is that they won't look like what we normally see. They look refined. The truth is, they are already here. Full appearance won't come until the set time. So, the likes of Otem will increase. The day I saw their fake Jesus and read his own version of the bible, I knew from that day, that man is In for a huge deception. Deception so great you can kill as a Christian to defend it as being true. But God also warned us about it. That is why I keep an eye on that Otem of a guy. That thing he's doing is not a joke, it's apart of the plan to deceive man.

For you saying there's no God, it becomes even easier to mess you up, because you have absolutely no defense. If the so called Christians will so greatly fall, how about the non believer?.

OneJ:


Prime sky,U come dey copy & paste wetin U no fit understand.
U & these ntgreek people , all of una dey confused. The only true God, Jehovah (Yahweh) is not a God of confusion 1 Cor14:33


Pls see the proof below: Make I quote wetin U done copy & paste.

"in other words,contrary to the thought that 'since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being 'God', the fact that the word 'God'is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was infact God in its nature" ( Jesus is a spirit being, just like God his Father. ).

" However,since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article , it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God..".

The Trinitarian folks are a very confused bunch. The bitter truth is very obvious- their doctrine, although popular , is a man made fallacy built on the fraudulent corruption of God's word, the Bible since the 4th century CE.

Here is the gospel truth (John 20:30,31; 3:16 Matt16:13-17. 1 Cor15:24,28. 11:1,3. John17:3).
Pls accept it with a humble heart.
Shalom

Please, can somebody help me ask OneJ, what he is saying?. Why are you confusing yourself?. You have a verse with you, explain it and you're saying something else.

1. Oga, tell us why Jesus whom you deceptively call 'a god', is given a name equal with the Father?.

1.Tell us Mr OneJ, is Jesus Christ a true God or not?.

Primesky:
Knowledge is a waste if you choose not to believe. Knowledge will make sense to you when you believe and accept it as being factual and true. The challenge you will probably have is the fact that you haven't had a personal encounter with God himself. Saul was so brutal and cruel working against what he called a sect. As far as He was concerned, this so called Christians were mad!, why?, they acted against what he believed, as a result, He set out to destroy them. Everything changed the day he encountered Jesus Christ personally, everything else he thought he knew was pushed aside. And he became even more committed than the very apostles.

It will be very difficult for anybody, scientists, devil or whoever to tell me that God doesn't exist, I know Him for a person, and it shocks me to my bones when people say God doesn't exist. My respect for him is boundless, the fact that He is so powerful, and yet very patient, taking insults, abuse and all sorts of nonsense. But that won't continue for ever. See, God can wipe out the whole planet earth in one second, not minute!. I doubted it when He said it at first, until He showed it to me. Then I feared Him and respected Him the more. His love is simply amazing and patient. Let's not play with fire!

I have had several exposures to what Otem is spreading around as truth. I can tell you, I just managed to escape by the grace of God. Those guys are demons, not just aliens. They have amazing technological instrument the world can not imagine.

They have every possible explanation for everything. Far more wiser than we are, why not?, the devil have been around before us. They know what tickles our interest, they can predict our reaction., mesmerise our visions. But it's all lies!. Mind-blowing wonders and mesmerizing occurrences will come. I can't say certain things here because it's not yet time. But you need the bible, you need to read it very carefully and thoroughly. The truth any believer has of it now, could be what makes the difference in those days to come not too far from now. But the good news is, we, God's children will rout them in the name of Jesus Christ. That's why they want to first of all disconnect us from Him. Read about failed alien abductions. There's power in the name of Jesus Christ. My simple question is, why are they harvesting the eggs of women and the sperm of men, what do they want to create. Food for thought. I'm not saying trash. Common guys, we need Jesus Christ now!. Something deep is going on.

I can tell you, that a time is coming when man will be helpless over certain things, then these liars will come, pretending to help us, having disconnected many from God, but that's the beginning of terror. The shocker is that they won't look like what we normally see. They look refined. The truth is, they are already here. Full appearance won't come until the set time. So, the likes of Otem will increase. The day I saw their fake Jesus and read his own version of the bible, I knew from that day, that man is In for a huge deception. Deception so great you can kill as a Christian to defend it as being true. But God also warned us about it. That is why I keep an eye on that Otem of a guy. That thing he's doing is not a joke, it's apart of the plan to deceive man.

For you saying there's no God, it becomes even easier to mess you up, because you have absolutely no defense. If the so called Christians will so greatly fall, how about the non believer?

C'mon now Primesky, stay focused
and avoid or steer clear of old wives' tales

Primesky:
Please, can somebody help me ask OneJ, what he is saying?. Why are you confusing yourself?. You have a verse with you, explain it and you're saying something else.

1. Oga, tell us why Jesus whom you deceptively call 'a god', is given a name equal with the Father?.

1.Tell us Mr OneJ, is Jesus Christ a true God or not?.

OneJ has so far been faring well and not doing badly actually.
However, if there's one thing to agree to disagree with OneJ on, it is these two fundamentals

MuttleyLaff:
C'mon now Primesky, stay focused
and avoid or steer clear of old wives' tales

You see why I don't say these things?. No body will believe it, or few persons will accept it.

My dear, this is not made up alright?. What you see on Hollywood movies are not just fictional creations. They're real!. Oh please believe me. They're real as real!. Subliminal programming of the mind is going on, even with cartoons!.

You have no idea what's going on in the world you live in. If you sleep and wake the next day, it's a big miracle. You need to give God thanks. God keeps us and has put restrictions until the time. Have you not read it in the bible?. One of the greatest lie the devil has told is to make people believe he doesn't exist.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

My dear, this is what is keeping them from going full scale. God restricts them because of His love for us. But if we reject His truth and ways, then He will back off!. But His children will be secured. Please, what ever you do, don't joke with this times we're living in!.

Get close to God, I assure you, nothing will take you by surprise. The secrets of the Lord is with them that fear Him. He reveals hidden things. This is not my pride. My pride is Jesus Christ. Yea, it's all about Him.

Primesky:
You see why I don't say these things?.
No body will believe it, or few persons will accept it.

My dear, this is not made up alright?. What you see on Hollywood movies are not just fictional creations.
They're real!. Oh please believe me. They're real as real!. Subliminal programming of the mind is going on, even with cartoons!.

You have no idea what's going on in the world you live in. If you sleep and wake the next day, it's a big miracle. You need to give God thanks. God keeps us and has put restrictions until the time. Have you not read it in the bible?. One of the greatest lie the devil has told is to make people believe he doesn't exist.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

My dear, this is what is keeping them from going full scale. God restricts them because of His love for us. But if we reject His truth and ways, then He will back off!. But His children will be secured. Please, what ever you do, don't joke with this times we're living in!.

Get close to God, I assure you, nothing will take you by surprise. The secrets of the Lord is with them that fear Him. He reveals hidden things. This is not my pride. My pride is Jesus Christ. Yea, it's all about Him.

Everything you're saying, bar the old wives' tales, are irrefutable
Please stay focus brother.
Leave out fiction and moving into realms of fantasy

Primesky:


Please, can somebody help me ask OneJ, what he is saying?. Why are you confusing yourself?. You have a verse with you, explain it and you're saying something else.

1. Oga, tell us why Jesus whom you deceptively call 'a god', is given a name equal with the Father?.

1.Tell us Mr OneJ, is Jesus Christ a true God or not?.

Primesky make I break am down for U....

(i) Bcause of sin ,Adam the father of all mankind lost the God's gift of eternal life (Romans5:12. 6:23). God restored it back to man thru Jesus ransom sacrifice. God sent Jesus the second Adam & gave him the title of "Eternal Father". Jesus is Eternal father of everyone who believe in him & exercise faith that he is the God sent Messiah.(1Cor15:45. John 3:16). Also, because Jesus is our Eternal Father, he has authority to resurrect the dead (restore eternal life )back to faithful mankind (John 5:24-29. Acts 24:15). A human father gives life to his offspring . The Eternal Father grants eternal life to faithful believers.


(ii) Primesky, why U no wan use your brain? Is the usage of word "father" or any compound word with "father" limited to Baba God?
Is Godfather a reference to the Almighty God? God?


(iii) Primesky said "tell us Mr OneJ is Jesus Christ a true God or not?".

Nairalanders,Jesus has provided the answer. in John 17:3."Now this is eternal life: That they may know you ,the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent".
Also ,see Matt16:13-17. John 20:30,31.


Primesky, did Jesus say he is "the only true God"?


(iv) Even sef , ntgreek.org wey U dey quote up and down done deny U finish..... https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

"....when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of English translation and understanding.....
However since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Logos (Word) was not the same person as the Father God.."


(In other words, ntgreek.org admitted that " the word was a god" is very correct.
Una see am, ntgreek done agree say "the word was a god". Therefore,Jesus is not God).


Primesky, ntgreek.org ,your fellow Trinity peddlers done rubbish una doctrine finish.
Dem done destroy una Trinity lie lie forever.


(V) For the sole reason that John 1:1, Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22 have the same grammatical construction. Therefore, what is good for the gander is also good for the goose. To argue & deny "a god " in John 1:1c amounts to double standard & deceit to promote the trinity fallacy.




Primesky , I pray U receive sense &wisdom of understanding. IJNA.....

Primesky:
Please, can somebody help me ask OneJ, what he is saying?.
Why are you confusing yourself?.
You have a verse with you, explain it and you're saying something else.

1. Oga, tell us why Jesus whom you deceptively call 'a god', is given a name equal with the Father?.

1.Tell us Mr OneJ, is Jesus Christ a true God or not?.

OneJ:
Primesky make I break am down for U....

(i) Bcause of sin ,Adam the father of all mankind lost the God's gift of eternal life (Romans5:12. 6:23). God restored it back to man thru Jesus ransom sacrifice. God sent Jesus the second Adam & gave him the title of "Eternal Father". Jesus is Eternal father of everyone who believe in him & exercise faith that he is the God sent Messiah.(1Cor15:45. John 3:16). Also, because Jesus is our Eternal Father, he has authority to resurrect the dead (restore eternal life )back to faithful mankind (John 5:24-29. Acts 24:15). A human father gives life to his offspring . The Eternal Father grants eternal life to faithful believers.

(ii) Primesky, why U no wan use your brain? Is the usage of word "father" or any compound word with "father" limited to Baba God?
Is Godfather a reference to the Almighty God? God?

(iii) Primesky said "tell us Mr OneJ is Jesus Christ a true God or not?".

Nairalanders,Jesus has provided the answer. in John 17:3."Now this is eternal life: That they may know you ,the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent".
Also ,see Matt16:13-17. John 20:30,31.

Primesky, did Jesus say he is "the only true God"?

(iv) Even sef , ntgreek.org wey U dey quote up and down done deny U finish..... https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

"....when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of English translation and understanding.....
However since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Logos (Word) was not the same person as the Father God.."
(In other words, ntgreek.org admitted that " the word was a god" is very correct.
Una see am, ntgreek done agree say "the word was a god". Therefore, Jesus is not God).
Primesky, ntgreek.org ,your fellow Trinity peddlers done rubbish una doctrine finish.
Dem done destroy una Trinity lie lie forever.

(V) For the sole reason that John 1:1, Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22 have the same grammatical construction. Therefore, what is good for the gander is also good for the goose. To argue & deny "a god " in John 1:1c amounts to double standard & deceit to promote the trinity fallacy.

Primesky , I pray U receive sense &wisdom of understanding. IJNA.....

[img]https://s1/images/OneJ.jpg[/img]

⁵Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
⁶who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
⁷but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
⁸And being found in human form...
- Philippians 2:5-8a

OneJ, in actual fact, ntgreek.org admitted that "the word was a god" is very incorrect.
Una no see am, ntgreek nefa agree say "the word was a god". For where?
Besides, Philippians 2:5-8a above, if fact, hin ntgreek, too come conclude, say: "Jesus is God" Allelulai!
See am from the above screenshot blue highlighted section

MuttleyLaff:


[img]https://s1/images/OneJ.jpg[/img]

⁵Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
⁶who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
⁷but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
⁸And being found in human form...
- Philippians 2:5-8a

OneJ, in actual fact, ntgreek.org admitted that "the word was a god" is very incorrect.
Una no see am, ntgreek nefa agree say "the word was a god". For where?
Besides, Philippians 2:5-8a above, if fact, hin ntgreek, too come conclude, say: "Jesus is God" Allelulai!
See am from the above screenshot blue highlighted section

Fully understood

TATIME:
Fully understood

Your point, TATIME, is?
What is the point(s) you're trying to make with that screen grab?

MuttleyLaff:


[img]https://s1/images/OneJ.jpg[/img]

⁵Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
⁶who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
⁷but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
⁸And being found in human form...
- Philippians 2:5-8a

OneJ, in actual fact, ntgreek.org admitted that "the word was a god" is very incorrect.
Una no see am, ntgreek nefa agree say "the word was a god". For where?
Besides, Philippians 2:5-8a above, if fact, hin ntgreek, too come conclude, say: "Jesus is God" Allelulai!
See am from the above screenshot blue highlighted section

Mutteylaff, Trinitarian folks (ntgreek, Emusan who said "Jesus is not the Father' & Primesky who argued that Jesus is the Father) ,as shown above your views contradict each other because Una false doctrine dey confuse all of una.
Confusion transmission . Hahahahahaaa !


U too are confused . See the evidence .below....


" HAVE THIS IN YOUR MIND,which was also in Christ Jesus, (who existing in God's form ,didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped... " Mutteylaff, since its true that Christians have the mind of Christ, therefore, we "didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped" (we too are equal with God. That's the absolute conclusion too. U can't deny it !!).
Phil 2:9 " But God exalted him to a position where he is today.


There is no scripture where Christ gave command or orders to his Father. Why ? John14:28 the Father is greater than Jesus His son.


However, 1 Cor 2:16 says " we Christians have the mind of Christ," not the mind of God.
Jesus said (John14:24. 7:16)"What I teach is not mine,but belongs to Him who sent me"
Matt24:36 " Only the Father knows that Day & Hour" because Jesus is not God & he does not know what God knows.


Christ never claimed or said he is God. Trinitarian folks imposed Godship on Jesus by fire by force.....
Shalom

Primesky:


Knowledge is a waste if you choose not to believe. Knowledge will make sense to you when you believe and accept it as being factual and true.

For you saying there's no God, it becomes even easier to mess you up, because you have absolutely no defense. If the so called Christians will so greatly fall, how about the non believer?.

My dear Primesky, this is not a thread about whether there is god or not, and if I introduced that fact in this thread, apart from stating that I am an atheist, please accept my apology for derailing!

Knowledge is never a waste, Prime, and it does matter whether one believes it or not. If you believe the knowledge you have, you will close yourself to opposing information and therefore not learn anymore.

But I'm going to leave you as you are. Promise to look me up on the day please when mud is rubbed in your eye and you eventually see.

P.s.

I'm delighted you read Otem, by the way.
You at least live on more than bread alone.

OneJ:
Mutteylaff, Trinitarian folks (ntgreek, Emusan who said "Jesus is not the Father' & Primesky who argued that Jesus is the Father) ,as shown above your views contradict each other because Una false doctrine dey confuse all of una.
Confusion transmission . Hahahahahaaa !

U too are confused . See the evidence .below....

It's evident that you're the confused one here.....

There is no scripture where Christ gave command or orders to his Father. Why ? John14:28 the Father is greater than Jesus His son.

However, 1 Cor 2:16 says " we Christians have the mind of Christ," not the mind of God.
Jesus said (John14:24. 7:16)"What I teach is not mine,but belongs to Him who sent me"
Matt24:36 " Only the Father knows that Day & Hour" because Jesus is not God & he does not know what God knows.


Christ never claimed or said he is God. Trinitarian folks imposed Godship on Jesus by fire by force.....
Shalom

Like I do say, you people lack the scriptural knowledge about how Bible presented Jesus Christ that's why your teachings have always been forth and back.

As you missed it, Jesus didn't come to earth to prove to anyone that He is God rather to do His Father's will

Meanwhile, I've noticed that you people couldn't phantom when Bible refers to Jesus (NOTE: I used Jesus for simple understanding) before He become part of His own creation and when He finally became part of His own creation.

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT HIM BEFORE HE BECAME PART OF CREATION?
1. He is THE ETERNAL LIFE (NOTE the writer said "THE" 1 John 1:2.....eternal life can't be created
2. His ORIGIN was from TIME INDEFINITE (according to NWT) or as other versions put it "eternity, everlasting, ancient days: which is what the Father claimed by Himself....Mic 5:2
3. "NOTHING was created without Him....John 1:3" which means He's not part of creation.

These three points are enough for now because they are many of them!

These are the Biblical truth that even the disciples of Jesus know that's why person like Thomas can proclaim to Him as "My Lord and my God" and made all early Christians to pray to Him including Steven.

These are the truth that people like Mathetes 130AD, Polycarp(one of the disciples of Apostle John himself) 150AD, Justin Martyr e.t.c believe that made them to call Jesus God.

Mind you, these are early prominent Christian erlders which even your own Organization recognized their teachings and applaud.

A time is coming when I'll teach you people on this forum how Bible made distinguish between when Jesus was not part of creation and when He became part of creation.

Just like your organization admitted in their publication when they were trying to prove that "I and my father are one" isn't meant Jesus is God. it read "Well, Jesus is saying that he has powers that the Jews believe belong to God alone. For example, regarding the “sheep” he said: “I give them everlasting life,” which is something humans cannot do. (John 10:28 ) Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life; subtopic: one with the father, but not God, pg. 188 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/ministry-in-judea/not-equal-to-god/#?insight[search_id]=0605e742-3d9b-464e-a79f-0d0892d0847c&insight[search_result_index]=0

You can see your organization actually know that many things that Biblical writers applied to Jesus are actually what we know ONLY GOD POSSESES but in other to keep themselves confused the more they later said in the next text that "....The Jews are overlooking the fact that Jesus has openly admitted that he received authority from his Father"

Lastly, I asked you does it mean Jesus denied being God in John 10:30 or not? because you didn't answer it.

Emusan:


It's evident that you're the confused one here.....



Like I do say, you people lack the scriptural knowledge about how Bible presented Jesus Christ that's why your teachings have always been forth and back.

As you missed it, Jesus didn't come to earth to prove to anyone that He is God rather to do His Father's will

Meanwhile, I've noticed that you people couldn't phantom when Bible refers to Jesus (NOTE: I used Jesus for simple understanding) before He become part of His own creation and when He finally became part of His own creation.

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT HIM BEFORE HE BECAME PART OF CREATION?
1. He is THE ETERNAL LIFE (NOTE the writer said "THE" 1 John 1:2.....eternal life can't be created
2. His ORIGIN was from TIME INDEFINITE (according to NWT) or as other versions put it "eternity, everlasting, ancient days: which is what the Father claimed by Himself....Mic 5:2
3. "NOTHING was created without Him....John 1:3" which means He's not part of creation.

These three points are enough for now because they are many of them!

These are the Biblical truth that even the disciples of Jesus know that's why person like Thomas can proclaim to Him as "My Lord and my God" and made all early Christians to pray to Him including Steven.

These are the truth that people like Mathetes 130AD, Polycarp(one of the disciples of Apostle John himself) 150AD, Justin Martyr e.t.c believe that made them to call Jesus God.

Mind you, these are early prominent Christian erlders which even your own Organization recognized their teachings and applaud.

A time is coming when I'll teach you people on this forum how Bible made distinguish between when Jesus was not part of creation and when He became part of creation.

Just like your organization admitted in their publication when they were trying to prove that "I and my father are one" isn't meant Jesus is God. it read "Well, Jesus is saying that he has powers that the Jews believe belong to God alone. For example, regarding the “sheep” he said: “I give them everlasting life,” which is something humans cannot do. (John 10:28 ) Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life; subtopic: one with the father, but not God, pg. 188 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/ministry-in-judea/not-equal-to-god/#?insight[search_id]=0605e742-3d9b-464e-a79f-0d0892d0847c&insight[search_result_index]=0

You can see your organization actually know that many things that Biblical writers applied to Jesus are actually what we know ONLY GOD POSSESES but in other to keep themselves confused the more they later said in the next text that "....The Jews are overlooking the fact that Jesus has openly admitted that he received authority from his Father"

Lastly, I asked you does it mean Jesus denied being God in John 10:30 or not? because you didn't answer it.

May the Lord have mercy on OneJ. The statement that I said Jesus is the Father is totally false!. Why lie in an attempt to defend yourself?. Misinterpretation has always been a barrier with Jws. May the Lord open the eyes of people like oneJ just as He has done for many other former Jws.

God bless you Emusan for clearly explaining the matter to him. The truth can never be denied.

budaatum:

My dear Primesky, this is not a thread about whether there is god or not, and if I introduced that fact in this thread, apart from stating that I am an atheist, please accept my apology for derailing!

Knowledge is never a waste, Prime, and it does matter whether one believes it or not. If you believe the knowledge you have, you will close yourself to opposing information and therefore not learn anymore.

But I'm going to leave you as you are. Promise to look me up on the day please when mud is rubbed in your eye and you eventually see.

Hmm... I pray that like Paul you will encounter God by yourself. There's no need arguing with you. What you Don't know is bigger than you. I will rather not leave you as you are, but I will be praying for you that you will come to the knowledge of Christ Jesus. This is the greatest revelation anybody can have. I earnestly pray you have it.

Emusan:


It's evident that you're the confused one here.....



Like I do say, you people lack the scriptural knowledge about how Bible presented Jesus Christ that's why your teachings have always been forth and back.

As you missed it, Jesus didn't come to earth to prove to anyone that He is God rather to do His Father's will

Meanwhile, I've noticed that you people couldn't phantom when Bible refers to Jesus (NOTE: I used Jesus for simple understanding) before He become part of His own creation and when He finally became part of His own creation.

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT HIM BEFORE HE BECAME PART OF CREATION?
1. He is THE ETERNAL LIFE (NOTE the writer said "THE" 1 John 1:2.....eternal life can't be created
2. His ORIGIN was from TIME INDEFINITE (according to NWT) or as other versions put it "eternity, everlasting, ancient days: which is what the Father claimed by Himself....Mic 5:2
3. "NOTHING was created without Him....John 1:3" which means He's not part of creation.

These three points are enough for now because they are many of them!

These are the Biblical truth that even the disciples of Jesus know that's why person like Thomas can proclaim to Him as "My Lord and my God" and made all early Christians to pray to Him including Steven.

These are the truth that people like Mathetes 130AD, Polycarp(one of the disciples of Apostle John himself) 150AD, Justin Martyr e.t.c believe that made them to call Jesus God.

Mind you, these are early prominent Christian erlders which even your own Organization recognized their teachings and applaud.

A time is coming when I'll teach you people on this forum how Bible made distinguish between when Jesus was not part of creation and when He became part of creation.

Just like your organization admitted in their publication when they were trying to prove that "I and my father are one" isn't meant Jesus is God. it read "Well, Jesus is saying that he has powers that the Jews believe belong to God alone. For example, regarding the “sheep” he said: “I give them everlasting life,” which is something humans cannot do. (John 10:28 ) Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life; subtopic: one with the father, but not God, pg. 188 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/ministry-in-judea/not-equal-to-god/#?insight[search_id]=0605e742-3d9b-464e-a79f-0d0892d0847c&insight[search_result_index]=0

You can see your organization actually know that many things that Biblical writers applied to Jesus are actually what we know ONLY GOD POSSESES but in other to keep themselves confused the more they later said in the next text that "....The Jews are overlooking the fact that Jesus has openly admitted that he received authority from his Father"

Lastly, I asked you does it mean Jesus denied being God in John 10:30 or not? because you didn't answer it.

1) Pls stop the deceit & receive sense .John 1:2. "He was with God in the beginning.".
Emusan, U wanna claim that God Almighty was with Himself. How does it sound to your ears?


2) Micah 5:2 " But you.... whose origin (or beginning/ birth) are from of old,from ancient times".
Emusan, don't deceive & shortchange your self. "Birth/Beginning" are other words U can substitute for the word, "origin"? Pls insert it there.


3) U are being clever by half.
John 1:3. "THROUGH HIM all things were made; without him nothing was made that had been made" .
Jesus is a medium (he was "the craftsman" beside his Father ) deployed by Baba God Almighty to create all other things. (Personified as wisdom in Prov8:22-36)
Hebrew 1:2 "But in these last days he (Baba God ) has spoken to us by his Son ,whom he ( Baba God) APPOINTED heir of all things & THROUGH WHOM HE MADE THE UNIVERSE"
.
Jesus is the beginning of creation. He was created. Yes. Colos 1:13-17.
Rev3:14

4) Pls stop your lies against the truth.
Jesus received authority from his Father. He is the appointed heir that Baba God put into Office. Hebrew 1:2.
John17:1,2 " After Jesus said this..... For you granted him (Jesus) authority over all people that he (Jesus) might give eternal life to all those you have given him"


5) Jesus & his Father are one just as Jesus & his disciples are one.
John 17:11b" Holy Father, protect them... so that they may be one as we are one".
vs 21: "that all of them may be one, Father ,just as you are in me & I am in you".
In the same manner that husband & wife are one. "They are no longer two but one" Matt19:4-6.
Can two walk together except they agree? Amos 3:3.
Emusan, pls receive sense IJNA..

OneJ:



Primesky make I break am down for U....

(i) Bcause of sin ,Adam the father of all mankind lost the God's gift of eternal life (Romans5:12. 6:23). God restored it back to man thru Jesus ransom sacrifice. God sent Jesus the second Adam & gave him the title of "Eternal Father". Jesus is Eternal father of everyone who believe in him & exercise faith that he is the God sent Messiah.(1Cor15:45. John 3:16). Also, because Jesus is our Eternal Father, he has authority to resurrect the dead (restore eternal life )back to faithful mankind (John 5:24-29. Acts 24:15). A human father gives life to his offspring . The Eternal Father grants eternal life to faithful believers.


(ii) Primesky, why U no wan use your brain? Is the usage of word "father" or any compound word with "father" limited to Baba God?
Is Godfather a reference to the Almighty God? God?


(iii) Primesky said "tell us Mr OneJ is Jesus Christ a true God or not?".

Nairalanders,Jesus has provided the answer. in John 17:3."Now this is eternal life: That they may know you ,the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent".
Also ,see Matt16:13-17. John 20:30,31.


Primesky, did Jesus say he is "the only true God"?


(iv) Even sef , ntgreek.org wey U dey quote up and down done deny U finish..... https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

"....when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of English translation and understanding.....
However since (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Logos (Word) was not the same person as the Father God.."


(In other words, ntgreek.org admitted that " the word was a god" is very correct.
Una see am, ntgreek done agree say "the word was a god". Therefore,Jesus is not God).


Primesky, ntgreek.org ,your fellow Trinity peddlers done rubbish una doctrine finish.
Dem done destroy una Trinity lie lie forever.


(V) For the sole reason that John 1:1, Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22 have the same grammatical construction. Therefore, what is good for the gander is also good for the goose. To argue & deny "a god " in John 1:1c amounts to double standard & deceit to promote the trinity fallacy.




Primesky , I pray U receive sense &wisdom of understanding. IJNA.....

OneJ, no amount of twisting and mumbling will free you.
Your explanation for eternal Father is totally false. And please for once stop pretending like you don't know the father we're talking about. If Jesus becomes our eternal Father according to you, what then will the only true God according to you become?. What do we now call Him?. A senior father God? Or the father of our eternal Father?. Hahaha. Please answer me.

Tell me is Jesus Christ a true God?. I am not asking you if he is the only true God or not. Your bible said He is 'a god'. Now you've quoted a site, wait first, answer the question. This a god', What kind of God is he?. Is He a true God or not?.

Mr. OneJ, I told you plainly that I wasn't going to argue with you based on online site. Because we have biases on both sides, for me and for you. In the same site, I will bring out a point to support my opinion as well and that won't , especially when you're twisting and misinterpreting the words. One writer says what he believes another says what he believes. Now, given what is in both bible versions, which translation does not affect as it were, tell me something and you're trying to wriggle out.

In fact, in the above post of yours, you said Jesus is not God, please who is He?.

Primesky:


OneJ, no amount of twisting and mumbling will free you.
Your explanation for eternal Father is totally false. And please for once stop pretending like you don't know the father we're talking about. If Jesus becomes our eternal Father according to you, what then will the only true God according to you become?. What do we now call Him?. A senior father God? Or the father of our eternal Father?. Hahaha. Please answer me.

Tell me is Jesus Christ a true God?. I am not asking you if he is the only true God or not. Your bible said He is 'a god'. Now you've quoted a site, wait first, answer the question. This a god', What kind of God is he?. Is He a true God or not?.

Mr. OneJ, I told you plainly that I wasn't going to argue with you based on online site. Because we have biases on both sides, for me and for you. In the same site, I will bring out a point to support my opinion as well and that won't , especially when you're twisting and misinterpreting the words. One writer says what he believes another says what he believes. Now, given what is in both bible versions, which translation does not affect as it were, tell me something and you're trying to wriggle out.

In fact, in the above post of yours, you said Jesus is not God, please who is He?.

The website (ntgreek.com) U dey copy & paste have exposed your Trinity lie lie. Pls read again, wetin U copy & paste below::
"However, since it (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article ("the", it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God."
Bro, no be Arabic or French be that.
Na simple English.


John17:3,17 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you ,the only true God,and Jesus Christ,whom you have sent"
Vs 17: Sanctify them by the truth;your word is truth"
Jesus Christ our Messiah has revealed the truth. Therefore, he has provided a trustworthy and credible answer to your question.
BTW,between U & Jesus , who is more credible? If wetin Jesus talk for John 17:3,17 dey vex U, then quarrel with your Bible.


Your crooked twist & somersault responses proves beyond doubt that U are more confused than I had reckoned.



U don't have to accept or concur with the beliefs of JW, but resist the itch to malign Jehovah's name.
Shalom.

It's still evident that you're still beating around the bush.

OneJ:
1) Pls stop the deceit & receive sense .John 1:2. "He was with God in the beginning.".
Emusan, U wanna claim that God Almighty was with Himself. How does it sound to your ears?

Two personalities WERE together from beginning and the second was called THE ETERNAL LIFE, can ETERNAL be created?

Mind you one of those things that made the father God is that He is ETERNAL. Now, if the Bible says Jesus is also ETERNAL, what does that mean?

2) Micah 5:2 " But you.... whose origin (or beginning/ birth) are from of old,from ancient times".
Emusan, don't deceive & shortchange your self. "Birth/Beginning" are other words U can substitute for the word, "origin"? Pls insert it there.

Imagine, simple English is hard for you to comprehend here. Now let's even follow your own pattern, the verse says His BIRTH/BEGINNING is from ETERNITY. Does a created being come from ETERNITY?

Whereas, the Hebrew word in that verse is "<mowtsa'ah>" which is best describes as 'going forth' just as KJV put it. This best described as being in action from eternity.

3) U are being clever by half.
John 1:3. "THROUGH HIM all things were made; without him nothing was made that had been made" .
Jesus is a medium (he was "the craftsman" beside his Father ) deployed by Baba God Almighty to create all other things. (Personified as wisdom in Prov8:22-36)
Hebrew 1:2 "But in these last days he (Baba God ) has spoken to us by his Son ,whom he ( Baba God) APPOINTED heir of all things & THROUGH WHOM HE MADE THE UNIVERSE"

I laugh anytime you people try to use Prov 8 without noticing the implication on what you're claiming.

For your information, the context of prov 8 shows that it was the FATHER who was actually carrying out the creative activities not Wisdom.

If you're in doubt, check how it was written:
v26 - while as yet HE had not made the earth
v27 - when HE prepared the heavens...when HE set a compass...
v28 - When HE established the cloud...when HE strengthen the fountains e.t.c

The HE here, who is he? The father or Wisdom?

So the content of John 1:3 simply means NOTHING has been created pro to the time CREATION begins unless you want to tell us that Jesus is the one who created Himself.
.

Jesus is the beginning of creation. He was created. Yes. Colos 1:13-17.
Rev3:14

The very first thing we read in Col 1:17 is "He existed before ANYTHING else, and holds ALL CREATION together" did Jesus is the one holding himself?

Just as you interpret origin to be birth/beginning why can't you also look at the Greek words used in those verses whether it actually means CREATED?

But the question you're still dodging is, the BIBLE says Jesus is THE eternal life, can eternal life be created?

4) Pls stop your lies against the truth.
Jesus received authority from his Father. He is the appointed heir that Baba God put into Office. Hebrew 1:2.
John17:1,2 " After Jesus said this..... For you granted him (Jesus) authority over all people that he (Jesus) might give eternal life to all those you have given him"

You still don't want to learn.
When Jesus became part of the creations John 1:10, He became first born (preeminence) of creation, He was appointed heir of all things, He grew in wisdom and knowledge, He became first born among dead e.t.c

This was the very point the blessed Apostle Paul was addressing in the same Colossians 1:18 "...so that HE ALONE in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and preeminent]"- AMP

"...so that HE Himself will COME to have FIRST place in everything" - NASB

"...so He is FIRST in everything" - NLT

"...so that he might become the one who is first in all things; - NWT

Can you see that when Jesus became part of the creations He has to become FIRST.

5) Jesus & his Father are one just as Jesus & his disciples are one.
John 17:11b" Holy Father, protect them... so that they may be one as we are one".
vs 21: "that all of them may be one, Father ,just as you are in me & I am in you".
In the same manner that husband & wife are one. "They are no longer two but one" Matt19:4-6.
Can two walk together except they agree? Amos 3:3.
Emusan, pls receive sense IJNA..

Nobody asked you this. I only show you that even your organization admitted that Jesus posseses ALL THINGS man knows that makes a being to be God.

The Jews who listened to Jesus understood Him perfectly but you and your organization are just a tool in the hand of the Devil to manipulate the truth.

Imagine, if I tell you, OneJ you must respect me JUST AS you respect your Daddy...what do I mean by that?

OneJ:



The website (ntgreek.com) U dey copy & paste have exposed your Trinity lie lie. Pls read again, wetin U copy & paste below::
"However, since it (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article ("the", it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God."
Bro, no be Arabic or French be that.
Na simple English.


John17:3,17 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you ,the only true God,and Jesus Christ,whom you have sent"
Vs 17: Sanctify them by the truth;your word is truth"
Jesus Christ our Messiah has revealed the truth. Therefore, he has provided a trustworthy and credible answer to your question.
BTW,between U & Jesus , who is more credible? If wetin Jesus talk for John 17:3,17 dey vex U, then quarrel with your Bible.


Your crooked twist & somersault responses proves beyond doubt that U are more confused than I had reckoned.



U don't have to accept or concur with the beliefs of JW, but resist the itch to malign Jehovah's name.
Shalom.

Answer his question and stop beating around the bush.

Is Jesus Christ a true God or not since you agree he is a god?

I asked you question the other time and you purposely ignored it because you know you'll short yourself in the leg.

Did Jesus deny being God in John 10:33?

The reason I asked you is because your version translated it as "...although being a man, make yourself a god."

Now if what the Jews accused Jesus for is being "a god" while then did Jesus deny it? did Jesus didn't know that he is a god? or could it be that your version is what is faulty here?

Using this medium to ask people for help. I don't owe anyone anything, but please hear me out. Am in trouble with my mums account, she must not know what i have done. I borrowed money wit r account just to go for a job in Lagos. But I was scammed. Check the link please. All I ask is please for God sake please read the past. Am out of options, I have no choice pls.

https://www.nairaland.com/4615010/guys-pray-check-out#69373597

OneJ:



The website (ntgreek.com) U dey copy & paste have exposed your Trinity lie lie. Pls read again, wetin U copy & paste below::
"However, since it (John 1:1c) does not have the definite article ("the", it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God."
Bro, no be Arabic or French be that.
Na simple English.


John17:3,17 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you ,the only true God,and Jesus Christ,whom you have sent"
Vs 17: Sanctify them by the truth;your word is truth"
Jesus Christ our Messiah has revealed the truth. Therefore, he has provided a trustworthy and credible answer to your question.
BTW,between U & Jesus , who is more credible? If wetin Jesus talk for John 17:3,17 dey vex U, then quarrel with your Bible.


Your crooked twist & somersault responses proves beyond doubt that U are more confused than I had reckoned.



U don't have to accept or concur with the beliefs of JW, but resist the itch to malign Jehovah's name.
Shalom.

Hahaha... Why do you confuse yourself so much?. Must you lie to defend yourself always?. Liars go to hell whether you beleiyit or not. So do yourself a favour and repent.

In case you can't read clearly or understand. Here is a full page from the site you seem to have fallen in love with. The truth of what it says. This is an answer to the same question we're discussing.

Verse in Question: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

In answering your question, let me first note that understanding the Greek text of the New Testament is extremely important and necessary for a clear apprehension of what the writers of the New Testament meant as they wrote the letters and accounts that we now enjoy. One note of caution is needful because Greek, like every language, has its own nuances and ways of saying things that can lead to confusion or misunderstanding when looking at it from the perspective of an English (or foreign) reader. An excellent example of this is the phrase you asked about in John 1:1.

The Apparent Difference in Spelling

First of all, the same Greek word is used in both occurrences of the word "God" in John 1:1. This same word is used in many contexts, whether it refers to the Only True God or whether it is referring to a false god - such as a man-made god (1 Cor. 8:5) or Satan as the ‘god of this age’ (2 Cor. 4:4). The apparent differences in spelling between the word ‘God’ in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’ (‘theos’) and in other places, (even in the previous phrase, ‘and the Word was with God’ (‘theon’)) is due to inflection in the Greek language. Each Greek noun normally has 8 or 9 forms (cases & number) in which it can appear. (See my page on ‘Inflection’ and ‘Cases’ on the Web site). In the first instance in John 1:1 it is the object of preposition and thus is in the accusative case. In the phrase in question, it is in the nominative case (indicating the subject or predicate nominative - equal to the subject). But it is the same word for ‘God’, and in both phrases here indicates the One and Only True God. So the apparent difference is spelling is not because ‘theos’ is a different word than ‘theon’, but is a different form of the identical word.

The Lack of a Greek Definite Article

Another common confusion in John 1:1 comes from the fact that in Greek there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ (‘theos’) in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’. The confusion arises from an assumption that if there is no definite article in the Greek, then it must have an indefinite meaning and thus should be translated with the indefinite article "a". Based on this understanding, some argue that this phrase in John 1:1 should be translated "the word was a god," rather than "the word was God." It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article (‘the’), but does not have an indefinite article (‘a’ or ‘an’). In certain instances, when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of the English translation and understanding. But we cannot assume that this is always appropriate. Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words ‘the’ and ‘a’. In many instances in which English would not include the word ‘the’, the Greek text includes it. (We don’t see it in the English translations because it would sound non-sensible in our language.) (See Note 1, below.) And in many cases where the Greek omits the definite article, the English translation requires it to convey the correct meaning of the Greek. (See Note 2, below.) Therefore it cannot be assumed that if the definite article is absent, then an indefinite article should be inserted. (For a clear illustration of this, see an example of the use of the word ‘God’ and the definite article in John chapter one.) Furthermore, even though the Greek language does not have an ‘indefinite article’ like we think of in English, there is a way in Greek for the writer to indicate the indefinite idea and thus avoid confusion. This is done in Greek by using the Greek indefinite pronoun ‘tis’.

In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ in the phrase, ‘and the Word was God’. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word ‘God’ is meant to be ‘indefinite’, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word ‘God’ in John 1:1 (‘the Word was with God’) clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase (‘and the Word was God’) to refer to a ‘lesser’ god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this ‘indefinite pronoun’ (‘tis’) as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was ‘a certain god’, but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father.

(For a more thorough explanation of the function and use of the Greek article (and meaning of its absence), see ‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’, by Daniel Wallace. He includes fifty pages - entitled ‘The Article, Part I’ - which is a more complete treatment of the subject that many grammar books present and explains all the general uses of the article. He actually has a ‘Part II’ which discusses some special issues with the article. Fifteen pages of this second section apply directly to understanding this passage in John 1:1. It is highly recommended for those who really desire an honest and thorough understanding of this passage.)

The Predicate Coming Before the Subject

Also, this phrase in John 1:1 is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase 'predicate nominative'.) The subject of this clause is ‘the Word’ and the predicate is ‘God’. In Greek, the word ‘God’ comes before the word ‘Word’. According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word ‘God’ should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

The Context of All of the Apostle John’s Writings

It is also necessary to see this statement in context of the rest of John’s writings. When comparing this with other statements about who the person and nature of Jesus Christ really is, it adds to what is already made clear by the Greek grammar. See for instance: John 8:56-59 (cf. Exo. 3:13-14); 10:28-33; 14:6-11; 1 John 5:20; (also John 8:23; 3:12-13; 5:17-18). These verses also indicate that, in John’s understanding and thus the Bible’s clear statements, Jesus Christ is the same essence and nature as God the Father, but distinct in their person-hood.

Consulting with Other Well Respected Greek Scholars and Grammarians

For a further explanation and clarification about these items, it is helpful to consult with many of the well respected Greek scholars and expositors. Personally I have never come across any objective, well respected Greek grammarian that has come up with different conclusions that what has been presented here. Many of them go into much more detail than I have in these few short paragraphs. See for instance the writings of Daniel Wallace (‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’), A.T. Robertson (both his ‘Grammar’ and ‘Word Pictures’), R.C.H. Lenski (in his commentary on the Gospel of John), Henry Alford (‘Greek Testament’), J.A. Bengel (‘Word Studies), Albert Barnes (‘Barnes’ Notes’), B.F. Westcott, and F.L. Godet, (and many others).

Final Comment

Bethany, I hope this helps to answer your questions. Obviously you are asking about a very large topic that can only be touched upon in such a small answer. My answer here is not meant to argue some theological doctrine, but to point out how important it is to have a pure heart when seeking God in His revealed speaking (the Bible) and how much it helps to know the Greek language in helping to answer some very complicated questions. A little (and incomplete) knowledge of Greek can do more harm than good when people try to apply it beyond their scope of knowledge. I beg you to seek the Lord honestly and continue to love Him with your whole heart. 1 Corinthians 8:1b-3 says, ‘Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him’. Many questions that are beyond our human understanding will only be answered when we see Him face to face. But for now, we continue to love Him and seek Him with our whole heart. The rest is up to Him. Please let me know if I can be of further help or guidance.

For a more systematic answer to the person of Jesus Christ, being both God and man,
please see a paper I wrote here: The Unity of the Person of Jesus Christ, the God-man

For further information (and a somewhat more scholarly approach to this specific question)
please see James White's answer at: http://www.aomin.org/JOHN1_1.html.


Note 1: A literal translation of the end of John 1:12 in Greek reads: ‘…to those who believe into [the] his name.’ It makes our English translation sound awkward or non-sensible to include the definite article 'the’ before the words ‘his name’, even though it appears in Greek.


Note 2: Literally in Greek, John 1:2 says: ‘He was in beginning with God.’ Notice that in Greek there is no definite article before the word ‘beginning’. It makes sense to include the definite article ‘the’ in our English translation for the sake of clarity and English idiom. Thus, ‘He was in the beginning with God.’

https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

Mr. OneJ, can you be honest, truthful and sincere enough, go through the full document above. Read from a someone who knows the mechanism of the language. You always pick out point that suit you and throw away the rest. Then you come up here on nairaland like a child claiming what I don't know. Sites won't help you. You will fail again there despite the biases. Let's look at the bible.

You are saying Jesus Christ is not in fact God, and he's not a true God?. You better explain this passage below.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Who made these statements?.

Primesky:


Hmm... I pray that like Paul you will encounter God by yourself. There's no need arguing with you. What you Don't know is bigger than you. I will rather not leave you as you are, but I will be praying for you that you will come to the knowledge of Christ Jesus. This is the greatest revelation anybody can have. I earnestly pray you have it.

Whenever you pray for me, please don't forget to pray for your self too.

Primesky:


Hahaha... Why do you confuse yourself so much?. Must you lie to defend yourself always?. Liars go to hell whether you beleiyit or not. So do yourself a favour and repent.

In case you can't read clearly or understand. Here is a full page from the site you seem to have fallen in love with. The truth of what it says. This is an answer to the same question we're discussing.

Verse in Question: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

In answering your question, let me first note that understanding the Greek text of the New Testament is extremely important and necessary for a clear apprehension of what the writers of the New Testament meant as they wrote the letters and accounts that we now enjoy. One note of caution is needful because Greek, like every language, has its own nuances and ways of saying things that can lead to confusion or misunderstanding when looking at it from the perspective of an English (or foreign) reader. An excellent example of this is the phrase you asked about in John 1:1.

The Apparent Difference in Spelling

First of all, the same Greek word is used in both occurrences of the word "God" in John 1:1. This same word is used in many contexts, whether it refers to the Only True God or whether it is referring to a false god - such as a man-made god (1 Cor. 8:5) or Satan as the ‘god of this age’ (2 Cor. 4:4). The apparent differences in spelling between the word ‘God’ in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’ (‘theos’) and in other places, (even in the previous phrase, ‘and the Word was with God’ (‘theon’)) is due to inflection in the Greek language. Each Greek noun normally has 8 or 9 forms (cases & number) in which it can appear. (See my page on ‘Inflection’ and ‘Cases’ on the Web site). In the first instance in John 1:1 it is the object of preposition and thus is in the accusative case. In the phrase in question, it is in the nominative case (indicating the subject or predicate nominative - equal to the subject). But it is the same word for ‘God’, and in both phrases here indicates the One and Only True God. So the apparent difference is spelling is not because ‘theos’ is a different word than ‘theon’, but is a different form of the identical word.

The Lack of a Greek Definite Article

Another common confusion in John 1:1 comes from the fact that in Greek there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ (‘theos’) in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’. The confusion arises from an assumption that if there is no definite article in the Greek, then it must have an indefinite meaning and thus should be translated with the indefinite article "a". Based on this understanding, some argue that this phrase in John 1:1 should be translated "the word was a god," rather than "the word was God." It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article (‘the’), but does not have an indefinite article (‘a’ or ‘an’). In certain instances, when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of the English translation and understanding. But we cannot assume that this is always appropriate. Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words ‘the’ and ‘a’. In many instances in which English would not include the word ‘the’, the Greek text includes it. (We don’t see it in the English translations because it would sound non-sensible in our language.) (See Note 1, below.) And in many cases where the Greek omits the definite article, the English translation requires it to convey the correct meaning of the Greek. (See Note 2, below.) Therefore it cannot be assumed that if the definite article is absent, then an indefinite article should be inserted. (For a clear illustration of this, see an example of the use of the word ‘God’ and the definite article in John chapter one.) Furthermore, even though the Greek language does not have an ‘indefinite article’ like we think of in English, there is a way in Greek for the writer to indicate the indefinite idea and thus avoid confusion. This is done in Greek by using the Greek indefinite pronoun ‘tis’.

In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ in the phrase, ‘and the Word was God’. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word ‘God’ is meant to be ‘indefinite’, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word ‘God’ in John 1:1 (‘the Word was with God’) clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase (‘and the Word was God’) to refer to a ‘lesser’ god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this ‘indefinite pronoun’ (‘tis’) as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was ‘a certain god’, but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father.

(For a more thorough explanation of the function and use of the Greek article (and meaning of its absence), see ‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’, by Daniel Wallace. He includes fifty pages - entitled ‘The Article, Part I’ - which is a more complete treatment of the subject that many grammar books present and explains all the general uses of the article. He actually has a ‘Part II’ which discusses some special issues with the article. Fifteen pages of this second section apply directly to understanding this passage in John 1:1. It is highly recommended for those who really desire an honest and thorough understanding of this passage.)

The Predicate Coming Before the Subject

Also, this phrase in John 1:1 is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase 'predicate nominative'.) The subject of this clause is ‘the Word’ and the predicate is ‘God’. In Greek, the word ‘God’ comes before the word ‘Word’. According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word ‘God’ should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

The Context of All of the Apostle John’s Writings

It is also necessary to see this statement in context of the rest of John’s writings. When comparing this with other statements about who the person and nature of Jesus Christ really is, it adds to what is already made clear by the Greek grammar. See for instance: John 8:56-59 (cf. Exo. 3:13-14); 10:28-33; 14:6-11; 1 John 5:20; (also John 8:23; 3:12-13; 5:17-18). These verses also indicate that, in John’s understanding and thus the Bible’s clear statements, Jesus Christ is the same essence and nature as God the Father, but distinct in their person-hood.

Consulting with Other Well Respected Greek Scholars and Grammarians

For a further explanation and clarification about these items, it is helpful to consult with many of the well respected Greek scholars and expositors. Personally I have never come across any objective, well respected Greek grammarian that has come up with different conclusions that what has been presented here. Many of them go into much more detail than I have in these few short paragraphs. See for instance the writings of Daniel Wallace (‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’), A.T. Robertson (both his ‘Grammar’ and ‘Word Pictures’), R.C.H. Lenski (in his commentary on the Gospel of John), Henry Alford (‘Greek Testament’), J.A. Bengel (‘Word Studies), Albert Barnes (‘Barnes’ Notes’), B.F. Westcott, and F.L. Godet, (and many others).

Final Comment

Bethany, I hope this helps to answer your questions. Obviously you are asking about a very large topic that can only be touched upon in such a small answer. My answer here is not meant to argue some theological doctrine, but to point out how important it is to have a pure heart when seeking God in His revealed speaking (the Bible) and how much it helps to know the Greek language in helping to answer some very complicated questions. A little (and incomplete) knowledge of Greek can do more harm than good when people try to apply it beyond their scope of knowledge. I beg you to seek the Lord honestly and continue to love Him with your whole heart. 1 Corinthians 8:1b-3 says, ‘Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him’. Many questions that are beyond our human understanding will only be answered when we see Him face to face. But for now, we continue to love Him and seek Him with our whole heart. The rest is up to Him. Please let me know if I can be of further help or guidance.

For a more systematic answer to the person of Jesus Christ, being both God and man,
please see a paper I wrote here: The Unity of the Person of Jesus Christ, the God-man

For further information (and a somewhat more scholarly approach to this specific question)
please see James White's answer at: http://www.aomin.org/JOHN1_1.html.


Note 1: A literal translation of the end of John 1:12 in Greek reads: ‘…to those who believe into [the] his name.’ It makes our English translation sound awkward or non-sensible to include the definite article 'the’ before the words ‘his name’, even though it appears in Greek.


Note 2: Literally in Greek, John 1:2 says: ‘He was in beginning with God.’ Notice that in Greek there is no definite article before the word ‘beginning’. It makes sense to include the definite article ‘the’ in our English translation for the sake of clarity and English idiom. Thus, ‘He was in the beginning with God.’

https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

Mr. OneJ, can you be honest, truthful and sincere enough, go through the full document above. Read from a someone who knows the mechanism of the language. You always pick out point that suit you and throw away the rest. Then you come up here on nairaland like a child claiming what I don't know. Sites won't help you. You will fail again there despite the biases. Let's look at the bible.

You are saying Jesus Christ is not in fact God, and he's not a true God?. You better explain this passage below.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Who made these statements?.

At Rev21:6 & 22:13 both. refer exclusively to God Almighty, not to Jesus Christ. Jesus & Almighty God are two distinct entities.
(1 Cor15:24,28. John 14:1. 17:1-3). Your Trinitarian website ntgreek.com has also confirmed it that Jesus "is not the Father God"
Pls don't get it twisted.




Do U even understand what U copy & paste above? That your aomin.org copy & paste is irrelevant here. Why?
Because the definite article ("the" is very common in Greek. No one is contesting that.
The bone of contention is should indefinite article ("a" be used in John 1:1? ntgreek.com says "it can not just be assumed" that indefinite article be placed there because of their doctrinal bias .

Ntgreek .com's arguement is weak& faulty because every other verse with similar Greek grammatical construction (Acts12:22. 28:6) with John 1:1 has ( "a god" there.
What is good for the gander is also good for the goose. (Hausa man say sell me as U sell my broda. Wetin una give Acts 28:6. 12:22, naim John 1:1 deserve. If U no agree, U done do 419 for there).




Does John 1:1 mean that Jesus is God?

Ntgreek says " However, since (John 1:1c) does not have the indefinite article , it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God".


Them say Jesus no be God.


Primesky , why U dey vex & dey lie lie when U see the truth stark naked before your very eyes?

OneJ:




At Rev21:6 & 22:13 both. refer exclusively to God Almighty, not to Jesus Christ. Jesus & Almighty God are two distinct entities.
(1 Cor15:24,28. John 14:1. 17:1-3). Your Trinitarian website ntgreek.com has also confirmed it that Jesus "is not the Father God"
Pls don't get it twisted.




Do U even understand what U copy & paste above? That your aomin.org copy & paste is irrelevant here. Why?
Because the definite article ("the" is very common in Greek. No one is contesting that.
The bone of contention is should indefinite article ("a" be used in John 1:1? ntgreek.com says "it can not just be assumed" that indefinite article be placed there because of their doctrinal bias .

Ntgreek .com's arguement is weak& faulty because every other verse with similar Greek grammatical construction (Acts12:22. 28:6) with John 1:1 has ( "a god" there.
What is good for the gander is also good for the goose. (Hausa man say sell me as U sell my broda. Wetin una give Acts 28:6. 12:22, naim John 1:1 deserve. If U no agree, U done do 419 for there).




Does John 1:1 mean that Jesus is God?

Ntgreek says " However, since (John 1:1c) does not have the indefinite article , it does indicate that this Word was not the same person as the Father God".


Them say Jesus no be God.


Primesky , why U dey vex & dey lie lie when U see the truth stark naked before your very eyes?

Hahaha... Kai! OneJ, you're so funny. I've been laughing out loud since. So now, the site is faulty, right? Because it has exposed the reality to you. Why do you keep holding on to a faulty doctrine?.

I suggest you carefully read the full document above again.

Aaah OneJ!, see, truth cannot be hidden or destroyed.

Read these below and try to tell yourself the truth for once. Jesus is not God the father, but you can't separate Him from God the Father. We have one God manifesting in three personalities. So, we have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are one and the same. If you can't understand the relationship between ice, vapour and water, then you can't understand it. Is ice water?, is vapour water?, yet they are one and the same, having similar properties, but playing different roles. Please understand.

Now carefully read the passages below and see who is talking.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Is that difficult to see?. Now let's see the preceding chapters and verses and establish who is actually speaking.

Revelation 1:10 [b]I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;[/b]

Are you still going to argue about who is speaking?. This is Jesus Christ speaking here. And He says 'I am alpha and omega, the first and the last'. Tell me, according to you, Jesus Christ is a lesser God, how then does He claim the position and title of God?.

Don't forget the same thing played out in Isaiah chapter 9:6 where He was called the everlasting Father.

Again, the scriptures made it clear that Jesus is one with God. He is the visible image of God the Father. In other words, if you want to see God, look at Jesus Christ. That's why Jesus said to Philip, that whoever has seen Him, has seen the Father!.

Please stop believing in a lie.

God is one. He manifests Himself in three personalities.

God the Father - the Supreme head.

God the Son - the express image and love of God personified.

God the Holy Spirit - The carrier of God's presence and power.

But they are one and the same. Just as ice and vapour falls back to water the head or parent state, so it is here.

budaatum:

Whenever you pray for me, please don't forget to pray for your self too.

Always!.

We all know that The Bible is understood in varying degree. The Inspiration of God for Understanding comes to us in varying Precision. I will say, there are some of the current Apostles that know The Bible more and have better Inspiration than Peter, James, John and even Paul. The Scripture, in Summary, is "Worship God" and He alone can instruct, direct and discern you in The Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.