TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks Mr jokerr, the evidence of HIS existence is written everywhere but you only need one of HIS Witnesses to help you SEE it with your third eye (the power of reasoning in you)! That's what HE gave you as one of the intelligent Creatures made in HIS image. With or Without any WRITTEN documents a Witness of Jehovah can help you to grasp HIS mightiness! Just with few words of discuss in DEEP thoughts,the wisdom HE has given to HIS Witnesses so don't think we must read the Bible for you to understand,The Bible is just to unite those who knew HIM so that they can do things in common,but as for the knowledge it's boldly WRITTEN all over you! .

Are you yoruba?... Pls answer, I have a follow up question..

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks Mr jokerr, the evidence of HIS existence is written everywhere but you only need one of HIS Witnesses to help you SEE it with your third eye (the power of reasoning in you)! That's what HE gave you as one of the intelligent Creatures made in HIS image. With or Without any WRITTEN documents a Witness of Jehovah can help you to grasp HIS mightiness! Just with few words of discuss in DEEP thoughts,the wisdom HE has given to HIS Witnesses so don't think we must read the Bible for you to understand,The Bible is just to unite those who knew HIM so that they can do things in common,but as for the knowledge it's boldly WRITTEN all over you! .

lol, u Re still not giving me any evidence, how u expect to have evidence about something which u urself claim has no written evidence.

TATIME:
Just with few words of discuss in DEEP thoughts

This is called the act of talking to oneself...

Emusan:


See another one coming from the suppose most intelligent person

Your post says "PROVE of EXISTENCE" but here you change it to "BELIEVE IN" are they the same


Christians acknowledge the existence of Satan, does it mean they BELIEVE IN Satan?

Well, you didn't prove their non-existence but you accepted their existence, what then is your issue?

OLAADEGBU:


We are talking about the ultimate Creator here, the Infinite, Uncreated Creator.

And there are lesser gods aka demons. Again this is different from African traditional religious pantheons how?

jokerr:
lol, u Re still not giving me any evidence, how u expect to have evidence about something which u urself claim has no written evidence.

You yourself are a PERFECT evidence that surpasses any WRITTEN form! Please let's start from one step. You're human, how do you think our society should be well organized so that we can coexist in common environs in peace and security?

LordReed:


Well, you didn't prove their non-existence but you accepted their existence, what then is your issue?

Does ACCEPTING their EXISTENCE mean I BELIEVE IN THEM?

sonmvayina:


Are you yoruba?... Pls answer, I have a follow up question..

I don't belong to any particular race as one of Jehovah's Witnesses so that's my heritage my beliefs my conviction!

Emusan:


Does ACCEPTING their EXISTENCE mean I BELIEVE IN THEM?

When you ask someone "Do you believe in God?" are you not asking if they accept his existence?

TATIME:
You yourself are a PERFECT evidence that surpasses any WRITTEN form! Please let's start from step. You're human, how do you think our society should be well organized so that we can coexist in common environs in peace and security?

The last time I checked everyone had common sense and they know wat is good and bad. Quick question, all the killings happening today is it not as a result of religious diversity?, if u check d most peaceful and progressive countries today atheist are a majority. Or are u trying to say dat without religion u will go about raping girls and robbing people? Dats bullshit. With all d religions we have in Nigeria is there peace, instead d country is deteriorating, Killings everywhere, hunger, poverty, diversion of funds.
Take a look at our leaders don't dey belong to one religious group or the other but they still divert funds meant for d betterment of d society to their pockets. So don't tell me dat without religion der won't be peace and security...

jokerr:
The last time I checked everyone had common sense and they know wat is good and bad. Quick question, all the killings happening today is it not as a result of religious diversity?, if u check d most peaceful and progressive countries today atheist are a majority. Or are u trying to say dat without religion u will go about raping girls and robbing people? Dats bullshit. With all d religions we have in Nigeria is there peace, instead d country is deteriorating, Killings everywhere, hunger, poverty, diversion of funds.
Take a look at our leaders don't dey belong to one religious group or the other but they still divert funds meant for d betterment of d society to their pockets. So don't tell me dat without religion der won't be peace and security...

Hmmmmmmmmmm Mr jokerr Please have some patience! The thread says "Can atheists prove God does not exist?" and my question to you is simple "How do you think the human society could be well organized so that we can coexist in common environs in peace and security?" I never mentioned "Religion" So that's another topic!

With discuss like this, we can excommunicate evil,repudiate superstitions,elevate the narratives of reason ,develop our faculties and evolve mentally...if we must disagree let it be on issues,theories and policies which are not insidious .

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm Mr jokerr Please have some patience! The thread says "Can atheists prove God does not exist?" and my question to you is simple "How do you think the human society could be well organized so that we can coexist in common environs in peace and security?" I never mentioned "Religion" So that's another topic!

Common sense is not common -Voltaire

jokerr:
The last time I checked everyone had common sense and they know wat is good and bad. Quick question, all the killings happening today is it not as a result of religious diversity?, if u check d most peaceful and progressive countries today atheist are a majority. Or are u trying to say dat without religion u will go about raping girls and robbing people? Dats bullshit. With all d religions we have in Nigeria is there peace, instead d country is deteriorating, Killings everywhere, hunger, poverty, diversion of funds.
Take a look at our leaders don't dey belong to one religious group or the other but they still divert funds meant for d betterment of d society to their pockets. So don't tell me dat without religion der won't be peace and security...

eventtinz:
Common sense is not common -Voltaire

It's misappropriation of words. When something is common then it should be easily accessible but in reality what the human society needs is the "uncommon sense" to live in peace and security. That's where the thought of a "God of orderliness" comes in.

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm Mr jokerr Please have some patience! The thread says "Can atheists prove God does not exist?" and my question to you is simple "How do you think the human society could be well organized so that we can coexist in common environs in peace and security?" I never mentioned "Religion" So that's another topic!

Really? .. I replied based on religious grounds cuz dis is a religious thread...
BTW d world can still function d same way its functioning all u need do is remove religion, cuz dats one of d main causes of fights and disarray... Besides its common sense for u to know how to coexist with others, just like a bee knows its to protect d queen bee at all cost, nobody tells d bee, it knows..

jokerr:
Really? .. I replied based on religious grounds cuz dis is a religious thread...
BTW d world can still function d same way its functioning all u need do is remove religion, cuz dats one of d main causes of fights and disarray... Besides its common sense for u to know how to coexist with others, just like a bee knows its to protect d queen bee at all cost, nobody tells d bee, it knows..

Good! example of the bee is just perfect. The bees are protecting their territory and the queen that's why they're harmed for battle and we humans as intelligent Creatures (unlike the bees that are existing on INSTINCT) also wants to protect one thing or the other based on the value placed.So do you think humans can live without WARS, since there is always struggle for territories?

sonmvayina:


It is only a bigger Demon that will create demons to torment the creatures he claims to love... And still blame them for their actions...

Get sense... Wisdom is the greatest property to possess, you just don't have any..
Just like the advice God gave to prophet Hosea
"go and marry a prosti.tute

You are no longer an atheist but continue.

eventtinz:


Creation could not have made itself is not common sense.We actually know some things through science about the beginning and end of time with evidence...If you argue that the building must have a builder be aware that you have entered an infinite realm where you will be asked who then built the builder and then the builders builder and so on... The atheist position is that ,no one should claim to know through the divine because such knowledge is usually false after scientific observations

Common sense is not common nowadays. God is the infinite uncreated Creator. QED.

eventtinz:


Which is more plausible that one god created all humans...or different humans created different gods at different times...you know the answer.

I am talking about the infinite, uncreated Creator and not your minion gods.

I am not here to quote voltaire or insult your intellect ,I am just like you seeking answers and unwilling to accept illogical reasoning...It is not a contest of wit.
I just feel if the creator can be uncreated ...then the universe can also be uncreated in that light.Sincerely if you can convince me ...I am open to creationism.

OLAADEGBU:


Common sense is not common nowadays. God is the infinite uncreated Creator. QED.

LordReed:


Ahh, ok so you believe there is a central god and a pantheon of gods. You are different from African tradition how again?

There is only One infinite, uncreated God.

jokerr:


still proves nothing.. Just face the fact that u don't have any evidence.

You are buried in the evidence and you still can't see it.

sonmvayina:


Ok.. Thanks.. I have done that and the name I got was CHINEKE.. is that who you are referring to?

What are his attributes?

There is no such thing ...the statement you have presented is in itself ridden with infinite contradictions .

OLAADEGBU:


I am talking about the infinite, uncreated Creator and not your minion gods.

eventtinz:


I am not here to quote voltaire or insult your intellect ,I am just like you seeking answers and unwilling to accept illogical reasoning...It is not a contest of wit.
I just feel if the creator can be uncreated ...then the universe can also be uncreated in that light.Sincerely if you can convince me ...I am open to creationism.

God is a Spirit, not created.

Wel...l sincerely to argue reasonably ,it is possible that there is one uncreated creator...however ,no one can claim to know the attributes of this being .

eventtinz:


Wel...l sincerely to argue reasonably ,it is possible that there is one uncreated creator...however ,no one can claim to know the attributes of this being .

If you sincerely want to argue reasonably then consider the following three possibilities where the universe can come from and see how the conclusion leads to Genesis 1:1.

(1). The universe created itself; or

(2). The universe has always existed, or

(3). The universe was created.

1. The universe created itself:

Can something create itself? Can nothing create something? The answer to these is an absolute No. We all know that something cannot create itself and nothing can't create something. From Latin we have the phrase "ex nihilo, nihil fit" meaning "from nothing, nothing comes." It also violates the law of cause and effect, that says for every effect there must be a cause. The effect can't be greater than the cause and nothing cannot be greater than something. Therefore, based on the laws of science and logic, the universe couldn't have created itself. That leaves us with options 2 and 3.

2. The univese has always existed:

Lets go to the 2nd law of thermodynamics that basically teaches that "the whole universe is losing usable energy for doing usable work." This means that the usable energy in this universe is wearing down. The universe as a whole is losing energy. In other words, molecules as a whole are slowing down.

Therefore, if this universe was eternal we will be in what is called a "virtual heat death." This means that there will be virtually no molecular movement. Everything would have lost its available heat energy for doing work. Therefore, the universe cannot be eternal, it must have had a beginning. The theory that the universe has always existed or is eternal has to be false based on the law of science and logic, another speculation gone with the air. This leaves us with only one possibility based on science. Which is that:

3. The universe was created:

"In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1

Science confirms the biblical verse that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth as we have just shown. With this verse we see that God is outside time. He is eternal, with no beginning or end. He also knows all things, being infinitely intelligent. To recognise His handiwork, you should be able to know how to recognise the evidence of the works of His intelligence. This is simple.

When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I can't see him, hear him, touch, smell or taste him. The evidence of a builder is the building I'm looking at. In other words, the building is the proof positive that there was a builder. The building is the product of the intelligence of the builder. Living things are also evidence of design. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that if man's highly intelligent brain designed the computer, then the human brain was also the product of design?

There is nothing illogical or unscientific about an Eternal Being who has always existed. Nobody created the infinite God. He is the Self-Existent One, the great "I AM THAT I AM" of the Bible. He is outside time because He created time. Everything that has a beginning requires a cause. The universe has a beginning and thus requires a cause. But the almighty God has no beginning since He is beyond time. Therefore, the almighty God does not need a cause.

OLAADEGBU:


There is only One infinite, uncreated God.

Are you confused? You already answered this before.

I will not insult you intelligence by assuming you do not really believe this .

OLAADEGBU:


You are no longer an atheist but continue.

akeensbussy:
Religion is a Scam....
The bible says men fall into sin when Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit....Anybody born after that were born sinners.
Why is it that when Jesus Christ was crucify for the sin men, anybody born after that were not saint? if the death of Jesus Christ is for remission of sin..then automatically, everybody on earth today should be saint... not sinner again.
if all of us are still born sinner, what it is the purpose of the death of Jesus to appeal God?
Religion is a scam indeed.

The sacrifice is for the salvation of humanity, however, the blood speaks only for those who confess and believe in Christ Jesus!

Do you believe in Christ? If yes, then surrender to him, get baptised and let his blood speak for you; that all a Christian needs!

OLAADEGBU:


If you sincerely want to argue reasonably then consider the following three possibilities where the universe can come from and see how the conclusion leads to Genesis 1:1.

(1). The universe created itself; or

(2). The universe has always existed, or

(3). The universe was created.

1. The universe created itself:

Can something create itself? Can nothing create something? The answer to these is an absolute No. We all know that something cannot create itself and nothing can't create something. From Latin we have the phrase "ex nihilo, nihil fit" meaning "from nothing, nothing comes." It also violates the law of cause and effect, that says for every effect there must be a cause. The effect can't be greater than the cause and nothing cannot be greater than something. Therefore, based on the laws of science and logic, the universe couldn't have created itself. That leaves us with options 2 and 3.

You have negated your claims with your first assertion...You affirmed that god was not caused,hence came from nothing .so something can come from nothing ...if we must use this argument you cannot exclude god from the list of being as you will commit fallacy of special pleading.If you see a painting,you will naturally assume that someone drew it...i recently watched a meaningful painting done by an elephant.

2. The univese has always existed:

Lets go to the 2nd law of thermodynamics that basically teaches that "the whole universe is losing usable energy for doing usable work." This means that the usable energy in this universe is wearing down. The universe as a whole is losing energy. In other words, molecules as a whole are slowing down.

Therefore, if this universe was eternal we will be in what is called a "virtual heat death." This means that there will be virtually no molecular movement. Everything would have lost its available heat energy for doing work. Therefore, the universe cannot be eternal, it must have had a beginning. The theory that the universe has always existed or is eternal has to be false based on the law of science and logic, another speculation gone with the air. This leaves us with only one possibility based on science. Which is that:

Your knowledge of science seem to be profound however cherry picked...The age of the universe is not a valid argument ,this sphere is unknown...Science has also speculated the period our star,the sun will burn out ...which will be the end


3. The universe was created:

"In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1

Science confirms the biblical verse that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth as we have just shown. With this verse we see that God is outside time. He is eternal, with no beginning or end. He also knows all things, being infinitely intelligent. To recognise His handiwork, you should be able to know how to recognise the evidence of the works of His intelligence. This is simple.

The work is not infinitely intelligent...

When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I can't see him, hear him, touch, smell or taste him. The evidence of a builder is the building I'm looking at. In other words, the building is the proof positive that there was a builder. The building is the product of the intelligence of the builder. Living things are also evidence of design. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that if man's highly intelligent brain designed the computer, then the human brain was also the product of design?

Humans evolved. About the metaphorical builder and the building ...its solipsism to eliminate every other cause .

There is nothing illogical or unscientific about an Eternal Being who has always existed. Nobody created the infinite God. He is the Self-Existent One, the great "I AM THAT I AM" of the Bible. He is outside time because He created time. Everything that has a beginning requires a cause. The universe has a beginning and thus requires a cause. But the almighty God has no beginning since He is beyond time. Therefore, the almighty God does not need a cause.

Yes like i mentioned before...this is a presentable argument,however ,its not valid .It is thinkable but it leaves us with an empty sack ...i have mentioned before that if a being can be outside of time so can the universe...which gives us relativism.My problem again with this argument people claim to know the thoughts of this being,claim to be made in its image(which leaves us with an imaginary old man in the sky)

The discuss of Atheism is not to certainly claim that there is no god,but to critic does who claim they know things without evidence... People kill and die for this believes ,and there are so many of them ...each and everyone true in the mind of the believer and each and everyone wrong in the mind of its non-believers.You as a christian certainly are unbeliever to the other 10,000 gods out there.

it was nice having this discussion.However,if you must keep your faith i will advice you stop asking questions and trying to defend it(just believe)...there is no justifiable claims to it.if there is then it will no longer be called faith(Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Hebrews 11.1)I know because i was ones called a pastor.

OLAADEGBU:


You are buried in the evidence and you still can't see it.

I will appreciate it if u can list a few.