we are have been expecting the coming of Jesus ever before the birth of my daddy, even till today, many things are contrary to the coming of Jesus, many hope have been drown.
the coming of Jesus Christ means the end of this race and beginning of anti-Christ regime
so is JESUS CHRIST COMING BACK

Yes, Jesus Christ is coming back.

One of the reasons that Jesus Christ is coming back is "to destroy those who destroy the earth".

Rev 11:17 saying, We thank You, O Lord God Almighty, who are, and who was, and who is coming, because You took Your great power and reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were full of wrath, and Your wrath came, and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth.

This reason for Jesus coming comforts me greatly. I have a lot of anger and hatred towards the wicked people of this world who destroy people, the environment, family's all in the name of making mammon. I will rejoice with the angels when this age is over.

Is Jesus Coming Back Again?

No. It is appointed for man to die once; after that, no judgement.

THIS IS WHAT I EXCRATED FROM A www.JewsforJudaism.org


"In Revelation 22:12 (see also verse 20), Jesus declares, "I am coming quickly" to render judgment on mankind.

To God, a thousand years is like an earthly day that has already passed (Psalms 90:4). It is a fleeting moment for God relates to the concept of time in eternal terms. Man could not relate to a day of a thousand years; but he can relate to one of twenty-four hours. As a result, "quickly" used as a promised time interval, must be understood in its simplest earthly definition as occurring in the near future otherwise it is used deceptively. Jesus did not come back "quickly," as promised, to judge mankind. The time has long past that one can claim Jesus will come back "quickly." Thus, what we have in Revelation 22:20 is a false prophecy."

2 Pet. 3:9 -- The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Most Jews who take the reformed Judaistic view or interpretation of Scripture will deny just about anything. So it is no wonder that one finds such statements as the one you quoted. In like manner, the Bible speaks of something that would happen "quickly" following the disobedience of the Jews:

Deut. 28:20 -- "The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me."

Question: did the Jews not forake God in wicked doings? And did He not make good His warning to them? If He did, was Deut. 28:20 a failed prophecy because the "quickly" did not happen as man counts quickly??

Anyone who has a good knowledge of Biblical history, especially of the Jews, should know that the word "quickly" does not mean the same thing as instantaneous even in Jewish understanding. Rev. 22:20 stands as it is; and Jews who deny that can be forgiven for not even understanding the meaning of the same word "quickly" in their own Scripture.

pilgrim.1:

2 Pet. 3:9 -- The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Most Jews who take the reformed Judaistic view or interpretation of Scripture will deny just about anything. So it is no wonder that one finds such statements as the one you quoted. In like manner, the Bible speaks of something that would happen "quickly" following the disobedience of the Jews:

Deut. 28:20 -- "The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me."

Question: did the Jews not forake God in wicked doings? And did He not make good His warning to them? If He did, was Deut. 28:20 a failed prophecy because the "quickly" did not happen as man counts quickly??

Anyone who has a good knowledge of Biblical history, especially of the Jews, should know that the word "quickly" does not mean the same thing as instantaneous even in Jewish understanding. Rev. 22:20 stands as it is; and Jews who deny that can be forgiven for not even understanding the meaning of the same word "quickly" in their own Scripture.

The trouble with practising prophecy is you can't get it alll right. Then again, who needs to get it all right when apologists can postdict and change the definitions of choice words. Ah! Michel de Nostredame did pick the right profession afterall.

Anyway, when you remember there were other prophecies like:

Matthew 16
8 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom


and:

Matthew 24
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


It sort of becomes a bit more difficult to honestly use the tired the word doesn't mean what it usually does argument - in my opinion.

@topic, Yes He is coming back. Do not lose heart, (read 1st and 2nd Thesalonians)

@doubters,
it is no wonder that some people will refuse to heed the TRUTH. the same bible you quoted from above has explained in 2Pet.3.9 that 'God is not slack in fulfilling his promise',  but of course you have hardened your heart and refuse to heed

Is it not the same GOd who prophesised the first coming of Christ as the Messiah? Sure He is. And definitely He will fulfil His word in His time. No one knows the day or the hour, but one thing we know, we are not in the dark lest the Day come upon us as a surprise. but for those in the dark,,,,,He will come as a theif in the night (ie unexpectedly)

Many things have been prophesised to take place first before He comes. they have already started taking place, first the jews were restored to Isreal, now we see before our eyes as many of the other prophesies in Matt 24 and other scriptures are being fulfilled.

And of course we say again with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ: "Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to His work"
Blessed are those who long for His appearing. Come Lord Jesus!!

He is coming back, sooner than you think.He says the GOSPEL must be preached to the ends of the earth before He returns.Also the signs of the end times are very evident.Remember a thousand years in our sight are like an evening gone to God.Get ready, so we'l meet Him in the skies at His return

yes,he is coming back for the saints alone,the sinners are condemned

ricadelide:

@doubters,
it is no wonder that some people will refuse to heed the TRUTH. the same bible you quoted from above has explained in 2Pet.3.9 that 'God is not slack in fulfilling his promise', but of course you have hardened your heart and refuse to heed

You say hardening of heart, I say honesty.

Is it not the same GOd who prophesised the first coming of Christ as the Messiah? Sure He is.

I'm pretty certain that no God prophesied the coming of any Christs or Messiahs.

And definitely He will fulfil His word in His time. No one knows the day or the hour, but one thing we know, we are not in the dark lest the Day come upon us as a surprise. but for those in the dark,,,,,He will come as a theif in the night (ie unexpectedly)

Many things have been prophesised to take place first before He comes. they have already started taking place, first the jews were restored to Isreal, now we see before our eyes as many of the other prophesies in Matt 24 and other scriptures are being fulfilled.

Dude, take up with the people that decided to break the rules of prophesying (never even give a hint of exactness. That way, given enough time, future generations can adapt your words to their time). They decided to include things like: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." not knowing that not only would their generation pass away, but hundreds would as well. Just as well they aren't aware, eh?

KAG:

I'm pretty certain that no God prophesied the coming of any Christs or Messiahs.

lol, i'm 'pretty certain' that you either don't know what you're saying or you don't want to acknowledge the truth. you would have made a better argument by saying (like the jews claim) that the christ has not come - which, of course, is untrue. Rather than making an uninformed statement that no God prophesied the 'coming of any Christ'. maybe we're talking about different 'gods' but I am talking about the Judeo-Christian GOd.
the coming of the messiah has been prophesied all through the jewish old testament - even since the incidence of the fall. i don't really have time now to list you all the scriptures; if you need it i can do that later.
Christ indeed came in fulfilment of prophesy Matt 1:22-23

KAG:

Dude, take up with the people that decided to break the rules of prophesying (never even give a hint of exactness. That way, given enough time, future generations can adapt your words to their time). They decided to include things like: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." not knowing that not only would their generation pass away, but hundreds would as well. Just as well they aren't aware, eh?

Errrh,  sorry but may i let you know that you don't have any idea what that verse was talking about? If you don't believe that the Scriptures are the inspired word of God and are infallible, it would surprise no one that you can't understand it and would interpret it to mean something else. So please next time don't even try.

Matt. 16.28, Mk. 9:1, Luke 9.27
in the first verse it says, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" In all the three books where this is quoted, it is in the context of transfiguration. the next verse He takes 3 of them and takes them up to a mountain and he is transfigured before them showing them his glory. Peter later refers to this in 2Pet.1.16-18
"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty" (emphasis mine). This experience was a type of his second coming as they witnessed his majesty and glory.
However the greater meaning of the verse is seen in the references in Mark and Luke where it becomes clear that he was referring to the setting up of His Kingdom on earth when the Holy Spirit was poured out after the ressurection. This took place on pentecost and by God's grace the kingdom has been growing ever since. The last time i checked some 11 of them witnessed that event (except for Judas)

Matt 24:32-34
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away
its very clear - when this verse is read in context - what it means. when the signs of the fig tree appear, you can tell what is about to happen ie that summer is near. Likewise, when you begin to see the signs of the last days you can tell that His coming is near. Thus, the generation that sees these signs take place will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.

May GOd open your eyes so that you can know the TRUTH. Jesus died to save you from your sins and yourself. God bless.

KAG:

Dude, take up with the people that decided to break the rules of prophesying (never even give a hint of exactness. That way, given enough time, future generations can adapt your words to their time). They decided to include things like: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." not knowing that not only would their generation pass away, but hundreds would as well. Just as well they aren't aware, eh?

men, you have no clue. so you think some people sat down and decided on what to include and not include so future generatios can 'adapt your words to their time'!!??!
and please, there is a lot of 'exactness' in Biblical prophecy. in fact, many times so exact that the odds of them happening are at best impossible. the Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures was not trying to be 'safe' when the old testament prophecies were made. Cheers and i really hope and pray you find Him one day.

ricadelide:

lol, i'm 'pretty certain' that you either don't know what you're saying or you don't want to acknowledge the truth. you would have made a better argument by saying (like the jews claim) that the christ has not come - which, of course, is untrue.

Why is the opinion of the Jews on the matter of the messiah untrue? They've a better argument than Christians in that they can show that the Christian christ did not fulfill the many prophecies required of him - many Christians accept that but dubiously claim he'll fulfill them at some later date, when he returns.

Rather than making an uninformed statement that no God prophesied the 'coming of any Christ'. maybe we're talking about different 'gods' but I am talking about the Judeo-Christian GOd.
the coming of the messiah has been prophesied all through the jewish old testament - even since the incidence of the fall. i don't really have time now to list you all the scriptures; if you need it i can do that later.

Okay, show me where the Christian God prophesied a messiah and how it can be verified. Feel free to list the scriptures of the coming of the messiah.

Christ indeed came in fulfilment of prophesy Matt 1:22-23

Well, that's one person that alledgedly tried to claim the title. Didn't do he was meant to though.

Errrh, sorry but may i let you know that you don't have any idea what that verse was talking about? If you don't believe that the Scriptures are the inspired word of God and are infallible, it would surprise no one that you can't understand it and would interpret it to mean something else. So please next time don't even try.

Don't be silly, understanding th Bible has little to do with believeing it is inspired and infallible (which it isn't as a cursory read through the Bible and comparing it with reality should show).

Matt. 16.28, Mk. 9:1, Luke 9.27
in the first verse it says, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" In all the three books where this is quoted, it is in the context of transfiguration. the next verse He takes 3 of them and takes them up to a mountain and he is transfigured before them showing them his glory. Peter later refers to this in 2Pet.1.16-18

"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty" (emphasis mine). This experience was a type of his second coming as they witnessed his majesty and glory.
However the greater meaning of the verse is seen in the references in Mark and Luke where it becomes clear that he was referring to the setting up of His Kingdom on earth when the Holy Spirit was poured out after the ressurection. This took place on pentecost and by God's grace the kingdom has been growing ever since. The last time i checked some 11 of them witnessed that event (except for Judas)

Speaking about contexts, only Mark and Luke set it in a transfiguration context. Matthew does not.

See:

27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

In context, it's apparent that Matthew's intended meaning differs significantly from the others (what's new?). In Matthew we see that rather than a leaving the author has Jesus coming back: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory" and "before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Matt 24:32-34
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away
its very clear - when this verse is read in context - what it means. when the signs of the fig tree appear, you can tell what is about to happen ie that summer is near. Likewise, when you begin to see the signs of the last days you can tell that His coming is near. Thus, the generation that sees these signs take place will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.

Again, speaking about contexts, the entire chapter, read and accepted in context disagrees with your interpretation. First, the chapter tells us who Jesus was talking to: "3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said," That establishes Jesus' subject.

Second, their question and Jesus' reply in context show that Jesus wasn't referring to some generic, out there somewhere generation, he was talking directly to them:

"when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.

Finally, the much discussed part, "34 I tell you the truth, this generation, " confirms that Jesus was indeed talkimg to his disciples. It would have been just as easy for the author to have had Jesus saying the equivalent of "the generation that sees those things, "; instead, the author has Jesus saying "this generation" as in the generation we're currently in as I live and breathe.

May GOd open your eyes so that you can know the TRUTH.

I suspect you mean truth in the Orwellian 1984 sense.

Jesus died to save you from your sins and yourself. God bless.

Blessings all around.

ricadelide:

men, you have no clue. so you think some people sat down and decided on what to include and not include so future generatios can 'adapt your words to their time'!!??!

Of course not, there's no reason for that - just ask Nostradamus and the Deplphic oracle if you don't believe me, oh wait, they're somewhere other than here. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.

and please, there is a lot of 'exactness' in Biblical prophecy.

Yes, so exact that Muslims and Bahai followers can be sure the bible predicts their respective leaders.

in fact, many times so exact that the odds of them happening are at best impossible.

Not really, no.

the Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures was not trying to be 'safe' when the old testament prophecies were made. Cheers and i really hope and pray you find Him one day.

Spirits never seem to want to play it safe, but what do they know. I hope I find him someday too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPsTobaPmWw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrSQd-gDEYg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYrA3h8jmnc&mode=related&search=

Why is the opinion of the Jews on the matter of the messiah untrue? They've a better argument than Christians in that they can show that the Christian christ did not fulfill the many prophecies required of him - many Christians accept that but dubiously claim he'll fulfill them at some later date, when he returns.

wrong. the faith was started by Jews, Paul was a jew (he was a pharisee), the apostles were jews. the pharisees are a hypocritical religious sect who rejected Christ because he condemned and exposed their hypocrisy. If you need knowledge, read Rom 10 - 11. the Christ fulfilled all the prophecies required for his first coming; those pertaining to his second coming he will fulfill when He returns.

as regards the verses you misinterpreted, let me cite the statement in 1Cor 2;12-14, coupled with that in Eph 1;17 & 18, i've explained the correct interpretation of those verses to you. if you think otherwise, that's your business.

Well, that's one person that alledgedly tried to claim the title. Didn't do he was meant to though.

what are you talking about?

Don't be silly, understanding th Bible has little to do with believeing it is inspired and infallible (which it isn't as a cursory read through the Bible and comparing it with reality should show).

sorry ma, i'm not being silly. i'm letting you know what you don't know.  even Jesus' disciples had to have their minds opened so they could understand the scriptures. Luke 24; 30,31 & 45. Again, 1Cor 2.12-14. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those (words) taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Yes, so exact that Muslims and Bahai followers can be sure the bible predicts their respective leaders.

misinterpreting the bible isn't new. the devil started it. you are in 'good' company. indeed, there is hardly anything that the bible can't be misinterpreted to teach. false teachers and heretics have done that time and again. if you bring me the verses that predict their leaders, i'd engage you with them.

Not really, no.

Huh?

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done Rev. 22:12

ricadelide:

wrong. the faith was started by Jews, Paul was a jew (he was a pharisee), the apostles were jews. the pharisees are a hypocritical religious sect who rejected Christ because he condemned and exposed their hypocrisy. If you need knowledge, read Rom 10 - 11. the Christ fulfilled all the prophecies required for his first coming; those pertaining to his second coming he will fulfill when He returns.

Which part was wrong? That the majority of Jews can show messianic prophecies that weren't fulfilled by the Christians' Christ or that many Christians dubiously claim he will fulfill them at a later date? Because, apart from the "the faith was started by Jews" and "the pharisees are a hypocritical " non-sequitors, you haven't made any points that differ significanty from the ones I raised.

as regards the verses you misinterpreted,

I didn't misinterprete them: I've shown, with as much clarity as possible and with the verses to wit, what a plain and honest reading of the texts reveal. Anything else, done without similar candour, is disingenuous.

let me cite the statement in 1Cor 2;12-14, coupled with that in Eph 1;17 & 18,

i've explained the correct interpretation of those verses to you. if you think otherwise, that's your business.

Those would be the verses that inept Christian apologists use as excuses to practise and push their faulty, unreasonable readings as gospel truth. In any case, I've shown you what those verses say and mean. To think otherwise is foolishness.

what are you talking about?

Typo. That should read: Well, that's one person that alledgedly tried to claim the title. Didn't do what he was meant to, though. That is, Jesus, the Christian messiah, was alledgedly one of the many that claimed to be the promised christ.

sorry ma, i'm not being silly. i'm letting you know what you don't know. even Jesus' disciples had to have their minds opened so they could understand the scriptures. Luke 24; 30,31 & 45. Again, 1Cor 2.12-14. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those (words) taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

No, you're still being silly.

misinterpreting the bible isn't new. the devil started it. you are in 'good' company.

I'm pretty sure Christians, not the Devil, started the misinterpretation of the Bible.

indeed, there is hardly anything that the bible can't be misinterpreted to teach. false teachers and heretics have done that time and again.

Well, from what I've observed, they are only false teachers and heretics when their interpretation of ambiguously worded sections of the Bible differs from whoever is doing the labelling.

if you bring me the verses that predict their leaders, i'd engage you with them.

Here's a webpage with a host of them concerning the Bahai faith:
http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/

Interesting ones include: 11th Chapter of the Book of Revelation and prophecies concerning the coming of Bab: http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/time.htm

The Muslim ones can be found somewhere on this forum, IIRC (I'd provide some - through the help of google, of course - but that could make this longer).

Huh?

You claimed the odds of the prophecies happening as exactly as they were written (even though it is my contention, through studying the prophecies, that many are ridiculously vague and several aren't even prophecies!) are impossible at best. I disagreed.

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done Rev. 22:12

There is a history in all men's lives,
Figuring the nature of the times deceased;
The which observed, a man may prophesy,
With a near aim, of the main chance of things
As yet not come to life, which in their seeds
And weak beginnings lie intreasured.
Such things become the hatch and brood of time

- Billy Shakespeare

In spite of what the Christians preach, if the Messiah Jesus was to return today, in the image that he is portrayed, he would not be accepted by the masses of the people.They have depicted him as a Caucasian revolutionary middle-aged man dressed in hippie clothes, talking about love and peace for everyone. People would consider him as being crazy (as they said about the hippies of the 60’s) or try to kill him because he would be a threat to the devil’s economic success.
Money is the concern at hand, not the salvation of your soul.

@ Topic

He is coming back indeed because all the signs that were foretold are very much visible. See Luke 21, matthew 24, and Mark 13.

His coming may seem overdue but that is because God is not willing that any should perish. He has been a very patient and loving Father.

While it may be important to contemplate the second coming, it is even more important to stop and think that before there can be a coming there has to be a judgement. Christ our High Priest has to decide based on an investigative judgement who is worthy or not worhty for eternal life.

Revelation 22:11,12, He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[e] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

So after the books have been examined and the cases decided, only then will Christ come again to give a reward to every man. None will excape the reward.

For those who loved and followed Christ they will recieve eternal life, and those who followed another Christ they will recieve eternal damnation.

That is why you must weigh the situation carefully before time runs out. If you haven't accepted Christ as yet, now is the time to do so. Seek Him while He is still your advocate and defense attorney.

KAG:

Which part was wrong? That the majority of Jews can show messianic prophecies that weren't fulfilled by the Christians' Christ or that many Christians dubiously claim he will fulfill them at a later date? Because, apart from the "the faith was started by Jews" and "the pharisees are a hypocritical " non-sequitors, you haven't made any points that differ

can you please let me have the 'many prophecies that weren't fulfilled by Him'. FYI, I'd keep reminding you, you're not a christian, you don't know anything about the bible. Neither do you know anything about the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to be educated, we can try to help but its only God that can enlighten a man's heart.

KAG:

I didn't misinterprete them: I've shown, with as much clarity as possible and with the verses to wit, what a plain and honest reading of the texts reveal. Anything else, done without similar candour, is disingenuous.

plain and honest reading indeed. Honestly denying the second coming, honestly denying the agreement of those scriptures with the other scriptures in the bible? the bible speaks as one, you know, and it is 'here a little, there a little' Is 28:13. No one verse is isolated, and every teaching in one part agrees with what's in other parts of the bible and it is not subject to human interpretation but to be interpreted by people who have the spirit of God. 2Pet.1:19-21

KAG:

Those would be the verses that inept Christian apologists use as excuses to practise and push their faulty, unreasonable readings as gospel truth. In any case, I've shown you what those verses say and mean. To think otherwise is foolishness.

LOL, let me let you know that you don't know what you're talking about. i don't just read the bible, by i practice what it teaches and my life has been totally transformed by those spiritual words contained in the book. Jn 5;38-40. Also, Jn 6;63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." Let me restate, if you have not touched the rhema of God, you are absolute zero in regards to understanding the bible. We are not arguing about a textbook here or about science literature, we are talking about the Word of Life that is ABLE to (and DOES CONTINUALLY) save our souls.
If you want to learn about Christianity, ask, seek, knock. Matt. 7:7 If you choose not to be enlightened, your probs.

KAG:

Typo. That should read: Well, that's one person that alledgedly tried to claim the title. Didn't do what he was meant to, though. That is, Jesus, the Christian messiah, was alledgedly one of the many that claimed to be the promised christ.

Maybe you are the one to teach us what Jesus was meant to do. Can you help? LOL

KAG:

No, you're still being silly.

sorry again ma, i didnt intend to be silly. I intended to show you that you do not know (nor understand) the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matt. 12.24

KAG:

I'm pretty sure Christians, not the Devil, started the misinterpretation of the Bible.

with all i've read from you, there is nothing you can say that can be of surprise. However, let me indulge you with an answer, FYI, Matt. 4 took place when there were as yet no christians.

If you choose to reject Christ, that's your problem; each person has his choice. But don't be so pompous as to think that you understand the scriptures, you don't. If you understood the scriptures, you'd be a christian and you'd be saved; the reverse also holds true. Its because you don't that you're an atheist. Thank God He has revealed His Word unto us, and we have been included in Him.

the Jews are not christians because they don't have understanding. If the jews understood (likewise the princes of this world), they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Acts; 28:26-28,
saying,
         ‘GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,
         “YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
         AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
27 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
         AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
         AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES;
         OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
         AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
         AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
         AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.”’
28 “Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen.”

Thank God for His saving grace. Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast

Typo. That should read: Well, that's one person that alledgedly tried to claim the title. Didn't do what he was meant to, though. That is, Jesus, the Christian messiah, was alledgedly one of the many that claimed to be the promised christ.

if you want a list of scriptures showing prophecies Jesus fulfilled, i can refer you to this site;
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm
If you explain what the Christ was 'supposed to do' then we'd know if there's any need to continue this talk. As regards what Jesus did I've already explained to you somewhere else, but you seem to have your own 'requirements' or 'demands' as regards what to who He should be.

ricadelide:

can you please let me have the 'many prophecies that weren't fulfilled by Him'.

* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)

* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
* For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah#Textual_requirements

FYI, I'd keep reminding you, you're not a christian, you don't know anything about the bible. Neither do you know anything about the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to be educated, we'd try to educate you.

I'd like to inform you that I do know a great deal about the Bible - from its history to the varied forms of hemeneutics that have been employed in the course of exegesis - and Jesus the Nazarene. Also, one doesn't have to be a Christian to know and understand the Bible. In any case, I am open to any new information and any education that may come my way; however, extremely poor apologetics won't do it.

plain and honest reading indeed.

Yes, indeed. The post, complete with the verses, etc., can still be read.

Honestly denying the second coming,

With excellent reason.

honestly denying the agreement of those scriptures with the other scriptures in the bible?

With good hemeneutics.

the bible speaks as one, you know, and it is 'here a little, there a little' Is 28:13. No one verse is isolated, and every teaching in one part agrees with what's in other parts of the bible and it is not subject to human interpretation but to be interpreted by people who have the spirit of God. 2Pet.1:19-21

Once again, fallacious arguments that amount to little more than "Well, the words don't say what they plainly state, but I can decide it means what I want it to mean because -" are, understably, very poor and deserve derision.

LOL, let me let you know that you don't know what you're talking about.

Considering you did exactly what I asserted, it would seem I do in fact know what I'm talking about.

i don't just read the bible, i practice what it teaches and my life has been totally transformed by those spiritual words contained in the book. Jn 5;38-40. Also, Jn 6;63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."

I'm happy for you - even though this is another non-sequitor.

Let me restate, if you have not touched the rhema of God, you are absolute zero in regards to understanding the bible. We are not arguing about a textbook here or about science literature, we are talking about the Word of Life that is ABLE to (and DOES CONTINUALLY) save our souls.

Strange then that I actually understand it. Hmm, maybe I still have some the magic powers from my Christian days left.

If you want to learn about Christianity, ask, seek, knock. Matt. 7:7 If you choose not to be enlightened, your probs.

I have and I am learning about Christianity: that much is certain.

Maybe you are the one to teach us what Jesus was meant to do. Can you help? LOL

Maybe.

sorry again ma, i didnt intend to be silly. I intended to show you that you do not know (nor understand) the scriptures, nor the power of God.

You've done a poor job of it, then. Once again, for the sake of posterity if nothing else, "understanding th Bible has little to do with believeing it is inspired and infallible (which it isn't as a cursory read through the Bible and comparing it with reality should show)."

Matt. 12.24 with all i've read from you, there is nothing you can say that can be of surprise. However, let me indulge you with an answer, FYI, Matt. 4 took place when there were as yet no christians.

The book of Matthew was most likely written by a Christian, and since there is no Devil -

If you choose to reject Christ, that's your problem; each person has his choice. But don't be so pompous as to think that you understand the scriptures, you don't. If you understood the scriptures, you'd be a christian and you'd be saved; the reverse also holds true. Its because you don't that you're an atheist. Thank God He has revealed His Word unto us, and we have been included in Him.

First, rejecting the Christian doctrine is as much of a choice as the choice to reject the belief that Atlas is holding the sky in place.

Second, knowing that I understand aspects of the Bible is hardly hubris, it's just stating a fact and backing it up with both the verses and how they should be viewed honestly. Moreover, I have no problem admitting when I can't understand a Biblical text (I did so about a month or two on this forum)

Third, to quote Asimov, "properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." Becoming an atheist didn't make me lose my "special magical abilities" to understand the Bible: I also read the Bible as a Christian and understood it then and understand it still.

the Jews are not christians because they don't have understanding. If the jews understood (likewise the princes of this world), they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Oh dear! I think that's perhaps one of the most simplistic and myopic views on the subject of the Jews rejection of Christianity and their alledged crucifixion of Jesus the Nazarene.

Yes, and so is Father Christmas. the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny.

I'm not impressed. wikipedia is your source. anyway lets treat those scriptures as they come.

* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Is 1; 26 Then I will restore your judges as at the first, And your counselors as at the beginning; After that you will be called the city of righteousness, A faithful city."
Read Acts3;21 the restoration work is different from the work of salvation. when he comes again, he will restore things to their proper order, and hand over to kingdom. ICor. 15;24

* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

if you bothered to start from verse one and read it in context, you'd see tht it started with "in the last days, " those days are very much around the corner, and indeed he will judge the nations Matt.25;31-33

* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

Again, reading in context, a scripture that refers not to christ's salvation work in any way but to the Day of the Lord ie judgement. maybe you should try starting from verse 13 to understand

* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)

Is.11.1 if you bothered to read Mathew's account you'd see the royal line; he is indeed descended from king David's royal throne through his step father (Matt 1) and through his natural lineage from Mary (Luke 3;23-37)

* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Did you see the word 'judge' in that verse; he did not come to condemn the world at this time but that the world through him might be saved. Moreover if you read the chapter all the way to verse 6 and 7 you will see that it is referring to the millenial reign of the Christ; the wolf will lie down with the lamb, verse 9; the earth will be covered with the knowledge of the glory of God as the waters cover the sea. I really cant wait for that day. Before then he will judge the nations and will subdue everything; all dominions, powers and evil tyrannies will not stand. ICor 15;25,26

* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

And He will lift up a standard for the nations And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth
Blessed prophecy fulfilled in 1948. See how they distorted that verse, it didnt say 'all' but the mischief makers decided to twist the verse. it has always been clear that its a remnant that will return and they did. Many jews are still in US and many other places.

* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:

Read 1Corinthians 15; that verse is quoted and explained there.

* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

the blessed hope, ICor 15;52, Jn. 5;28-29, 1Thes 4;13-18

* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

1Pet.1;8-9, Rom. 14;7, Luke 2;10, Luke 19;37, Matt. 28.8, Jn. 15.13, John 16;22-23, Jn. 17.13, Acts. 8.8, 12;52, 14.17, 16.34 etc etc Inded we are continually filled with joy in His presence

* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

those verses was referring in a very direct manner to Jesus and he fulfilled them to the letter. If you want an exposition on the prophecies in Is 53 and how they've been fulfilled we can do that later.

* For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)

even Jesus quoted this scripture and it has and is being fulfilled. if you read through the book of acts you can see that. see Acts 2;42, 3;1, 6;4, 12;12, 13;1-3 etc

* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

again another scripture that has nothing to do with the coming of Jesus as the messiah. anyway, that is a futuristic prophecy. it is being fuliflled in the church (eg Acts. 14; 11-13 etc) We are the spiritual Jews Rom 9;6-8

* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

BTW, the jews coming back to Israel was a fulfillment of prophecy, after about 2000 years of being scattered all over the earth. i wonder what your point with that statement is.

* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

Have you read that verse in context, does have anything to do with the work of salvation but rather judgement and restoration at his second coming.

* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot

Very funny. nother contextual error.Go and read the chapter. Ezekiel had a spiritual vision of the church which is the temple of the holy Spirit. 1Cor 6;19

* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

For then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that they may all call on the name of Yahweh, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.
See misintepretation. i take it you didnt read the verse. First, which people is he referring to. Second what does shoulder to shoulder mean? the same verse in J.N. Darby translation; "For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent." this has been fulfilled in the church. See Acts2;1, 44, Acts 4;32

* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

Indeed, ask someone who 'delights himself in the Lord' and see if He has not given us the desire of our heart.

* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

fulfilled in the church.

I've said this before. In understanding biblical prophecy, it has to be contextual and agree with the context. It must also agree with other parts of the scripture and thus is not subject to private interpretation of the verse alone or of the natural mind. Precept must be upon precept and line upon line, here a little, there a little. Is. 29;13. Also 1Pet. 1;20,21 "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God".

Let me continue my explanation. It is possible to know 'about' the bible, and yet not know the bible. the bible is a living book, that is why those who are in Him FEED on his words day in day out. it is our life. they cannot survive spiritually without it. it nurtures our spirits and causes us to grow spiritually in Him. Ps.1;2-3, Matt.4;4, Psalm 19;7-11 You can know about the words in the scripture but yet not know the word of God, you can know the sentences and yet not know the God of the Word. Indeed, the letter kills. For instance, you might have read about Abacha and know a lot about him, but that doesnt mean you know Abacha. You can't predict what he will do, you can't tell which choices he will make in a given situation, you can't tell that he is approaching best on his footsteps etc those kinds of knowledge are only attained on a one-to-one basis and not through third parties. Its the same with the Word of God, which is Christ. There are many theology professors who know the scriptures (i mean the letter) more than i do, but they have not touched the God of the Word. As far as God is concerned, they are third parties. They are not privy to his heart.  They are still as blinded as night (John 9;39) and don't know their right from their left. Ps.103;7 says "He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the children of Israel". Moses knew God, the isrealites knew about God. Also, that was what Jesus was talking about in John 3;5-8. Nicodemus was a Pharisee who knew the scriptures, yet he didn't know God. John. 5;39-40. the pharisees knew the word, yet the word they knew did not profit them, because it did not mix with faith in their hearts. (just like the Isrealites in Heb. 4;2,3) However, like that verse 3 says, we who have beleived enter into that rest.

On the other hand, there are many who don't even know a lot about the bible, yet the little revelation they have, they maximise it, and they know Him who is from the beginning. The words were written 'that (we) may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing (we) may have life in his name." John 20;31. Except the arm of the Lord is 'revealed unto you' Is53;1, you can't beleive the message. And once that enlightenment takes place, its like the difference between night and day. (Acts. 26;18, Col. 1;13, Eph. 4;17-18, 5;8}  that is why when we are born anew in Him, we pass 'from darkness unto light, and from the power of satan unto God'. Reading the bible is not a mental or intellectual thing. Although we use our minds to understand what we read, it is by our spirits that we touch the Word of God. I can write a whole chapter of a book on this very basic fact; but perhaps i'm not doing a very good job of explaining things, maybe my bretheren who know what am talking about can help me out.

2Cor 4;3-4 Unto those who are not in Him, the message is veiled and they cannot understand it. i'd keep saying this truth, just like by the number of scriptures i've quoted that talks about the fact, it should be obvious to you that it is TRUTH taught in the scriptures (and proven by experience). Let me continue, the Saducees came to Him with a question in Matt 22. they thought they knew the scriptures but because they didnt know (the power of) God, they went into error. thats why Jesus gave them the reply in verse 29 and explained the scriptures unto them.

Prov.25;2 says "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter" God hides Himself and God's wisdom is hidden from men who are not in HIm 2Cor2;7 and it is only when we are in Him that the veil is taken away. 2Cor.3;15-18. that is why even after we have come unto Him we still pray for the spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him Eph1;17,18. I can't overemphasise this; the scriptures are not the end in themselves, they are a means to an end, that end is the knowledge of God. (Again, John5;39-40, John 20;31, Phil.3;10)

2Cor2;7-10, the words can be staring one in the face and one wont know what it means without the spirit of God interpreting them to us. that was my experience when i was not yet a child of God. that is the same experience with the disciples after Christ died, when, even though they knew the different prophecies, didnt understand that he had to die and be raised again on the third day (like the sign of Jonah). Luke.24;25-26.  There is a verse in the bible that says 'o taste and see that the Lord is good' (Ps.34;8}. you can't really say 'the Lord is good' except you have tasted him. Likewise there are many verses in the bible you can't fully 'know' or understand unless you have experienced them.

I hope i've made myself clear. I've really tried to, If i've not, then I'm really bad at explaining and will ask that some other person help me out. cheers.

@rica, you've done well, at least i do understand what you mean.

@thread starter and all, Jesus sure is coming back, for those who've waited for Him, kept His word and done His will.

dominobaby:

@rica, you've done well, at least i do understand what you mean.

thanks, i really needed that. Now let me go and sleep, its WAAYYY past my bedtime. cheers.

Aight. I'm on ma way to work! Enjoy your sleep!

@ricadelide,

I appreciate your outlines. Once again, thanks for adding to my understanding.

good thread!

ricadelide:

I'm not impressed. wikipedia is your source.

Considering the topic, it was an apt source.

anyway lets treat those scriptures as they come.Is 1; 26 Then I will restore your judges as at the first, And your counselors as at the beginning; After that you will be called the city of righteousness, A faithful city."
Read Acts3;21 the restoration work is different from the work of salvation. when he comes again, he will restore things to their proper order, and hand over to kingdom. ICor. 15;24

Your words: "when he comes again, he will restore things, etc". Ergo, we agree that Jesus didn't fulfill that prophecy (the Christian's spin is he hasn't done it yet, but it amounts to the same thing).

if you bothered to start from verse one and read it in context, you'd see that it started with "in the last days, " those days are very much around the corner, and indeed he will judge the nations Matt.25;31-33

The messiah, especially according to Jewish scribes, should do that on his first and only showing, so in context Jesus hasn't done this. Don't forget, the exercise was to show the mesianic prophecies that haven't been fulfilled by Jesus. sure, you could claim he just hasn't done it yet, but it would still be a moot claim.

Again, reading in context, a scripture that refers not to christ's salvation work in any way but to the Day of the Lord ie judgement. maybe you should try starting from verse 13 to understand

I didn't say anything about any Christ's salvation work (I can't even be certain where you got that from). The prophecy was: The whole world will worship the One God of Israel" as in, the world will exalt the God of Israel above all else. That hasn't happened.

Is.11.1 if you bothered to read Mathew's account you'd see the royal line; he is indeed descended from king David's royal throne through his step father (Matt 1)
and through his natural lineage from Mary (Luke 3;23-37)

Erm, biologial descendant through the father, not through alledged step-fathers.

Did you see the word 'judge' in that verse; he did not come to condemn the world at this time but that the world through him might be saved. Moreover if you read the chapter all the way to verse 6 and 7 you will see that it is referring to the millenial reign of the Christ; the wolf will lie down with the lamb, verse 9; the earth will be covered with the knowledge of the glory of God as the waters cover the sea. I really can't wait for that day. Before then he will judge the nations and will subdue everything; all dominions, powers and evil tyrannies will not stand. ICor 15;25,26

I did see the word "judge" in the verse - although I'm not quite sure how that matters, and the verse doesn't imply condemnation for all(equity for the meek, etc isn't condemning the world). In any case, you say the verse refers to the "millennial reign of Jesus", I say that prophecy hasn't been fulfilled. We agree on that much. The Jews are rightly waiting for a messiah that doesn't need excuses and second coming to excuse unfulfilled prophecies.

And He will lift up a standard for the nations And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth
Blessed prophecy fulfilled in 1948. See how they distorted that verse, it didnt say 'all' but the mischief makers decided to twist the verse. it has always been clear that its a remnant that will return and they did. Many jews are still in US and many other places.

"and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Yeah, maybe the mischief makers (including many the Christians - I suppose they must be heretics of some kind) don't have the super magic interpreting power that only true Christians have.

Read 1Corinthians 15; that verse is quoted and explained there.

So it hasn't been fulfilled (yet). Glad we agree.

the blessed hope, ICor 15;52, Jn. 5;28-29, 1Thes 4;13-18

A blessed HOPE indeed. Another one unfulfilled.

1Pet.1;8-9, Rom. 14;7, Luke 2;10, Luke 19;37, Matt. 28.8, Jn. 15.13, John 16;22-23, Jn. 17.13, Acts. 8.8, 12;52, 14.17, 16.34 etc etc Inded we are continually filled with joy in His presence

Dubious, but acceptable.

those verses was referring in a very direct manner to Jesus and he fulfilled them to the letter. If you want an exposition on the prophecies in Is 53 and how they've been fulfilled we can do that later.

No, those prophecise were referring to Israel, the servant of YHVH, and were not fulfilled by Jesus. I don't mind discussing Isaiah 53 with you.

even Jesus quoted this scripture and it has and is being fulfilled. if you read through the book of acts you can see that. see Acts 2;42, 3;1, 6;4, 12;12, 13;1-3 etc

If it has been fulfilled then it isn't being fulfilled. I think the latter agrees more with the position of unfufilled.

again another scripture that has nothing to do with the coming of Jesus as the messiah. anyway, that is a futuristic prophecy. it is being fuliflled in the church (eg Acts. 14; 11-13 etc) We are the spiritual Jews Rom 9;6-8

You're right the verse had nothing to do with the coming of Jesus as the messiah, because he wasn't the messiah. It is, however, a messianic prophecy that the messiah would need to fulfill.

BTW, the jews coming back to Israel was a fulfillment of prophecy, after about 2000 years of being scattered all over the earth. i wonder what your point with that statement is.

Fair enough.

Have you read that verse in context, does have anything to do with the work of salvation but rather judgement and restoration at his second coming.

I have read it in context, have you? Once again, I didn't mention or allude to anything to do with "the work of salvation", so I'll ignore that. Incidentally, I find it interesting that you concede that the prophecy would have to be fulfilled at a second coming of the Christian messiah. In case there are any doubts, that represents another prophecy that the Christian messiah hasn't fulfilled (some Christians say, "he hasn't fulfilled yet"

Very funny. nother contextual error.Go and read the chapter. Ezekiel had a spiritual vision of the church which is the temple of the holy Spirit. 1Cor 6;19

I'm not sure we've both read the same Ezekiel 40. The author describes measurements of the walls like:

"The length of the measuring rod in the man's hand was six long cubits, each of which was a cubit [a] and a handbreadth. He measured the wall; it was one measuring rod thick and one rod high."

describes aspects of the different aspects of the temple with measurements, design features and the types of gates it had. Yet, he/she was somehow describing a spiritual, not to be taken as a physical thing, church? Heck, the author even describes the areas for the priests and the sacrifices that would be [b]in the temple (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=40&version=31).

I can't help but be amazed at the circus tricks some apologists have to perform to keep the compartmentalisation going. I mean, read the bleeding text for Christ's sake! Bah!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=40&version=31

For then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that they may all call on the name of Yahweh, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.
See misintepretation. i take it you didnt read the verse. First, which people is he referring to. Second what does shoulder to shoulder mean? the same verse in J.N. Darby translation; "For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent." this has been fulfilled in the church. See Acts2;1, 44, Acts 4;32

Indeed, ask someone who 'delights himself in the Lord' and see if He has not given us the desire of our heart.
fulfilled in the church.

Fair enough.