alBHAGDADI:


This one doesn't know the series of events that takes place during the last day. He even thinks the last day is the last day on Earth like December 31 being the last day in a year

He also doesn't know what happens at rapture. To him, resurrection is in three phases: The rapture, the resurrection of matyred people the resurrection of the condemned. Na wah o.

The bolded part of your quote only confirms that you are a shameless desperate liar who puts words into people's mouth.

Kindly show everyone where I mentioned anything about the "rapture" as one of the phases of resurrection?

alBHAGDADI:

Simply because he saw the matyred people in revelations 20, he now thinks the event happened during the white throne judgment. He failed to notice that the martyrs are among those who resurrect during the rapture, not during the great white throne.

You are one hell of a habitual liar, and guess who the father of liars are... Satan.

Where on this thread did I mention that the martyred people were involved in the great white throne judgment?
I have always maintained that the martyrs were involved in the first resurrection. Go ahead and show everyone on this thread where I mentioned the martyred saints are involved in the great white throne judgment.

alBHAGDADI:

The last day is not a literal phrase but represents a period of time. That's why Jesus could say he would raise his believers which include his disciples, followers and everyone who believed in him from Abel on the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

And he also said he would resurrect the rejected people on the last day which doesn't mean the same day.

John 12 v 48;
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The first people resurrected on the last day are those who will reign with Christ for a millennium. The rest of the dead remain dead during that period

Why do you keep on sticking to lies even in the face of the naked truth?

How can you insult everyone's understanding here by postulating that the first resurrection and the second resurrection which occurs 1,000 years apart are both the last day?

What Jesus even mentioned in John 5 v 28-29 clearly tells us that the judgment of both the righteous and the damned would be done on the same day.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Are you trying to tell us what Jesus mentioned here alongside the parable of the sheep and the goats would be done 1,000 years apart but yet the first resurrection and second resurrection are both the "last day" Haba?!

alBHAGDADI:

Revelations 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


As seen above, the rest of the dead live not again. But a funny you say those in the first resurrection are only those who got martyred and didn't receive the mark of the beast. What you have implied is that John who didn't get martyred won't partake in that resurrection and won't reign with Christ. He will now wait till the second resurrection which death has power over

can you see your foolishness?



As seen above, you have implied that John the Apostle who wrote the book of Revelations won't partake in the first resurrection because he lacks any of those qualities. It means he won't reign with Christ. John must be ashamed of you right now. Of course he will reign with Christ because the first resurrection is not only for martyred people but for all those who believe in Jesus.

Let me ask you, did John die in Christ? Of course he did. Below is Paul talking about the first resurrection and it involves those who died in Christ (Which includes John) and those still alive in Christ.

Yeah, so John was actually martyred for Christ and lived in the era of the great tribulation?

John was not dumb nor stupid...he clearly had the understanding of what qualified those for the first resurrection and documented these completely per the revelation he saw.

Read what I showed to solite3 slowly;

Those involved in the first resurrection are not just those that are saved, but those who were martyred for the sake of Christ, refused to worship the beast or take its mark. In essence, it is those saints who suffered for Christ in the course of the great tribulation.

Has the beast and the dragon manifested itself as we speak? Has the world witnessed the great tribulation?

alBHAGDADI:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But your foolish self days the first resurrection is only for the martyrs and it takes place at the great white throne judgment. The Bible speaks in revelations 20:4 that they are raised before the white throne judgement which happens in verse 11.

Dumbass, Paul told you that the "rapture" is the first resurrection...and that everyone who died in Christ died from martyrdom...

alBHAGDADI:

Job?

How do you think God has been saving mankind since Abel? Do you think salvation started with Jesus dieing on the cross? No it started with looking forward to that day. That's how Abraham got saved and also Job. They all looked forward to the day Jesus would come and give his grace. They had faith in it including David.

Please show us where the likes of Job, Abraham or Enoch were saved by looking forward to the day Jesus would die on the cross.

Also tell us how those who never heard of the gospel or of Jesus Christ would be saved

alBHAGDADI:

We today look back at the day of Grace and have faith in it. Salvation is by faith through grace and that's why Job and Moses got saved and would partake in the first resurrection of those who believe in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Great! that means Jesus and John were totally wrong when they mentioned every man would be judged according to their works...

Revelation 20 v 13;
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 22 v 12;

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

alBHAGDADI:

.Go back and read the OP, it carries the explanation better. And stop jumping in at the tail end of my threads.

I read all the crap on the OP, and that is why I replied your post. I can't be blamed for entering your threads whenever I get to see your lies..

alBHAGDADI:

Your last paragraph, solite3 already told you that God is a just God and would follow due process. He has to show them that their names are not written in the book of Life after he's convicted them of their sins. Not doing that would amount to injustice. Even an earthly judge allows for fair trial of a confessed terrorists.

It is interesting to note that not even John mentioned the second resurrection involves everyone who is condemned...

It is very obvious that the first resurrection is not the last day, neither does the second resurrection have to do with only those who are condemned.

If it was so, John would have clearly recorded that everyone involved in the great white throne judgment did not have their names written in the book of life.


Whereas, like I also mentioned earlier, these are the words of Jesus on what happens on THE LAST DAY... not "in the last days"

John 5 v 28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How you can come here to tell us that the first resurrection and second resurrection which happens on days separated by a 1,000 years are both the last day??

Oh well, it's just another silly lie from you...

OkCornel:


The bolded part of your quote only confirms that you are a shameless desperate liar who puts words into people's mouth.

Kindly show everyone where I mentioned anything about the "rapture" as one of the phases of resurrection?

You don't have to mention it clearly. All you've done so far implies it.

All day, you have been saying that the martyred people are the ones who partake in the first resurrection. You now went on to imply that job and others who do not possess the qualities those martyrs possessed, which includes getting beheaded and not worshipping the beast, will resurrect in the second resurrection. I had to point not it out to you that it is not only martyred people who participate Ithe first resurrection or else the implication is that John who never got martyred will miss the millennial reign which all those in the first resurrection will participate in. It is on that basis I reminded you that John would resurrect in the first resurrection as stated by paul through rapture. Which means the first resurrection is not for martyrs alone but for everyone that believes in Jesus, whether martyrrd or not, so they can all reign with Christ for a millennium.

OkCornel:


You are one hell of a habitual liar, and guess who the father of liars are... Satan.

Where on this thread did I mention that the martyred people were involved in the great white throne judgment?
I have always maintained that the martyrs were involved in the first resurrection. Go ahead and show everyone on this thread where I mentioned the martyred saints are involved in the great white throne judgment.

That's what you've been implying all day. You don't have to mention it categorically.

alBHAGDADI:


You don't have to mention it clearly. All you've done so far implies it.

All day, you have been saying that the martyred people are the ones who partake in the first resurrection. You now went on to imply that job and others who do not possess the qualities those martyrs possessed, which includes getting beheaded and not worshipping the beast, will resurrect in the second resurrection. I had to point not it out to you that it is not only martyred people who participate Ithe first resurrection or else the implication is that John who never got martyred will miss the millennial reign which all those in the first resurrection will participate in. It is on that basis I reminded you that John would resurrect in the first resurrection as stated by paul through rapture. Which means the first resurrection is not for martyrs alone but for everyone that believes in Jesus, whether martyrrd or not, so they can all reign with Christ for a millennium.




That's what you've been implying all day. You don't have to mention it categorically.

Oh so now that you cannot prove I mentioned anything about these two things you accused me of, the next way to tell your lies is to claim I implied these?


1) That the martyred saints are involved in the great white throne judgment
2) That the "rapture" is one of the three phases of resurrection.


Where exactly did I mention or insinuate that martyred saints in the great tribulation are also judged at the great white throne judgment?

Where did I mention anything about rapture on this thread? Who brought up the issue of rapture on this thread?

If you admit you misunderstood me, then that's a different issue, but going the extra mile to claim I am implying these...is just another shameless lie...

Banters apart, you really disappointed me here

I have said something...and someone else is forcing words I never mentioned into my argument...in the absence of proof, he claims I implied those words.

What a joke

OkCornel:



Why do you keep on sticking to lies even in the face of the naked truth?

How can you insult everyone's understanding here by postulating that the first resurrection and the second resurrection which occurs 1,000 years apart are both the last day?.

Okcornel Vs Bible

Okcornel: The first resurrection happens 1000 years before the second resurrection

BIBLE: Correct because there is a 1000 year period between both events

Revelation 20:5 (KJV)
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Okcornel: Jesus will resurrect everyone on the last day which is the same day

BIBLE: WRONG. Because Jesus will resurrect the righteous at the beginning of the millennial reign and the second resurrection of the unbelievers takes place at the end of the millennial reign for then to be judged. If Jesus said he would raise those who believe in him on the last day, then how can they reign with him for a thousand years since he also said the unbelievers would be raised on the last day as well? It simply shows that the phrase LAST DAY is a time period, not a literal one day. Everyone will be resurrected on the last day, but the difference between the two resurrection is a thousand years which is the last day.

The last day is not a literal phrase but represents a period of time. That's why Jesus could say he would raise his believers which include his disciples, followers and everyone who believed in him from Abel on the last day
.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

And he also said he would resurrect the rejected people on the last day which doesn't mean the same day.

John 12 v 48;
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The first people resurrected on the last day are those who will reign with Christ for a millennium. The rest of the dead remain dead during that period and would only be raised at the end for judgment.

OkCornel:



What Jesus even mentioned in John 5 v 28-29 clearly tells us that the judgment of both the righteous and the damned would be done on the same day.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Look at how funny you are. You just exposed yourself. On one hand, you say the righteous people would be judged along with the unrighteous. On the hand as seen below, you say you never said such.

OkCornel:

You are one hell of a habitual liar, and guess who the father of liars are... Satan.
Where on this thread did I mention that the martyred people were involved in the great white throne judgment?

Perhaps you don't know what the Bible righteousness. The martyrs are righteous like Abraham because they all believed in Jesus which gives righteousness of God, not man made self-righteousness.

For you to even say they will be judged is another misunderstanding of the Bible. The verse you quoted didn't say anything about judgement. It only speaks of what will happen to both groups.

OkCornel:



Yeah, so John was actually martyred for Christ and lived in the era of the great tribulation?

John was not dumb nor stupid...he clearly had the understanding of what qualified those for the first resurrection and documented these completely per the revelation he saw.

Read what I showed to solite3 slowly;

Those involved in the first resurrection are not just those that are saved, but those who were martyred for the sake of Christ, refused to worship the beast or take its mark. In essence, it is those saints who suffered for Christ in the course of the great tribulation.

Has the beast and the dragon manifested itself as we speak? Has the world witnessed the great tribulation?



Dumbass, Paul told you that the "rapture" is the first resurrection...and that everyone who died in Christ died from martyrdom...

If John doesn't partake in the first resurrection, what you imply is that he will partake in the second resurrection. Then it means he will miss the millennial reign. Can you see how foolish you sound?

Is there a third resurrection? No . So therefore the rapture is the first as stated by Paul. Sadly, you kicked against it.

OkCornel:



Please show us where the likes of Job, Abraham or Enoch were saved by looking forward to the day Jesus would die on the cross.

Also tell us how those who never heard of the gospel or of Jesus Christ would be saved

They all got saved by relying on the blood of the lamb which symbolized jesus. Cain relied on his own works which got him condemned, but Abel relied on the blood of the lamb which represented Jesus. Abraham also pictured Jesus when he believed that a seed of his would redeem mankind. All those prophets believed in Jesus and they preached him. People believed then when they did, that's why they looked forward to the Messiah.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

As seen above, all the prophets preached that anyone who believed in Jesus shall have the remission of sins. That's how they all got saved back then. Those that didn't believe also didn't believe even when Jesus walked in their midst.

OkCornel:


Great! that means Jesus and John were totally wrong when they mentioned every man would be judged according to their works...

Revelation 20 v 13;
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 22 v 12;

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Where in the passages you quoted does it say all those who will be bjudged according to their works will now receive eternal life as reward?

Let me break it down for you.

Once you do a work, you get a reward for the job done. You earned the reward. But the Bible says eternal life is not gotten based on works but by believe in Jesus. This means that the judgment of the works of those people will only earn them rewards not eternal life. That's why the passages you quoted never mentioned eternal life as their reward.

Jesus did all the work in the payment for eternal life. We did nothing but believe in his work.



I read all the crap on the OP, and that is why I replied your post. I can't be blamed for entering your threads whenever I get to see your lies..
[/quote]

OkCornel:


It is interesting to note that not even John mentioned the second resurrection involves everyone who is condemned...[/b]

It is very obvious that the first resurrection is not the last day, neither does the second resurrection have to do with only those who are condemned.

If it was so, John would have clearly recorded that everyone involved in the great white throne judgment did not have their names written in the book of life.

The Bible is not abc neither is it for people without bthe spirit of God. John doesn't have to spell it all out to you. Even when he did, you still couldn't see it. Look below to see how he stated that all those who missed out on the first resurrection are condemned because the second death has power over them.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

OkCornel:


Oh so now that you cannot prove I mentioned anything about these two things you accused me of, the next way to tell your lies is to claim I implied these?


1) That the martyred saints are involved in the great white throne judgment
2) That the "rapture" is one of the three phases of resurrection.


Where exactly did I mention or insinuate that martyred saints in the great tribulation are also judged at the great white throne judgment?

Where did I mention anything about rapture on this thread? Who brought up the issue of rapture on this thread?

If you admit you misunderstood me, then that's a different issue, but going the extra mile to claim I am implying these...is just another shameless lie...

Banters apart, you really disappointed me here

Scroll up, I just exposed your double mouth.

alBHAGDADI:


Okcornel Vs Bible

Okcornel: The first resurrection happens 1000 years before the second resurrection

BIBLE: Correct because there is a 1000 year period between both events

Ok

alBHAGDADI:

Revelation 20:5 (KJV)
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Okcornel: Jesus will resurrect everyone on the last day which is the same day

BIBLE: WRONG. Because Jesus will resurrect the righteous at the beginning of the millennial reign and the second resurrection of the unbelievers takes place at the end of the millennial reign for then to be judged. If Jesus said he would raise those who believe in him on the last day, then how can they reign with him for a thousand years since he also said the unbelievers would be raised on the last day as well? It simply shows that the phrase LAST DAY is a time period, not a literal one day. Everyone will be resurrected on the last day, but the difference between the two resurrection is a thousand years which is the last day.

The last day is not a literal phrase but represents a period of time. That's why Jesus could say he would raise his believers which include his disciples, followers and everyone who believed in him from Abel on the last day
.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

And he also said he would resurrect the rejected people on the last day which doesn't mean the same day.

This guy ehn... Please show me where I said Jesus would resurrect "everyone" on the last day

The martyred saints in the first resurrection are who exactly? Read all my posts on this thread, only the martyrs of Christ in the great tribulation are involved in the first resurrection.

After that, both the righteous and unrighteous (apart from the martyrs involved in the first resurrection) are judged. The sheeps are separated from the goats.

John 5 v 28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The second resurrection is the last day, no need to twist words around this. It is just too straightforward...

alBHAGDADI:

John 12 v 48;
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The first people resurrected on the last day are those who will reign with Christ for a millennium. The rest of the dead remain dead during that period and would only be raised at the end for judgment.

How on earth are two days separated by a 1,000 years both the last day? Are you listening to yourself at all?

alBHAGDADI:

Look at how funny you are. You just exposed yourself. On one hand, you say the righteous people would be judged along with the unrighteous. On the hand as seen below, you say you never said such.

Please tell us how Job who never heard of Jesus or the gospel now qualifies for the first resurrection.

alBHAGDADI:

Perhaps you don't know what the Bible righteousness. The martyrs are righteous like Abraham because they all believed in Jesus which gives righteousness of God, not man made self-righteousness.

You just can't do without adding your unscriptural views to the scriptures right?

Look at what God said about Job that He loved him for;

Job 2 v 8;
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Did you see that? God called Job a PERFECT & UPRIGHT MAN. How is this possible where Job never met Jesus or heard of the gospel?

I have also asked you to bring the scriptures that showed those who lived before the time of Jesus were saved because they were looking forward to when He would be crucified.

alBHAGDADI:

For you to even say they will be judged is another misunderstanding of the Bible. The verse you quoted didn't say anything about judgement. It only speaks of what will happen to both groups.

So tell us how Abraham and Job qualifies for the first resurrection that John wrote in Revelation 20.

OkCornel:


Ok



This guy ehn... Please show me where I said Jesus would resurrect "everyone" on the last day

The martyred saints in the first resurrection are who exactly? Read all my posts on this thread, only the martyrs of Christ in the great tribulation are involved in the first resurrection.

After that, both the righteous and unrighteous (apart from the martyrs involved in the first resurrection) are judged. The sheeps are separated from the goats.

John 5 v 28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The second resurrection is the last day, no need to twist words around this. It is just too straightforward...


How on earth are two days separated by a 1,000 years both the last day? Are you listening to yourself at all?




Please tell us how Job who never heard of Jesus or the gospel now qualifies for the first resurrection.








You just can't do without adding your unscriptural views to the scriptures right?

Look at what God said about Job that He loved him for;

Job 2 v 8;
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Did you see that? God called Job a PERFECT & UPRIGHT MAN. How is this possible where Job never met Jesus or heard of the gospel?

I have also asked you to bring the scriptures that showed those who lived before the time of Jesus were saved because they were looking forward to when He would be crucified.




So tell us how Abraham and Job qualifies for the first resurrection that John wrote in Revelation 20.

If you've not been paying attention to my words, then it's your fault. All you've asked here are recycled and have been answered before even right from the OP.

I'm glad you couldn't object when I exposed your double lying tongue.

alBHAGDADI:


If John doesn't partake in the first resurrection, what you imply is that he will partake in the second resurrection. Then it means he will miss the millennial reign. Can you see how foolish you sound?

Is there a third resurrection? No . So therefore the rapture is the first as stated by Paul. Sadly, you kicked against it.

If the "rapture" according to what you quoted in the book of Thessalonians is the first resurrection...

Does it mean that all those people Paul wrote about were involved in the great tribulation? Compare that passage in Thessalonians to Revelation 20 and tell us confidently that Paul was referring to the first resurrection which John clearly mentioned would involve the martyrs of the great tribulation!

Revelation 20 v 4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So you're telling us that John wrote something incomplete or you're telling us that Paul is inferring all those Christians he wrote about in the book of Thessalonians lived, suffered and died in the great tribulation abi?

alBHAGDADI:

They all got saved by relying on the blood of the lamb which symbolized jesus. Cain relied on his own works which got him condemned, but Abel relied on the blood of the lamb which represented Jesus.

More lies. Abel was saved because he offered a lamb offering? Cain's sacrifice was rejected because he relied on his works...

Where was this written in the scriptures you liar? Where did you read that Abel's offering was accepted because they were lambs?

Heck! Even the ancient Israelites offered lambs to God...so that also means they are all saved too? Like seriously?

alBHAGDADI:

Abraham also pictured Jesus when he believed that a seed of his would redeem mankind.

Abeg no vex, where was it recorded in the scriptures that Abraham got to know that A SEED OF HIS WOULD REDEEM MANKIND?

Scriptural references please...

alBHAGDADI:

All those prophets believed in Jesus and they preached him. People believed then when they did, that's why they looked forward to the Messiah.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

As seen above, all the prophets preached that anyone who believed in Jesus shall have the remission of sins. That's how they all got saved back then. Those that didn't believe also didn't believe even when Jesus walked in their midst.

Hold it right there, first and foremost...the name of the messiah was a mystery prior to when Jesus (Yeshua) was born.

Also, if this applied to those who lived in the era prior to Jesus...even more so, the Jews that lived in the era of the law. If believing a messiah which was yet to come would grant them a remission of their sins... why were they required to perform certain sacrifices /offerings for their sins?

alBHAGDADI:

Where in the passages you quoted does it say all those who will be bjudged according to their works will now receive eternal life as reward?

Let me break it down for you.

Once you do a work, you get a reward for the job done. You earned the reward. But the Bible says eternal life is not gotten based on works but by believe in Jesus. This means that the judgment of the works of those people will only earn them rewards not eternal life. That's why the passages you quoted never mentioned eternal life as their reward.

Jesus did all the work in the payment for eternal life. We did nothing but believe in his work.

When Jesus was separating the sheeps from the goats in Matthews 25 v 31-46; was it only belief in Jesus that was the criteria for separation?

After the separation of the sheeps from the goats...what was the fate of the sheeps and that of the goats?

alBHAGDADI:

The Bible is not abc neither is it for people without bthe spirit of God. John doesn't have to spell it all out to you. Even when he did, you still couldn't see it. Look below to see how he stated that all those who missed out on the first resurrection are condemned because the second death has power over them.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Read verse 4 and verse 6 together.
Those who were martyred for Christ, and refused the mark of the beast in the course of the great tribulation are obviously Blessed and Holy.
And the comments John made on the second death having no power over them is also the fate of the righteous people involved in the second resurrection.

This brings us back to the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29;

Infact, John 5 v 28-29 further buttresses that fact;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation


Whether you do good or evil is what determines if you are resurrected to life or unto damnation...

These are the words of Jesus, not mine.


By the way, the second death represents death and hell (the grave) being thrown into the lake of fire. Those thrown into the lake of fire would partake of the second death...


No where does John mention that everyone involved in the second resurrection are condemned...

alBHAGDADI:


Scroll up, I just exposed your double mouth.

Where have you proven that I mentioned these?

1) The martyred saints are part of the great white throne judgment
2) That the resurrection is in three phases: The rapture, the resurrection of matyred people the resurrection of the condemned

alBHAGDADI:


If you've not been paying attention to my words, then it's your fault. All you've asked here are recycled and have been answered before even right from the OP.

Dirty liar, you just lied Abel got saved because he offered lambs to God. And the likes of Job was saved by looking forward to the crucifixion of Jesus.

Bring out the scriptural evidences to support these claims of yours...and this is the response you could come up with? Shameless liar at it again...

alBHAGDADI:


I'm glad you couldn't object when I exposed your double lying tongue.

Then that means you must have been blind to my replies on this thread...or wait, you just told another lie here...

OkCornel:


If the "rapture" according to what you quoted in the book of Thessalonians is the first resurrection...

Does it mean that all those people Paul wrote about were involved in the great tribulation? Compare that passage in Thessalonians to Revelation 20 and tell us confidently that Paul was referring to the first resurrection which John clearly mentioned would involve the martyrs of the great tribulation!

Revelation 20 v 4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So you're telling us that John wrote something incomplete or you're telling us that Paul is inferring all those Christians he wrote about in the book of Thessalonians lived, suffered and died in the great tribulation abi?

I'm glad you are now asking questions, even though they prove that you know nothing about the bible.

Going by your stance, the rapture is a third resurrection.

Didn't you see that Paul stated that those who gets raptured from the dead are those who died in Christ? Since when did the martyrs stop being among those who died in Christ?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For bthe Lord himself shall descend c from heaven with a shout, with the voice of dthe archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them i in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul's letter to the Thessalonians was to clarify them on end time events which they were confused about. It didn't say they would participate in the Tribulation. They could have, just as many who died yesterday believed same too. What Paul wrote is for everyone who will experience the great tribulation. Clearly those who will be alive then would be raptured while those who got beheaded during that period and right from Abel and Abraham will be resurrected to participate in the rapture and millennial reign.

OkCornel:


More lies. Abel was saved because he offered a lamb offering? Cain's sacrifice was rejected because he relied on his works...

Where was this written in the scriptures you liar? Where did you read that Abel's offering was accepted because they were lambs?

Heck! Even the ancient Israelites offered lambs to God...so that also means they are all saved too? Like seriously?



Abeg no vex, where was it recorded in the scriptures that Abraham got to know that A SEED OF HIS WOULD REDEEM MANKIND?

Scriptural references please...

I've had this discussion with .you before but Satan who blocked your ears prevented you from understanding.

The Bible says Faith in God is what saves mankind.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Abel had that same faith which makes one righteous before God regardless of whatever. He had faith in the instruction of God which he followed, but Cain didn't.


Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh

That faith made God to label Abel righteous but Cain not. Same thing played out with Abraham who had faith in God and was counted righteous


Galatians 3:6-9 (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

As seen clearly, faith is how God has been saving people before Jesus came and after.

Offering of lamb done by the ancient Israel was a forerunner to Jesus coming who is the Holy lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Since he was sacrificed, we need not sacrifice animals anymore.

John 1:29 (KJV)
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So all those who sacrificed animals in Israel then believed in the coming sacrifice of jesus, that's why they symbolized it by sacrifice lamb.

OkCornel:


Dirty liar, you just lied Abel got saved because he offered lambs to God. And the likes of Job was saved by looking forward to the crucifixion of Jesus.

Bring out the scriptural evidences to support these claims of yours...and this is the response you could come up with? Shameless liar at it again...



Then that means you must have been blind to my replies on this thread...or wait, you just told another lie here...

scroll up

OkCornel:


Where have you proven that I mentioned these?

1) The martyred saints are part of the great white throne judgment
2) That the resurrection is in three phases: The rapture, the resurrection of matyred people the resurrection of the condemned

Bold face liar.


You mean you didn't see it?

Go back up yourself.

OkCornel:



Hold it right there, first and foremost...the name of the messiah was a mystery prior to when Jesus (Yeshua) was born.

Also, if this applied to those who lived in the era prior to Jesus...even more so, the Jews that lived in the era of the law. If believing a messiah which was yet to come would grant them a remission of their sins... why were they required to perform certain sacrifices /offerings for their sins?

The name seems a mystery to you but the concept was not. Even the word Messiah which they all believed in was the name of Jesus. As long as you believed in the Messiah, you were saved.

The sacrifices were a symbol to prove bthey really believed in jesus. Those that didn't see sense in sacrificing a lamb also wouldn't see sense in Jesus the Holy Lamb being sacrificed for the remission of sins. That was how God clearly differentiated unbelievers from believers

OkCornel:

When Jesus was separating the sheeps from the goats in Matthews 25 v 31-46; was it only belief in Jesus that was the criteria for separation?

After the separation of the sheeps from the goats...what was the fate of the sheeps and that of the goats?

Yes of course. Once you are tagged a sheep, it means you believed in Jesus and also helped his brethren who are your fellow sheep.


Matthew 25:40 King James Version (KJV)
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


The goats never believed in Jesus that's why they didn't help the sheep who are brethren of jesus. If they had believed, they would have helped and they won't have been tagged goats.

Matthew 25:45-46 (KJV)
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

As seen above, belief in Jesus is what made the ssheep righteous

OkCornel:

Read verse 4 and verse 6 together.
Those who were martyred for Christ, and refused the mark of the beast in the course of the great tribulation are obviously Blessed and Holy.
And the comments John made on the second death having no power over them is also the fate of the righteous people involved in the second resurrection.

Nowhere is it stated that righteous people will be part of the second resurrection nor will there be spared from death which has power over those who will be in the second resirrection. You are the one injecting your own fowl understanding into the passage. John clearly stated that those who are in the second resurrection are under the power of death. He didnt say some of them wont be.

Revelation 20:6 King James Version (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Why would a righteous man be under the power of death?

OkCornel:

This brings us back to the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29;

Infact, John 5 v 28-29 further buttresses that fact;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation


Whether you do good or evil is what determines if you are resurrected to life or unto damnation...

These are the words of Jesus, not mine.


By the way, the second death represents death and hell (the grave) being thrown into the lake of fire. Those thrown into the lake of fire would partake of the second death...


No where does John mention that everyone involved in the second resurrection are condemned...

gibberish

OkCornel:


Where have you proven that I mentioned these?

1) The martyred saints are part of the great white throne judgment
2) That the resurrection is in three phases: The rapture, the resurrection of matyred people the resurrection of the condemned

Look below. As for rapture, your inability to state that the rapture is the same as the first resurrection gave you away

OkCornel:


Let's start first.

When is the Last day? Is it before or after the millennial reign of Christ?

the last days mean the times starting from Jesus ascension to the second coming of Christ.

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


here Peter is saying the outpouring of the holy Spirit took place in the last days which mean as at the time he was speaking the last days has already began.

OkCornel:


1) How did God give man an evidence of Himself?

Acts 14:16-18 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

why did God allow them to walk in their ways?

Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

God will never force himself on humans but he left evidence in that he was good to us humans inspite of sins.


Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
God's goodness didnt draw them to him.

Today the message of God's goodness is been preached In that God gave out his son to redeem man from his sin.

what other evidence are you looking for?

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


did you see this? no one seek God or desire him that is why they replaced God with idols.


the Goodness of God is an evidence of him.

have you ever considered the majestic heavens and the beautify earth swarming with life? is that not an evidence of the creator?
Psalms 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalms 19:2-3 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

the creation were literally preaching.

God left myriads of witness.

who gave man conscience? does that not tell you that person must be holy and righteous? men have not sought for God.

2) If God has given man an evidence of Himself (and is sufficient), why did Jesus instruct His disciples to go to the ends of the earth to preach the gospel?

I thought you said God had not given evidence now it is not sufficient. my question, then is how sufficient is sufficient?

why did Jesus instruct his disciples to God and preach? first let me tell you Jesus know all those who are his sheep and no one of them will be lost.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Jesus is the fulfillment of God's promise of deliverance, hence that goodnews would be preached to the end of the world.

the goodnews is that God's salvation has come all those who trusted in God for their deliverance past present and future has recieved the blessing of eternal life.

3) What is the fate of those who never heard of Jesus or the Gospel?



What is the fate of those who never heard of the gospel or of Jesus Christ?

there is no one that has not heard the gospel except the gospel about the fulfillment of God's promise of redemption, this is the gospel that is been preached.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


did you see that Abraham heard the gospel?

and it was written,

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


God's dealing has always been through faith.

Well spoken, I have no objection to these. But my question still stands. How will those who never heard of the gospel or Jesus be judged?

Will they be condemned to the lake of fire?

God does not judge by human standard, no man who is not cleansed by the blood of Jesus can enter heaven.


you can't claim right before God, you only answer for your sin.

You are repeating the error I have shown to the OP.

Where was it stated that everyone who missed out on the first resurrection are condemned? Study Revelation 20 closely and show us.

the bible says no one will be justified by their works. since they are judged according to their works, it only mean one thing CONDEMNATION.

Those involved in the first resurrection are not just those that are saved, but those who were martyred for the sake of Christ, refused to worship the beast or take its mark. In essence, it is those saints who suffered for Christ in the course of the great tribulation.

Please tell me how the old testament saints who lived before Christ or how those who never heard of Jesus and the gospel qualifies to be a part of the first resurrection...




Again, show us where everyone who missed the first resurrection are condemned.

Also find out if the last day is before or after the millennial reign of Christ...

the people who John saw are those that have been killed by the beast in the first being part of the first resurrection.
the others who were dead in christ had been risen up in the rapture.
so those killed for their faith were the only ones who were dead in christ at the time, the rest were already alive.

solite3:
Acts 14:16-18 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

why did God allow them to walk in their ways?

Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

God will never force himself on humans but he left evidence in that he was good to us humans inspite of sins.


Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
God's goodness didnt draw them to him.

Today the message of God's goodness is been preached In that God gave out his son to redeem man from his sin.

what other evidence are you looking for?

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


did you see this? no one seek God or desire him that is why they replaced God with idols.


the Goodness of God is an evidence of him.

have you ever considered the majestic heavens and the beautify earth swarming with life? is that not an evidence of the creator?
Psalms 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalms 19:2-3 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

the creation were literally preaching.

God left myriads of witness.

who gave man conscience? does that not tell you that person must be holy and righteous? men have not sought for God.





I thought you said God had not given evidence now it is not sufficient. my question, then is how sufficient is sufficient?

why did Jesus instruct his disciples to God and preach? first let me tell you Jesus know all those who are his sheep and no one of them will be lost.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Jesus is the fulfillment of God's promise of deliverance, hence that goodnews would be preached to the end of the world.

the goodnews is that God's salvation has come all those who trusted in God for their deliverance past present and future has recieved the blessing of eternal life.






there is no one that has not heard the gospel except the gospel about the fulfillment of God's promise of redemption, this is the gospel that is been preached.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


did you see that Abraham heard the gospel?

and it was written,

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


God's dealing has always been through faith.




God does not judge by human standard, no man who is not cleansed by the blood of Jesus can enter heaven.


you can't claim right before God, you only answer for your sin.





the bible says no one will be justified by their works. since they are judged according to their works, it only mean one thing CONDEMNATION.
the people who John saw are those that have been killed by the beast in the first being part of the first resurrection.
the others who were dead in christ had been risen up in the rapture.
so those killed for their faith were the only ones who were dead in christ at the time, the rest were already alive.

This is a sucker punch. You just landed a big blow on that guy's head.

Okcornel, you see your life? Everything I've been hammering on all day just got poured out by another fellow. Yet you haven't gotten support even from those Nairaland you called on.

No one will support you cos your teachings are wrong.

solite3:
the last days mean the times starting from Jesus ascension to the second coming of Christ.

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


here Peter is saying the outpouring of the holy Spirit took place in the last days which mean as at the time he was speaking the last days has already began.

solite3, I did not ask for the "last days", I asked what day is THE LAST DAY. Is it before or after the millennial reign of Christ?

How can someone say the last day also involves 1,000 years reign of Christ?

OkCornel:


How on earth are two days separated by a 1,000 years both the last day? Are you listening to yourself at all?

This one doesn't understand Bible language that's why he's taken the phrase last day to be a literal 24 hours.

When Prophet Daniel was talking about one week concerning the end time, do you think he meant one week of 7days? No, he means 7 years. That's Bible language for you.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

OkCornel:



Please tell us how Job who never heard of Jesus or the gospel now qualifies for the first resurrection.

Who told you Job never heard of Jesus? Job not only heard of Jesus as written in the scriptures by the prophets, he also preached about Jesus.

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


He preached about Jesus and his believe in him when he boldly stated that he knows Jesus the Redeemer will resurrect him when the Redeemer stands on Earth at the latter day.


Job 19:25-27 (KJV)
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


Guess who the Redeemer is? It is Jesus.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Guess who Job was counting on to resurrect him?



John 11:25 (KJV)
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

This clearly shows that Job believed in Jesus.


You also love to act as if people before the coming of Christ were not looking forward to his coming. But see what the woman by the well said

John 4:25-26 (KJV)
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

If they were not looking for the Messiah, why did the man below say they have found him?

John 1:41 King James Version (KJV)
He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.


Okcornel got knocked again

OkCornel:


solite3, I did not ask for the "last days", I asked what day is THE LAST DAY. Is it before or after the millennial reign of Christ?

How can someone say the last day also involves 1,000 years reign of Christ?

Scroll up

alBHAGDADI:


I'm glad you are now asking questions, even though they prove that you know nothing about the bible.

Going by your stance, the rapture is a third resurrection.

Being the hardened shameless liar that you are, where exactly did I bring up the matter of "rapture" in this thread? Who initiated the discussion of "rapture" on this thread?

Where did I mention that the resurrection is in 3 phases as you earlier claimed?

alBHAGDADI:

Didn't you see that Paul stated that those who gets raptured from the dead are those who died in Christ? Since when did the martyrs stop being among those who died in Christ?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For bthe Lord himself shall descend c from heaven with a shout, with the voice of dthe archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them i in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul's letter to the Thessalonians was to clarify them on end time events which they were confused about. It didn't say they would participate in the Tribulation. They could have, just as many who died yesterday believed same too. What Paul wrote is for everyone who will experience the great tribulation. Clearly those who will be alive then would be raptured while those who got beheaded during that period and right from Abel and Abraham will be resurrected to participate in the rapture and millennial reign.

How difficult is it for this thickheaded guy to understand English?

Was it Paul or John that had a vision of the first resurrection in Revelation 20? Who exactly did he say qualified for the first resurrection?

Revelation 20 v 4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WHAT THEN IS THE FATE OF THOSE WHO DID NOT LIVE IN THE ERA OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND WERE NOT MARTYRED?

They are part of the righteous ones judged in the second resurrection, and their names are searched for in the book of life. This is where the goats would be separated from the sheeps. Can't you see why John never spoke categorically that everyone involved in the second resurrection are condemned?

Look at the words of Jesus himself in John 5 v 28-29;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

alBHAGDADI:

I've had this discussion with .you before but Satan who blocked your ears prevented you from understanding.

The Bible says Faith in God is what saves mankind.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Abel had that same faith which makes one righteous before God regardless of whatever. He had faith in the instruction of God which he followed, but Cain didn't.


Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh

That faith made God to label Abel righteous but Cain not. Same thing played out with Abraham who had faith in God and was counted righteous

Lies lies lies, the same you earlier mentioned that Abel got saved because "he relied on the blood of the lamb", now you are changing mouth to tell us he was saved because he had faith in God. When I asked you for scriptural references, you're now bringing up the issue of Abel having faith in God... this was what you mentioned on this thread earlier;

alBHAGDADI: They all got saved by relying on the blood of the lamb which symbolized jesus. Cain relied on his own works which got him condemned, but Abel relied on the blood of the lamb which represented Jesus.

Where is the bible verse that shows Abel got saved because he relied on the blood of the lamb?

alBHAGDADI:

Galatians 3:6-9 (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

As seen clearly, faith is how God has been saving people before Jesus came and after.

Very good, now we are getting somewhere on how those who never heard of Jesus can be saved, it is by having faith in God...

Something I've been waiting to hear all day. So what does having faith in God entails for one who never heard about Jesus?

alBHAGDADI:

Offering of lamb done by the ancient Israel was a forerunner to Jesus coming who is the Holy lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Since he was sacrificed, we need not sacrifice animals anymore.

John 1:29 (KJV)
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So all those who sacrificed animals in Israel then believed in the coming sacrifice of jesus, that's why they symbolized it by sacrifice lamb.

Hold it right there, if you say the Jews who lived before Jesus got saved by looking forward to the messiah...what is the point in offering certain sacrifices and offerings for their sins?

solite3:


the bible says no one will be justified by their works. since they are judged according to their works, it only mean one thing CONDEMNATION.

What then shall you say about the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29 and Revelation 22 v 12?

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

Revelation 22 v 12;
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be

solite3:

the people who John saw are those that have been killed by the beast in the first being part of the first resurrection.
the others who were dead in christ had been risen up in the rapture.
so those killed for their faith were the only ones who were dead in christ at the time, the rest were already alive.

Please clarify the point you're making here;

Are you saying that those John saw in the first resurrection (i.e. those martyred for christ in the course of the great tribulation) are those that were "raptured"?

Or are you saying the first resurrection and the rapture are separate events...

Please clarify

OkCornel:
Infact, John 5 v 28-29 further buttresses that fact;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation


Whether you do good or evil is what determines if you are resurrected to life or unto damnation...

These are the words of Jesus, not mine.



By the way, the second death represents death and hell (the grave) being thrown into the lake of fire. Those thrown into the lake of fire would partake of the second death...


No where does John mention that everyone involved in the second resurrection are condemned...

alBHAGDADI:
gibberish

Interesting....so the words of Jesus is gibberish...

No counter whatsoever to these priceless words of Christ...

OkCornel:


Being the hardened shameless liar that you are, where exactly did I bring up the matter of "rapture" in this thread? Who initiated the discussion of "rapture" on this thread?

Where did I mention that the resurrection is in 3 phases as you earlier claimed?


How difficult is it for this thickheaded guy to understand English?

Was it Paul or John that had a vision of the first resurrection in Revelation 20? Who exactly did he say qualified for the first resurrection?

Revelation 20 v 4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WHAT THEN IS THE FATE OF THOSE WHO DID NOT LIVE IN THE ERA OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND WERE NOT MARTYRED?

They are part of the righteous ones judged in the second resurrection, and their names are searched for in the book of life. This is where the goats would be separated from the sheeps. Can't you see why John never spoke categorically that everyone involved in the second resurrection are condemned?

Look at the words of Jesus himself in John 5 v 28-29;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Okcornel: Only the martyrs participate in the first resurrection and will reign with Christ for a 1000 years.

Question: What about other believers in Jesus?

Okcornel: All other people both righteous and evil will resurrect in the second resurrection.

Questions: Doesn't this mean that all those who believed in Jesus will miss the millennial reign. and would be under the power of the second death for missing out on the first resurrection?

Okcornel: ××××××××××


Question: Is the rapture which Paul says is the resurrection of the dead in Christ going to be their first resurrection, the second resurrection or the third?

Okcornel: ×××××××××××

Question: Did the great tribulation martyrs die in Christ?

Okcornel: Yes

Question: Did Peter, Stephen, Paul who all got martyred before the great tribulation also die in Christ?

Okcornel: Yes

Question: Were Peter, Stephen, Paul etc witnesses of Jesus?


Okcornel: Yes

As seen below, the category of those who resurrect in the first resurrection are not only those killed during the great tribulation, but also all those who witnessed Jesus, and that includes Peter, Stephen, Paul etc.

Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Even Paul stated that all those dead in Christ will rise first. Those dead in Christ are not only the martyrs, but those who died natural death. They will all rise first.


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now, this resurrection Paul is talking about aka rapture, which is the resurrection of all those who died in Christ, be it martyred or natural death, when does it take place? Is it in the first resurrection or second resurrection? Remember Paul said the dead in Christ will rise first.

OkCornel:

Lies lies lies, the same you earlier mentioned that Abel got saved because "he relied on the blood of the lamb", now you are changing mouth to tell us he was saved because he had faith in God. When I asked you for scriptural references, you're now bringing up the issue of Abel having faith in God... this was what you mentioned on this thread earlier;



Where is the bible verse that shows Abel got saved because he relied on the blood of the lamb?



Very good, now we are getting somewhere on how those who never heard of Jesus can be saved, it is by having faith in God...

Something I've been waiting to hear all day. So what does having faith in God entails for one who never heard about Jesus?



Hold it right there, if you say the Jews who lived before Jesus got saved by looking forward to the messiah...what is the point in offering certain sacrifices and offerings for their sins?

Are you daft?

Abel got served because he had faith in God's word which told him to rely on the blood of the lamb which was a symbol of the blood of Jesus who is the Holy Lamb. That faith is the same as having faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.


Who never heard about Jesus? Who never heard about God? Mention a name?

The Queen of Sheba came from the south to hear the wisdom of Solomon given told him by God. Job who wasn't Israelite believed in God from afar off. How did they hear if not that the message spread? Yet this one thinks some never heard about God. Solite3 just showed you how God males himself known.

The Jews offered sacrifices as a symbol of the sacrifice of Jesus which was to come. Jesus had not yet been crucified, so they did what they did in anticipation of the crucifixion. That's why we today no longer do such sacrifices because Jesus has paid it all once and for all.

OkCornel:


What then shall you say about the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29 and Revelation 22 v 12?

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

Revelation 22 v 12;
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, [b]to give every man according as his work shall be[/b]y

I always tell you to learn to divide scriptures with scriptures or else you will pick one verse, misconstrue it and run wild with that foul understanding.

Jesus wasn't advocating for works based salvation. Otherwise he won't have rejected those people who called him Lord, Lord and did wonderful works.

Now, the good Jesus was talking g about is not the good of self-righteous works but the good of seeking eternal life which made them believe in Jesus.

Those whom he says have done evil are those who didn't obey the words of righteousness. See how Paul explained it below.


Romans 2:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

I expect you to come and start arguing stupidly again. Don't act as if you didn't see how Paul showed the deeds/works Jesus will be rewarding people for. He clearly stated that the good deeds is the one which seek eternal life, while the evil deeds is that which is disobedient to the truth.

Can you now see how you've misunderstood the verse in John 5:28-29?

OkCornel:


Please clarify the point you're making here;

Are you saying that those John saw in the first resurrection (i.e. those martyred for christ in the course of the great tribulation) are those that were "raptured"?

Or are you saying the first resurrection and the rapture are separate events...

Please clarify

He is simply saying what every Bible believing student whose name is not Okcornel is saying, which is that the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs takes place at the same time as the rapture. They are the same event.

It is so because Paul said the dead in Christ rise first. The people who died in Christ, be it natural or martyrdom, all rise first before those alive get caught up to meet them with Jesus in the sky.

OkCornel:





Interesting....so the words of Jesus is gibberish...
No counter whatsoever to these priceless words of Christ...

No, your own understanding is gibberish.
I just exposed it.
Scroll up.

solite3:
Acts 14:16-18 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

why did God allow them to walk in their ways?

Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

God will never force himself on humans but he left evidence in that he was good to us humans inspite of sins.

I am very happy you brought up this verse. It only shows God is not a religious bigot as some people paint him to be.

solite3:

Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
God's goodness didnt draw them to him.

Today the message of God's goodness is been preached In that God gave out his son to redeem man from his sin.

what other evidence are you looking for?

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
did you see this? no one seek God or desire him that is why they replaced God with idols.

Context, context. Romans 3 v 11 is referring to who exactly?

Even right from the ancient times, people called upon the name of the Lord;
Genesis 4 v 26: And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

So who exactly is Romans 3 v 11 referring to?

[/quote]

solite3:

the Goodness of God is an evidence of him.

have you ever considered the majestic heavens and the beautify earth swarming with life? is that not an evidence of the creator?
Psalms 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalms 19:2-3 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

the creation were literally preaching.

You still do not understand me. The evidence of God is not what I am contesting here. My question is...those who have never heard of Jesus or the gospel, how would they be judged?

Let's be real here. Was it nature that revealed Jesus to you? Was it the heavens and the firmaments that told you about Jesus?

solite3:

God left myriads of witness.

who gave man conscience? does that not tell you that person must be holy and righteous? men have not sought for God.

Very good, will those who never heard of Jesus or the gospel be judged according to their conscience? Since the conscience tells them what is good or evil?

This is why I've been hammering on the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29;

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which "all that are in the graves" shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

solite3:

I thought you said God had not given evidence now it is not sufficient. my question, then is how sufficient is sufficient?

why did Jesus instruct his disciples to God and preach? first let me tell you Jesus know all those who are his sheep and no one of them will be lost.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Jesus is the fulfillment of God's promise of deliverance, hence that goodnews would be preached to the end of the world.
[/quote]

Which again raises the question that I've been asking all the while. What is the fate of those who never heard the good news?

Doesn't the matter of man having a conscience already tells us how they will be judged?

solite3:

the goodnews is that God's salvation has come all those who trusted in God for their deliverance past present and future has recieved the blessing of eternal life.

there is no one that has not heard the gospel except the gospel about the fulfillment of God's promise of redemption, this is the gospel that is been preached.

Hold on, are you saying our forefathers in the deep jungles of Africa heard the gospel? How? Was it nature that preached the gospel?

Perhaps for further clarity...what do you mean by the gospel here?

solite3:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


did you see that Abraham heard the gospel?
Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


God's dealing has always been through faith.

Let's get further clarity on what the gospel entails. What Abraham was told in Galatians 3 v 8...that through him all the nations shall be blessed is the gospel of redemption? Which is it...that the nations shall be blessed through Abraham OR that mankind would be redeemed through Jesus Christ?


If you read Galatians 3 v 5-10; Paul used Abraham as an example of how the heathen can please God by having faith in Him...

For example, Job (totally distant from Abraham) a gentile also had faith (i.e. believed) in God... and pleased God.

solite3:







God does not judge by human standard, no man who is not cleansed by the blood of Jesus can enter heaven.


you can't claim right before God, you only answer for your sin.





the bible says no one will be justified by their works. since they are judged according to their works, it only mean one thing CONDEMNATION.
the people who John saw are those that have been killed by the beast in the first being part of the first resurrection.
the others who were dead in christ had been risen up in the rapture.
so those killed for their faith were the only ones who were dead in christ at the time, the rest were already alive.

Scroll up...I referred you to the words of Jesus in John 5 v 28-29 and Revelation 22 v 12...I'm awaiting your response to these...

alBHAGDADI:


Okcornel: Only the martyrs participate in the first resurrection and will reign with Christ for a 1000 years.

Question: What about other believers in Jesus?

They would be resurrected on the last day where both the righteous and the unrighteous would be judged in the great white throne judgment.

alBHAGDADI:

Okcornel: All other people both righteous and evil will resurrect in the second resurrection.

Questions: Doesn't this mean that all those who believed in Jesus will miss the millennial reign. and would be under the power of the second death for missing out on the first resurrection?

Okcornel: ××××××××××

Because you're blind...the martyred saints that lived in the era of the great tribulation were specified by John in revelation 20 as the beneficiaries of the first resurrection.

No where did John mention everyone who partook in the second resurrection (which is the last day) are under the power of the second death.
It is only those who did not have their names in the book of life that would suffer the second death. The second death entails death and hell (the grave) being casted into the lake of fire... those whose names are not written in the book of life are casted into the lake of fire which is the second death.

alBHAGDADI:

Question: Is the rapture which Paul says is the resurrection of the dead in Christ going to be their first resurrection, the second resurrection or the third?

Okcornel: ×××××××××××

Is there a 3rd resurrection in the bible? only alBHAGDADI has been saying that...

And this "rapture" Paul spoke of obviously does not tally with the first resurrection John wrote in Revelation 20... so therefore add your 1 + 1

alBHAGDADI:

Question: Did the great tribulation martyrs die in Christ?

Okcornel: Yes

Question: Did Peter, Stephen, Paul who all got martyred before the great tribulation also die in Christ?

Okcornel: Yes

Question: Were Peter, Stephen, Paul etc witnesses of Jesus?


Okcornel: Yes

As seen below, the category of those who resurrect in the first resurrection are not only those killed during the great tribulation, but also all those who witnessed Jesus, and that includes Peter, Stephen, Paul etc.

Revelation 20:4 King James Version (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Please read Revelation 20 v 4; then see why "AND" was used in that passage...

Did these people live in the era of the great tribulation? Did they have an encounter with the anti-christ John wrote of in Revelation?

alBHAGDADI:


Even Paul stated that all those dead in Christ will rise first. Those dead in Christ are not only the martyrs, but those who died natural death. They will all rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now, this resurrection Paul is talking about aka rapture, which is the resurrection of all those who died in Christ, be it martyred or natural death, when does it take place? Is it in the first resurrection or second resurrection? Remember Paul said the dead in Christ will rise first.

Paul who never saw the vision of the end to come as precise and clear as Jesus showed to John in the book of revelation should be our ultimate standard for knowing what happens at the end of time? What a joke...

Let us examine that rapture verse you keep repeating... especially the last part;

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If all the saints are caught up to meet with their dead colleagues in the cloud and be with the Lord in the air...and be with the Lord forever thereafter...

They will also be the same saints on earth that would be attacked by Gog/Magog in the book of Revelation 20 v 9 abi?
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Again, I find it very funny when you compare the writings of Paul concerning the end to Apostle John whom Jesus revealed precisely what would happen at the time of the end.

Even Paul nor none of the Apostles had a revelation about the millennial reign of Christ except for John whom Jesus showed all these to...

Are you thinking straight now?

alBHAGDADI:

Are you daft?

Abel got served because he had faith in God's word which told him to rely on the blood of the lamb which was a symbol of the blood of Jesus who is the Holy Lamb. That faith is the same as having faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Your lies are being exposed by even the verses you are bringing here. Abel was not saved by the blood of the lambs he sacrificed to God...
What he got was a confirmation that he is righteous. And how did that come about? Through faith in God...

Are you telling us Abel was unrighteous prior to the time he offered a sacrifice to God? When will you quit lying stupidly?

alBHAGDADI:

Who never heard about Jesus? Who never heard about God? Mention a name?

If you weren't blind to previous posts I made concerning remote tribes and communist countries like North Korea and Russia that has vast regions where the gospel has not been preached...you won't be asking me this silly question again...

alBHAGDADI:

The Queen of Sheba came from the south to hear the wisdom of Solomon given told him by God. Job who wasn't Israelite believed in God from afar off. How did they hear if not that the message spread? Yet this one thinks some never heard about God. Solite3 just showed you how God males himself known.

I have told you God making Himself known to man is not the issue. My question is "what is the fate of those who never heard of the gospel/Jesus?"

Oh wait, so Job, Solomon and Sheba knew Jesus? what a joke...

alBHAGDADI:

The Jews offered sacrifices as a symbol of the sacrifice of Jesus which was to come. Jesus had not yet been crucified, so they did what they did in anticipation of the crucifixion. That's why we today no longer do such sacrifices because Jesus has paid it all once and for all.

Stop lying abeg, the Jews offered those sacrifices for their sins. If believing in a Messiah that was yet to come in their time was sufficient enough, what then is the need for shedding blood of those animals?

First and foremost, solite3 can answer for himself. Let him reply my questions.

alBHAGDADI:


I always tell you to learn to divide scriptures with scriptures or else you will pick one verse, misconstrue it and run wild with that foul understanding.

Jesus wasn't advocating for works based salvation. Otherwise he won't have rejected those people who called him Lord, Lord and did wonderful works.

Now, the good Jesus was talking g about is not the good of self-righteous works but the good of seeking eternal life which made them believe in Jesus.

Those whom he says have done evil are those who didn't obey the words of righteousness. See how Paul explained it below.


Romans 2:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

I expect you to come and start arguing stupidly again. Don't act as if you didn't see how Paul showed the deeds/works Jesus will be rewarding people for. He clearly stated that the good deeds is the one which seek eternal life, while the evil deeds is that which is disobedient to the truth.

Can you now see how you've misunderstood the verse in John 5:28-29?

So what did Jesus use to separate the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25 v 31-46?

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

alBHAGDADI:

He is simply saying what every Bible believing student whose name is not Okcornel is saying, which is that the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs takes place at the same time as the rapture. They are the same event.

It is so because Paul said the dead in Christ rise first. The people who died in Christ, be it natural or martyrdom, all rise first before those alive get caught up to meet them with Jesus in the sky.

Again...we should take the words of Paul above that of John whom Jesus Himself revealed the order of things to happen;

Revelation 20 v 4;
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


If according to Paul who had no revelation of the millennial reign of Christ, every dead saint and living ones are taken off the face of the earth and ascended to be with the Lord... which saints did satan deceive the nations to attack in Revelation 20 v 9?

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them