Ihedinobi3:

If Satan had lost his place in Heaven, how could he then still appear before God? After he was thrown down from Heaven, in Revelation 12 it is said that he had been accusing the saints until he was cast down (see verse 10) implying that he could no longer accuse anyone. In Job 1 and 2, clearly, he was accusing Job to God. How was that possible if Revelation 12:10 is true?

As for Ezekiel 28, there is no question that we have Satan's rebellion detailed there along with his ultimate fate. But I don't see how it talks about Satan being cast down when the disciples went out on their mission. As I said, if Satan had already be cast down in Job and Ezekiel, how come he is still cast down again in the gospels? How many times was he cast down? And how many times does he need to be cast down?

It makes the most sense to receive the Bible as saying that his casting down is a certainty even though it is yet future.

Satan has lost his place but is still have the right to go and come in the presence of God because is still son of God . in revelation 12 show that there will be a war and war will be fight in heaven so Satan and his soldiers will need to visit there as their battle ground after the defeat , devil will not be given permission to visit again .

jcross19:
now in revelation 12 vs 4 says with his tail he DRAGGED a third of the stars out of sky and THREW them down to the earth. now look at this two words dragged and threw are in past tense meaning the event have taken place in the past. now the word "his tail" mean he 'deceived' , stars in the sentence mean the host of heavens, mighty of heavenly beings.

As you yourself said, revelation (or prophecy) can be referring to any time at all. The tense does not necessarily describe when the thing being spoken of is occurring. We establish the timing of prophecy by looking at everything else the Bible teaches. Clearly, from Romans 8:34, the Lord Jesus has been interceding for us even after His Resurrection. Who would He be interceding against, if it wasn't the devil accusing us to God?

I don't see what you are teaching in the Bible, so I cannot agree with you.

jcross19:
Satan has lost his place but is still have the right to go and come in the presence of God because is still son of God . in revelation 12 show that there will be a war and war will be fight in heaven so Satan and his soldiers will need to visit there as their battle ground after the defeat , devil will not be given permission to visit again .

Where does the Bible teach that Satan still has any right to come before God after losing his place in Heaven?

Ihedinobi3:

As you yourself said, revelation (or prophecy) can be referring to any time at all. The tense does not necessarily describe when the thing being spoken of is occurring. We establish the timing of prophecy by looking at everything else the Bible teaches. Clearly, from Romans 8:34, the Lord Jesus has been interceding for us even after His Resurrection. Who would He be interceding against, if it wasn't the devil accusing us to God?

I don't see what you are teaching in the Bible, so I cannot agree with you.

ahahahahah I just laugh then if that what you mean Ezekiel vision is fake .

Ihedinobi3:

Where does the Bible teach that Satan still has any right to come before God after losing his place in Heaven?

in job 1vs 2-6 shows that satan still come before God.

jcross19:
ahahahahah I just laugh then if that what you mean Ezekiel vision is fake .

No, I don't mean that at all. I think that you are very mistaken about what the Bible teaches here.

Ezekiel is both a historical document and a prophetic one (that is, a document describing future history). As I said earlier, many prophecies, whether in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos or any other book of the Bible, describe much of the future events that they foretell in perfect tense, as if they had already occurred.

So, it takes scholarship in the rest of the Bible to tell whether the prophecy refers to the past or the future or the present or all three or any two of those. Some prophecies have multiple applications even, using the principle of types and antitypes.

In the end, I will say again that I don't agree with you. I don't demand or necessarily expect you to agree with me, but I am confident that what I have said reflects the true biblical teaching.

jcross19:
in job 1vs 2-6 shows that satan still come before God.

Of course. And that is because he hasn't yet been cast down. When he is, he will have no more right to come before God, especially to accuse believers.

Ihedinobi3:

No, I don't mean that at all. I think that you are very mistaken about what the Bible teaches here.

Ezekiel is both a historical document and a prophetic one (that is, a document describing future history). As I said earlier, many prophecies, whether in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos or any other book of the Bible, describe much of the future events that they foretell in perfect tense, as if they had already occurred.

So, it takes scholarship in the rest of the Bible to tell whether the prophecy refers to the past or the future or the present or all three or any two of those. Some prophecies have multiple applications even, using the principle of types and antitypes.

In the end, I will say again that I don't agree with you. I don't demand or necessarily expect you to agree with me, but I am confident that what I have said reflects the true biblical teaching.

just say you lack understanding of the bible. in that Ezekiel the message is clear telling how Satan was created and how he lost his glory even that Ezekiel is more accurate about story of satan while the revelation 12 talks how devil rebel against God. sit down with careful heart and to understand more about those chapters.

jcross19:
just say you lack understanding of the bible. in that Ezekiel the message is clear telling how Satan was created and how he lost his glory even that Ezekiel is more accurate about story of satan while the revelation 12 talks how devil rebel against God. sit down with careful heart and to understand more about those chapters.

Why should I say so? Have you seen yet that I do?

I certainly agree that Ezekiel describes Satan's beginning as a cherub and his rebellion, as I said before. I also believe that he describes his judgment and casting down from Heaven. But while the first two things are in the past, the last is yet future.

Revelation 12, on the other hand, talks about Satan's expulsion from Heaven, that is, the fulfillment of the prophecy in Ezekiel 28. While it does mention his rebellion by referring to his swaying of the angels to his side, it was talking primarily about the events of the Tribulation.

Ihedinobi3:

Why should I say so? Have you seen yet that I do?

I certainly agree that Ezekiel describes Satan's beginning as a cherub and his rebellion, as I said before. I also believe that he describes his judgment and casting down from Heaven. But while the first two things are in the past, the last is yet future.

Revelation 12, on the other hand, talks about Satan's expulsion from Heaven, that is, the fulfillment of the prophecy in Ezekiel 28. While it does mention his rebellion by referring to his swaying of the angels to his side, it was talking primarily about the events of the Tribulation.

there is no prophecy in Ezekiel 28vs13 is just an event that have taken place . that verses reviewed what transpired the expulsion of satan from his glory.

jcross19:
there is no prophecy in Ezekiel 28vs13 is just an event that have taken place . that verses reviewed what transpired the expulsion of satan from his glory.

You're certainly free to believe that if you want. As I said before, I disagree with you. I don't believe that you are correct in this matter.

Ihedinobi3:

You're certainly free to believe that if you want. As I said before, I disagree with you. I don't believe that you are correct in this matter.

me too I disagree with you as well.

jcross19:
now in revelation 12 vs 4 says with his tail he DRAGGED a third of the stars out of sky and THREW them down to the earth. now look at this two words dragged and threw are in past tense meaning the event have taken place in the past. now the word "his tail" mean he 'deceived' , stars in the sentence mean the host of heavens, mighty of heavenly beings.

I would think that "his tail", and "stars" in the sentence, and the "host of heavens" and the "mighty of heavenly beings", referred to the sinning angels who were "destroyed", and not in any way a destruction of the earth or the universe, which when God created them, were good, according to Genesis 1.

I guess I'm imagining the supposedly "ruined" whatever it was some claimed was ruined was not very dissimilar to the current earth and universe, at least in magnitude, and I just can't see anything to make me think God would get so furious as to slam Jupiter, Saturn and all the other planets and stars in to earth to ruin it in some silly infantile rage.