Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? - Religion - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? (1741 Views)
What It Truly Means To Be Born Again / If You Were Born Into A Christian Home, You Are Forever Saved, Except / When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? (2) (3) (4)
| Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Gideon97(m): 2:56am On Sep 20, 2019 |
Let's have a civil discussion. 1 Like
|
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by BarrElChapo(m): 3:01am On Sep 20, 2019 |
I serve the Living God.. Alleluia !  |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by CAPSLOCKED: 9:21am On Sep 20, 2019 |
Gideon97: YOU WILL GET A BETTER DISCUSSION ON THIS SUBJECT WITH A STICK INSTEAD OF WITH MOST CHRISTIANS. 8 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 4:03pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
Gideon97:Hello again. Is it your opinion then that all those who are Christians were born into the Faith? |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by malvisguy212: 7:41pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
Gideon97:if you are confused about religion, then FOCUS on Jesus, ALL religion reference Him . He is the center of ALL RELIGION. this should be your first step. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by TVSA: 8:28pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
malvisguy212: how is Jesus the center of all religion? 7 Likes 1 Share
|
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by malvisguy212: 9:08pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
TVSA:all religion speak highly of Him. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Gideon97(m): 9:24pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Not all, but majority. It is not my opinion, it is statistical FACT that majority of people who believe in a religion where born into it. So majority of those who are Christian were born into faith 1 Like |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Gideon97(m): 9:26pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
malvisguy212: All religions speak highly of Jesus? Can you give an example of a non Abrahamic religion (anyother than islam,judiasm and Christianity) that speaks hihly of Jesus? 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by malvisguy212: 9:44pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
Gideon97:Jews believe Jesus was Mary’s son, was a teacher (Rabbi), had many disciples, was respected, performed miracles, claimed to be the Messiah and was crucified on the cross. They also acknowledge His followers reported Jesus was raised from the dead. Muslims believe Jesus was born of a virgin, is to be revered and respected, was a prophet, a wise teacher who worked miracles, ascended to heaven, and will come again. Ahmadiyya Muslims believe Jesus may have been born of a virgin, was a prophet and wise teacher, worked miracles, and was crucified on a cross.. Bahá’í believe Jesus came from God, was a wise teacher who had a divine and human nature, worked miracles, and was crucified and resurrected as an atonement for humanity. Hindus believe Jesus was a holy man, a wise teacher, and is a ‘god’. Buddhists believe Jesus was an enlightened man and a wise teacher. New Age believers maintain Jesus was a wise moral teacher. https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/who-is-jesus-according-to-other-religions/ |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by TVSA: 11:15pm On Sep 20, 2019 |
malvisguy212:How does the Ifa priest in my village speak highly of Jesus? or Amadioha worshippers speak highly of Jesus? did they know anything like Jesus before the whites came? warn yourself o  7 Likes 1 Share
|
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 7:56am On Sep 21, 2019 |
Gideon97:The way that logical and scientific reasoning works is in disagreement with your conclusion. If there is any exception to this rule that you purport, then perhaps your rule is wrong. If some people are Christians because they were born into the Faith (by which I understand you to mean that their parents were/are believers), while others are believers although they were not (that is, their parents were/are not believers), then there must be something else that makes people Christians. Added to the above is the fact also that many children born to believers do not even become believers themselves, much less remain one in the long term. Many besides them who do start out in such homes as believers don't remain believers in the long term. This further reduces the effect of being born to believing parents. In other words, although the spiritual leaning of parents does play a role in the choice that children make with respect to God, children still make a choice. Some choose to remain with the God of their parents, but others do not. Israel as a nation comes to mind. The nation was created by God because of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But their descendants were a very strong example of rebellious children. They repeatedly rebelled against their fathers' God, until God destroyed their nationhood too. Another very clear example is David and Solomon. David was a spectacular believer, but Solomon strayed from God very soon after his father died. Once he began to marry wives, not long after he finished building his father's God a splendid Palace, he started seeking out other gods to worship. This is all to show that where you are born does not force you to be that way. It does have a say, but that say is no more than a suggestion, an option that you can choose. Being human, we can seek out other options and embrace them. That is why even Canaanites, Egyptians, Ninevites, Ethiopians, and even Babylonians could come to become believers in spite of the "remoteness" of their culture from the God of all flesh. I think then that your claim is flawed. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by LordReed(m): 5:00pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
Apparently the god plays a more cruel Russian roulette. Instead of 1 bullet in a 6 chamber gun, it plays it with 5 bullets in a 6 chamber gun. LMFAO! |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Nobody: 6:49pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
There is nothing like luck in pure worship! Each and everyone must learn to embrace it and struggle really hard not to lose it. For instance, Mary was Jesus' mother yet Jesus said it doesn't matter! Matthew 12:46-49 compared to Luke 11:27-28 Jesus had at least six siblings yet only two {James and Judas} became Christians, while the others {Mary's children} perished! So pure worship has NOTHING to do with luck, each person must work really hard to secure it! Luke 13:24 God bless you! |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by frank317: 7:39pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
Maximus69: I think this is an insincere approach to the topic. If u are honest to ur self, u would agree that some people are luckier than others assuming one religion. Is actually the real one . For instance, if Christianity is the true religion... U would agree that a person born to a Nigerian Christian parents is luckier than a young man born in the heart of Saudi Arabia to a wealthy Muslim parents. Just what reason does a Muslim child in Saudi has to leave a religion he has known all his life for some Christian infidel religion from the west? 1 Like |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by frank317: 7:44pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: U don't need to talk much... Take a look at how different religion is spread a cross the world. It seems it is determine by a region that is known by a particular religion. I mean if what u are saying is the fact, We will have relatively equal spread across the globe 1 Like |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 7:54pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
frank317:I don't see how you reached that conclusion. Why would free will choice result in an even spread of religions? |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by frank317: 8:00pm On Sep 21, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Calling choice free really changes nothing if u want to look at the reality on ground. Choice (despite as free as u see them) are most times determined by other factors.. True or not? A poor girl raised in the ghetto where body hawking is the order of the day is more Likely to become a prostitutte than a girl trained to become a doctor when both face same kind of hardship. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 9:38am On Sep 22, 2019 |
frank317:In biblical theology, "likely," "chance," "luck," "fortune," and the like do not exist. Nor do they actually exist in reality. As long as poor girls raised in the ghetto have made different choices than what others like them have, it is enough proof that our wills are truly free. We all choose what we want to be with respect to God. The proof of that is clear in the fact that different people in the same situation choose different things. That is really all that matters. The fact that fewer people choose to trust God than choose not to in a given situation does not at all mean that our wills are hampered in any way. It only proves that the wickedness in the hearts of human beings is great indeed and that there are only few people who seek to submit to God in this world. That's it. Nothing restricts or hampers our free will in any way. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by frank317: 10:25pm On Sep 22, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: U are talking biblical theology, I am talking reality, what we have come to observe. So are u saying our choices in life are not determined by other external factors? Are u saying many people's decisions to be Christians or Muslims was not determined by the fact that they had Christian or Muslims up bringing? Different people in the same situation chose different things because they all have different factors in their lives that makes them make different choices. Stop arguing for argument sake. Many people are Christians because they were raised in Christian homes. That's a fact. We all chose what we want to be in respect of God because God has not revealed himself, giving people the opportunity to make up stories of what is real or not about him. Wickedness in the heart of men did not just fly in... It is as a result of desire to survive in a world of scarcity. People grow up in different environment which determines that they make different choices in both similar and different situations. I am not saying our free will is restricted or hampered... I am saying it is determined by other factors most times. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by BeLookingIDIOT(m): 8:37am On Sep 23, 2019 |
malvisguy212:Jews speak highly of Jesus  Have you read the Talmud? Historically,Jesus has arguably been the most hated figure in Judaism. Apart from Islam,all the other beliefs are just trying to be respectful.That doesn't mean He plays any central part in their beliefs. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 9:39am On Sep 23, 2019 |
frank317:First of all, biblical theology is reality. I understand that you disagree, but that's why I'm a Christian and you're not. Second, how have you actually observed "chance," "luck," "fate," "fortune," and the like? These things are merely explanations, not observations. I don't see how they are good explanations at all. If you do, by all means, explain to me how you do. frank317:I am saying that free will is truly free. We are not forced into choosing anything at all. As I said before, easy proof of that is in the fact that people in the same situations choose different things from each other. frank317:Whatever the reason that people choose to submit to the Lord or to persist in or return to rebellion against Him, they still freely choose it. We are beings capable of thought. We judge things in order to make decisions. The fact that we do so, that is, that we weigh and compare and evaluate things, does not mean that we do not make true decisions. One person may choose to submit to the Lord because they see their parents' example and consider it a good enough reason to follow it. Another may choose to rebel against the Lord because they see their parents' example and despise it. Same thing, different responses. frank317:I don't see how that is a real argument. I come from a large family. Two of us grew up with both our parents still married to each other, while the other eleven came from prior marriages our parents were in, which broke down. Between my younger brother and myself, I'm the one with this degree of commitment to the Truth of the Bible. Among the other eleven, at least two went to the other extreme, only stopping short of declaring themselves unbelievers, although they most certainly act like they are unbelievers. How much difference could there be that would force us to choose like we did? I chose what I chose in spite of incentive and threats advocating the contrary. Others chose as they did in the same way. Our circumstances and experiences are merely arguments urging us to choose this way or that. In the end, we rule just like a judge in a law court. We decide what we will be in relation to God, for reasons we consider most compelling. frank317:I would also urge you to do the same. Stop arguing just for the sake of argument. It is a foolish thing to do. If you don't like a position, reject it and move on. It is more than sufficient to state a case for why a position has been rejected or endorsed by you. You don't need to waste time and energy badgering someone else with what you think that they must accept as true. frank317:Obviously, it is no kind of fact that people don't have a choice once they are born to believing parents. As I said in my second response on the thread, plenty enough people reject their parents' example and become unbelievers. What kind of home you are born into does not guarantee or determine your choice. Were you born to atheists yourself? frank317:What you want to believe is up to you. I don't see any reason in what you said to believe that God has not sufficiently revealed Himself. He built a universe that in every respect witnesses to His Existence and His Nature. He did not consider it needful to also stand personally before everyone who rejects that witness so that they can believe. In fact, considering that He is Reality itself, it is impossible to be able to deny Him and refuse to submit to Him when He unveils Himself fully, so it is best for those who are still being tested to be kept from seeing Him in some undeniable way. Those who choose to submit to Him must do so without undue pressure. That is, we must choose freely. Therefore, we have a real opportunity to do so without being forced by His Undeniable Manifestation. frank317:As for your claim about the origin of wickedness, I see no justification for it. The world wasn't always like this. Before Adam sinned, the Earth was perfect. Man had everything he needed in abundance. There was no lack or scarcity. That was the environment in which wickedness was born. It was because of the wicked choice to rebel that Adam made that the Earth was cursed so that it is now full of pain and lack. In other words, it's really the other way around: scarcity and pain exist as a result of human wickedness as God's judgment upon it. frank317:We are all in the same situation really. Nobody is so wealthy or privileged in this world that they don't know pain or suffering. Nobody is so miserable that they don't know pleasure of any sort at all. Our material circumstances are truly different from one another, true, but the sum of them amounts to the same thing for each of us: is there any pleasure worth rebelling against God for? Or any suffering that can indict God in our eyes? That is what each of us has to decide. Some people are born into wealth and privilege, and they have fairly easy lives, and they give God the glory for it. Some people are born into penury and desperation, and they glorify God in spite of it. Some of us transit from one to another more than once in our lives and still glorify God for or in spite of it. But there are those for whom no amount of comfort and blessing in this life makes God worthy of glory in their eyes, and there are those who cannot be humbled by any degree of suffering, no matter how great it may be. Our circumstances allow us to demonstrate how we really see God, so while they vary from person to person, they do not affect the freedom of our will at all. frank317:As for what you are saying, the two things are actually the same. If our choices are determined by anything other than ourselves, then they are not freely made, thus our free will is hampered. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by malvisguy212: 9:44am On Sep 23, 2019 |
BeLookingIDIOT:the Jews did not accept Him as there messiah , yes. but Jesus being hated by the Jews ? can you prove it ? |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by frank317: 4:35pm On Sep 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Reality how? How has it explained why we have 90% of Muslims in area where we know that's what the worship. Reality is telling me that it is so because that's how most of them was brought up, ur theology is telling u it is so because the devil possess them to be Muslims.
Hear urself... Explanation to what? To things that has never been observed? What do u mean by 'not obsevertions? How can u have an explanation without observation? We call a phenomena luck because of the circumstance is occurred... I don't think I need to explain further because u have used the word a couple of times too.
And I am saying that ur so called free will has a lot of determinants, how is this difficult for u to understand? And who us talking about force? Smh
Now u understand... Ya, also add that some people might have GOOD reason for not freely choosing to be Christians, example, someone whose father brings up in the way of Islam and is being told Christianity is not the right religion, has all the good reasons to freely reject Christianity. The freewill of choice is not even the issue here.. The reason behind the choice is what we are considering.
Like I said, reason behind freely willed choice is what I am considering, especially in case of the OP... Do u think a Muslim who refuses to be a Christian because he believes in his fathers religion has done wrong? Why will u be born in the truth religion and another in the wrong religion? Is it fair? Yet u have not even shown ur own religion is the truth.
There he goes crying like a baby. How much energy exactly have I wasted trying to get an issue clear with u? How amd I wasting so my h energy here and u are not. Well based on this... I will stop here and let u be. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Ihedinobi3: 8:55am On Sep 24, 2019 |
frank317:1. As I said, I don't agree with you about reality. I think it is too obvious that people do not necessarily stay with their upbringing. They change according to what they decide that they want. That is reality. 2. I meant explanations of events of life. When someone says that it is luck that some people are saved because they are born to Christian parents, that is not an observation. The observation is merely that some people who are saved were also born to believing parents. That is all. To say that it is luck that they are saved because they were born to such parents is to attempt to explain their salvation. That explanation can be false, and in fact, it is, since there is no such thing as luck. 3. You and I often have difficulties with words. You tend to use words ignoring their meaning. If anything determines our choices except ourselves, then we do not really choose. 4. Free will means that if you are brought up in a religion, you possess the ability to question your upbringing and seek to confirm that it represented the truth of life correctly. So, if one is brought up in Islam, as you said, then they would have the ability to ask if Islam is really true, if they decide that it matters to them to know. That is how pretty much everyone is saved. 5. Nobody is, in fact, born into any religion. What actually happens is that we are born to parents who may or may not believe in Jesus Christ. That means that we all grow up with our parents telling us that things are really a certain way rather than another. As children, we do trust our parents, but we also regale them with questions about life. Depending on our preferred attitude to Truth and the quality of their answers, we may or may not go outside our parents' influence in search of the Truth or for some alternative to the Truth. We all do that. As for showing that Jesus Christ is the Truth, I have absolutely no need to do that any more than I already have. It's not my responsibility to make you believe anything that you don't want to believe. 6. I have only been answering your questions and challenges; I was not the one who challenged or question you. And I was answering your own complaint that I was arguing too much. That is, I gave you a taste of your own medicine. Clearly, you don't like it much. To be clear, I don't mind your arguments. I'm happy enough to answer them as long as they are worth answering, but you appear to just be trying hard to shut me up. I was only telling you that you are wasting your time. Even if you killed me, you couldn't escape the things I say. 7. Cheers. |
| Re: Aren't You Lucky To Be Born Into The Right Religion And Other Weren't? by Nobody: 9:55am On Sep 24, 2019 |
frank317: Well that's not the case Sir! Jesus sent us out to search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, this means there are people are honest hearted and sincere. When such persons hears something that's worth embracing, they will look for all means to keep it. On the other hand, children born into Christian homes are more prone to destruction in the sense that most of them will still make a lot of sacrifices as well to remain in the global family. Failure to do so means they're parents have wasted them! That is why you can't hear of Christians jubilating for giving birth to a child in the Bible, but they rejoice greatly when someone becomes a Christian. This is because they've realised that rearing children when there's Satanic influence everywhere is like investing on a business that's not certain! They prefer to have spiritual children (those they adopt after converting them) than those they born themselves who may not really value their effort as they may likely not be able to provide all that the child WANT! It's misinformed churchgoer's idea that the child belongs to them, to a true Christian every single child belongs to God. Therefore all those treating people badly simply because they're not responsible for their birth will not inherit God's kingdom! So there is nothing like being lucky in Christianity! A child born into the Muslim home in any country only need a presentation from member of true Christians {Jehovah's Witnesses}. If he is one of Jesus' sheep, he won't feel comfortable again after hearing the message about God's kingdom until he makes the truth his own. Of course his people will severely persecute him for choosing a foreign religion, but if he remain faithful to the end Jesus will surely resurrect him to live forever with other faithful worshippers in Paradise! God bless you! |
(1) (Reply)
London Stops Ashimolowo’s N16bn Church / 'satan-worshippers' Held Over 'blood' Party / Be A Man. Ted Bundy's Interview On His Life And p0rnographY
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 115 |