Yujin:

Lol. The other adjectives I may not dispute but as for cunning and unaccomodating, that's not true. The problem is that Igbos don't like weaklings and if you appear so then you will think they are cunning and unaccommodating because they are treat you as someone they don't want. Weaklings are weak links. If you prove your worth they'll respect you and welcome you as a man. Many of those who do businesses with Igbos can attest to this. Well, thread is about demography so let me stop here.

When I say CUNNING here, I don't mean it in the kind of 'Yoruba backstabbing manner'..... It's more like people trying to outsmart other people.
Igbos always try to outsmart others in all their dealings.
As for being unaccomodating, I guess this should be the spillover effect of the small land mass in Igbo land hence making land very precious and expensive.
If settlers cannot easily acquire lands, then it would be very difficult for them to come over to settle.

pazienza:


Lol!
The entire Arab nations think Jews are evil, many Caucasian think same too, does it mean they are right? Far from it. The entire Nigeria ganged up against Ndiigbo once, so no surprises they all share similar sentiments about us. They are all on same boat, be they Christian, Muslim,SS, WW, NN or whatever.

Stop talking ignorantly. All Arabs have a similar culture, value system and agenda and Israel came to take their lands from them.
Europeans disliked Jews because Jews came to their lands and refused to integrate. However, this has seriously declined as is discouraged massively by same Europeans.
In the case of Igbos, how related are the Yorubas, Hausas, middlebelters and Niger deltans for all of them to have problems with Igbos?

Even Igbos are tired of Igbos, to show you how terrible the situation is.
Many Aniomas & Ikwerres who are Igbos can fight you just for calling them Igbos. An Ndokwa friend of mine insulted and shouted at me for insisting that she is Igbo. Imagine!

I said God forbid Ndiigbo be likened to groups up North, how exactly is that pride? We are simply different from them and they are different from us, in many many ways. We just want to be Igbo and not compared to anyone else in Nigeria.

Do you think you are talking to children? You show disgust by saying God forbid for juxtaposing you with another tribe for some attributes you yourself agree to and you are asking how that is pride. Are you listening to yourself?

The idea of Ndiigbo being unaccommodating of others is a lie Igbophobic entities spinned and spread.
Igboland post civil war was carefully and strategically stripped of FG and multinational corporations presence.
What exactly will be bringing a non Igbo to Igboland? Most businesses here are indigenous and we try to employ our teeming youth population. The markets here are very competitive even for an Igbo, you can imagine for a non Igbo.The kind of business outsiders can do here are those we are not good at. Like Yorubas tailors control a sizeable market share of cloth sewing business in SE, Aba inclusive. When I was in Aba, my tailor was a Yoruba man, he has been there for years and own a very big shop. Then you have the Yoruba "Agbo" sellers .
The Hausa with their Cow meat business are all over Igbo land as well.

We can agree that places like Lagos, Kaduna, Warri, PH, Ibadan & maybe Kano had FG presence and investments. I don't even see any of that in Kano.
However, can you list the multinational corporations and FG benefits in Jos, Maiduguri, Ilorin, Benin e.t.c that made these places cosmopolitan? I am waiting.

Just like you said, below, Land is very scarce and expensive in the SE and for me, I think this is one major reason settlers are discouraged from staying in the SE

Our Land mass is small so land prices here even in rural Igbo villages are costly in comparison to other parts of Nigeria, so when you tell a non Igbo the price of land here to establish a business, he thinks you are deliberately trying to chase him away, when in truth the price is same for everyone in Igboland who wants to buy a land. The realization of how cheap lands are outside Igboland is one of the reasons that drive the Igbo ultra drive in buying landed property outside Igboland, which envious natives would turn to Igbo man trying to dominate and rule them, once they (Indigenes) were done embezzling the money they got from land sales.

Nevertheless we have Hausas and Yorubas here, and we don't kill visitors like they do in North over religious issues, neither do we carry placards asking visitors to leave like they do in Lagos, unless in case of Fulani herdsmen whose killing spree all over Nigeria is well known. Our leaders don't threaten visitors with drowning in the lagoon as well or use touts to bully them from voting in elections. Yet we are supposed to be the intolerant ones, right? Clap for yourselves, of course we are not as accommodating as other Nigerians if the above is your definition of accommodation.

Visitors are not an issue in Igbo land because they are very very few. Wait until you have a city in Igbo land where over 30% of the population are non- Igbos, then you can beat your chest.

I used to control a large supply of a commodity to some of the major markets in Warri...
Physically I am thick, stout and light chocolate complexion, hence people easily assume I am an Igbo guy and some of the Igbo traders there speak Igbo to me at first meeting, thinking I am an Igbo.
I noticed how disappointing it was for some of these Igbos when I tell them I am not Igbo.
One Igbo lady trader spoke in a condescending manner when I jokingly told her I was Urhobo. She just could not accept me being Urhobo. She insisted I was Igbo.
This is because in her small mind she couldn't accept how an Urhobo will be more influential than them in the market, controlling a major supply of that commodity in the market! And the funny thing is that the market is in Urhobo land.

Now, Imagine if this was in Aba or Onitsha. They will definitely gang up against me.

I have heard this from traders even in markets outside Igbo land that if Igbos are in a market, they do everything possible to send out other tribes packing from that market. And if they are already the dominant there, they will never allow others to even come in.
Now if things like this can be happening outside Igbo land, then only heaven knows what will be happening in Igbo land.

Cc oilpussy, Selemempe, scholes0

pazienza:


It is not 50-50. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
It's closer to 60-40, if not worse. Ekiti and Ondo don't have overwhelmingly Christian population. The Yoruba Muslims there are quite substantial. You forgot Ondo is close to Northern Edo, which on its own is a Muslim enclave.
I have been to rural Ondo, and they all have mosques littered all over the place.
I will say Xtians in Ondo edge it by 65-35 to Muslims. But Muslims there are still substantial.

Yorubas on the majority are Muslims. This is a reality one face once you visit rural Yoruba enclaves.

scholes0:


Please what in the world is 'rural Yoruba'?
Simply state where you lived in Yorubaland and let us discuss the religious peculiarities of the so called place.
Take Ondo state for example, you will find mosques in Ikare town but won't find maybe even 1 in Ilaje local government or Ese Odo.

Ondo and Ekiti are not 35% muslim like you fallaciously stated. I don't know how you manage to do it so effortlessly but you just seem to have this special ability to pull figures out of your bare black a.ss! Ondo has more muslims than Ekiti and Ondo is prolly around 20% islamic at most.

Thank you very much. Pazienza and some other Igbos here keep on throwing facts around like they are talking to ignorant illiterates.

Let him tell us the areas in rural yoruba he visited. See him claiming Ekiti is 35% muslim. Same Ekiti where it is very difficult to find an indigenous community that is predominantly muslim. Majority of the muslims in Ekiti state are even settlers from other parts of Yorubaland. To see an indigenous Ekiti family that are muslims is very rare.
In Ondo, only the Akoko and a part of Ore axis have significant muslims. Many communities in Ondo state do not even have a mosque.

See him claiming that Northern Edo is a muslim enclave .... Is it only Etsako west LGA among 6 LGAs that will make Edo north a muslim enclave?
Cos as it stands now, only Etsako west LGA still has a muslim majority in Edo state. Etsako east is now overwhelmingly christian while Etsako central is now predominantly christian. Even Etsako west where Auchi town is located is now becoming 50/50.
My brother's wife and business partner is from Etsako west so I know this place very well. These people are leaving islam very rapidly. My brother's wife was from a muslim family of about 24 children, they all practiced islam while growing up, but today, all of them are christians except 1 of them.

One thing I have observed is that Igbos are a very emotional and sentimental people. They are not happy that muslims dominate Nigeria, hence they think by rubbing it in the faces of we christians from other tribes, it will make us hate Nigeria more.

@Pazienza, JohnDon12, Yujin & co.
I am a christian from the middlebelt. I already dislike the core-north and resent their domination of Nigeria. I am also tired of the country and wish it dissolves or be restructured. However, I will not use lies or sentimental blackmail in order to see to this. Thank you.

scholes0:


Please what in the world is 'rural Yoruba'?
Simply state where you lived in Yorubaland and let us discuss the religious peculiarities of the so called place.
Take Ondo state for example, you will find mosques in Ikare town but won't find maybe even 1 in Ilaje local government or Ese Odo.

Ondo and Ekiti are not 35% muslim like you fallaciously stated. I don't know how you manage to do it so effortlessly but you just seem to have this special ability to pull figures out of your bare black a.ss! Ondo has more muslims than Ekiti and Ondo is prolly around 20% islamic at most.

I lived in rural part of Ondo for nearly two years.
And yes! There are many Muslims in Ondo. You are simply playing the ostrich.
I don't have official stats, but that's how it seemed to me. It was a cultural shock to me seeing too many women on Hijab, especially that "Ninja" style of Hijab, in Akure metropolis.

Ilaje and Ese odo are mainly riverine communities, with culture close to Delta state.

Bottom line is that Yorubaland is an Islam enclave.
It's intriguing to an Igbo like me coming there for first time, considering how Yoruba pastors have commercialized Christianity. You would think Yorubaland is a Christian strong hold, when the opposite is the case.

Nowenuse:

In Ondo, only the Akoko and a part of Ore axis have significant muslims. Many communities in Ondo state do not even have a mosque

I doubt if there are any communities in Ondo without a mosque.
Even places like Idanre, Bolorunduro, Okitipupa, etc all have mosques.

See him claiming that Northern Edo is a muslim enclave .... Is it only Etsako west LGA among 6 LGAs that will make Edo north a muslim enclave?
Cos as it stands now, only Etsako west LGA still has a muslim majority in Edo state. Etsako east is now overwhelmingly christian while Etsako central is now predominantly christian. Even Etsako west where Auchi town is located is now becoming 50/50.
My brother's wife and business partner is from Etsako west so I know this place very well. These people are leaving islam very rapidly. My brother's wife was from a muslim family of about 24 children, they all practiced islam while growing up, but today, all of them are christians except 1 of them.

Edo North is a Muslim enclave.
Going to places like Igarra, Okpella, Auchi, etc for first time, was like a cultural shock to me.
Too many native women on Hijab.

One thing I have observed is that Igbos are a very emotional and sentimental people. They are not happy that muslims dominate Nigeria, hence they think by rubbing it in the faces of we christians from other tribes, it will make us hate Nigeria more.

Modern Igbo are pragmatic. History taught us a great lesson. We see no difference between NN, SS,, WW, NC, SW, NE, etc. Whether Christians or Muslims, you lots are united by Igbophobia. Gowon was a Christian, and the Tiv and Idoma people who ambushed some of us at Makurdi in 1966, were all Christians. You all are same with the Caliphate. So to us, Nigeria is a Muslim dominant country. There is no scaremongering here. This is just us being stone cold plain and acceptance of reality.

@Pazienza, JohnDon12, Yujin & co.
I am a christian from the middlebelt. I already dislike the core-north and resent their domination of Nigeria. I am also tired of the country and wish it dissolves or be restructured. However, I will not use lies or sentimental blackmail in order to see to this. Thank you.

Good for you. Do well to handle your issues with your fellow Northerners or Nigerians. Leave Ndiigbo out of it.
We are Ndiigbo not Christians. Christianity is only a secondary part of us.

Nowenuse :

When I say CUNNING here, I don't mean it in the kind of 'Yoruba backstabbing manner'..... It's more like people trying to outsmart other people.
Igbos always try to outsmart others in all their dealings.
As for being unaccomodating, I guess this should be the spillover effect of the small land mass in Igbo land hence making land very precious and expensive.
If settlers cannot easily acquire lands, then it would be very difficult for them to come over to settle.

Stop talking ignorantly. All Arabs have a similar culture, value system and agenda and Israel came to take their lands from them.
Europeans disliked Jews because Jews came to their lands and refused to integrate. However, this has seriously declined as is discouraged massively by same Europeans.
In the case of Igbos, how related are the Yorubas, Hausas, middlebelters and Niger deltans for all of them to have problems with Igbos?

Even Igbos are tired of Igbos, to show you how terrible the situation is.
Many Aniomas & Ikwerres who are Igbos can fight you just for calling them Igbos. An Ndokwa friend of mine insulted and shouted at me for insisting that she is Igbo. Imagine!

You think Arabs are not related to Jews? Even the Bible will tell you that Abraham/Ibraham gave birth to both Jews and Arabs. Even in Israel today, there are Arab Israelis and vice versa.
Ndiigbo have nothing in common with Hausa or Yoruba in any form. Niger delta? That's an amorphous word, because even they themselves have problems amongst themselves. The Bini vs Ijaw for Gelegele, the Urhobo vs Itsekiri for Warri. The Itsekiri vs Ijaw, etc. They have issues within themselves as well. They are a modern day babel.
Igbos fought a war with virtually the entire Nigeria. So there you have it.

The Ndokwas, Ikwerre, Ogba, etc are learners. They are only repeating history in bid to escape from Igbophobic vibes their non Igbo speaking neighbors are sending towards them. Many Manchurians after their lost power in China and became blamed by Hans for China problems, started denying their Manchurian origins to fit into anti Manchurian China now controlled by the Hans.
The British Royalty changed their German family name to avoid being linked to Germany, after Germany lost their first world war. Ndokwa and co are only reacting to your Igbophobia, they do not want to be given the Igbo treatment. You made it hard for them to accept who they are. It happens when a people lose a war.

"The war aim and (final) solution properly speaking
of the entire problem, is to discriminate against the
Igbos and in their own interest. Such discrimination
would include above all the detachment of those
oil-rich territories in the Eastern Region, in
addition, the Igbos' freedom of movement would be
restricted, to prevent their renewed penetration intoother parts, leaving any access to the sea to the Igbos is quite out of the question "

(FederalNigerian Minister speaking to E. C.
Schwarzenback, Swiss Review of Africa, February
1968).

The above is what it means to be Igbo, you can understand why Ndokwa and co are hell bent on escaping from such yorke. They are not first in history

Do you think you are talking to children? You show disgust by saying God forbid for juxtaposing you with another tribe for some attributes you yourself agree to and you are asking how that is pride. Are you listening to yourself?

The Eggon you talked about are nothing like Igbo. They are cunning, non accommodating , etc. Those are not Igbo traits. So yes! God forbid.

We can agree that places like Lagos, Kaduna, Warri, PH, Ibadan & maybe Kano had FG presence and investments. I don't even see any of that in Kano.
However, can you list the multinational corporations and FG benefits in Jos, Maiduguri, Ilorin, Benin e.t.c that made these places cosmopolitan? I am waiting.

Benin was capital of multi ethnic Bendel state. Many Anioma, Urhobo, Itsekiri, whose fathers were civil servants in Bini city capital of old Bendel, stayed behind. It's akin to the high population of Anambra and Ebonyi,people in Enugu state, because it was once the capital of old Anambra state. That's how my own parents came to Enugu as well. Ilorin is a capital of multi ethnic Kwara state, with Fulani, Yoruba, Nupe, etc, all present.
Maiduguri was once the capital of an old state comprising Adamawa, Taraba, etc. Those states have many minority states.
Jos the tin city attracted many Igbo and other southern groups to the town. After the boom of Tin, many of these families stayed behind. Also old Plateau with Jos as capital included states like Nasarawa, so many groups from there are still there.


Just like you said, below, Land is very scarce and expensive in the SE and for me, I think this is one major reason settlers are discouraged from staying in the SE

Visitors are not an issue in Igbo land because they are very very few. Wait until you have a city in Igbo land where over 30% of the population are non- Igbos, then you can beat your chest.

I doubt there will be any problems, so long as they pay their rent and invest in the land like Igbos do when they migrate.

used to control a large supply of a commodity to some of the major markets in Warri...
Physically I am thick, stout and light chocolate complexion, hence people easily assume I am an Igbo guy and some of the Igbo traders there speak Igbo to me at first meeting, thinking I am an Igbo.
I noticed how disappointing it was for some of these Igbos when I tell them I am not Igbo.
One Igbo lady trader spoke in a condescending manner when I jokingly told her I was Urhobo. She just could not accept me being Urhobo. She insisted I was Igbo.
This is because in her small mind she couldn't accept how an Urhobo will be more influential than them in the market, controlling a major supply of that commodity in the market! And the funny thing is that the market is in Urhobo land.

I believe it's your innate Igbo prejudice messing with your head. She is probably dissapointed she couldn't use Igbo familiarity to gain cheap favours from you. Not necessarily disappointed that you are not Igbo. She simply think that chances of getting favorable financial dealings with you might be difficult, now that you are not Igbo, and will not give her any special considerations. She is looking at profit lost, you are looking at tribe.

Now, Imagine if this was in Aba or Onitsha. They will definitely gang up against me.

Nothing like this. You lots can't make up your mind about Ndiigbo, you are constantly looking to pin dirt on us. In one minute, you claim we are not united, in another, you claim we too tribal and united . Then you claim we are too much in love with money, then when it suits your narrative like the above, you spin it again.

Let me tell you. If you offer more money for rent on a shop than an Igbo in Onitsha. The Shop owner will chase away the current Igbo occupant for you to enter. And if you sell cheaper than other Igbo neighbours in that shop, or offer superior services, Igbo buyers will prefer to buy from you. We are business people who don't mix business with sentiments. This already contradicts the point you are making above.

I have heard this from traders even in markets outside Igbo land that if Igbos are in a market, they do everything possible to send out other tribes packing from that market. And if they are already the dominant there, they will never allow others to even come in.
Now if things like this can be happening outside Igbo land, then only heaven knows what will be happening in Igbo land.

How exactly do they not allow others come in?

By paying more for the shops than others can. By offering customers cheaper and better services than others can, thereby running others out of the market. By doing "Oso ahia ", where they go to the market entrance and practically woo buyers into their shops, while non Igbos are starved of customers because they prefer to stay in their shops than face humiliation of wooing many at times unwilling customers to their shops.

By use of "Igba Odibo", where every single trader was trained in the art of business management by a superior successful mentor, who also lease some of his customers to the "Odibo" to enable him survive early days, while non Igbos who jumped into the trade without prior training or experience soon run out of funds and fold up, the Igbos survive and dominate the market.
Rather to have a retrospection on why they failed in the business, the non Igbos go about spinning hate stories of how the Igbos used tribalism to chase them out of the market, even when the customers are not Igbos.

Cc oilpussy, Selemempe, scholes0

pazienza:


I lived in rural part of Ondo for nearly two years.
And yes! There are many Muslims in Ondo. You are simply playing the ostrich.
I don't have official stats, but that's how it seemed to me. It was a cultural shock to me seeing too many women on Hijab, especially that "Ninja" style of Hijab, in Akure metropolis.

Ilaje and Ese odo are mainly riverine communities, with culture close to Delta state.

Bottom line is that Yorubaland is an Islam enclave.
It's intriguing to an Igbo like me coming there for first time, considering how Yoruba pastors have commercialized Christianity. You would think Yorubaland is a Christian strong hold, when the opposite is the case.

And how exactly am I playing ostrich? I haven't said there were no muslims in Ondo state. As a matter of fact, I even said Ondo has more muslims than Ekiti and pegged the figure at 20%. I even mentioned towns and places in Ondo state that have muslims in significant numbers. How then is it a surprise that Akure had people in hijab or burqa since THERE ARE muslims in the state? Besides, Akure is cosmopolitan. The only issue I see here is that you are coming from a place where virtually 100% practices some form of christianity so yes 20% is a LOT to you, I can clearly see how that could be a cultural shock to you. Besides, the so called Yoruba pastors that you claim have commercialized christianity do not claim that Yorubaland is a christian enclave or anything like that. On the contrary, some of them are even muslim converts who became christians and even popular pastors, they are many. Similar to pastor suleman from afemai land who is now also a popular pastor.

You on the other hand, are the one playing ostrich; burying your head in the sand by very cleverly countering all the points that others have raised about igbos with carefully planned and laid out responses. Bravo! you successfully absolved Igbos of all the accusations and observations that Nigerians have been making since pre colonial times from Oba erediauwa to Saro wiwa to Sardauna of Sokoto. You people are just the perfect 'merry going jolly' people and the most innocent people perfect to have as country mates aren't you now?

You don't know what an enclave is do you? Another Igbo claimed that Edos were half muslim and that Edo North was a muslim enclave when in reality I doubt Edo is even 20% Muslim. You even said Ondo was supposed to be heavily muslim because parts of the state is close to Edo North that is virtually muslim when in reality, save for some towns like Warrake, Auchi, Aviele, Jattu and a few other places with a muslim majority, muslims are not even 30% of Edo North as a whole talk less the entire state being half muslim.

You people have a way of exaggerating your claims for whatever reasons.

This is the religious composition of the SW from the 1963 census which was one of the only few times that religious data was ever included in our census data, and this is what it reveals for the time:

The old Ondo province was 12.3% muslim and 78.6% christian at the time while the remaining 9.1% were traditionalists, if that remaining % have converted to xtianity or Islam by now in the same ratio and rate of conversion, then Ondo indigenes should be at least 86.x% christian by now and about 13.x% muslim (and that is even ignoring cross religious conversions between xtianity and islam), but since Ekiti was part of the old Ondo and is slightly more christian by composition, Ondo should have slightly more when the numbers are adjusted for new state creation, Ondo should be probably around 18% muslim give or take.

[img]http:///65535/47945819521_43c554bc16_b.jpg[/img]

Even the old Oyo that is now the present Osun Oyo states minus Ibadan which was a division of its own, they were 46.6% christian, 41.8% muslim and 11.6% traditionalists in '63. And people would usually say this was a heavily muslim region.

SW Yorubaland as a whole was half christian (49.3%) and about half muslim (42.4%) and 8.3% traditionalists.
And this was that far back. I wonder what the figures are now, no one really knows!

Back your claims that SW is a 'Muslim enclave' apart from the random facts that you saw plenty mosques and women in hijab in Akure metropolis.
An enclave that isn't even half muslim? Don't make me laugh.

cc: Nowenuse

scholes0:


The way people throw around millions in the Nigerian online space ehhn... you would think they were talking about thousands ni.
Someone will just wake up one day and tell you there are at least 2 million Igbos in Kano and another 1.5 million in Kaduna , without even understanding the real life implications of that.
Assuming Kano state was 10 million.... do y'all know what 2 million Igbos there means not even factoring in all other tribes of Nigeria.

smh

Lol. I just tire oo my brother

scholes0:


And how exactly am I playing ostrich? I haven't said there were no muslims in Ondo state. As a matter of fact, I even said Ondo has more muslims than Ekiti and pegged the figure at 20%. I even mentioned towns and places in Ondo state that have muslims in significant numbers. How then is it a surprise that Akure had people in hijab or burqa since THERE ARE muslims in the state? Besides, Akure is cosmopolitan. The only issue I see here is that you are coming from a place where virtually 100% practices some form of christianity so yes 20% is a LOT to you, I can clearly see how that could be a cultural shock to you. Besides, the so called Yoruba pastors that you claim have commercialized christianity do not claim that Yorubaland is a christian enclave or anything like that. On the contrary, some of them are even muslim converts who became christians and even popular pastors, they are many. Similar to pastor suleman from afemai land who is now also a popular pastor.

You on the other hand, are the one playing ostrich; burying your head in the sand by very cleverly countering all the points that others have raised about igbos with carefully planned and laid out responses. Bravo! you successfully absolved Igbos of all the accusations and observations that Nigerians have been making since pre colonial times from Oba erediauwa to Saro wiwa to Sardauna of Sokoto. You people are just the perfect 'merry going jolly' people and the most innocent people perfect to have as country mates aren't you now?

You don't know what an enclave is do you? Another Igbo claimed that Edos were half muslim and that Edo North was a muslim enclave when in reality I doubt Edo is even 20% Muslim. You even said Ondo was supposed to be heavily muslim because parts of the state is close to Edo North that is virtually muslim when in reality, save for some towns like Warrake, Auchi, Aviele, Jattu and a few other places with a muslim majority, muslims are not even 30% of Edo North as a whole talk less the entire state being half muslim.

You people have a way of exaggerating your claims for whatever reasons.

This is the religious composition of the SW from the 1963 census which was one of the only few times that religious data was ever included in our census data, and this is what it reveals for the time:

The old Ondo province was 12.3% muslim and 78.6% christian at the time while the remaining 9.1% were traditionalists, if that remaining % have converted to xtianity or Islam by now in the same ratio and rate of conversion, then Ondo indigenes should be at least 86.x% christian by now and about 13.x% muslim (and that is even ignoring cross religious conversions between xtianity and islam), but since Ekiti was part of the old Ondo and is slightly more christian by composition, Ondo should have slightly more when the numbers are adjusted for new state creation, Ondo should be probably around 18% muslim give or take.

[img]http:///65535/47945819521_43c554bc16_b.jpg[/img]

Even the old Oyo that is now the present Osun Oyo states minus Ibadan which was a division of its own, they were 46.6% christian, 41.8% muslim and 11.6% traditionalists in '63. And people would usually say this was a heavily muslim region.

SW Yorubaland as a whole was half christian (49.3%) and about half muslim (42.4%) and 8.3% traditionalists.
And this was that far back. I wonder what the figures are now, no one really knows!

Back your claims that SW is a 'Muslim enclave' apart from the random facts that you saw plenty mosques and women in hijab in Akure metropolis.
An enclave that isn't even half muslim? Don't make me laugh.

cc: Nowenuse

Thank you very much. Just like you said, people like Pazienza who were probably used to living in areas that were 99% christian, if they visit a place that has a significant muslim minority, then end up concluding it is a muslim enclave.
That means, if people like them visit the core north or a place that is like 75% muslim, they may end up swearing that christians don't exist in those places.

It is all about perception. Nothing else.

For anybody to claim that Edo north is a muslim enclave just because of Etsako west LGA, then that person is not worth arguing with on issues like this.
Just like you said, Muslims are not even up to half of Edo north, talkless of Edo state as a whole.
Muslims are like 25% in Edo north now, and like 10% or less in the whole Edo state now. Yet you see Igbos on nairaland telling you that Edo state is 50/50

pazienza:
Nowenuse :

You think Arabs are not related to Jews? Even the Bible will tell you that Abraham/Ibraham gave birth to both Jews and Arabs. Even in Israel today, there are Arab Israelis and vice versa.

Arabs and Jews are related by ancestry, but they don't share common values.

Ndiigbo have nothing in common with Hausa or Yoruba in any form.

Don't feel to high and important. Nobody asked you if Igbos have anything in common with Hausa or Yorubas.
What I said is that middlebelters, Niger deltans, Yorubas & Hausas who are not a similar group of people all share same beliefs about Igbos. If everyone else from different values & cultures have a problem with you, then you are the problem.

Niger delta? That's an amorphous word, because even they themselves have problems amongst themselves. The Bini vs Ijaw for Gelegele, the Urhobo vs Itsekiri for Warri. The Itsekiri vs Ijaw, etc. They have issues within themselves as well. They are a modern day babel.
Igbos fought a war with virtually the entire Nigeria. So there you have it.

Who ever said the Niger deltans were soul mates? Stop creating an argument where it doesn't exist. Even indigenes of the same village fight each other, let alone different ethnic groups.

The Ndokwas, Ikwerre, Ogba, etc are learners. They are only repeating history in bid to escape from Igbophobic vibes their non Igbo speaking neighbors are sending towards them. Many Manchurians after their lost power in China and became blamed by Hans for China problems, started denying their Manchurian origins to fit into anti Manchurian China now controlled by the Hans.
The British Royalty changed their German family name to avoid being linked to Germany, after Germany lost their first world war. Ndokwa and co are only reacting to your Igbophobia, they do not want to be given the Igbo treatment. You made it hard for them to accept who they are. It happens when a people lose a war.

"The war aim and (final) solution properly speaking
of the entire problem, is to discriminate against the
Igbos and in their own interest. Such discrimination
would include above all the detachment of those
oil-rich territories in the Eastern Region, in
addition, the Igbos' freedom of movement would be
restricted, to prevent their renewed penetration intoother parts, leaving any access to the sea to the Igbos is quite out of the question "

(FederalNigerian Minister speaking to E. C.
Schwarzenback, Swiss Review of Africa, February
1968).

The above is what it means to be Igbo, you can understand why Ndokwa and co are hell bent on escaping from such yorke. They are not first in history

The civil war had an effect, I agree, but I don't think it is limited to this alone. Otherwise, even during the civil war, some of these Igbo speaking tribes in the SS fought and resisted Igbos from the very first day. I heard that the Ikwerres even took part in claiming Igbo properties during the war.
If these people weren't having long time bottled-up resentment towards the southeast Igbos, I wonder why they would have decided to hijack the opportunity immediately they got it. It doesn't add up.

It's not just about the war alone.
I have met with few Ilorin & Okun Yorubas who deny Yoruba identity and claim they are not yorubas, but these people will never tell you they hate Yorubas or show hatred for Yorubas.
Same with the Itsekiris.
But in the case of some of these SS Igbos, they don't just deny being Igbo, but they also hate Igbos and if you ask them why, they will cite exactly the same reasons the average Benin, Urhobo, Idoma, Yoruba or Hausa person will cite.

The Eggon you talked about are nothing like Igbo. They are cunning, non accommodating , etc. Those are not Igbo traits. So yes! God forbid.

You obviously think you are talking to a child.

Benin was capital of multi ethnic Bendel state. Many Anioma, Urhobo, Itsekiri, whose fathers were civil servants in Bini city capital of old Bendel, stayed behind. It's akin to the high population of Anambra and Ebonyi,people in Enugu state, because it was once the capital of old Anambra state. That's how my own parents came to Enugu as well. Ilorin is a capital of multi ethnic Kwara state, with Fulani, Yoruba, Nupe, etc, all present.
Maiduguri was once the capital of an old state comprising Adamawa, Taraba, etc. Those states have many minority states.
Jos the tin city attracted many Igbo and other southern groups to the town. After the boom of Tin, many of these families stayed behind. Also old Plateau with Jos as capital included states like Nasarawa, so many groups from there are still there.

Your excuses are not adding up.
Yes Benin was capital for old Bendel and till date, you have all the tribes of Bendel there, yes. So does that also explain the huge population of Yorubas, Hausas & Igbos there? Or are were these tribes part of Bendel too?

Likewise Maiduguri & Ilorin. You have people from outside the influence of their old states there too. So the use of old states doesn't really add up.

Jos had tin mining, what about Enugu and it's coal mining?
What about the mighty Kano city? What does it have? Was it because of Jigawa people who were once under Kano? Pointless.

Look at Yoruba land (outside Lagos), you have a good representation of their ethnic minority neighbours (the Ebiras, Edos & Nupes) all around Yoruba land being settled and integrated.
Igbos on the other hand have more neighbouring minority groups than Yoruba.
Idomas, Igalas, Igedes, Ogojas, Ibibios, Ijaws, Ogonis e.t.c all share boundary with Igbo land at all directions, but you can never find them settling in Igbo land.
These minority tribes hardly even get admissions into Igbo universities. My Igala/Idoma friends have told me how their people have not been getting admission into SE universities no matter how they beat the cut off mark, to the extent that they have stopped trying now. They rather apply for schools in far away Yoruba land or the core-north, than Igbos who are nextdoor to them.
I trust you people to now come and tell us how competitive and intelligent Igbos are in education, to the extent that no other non-Igbo can meet the cut off mark in Igbo schools. Pathetic!
Yes you see same Igbos applying to study in northern and yoruba schools like no man's business.

Just like you said, below, Land is very scarce and expensive in the SE and for me, I think this is one major reason settlers are discouraged from staying in the SE

I doubt there will be any problems, so long as they pay their rent and invest in the land like Igbos do when they migrate.

Easier said than done.

I believe it's your innate Igbo prejudice messing with your head. She is probably dissapointed she couldn't use Igbo familiarity to gain cheap favours from you. Not necessarily disappointed that you are not Igbo. She simply think that chances of getting favorable financial dealings with you might be difficult, now that you are not Igbo, and will not give her any special considerations. She is looking at profit lost, you are looking at tribe.

Wrong! Didn't you hear when I said she made a condescending comment when I said I was Urhobo? If it was about profit, I would have known. She was like, ''You cannot be Urhobo'', with a condescending gesticulation, cos to her I obviously did not fit the stereotype of an Urhobo in her head.

Something like this also happened in Uniben some weeks ago where 2 Igbo women who were selling snacks said to me 'Hey handsome guy' bla bla bla bla bla ''Ibu Onye Igbo?'' And I told them no, they started trying to guess my tribe and when I told them I was from Jos they were shocked saying, Jos people don't look like you, but thank God you are not a Bini man sha. That they would have not been happy if I was a Bini man as good looking as I was

I am not trying to flatter myself here or joke about it.
I do not blame these women for mistaking me for an Igbo because even my fellow Plateau people mistake me for an Igbo. But why say ''Thank God you are not a Bini as handsome as you are?''. That is purely condescending and we were in Bini land for God's sake. You talk down and look down at other people in their own land??

Nothing like this. You lots can't make up your mind about Ndiigbo, you are constantly looking to pin dirt on us. In one minute, you claim we are not united, in another, you claim we too tribal and united . Then you claim we are too much in love with money, then when it suits your narrative like the above, you spin it again.

Can you clearly show me where I claimed that Igbos were not united?

Let me tell you. If you offer more money for rent on a shop than an Igbo in Onitsha. The Shop owner will chase away the current Igbo occupant for you to enter. And if you sell cheaper than other Igbo neighbours in that shop, or offer superior services, Igbo buyers will prefer to buy from you. We are business people who don't mix business with sentiments. This already contradicts the point you are making above.



How exactly do they not allow others come in?

By paying more for the shops than others can. By offering customers cheaper and better services than others can, thereby running others out of the market. By doing "Oso ahia ", where they go to the market entrance and practically woo buyers into their shops, while non Igbos are starved of customers because they prefer to stay in their shops than face humiliation of wooing many at times unwilling customers to their shops.

By use of "Igba Odibo", where every single trader was trained in the art of business management by a superior successful mentor, who also lease some of his customers to the "Odibo" to enable him survive early days, while non Igbos who jumped into the trade without prior training or experience soon run out of funds and fold up, the Igbos survive and dominate the market.
Rather to have a retrospection on why they failed in the business, the non Igbos go about spinning hate stories of how the Igbos used tribalism to chase them out of the market, even when the customers are not Igbos.

Cc oilpussy, Selemempe, scholes0

Well, in life, perception is all that matters.
We see you guys this way, you guys see others that way and people live in misunderstanding.

In my view, other Nigerians judge Igbos the same way because we are less capitalistic and materialistic as Igbos.

We see you guys as arrogant, cocky and domineering. You guys see it as confidence and strong mindedness.

We see you guys as too desperate and materialistic. You guys see it as being ambitious and competitive.

Just like we all accuse Hausa-fulanis of being too religious extremist, but they prefer to see it as being true adherents of their religion and holiness

All of us cannot be like each other, but at the end of the day, let us all be respectful of each other. This is what I see.

pazienza:
Nowenuse:




I doubt if there are any communities in Ondo without a mosque.
Even places like Idanre, Bolorunduro, Okitipupa, etc all have mosques.



Edo North is a Muslim enclave.
Going to places like Igarra, Okpella, Auchi, etc for first time, was like a cultural shock to me.
Too many native women on Hijab.



Modern Igbo are pragmatic. History taught us a great lesson. We see no difference between NN, SS,, WW, NC, SW, NE, etc. Whether Christians or Muslims, you lots are united by Igbophobia. Gowon was a Christian, and the Tiv and Idoma people who ambushed some of us at Makurdi in 1966, were all Christians. You all are same with the Caliphate. So to us, Nigeria is a Muslim dominant country. There is no scaremongering here. This is just us being stone cold plain and acceptance of reality.



Good for you. Do well to handle your issues with your fellow Northerners or Nigerians. Leave Ndiigbo out of it.
We are Ndiigbo not Christians. Christianity is only a secondary part of us.

God bless you for these answers . I thought I was the only Igbo that think this way....thank Chukwu that we still have young Igbo like you that have studied nigeria and understand this evil country very well. The non Hausa/Fulani are as much threat to Ndigbo as the hausa/fulani too, hence thesame fate I wish the hausa/fulani is what I wish on these so called christian/muslim SW, NC, SS.
I see myself as Igbo first, before any stupid christian. Your statement below is priceless:

Good for you. Do well to handle your issues with your fellow Northerners or Nigerians. Leave Ndiigbo out of it.
We are Ndiigbo not Christians. Christianity is only a secondary part of us.

mandarin:


Let me tell you what I know. There are several generations of Yoruba in the North in millions but many of them live directly within the Hausa communities. The recent generations together with the igbo live in secluded settlements. Because many Yoruba around Ogbomoso and kwara are enormous , a lot of them are muslims and culturally integrate. I've met Yoruba who are third generations in Katsina state. I'm not estimating for gainsaying but knowledge, there are more Yoruba in the north than igbo but in spread, may be more igbo because of trading.
Whether Wunkari or Yola Yoruba people are there.
Remember the crises that happened in Jo's and a lot of people complained that igbo were at the receiving end of losses, by the time the data was released, Yoruba people had more losses!
Thinking that igbo would be the next minority in every state is a mirage!
Yes, igbo and Yoruba are migrants but most postulated info on migration aren't correct.

The way some of you spin stories to suit your narrative is appalling. Igbos in the north are not even loud compared to those in other areas. I know that Yorubas especially from Kwara and Ogbomosho have lived in the north spanning three generations but even that doesn't equate the population of Yorubas to that of the Igbos in the north. You see, secondary school enrollment in the north will give you a better picture of both ethnic groups since they're both educationally inclined. This will rest the case. As for the unfortunate casualties in the Jos crisis being Yorubas, the reason is not far fetched. The location of the major battles witness more fatalities and in that case, the location was a Yoruba dominated location which they couldn't defend against the Hausas. I personally lost lots of Yoruba friends there. The areas were from Dilimi linking the whole Nassarawa area plus Rikkos. Nassarawa was hitherto the headquarters of the Yoruba settlement in Jos. I grew up there so I know. It had a sizeable population of Igbos too such that Igbo was being taught at a point in the Yoruba owned school I attended. After the first crisis, lots of Igbos left the area because it was poorly defended by the Yorubas who should have been the backbone of defense. It was in the subsequent crisis that the massacre happened. That's why the Yoruba casualties was the highest among the Southern settlers. Igbos from Nassarawa relocated to Igbo dominated areas and other indigene dominated areas with a good promise of defence and contributed to there defence. All Igbo dominated areas were well defended.
That said, Igbo population in the north is much more than that of the Yorubas. Is It in Kano, Kaduna, Jos, Abuja, Suleja, Lafia, Makurdi, Akwanga, Mangu, Shendam, Bauchi, Jalingo, Yola, Minna, Kafanchan etc

Yujin:

The way some of you spin stories to suit your narrative is appalling. Igbos in the north are not even loud compared to those in other areas. I know that Yorubas especially from Kwara and Ogbomosho have lived in the north spanning three generations but even that doesn't equate the population of Yorubas to that of the Igbos in the north. You see, secondary school enrollment in the north will give you a better picture of both ethnic groups since they're both educationally inclined. This will rest the case. As for the unfortunate casualties in the Jos crisis being Yorubas, the reason is not far fetched. The location of the major battles witness more fatalities and in that case, the location was a Yoruba dominated location which they couldn't defend against the Hausas. I personally lost lots of Yoruba friends there. The areas were from Dilimi linking the whole Nassarawa area plus Rikkos. Nassarawa was hitherto the headquarters of the Yoruba settlement in Jos. I grew up there so I know. It had a sizeable population of Igbos too such that Igbo was being taught at a point in the Yoruba owned school I attended. After the first crisis, lots of Igbos left the area because it was poorly defended by the Yorubas who should have been the backbone of defense. It was in the subsequent crisis that the massacre happened. That's why the Yoruba casualties was the highest among the Southern settlers. Igbos from Nassarawa relocated to Igbo dominated areas and other indigene dominated areas with a good promise of defence and contributed to there defence. All Igbo dominated areas were well defended.
That said, Igbo population in the north is much more than that of the Yorubas. Is It in Kano, Kaduna, Jos, Abuja, Suleja, Lafia, Makurdi, Akwanga, Mangu, Shendam, Bauchi, Jalingo, Yola, Minna, Kafanchan etc

oh k then you owe the world the body of proof for your argument. You see, in Nigeria, people argue how much their people are without any data to back it up. Having read the analysis on this thread, I believe all can read this including the CIA that assumptions on population composition in Nigeria has been and is still wrong based on unverified flawed and deliberately or otherwise data on which Nigeria population has erroneously been based.
If it suit anyone to ascribe any large disproportionate population to her ethnic group based on mere perception or wishful thinking, so be it. Contrary to many lies, arguments on population has been debunked severally. Igbo are traders so they travel, yes I concur but they are not the only traders in Nigeria, other groups are many in the North too as traders, artisans etc. To you, everyone not Hausa/Fulani in the North must be Igbo, big lie!
One of the key reasons Igbo are sometimes targets of hostilities is lack of integration. They do integrate in Europe and North America but because of this sense of superiority or inferiority the majority hardly do integrate within their communities in Nigeria except some in the Southwest especially second and third generations.
So my friend, you see am a student of history, strategy and analytics, I like to learn and accept that i have my limitations. If i can inform you, there are more Yoruba in the North than Igbo, in fact there are town founded by Yoruba traders before independent or amalgamation!

I don't think its right for any Igbo man to think the mind of everyone elsewhere is rigged against them haba! this was the thought of Ben Carson for his brethren when he advised African American to jettison such mentality and they will excel but alas, they labelled him! The Igbo are probably the best capitalist in Nigeria and on average more successful economically and I often laugh at the idea that Nigeria is not doing well because she hasn't produced an Igbo president! amazing! The truth is that the Nigeria economy has suffered from series of policies and just like other groups, the Igbo contributed in no small measures as well.

What Nigeria need is a generation shift to patriotic Nigerians that are young and proactive that can bring strategic policy shift and not playing victim mentality or ingrained sense of ethnic bigotry.
Thank you.

pazienza:
Nowenuse:




I doubt if there are any communities in Ondo without a mosque.
Even places like Idanre, Bolorunduro, Okitipupa, etc all have mosques.



Edo North is a Muslim enclave.
Going to places like Igarra, Okpella, Auchi, etc for first time, was like a cultural shock to me.
Too many native women on Hijab.



Modern Igbo are pragmatic. History taught us a great lesson. We see no difference between NN, SS,, WW, NC, SW, NE, etc. Whether Christians or Muslims, you lots are united by Igbophobia. Gowon was a Christian, and the Tiv and Idoma people who ambushed some of us at Makurdi in 1966, were all Christians. You all are same with the Caliphate. So to us, Nigeria is a Muslim dominant country. There is no scaremongering here. This is just us being stone cold plain and acceptance of reality.



Good for you. Do well to handle your issues with your fellow Northerners or Nigerians. Leave Ndiigbo out of it.
We are Ndiigbo not Christians. Christianity is only a secondary part of us.

igbos are 40% Muslims and 50% Christians, the rest are traditional worshippers.

I've been to ebonyi, there are many indigenous muslims there too many same with anambra.

80% of igbos in north has change to Islam because of business, fact

Astark:
igbos are 40% Muslims and 50% Christians, the rest are traditional worshippers.

I've been to ebonyi, there are many indigenous muslims there too many same with anambra.

80% of igbos in north has change to Islam because of business, fact

Lol

Whatever makes you sleep well at night.

garfield1:

How can hausas in niger not be more than 10% when muazu babangida aliyu and lolo are hausas? Though the hausas are settlers but there many in niger state.the hausanised people of bauchi are up to 1 million.the fulanis of northwest have always been minorities,not up to 20%.removing them from hausas will make no difference.i had a bad day yesterday,i don't want to lash out at you.lets drop this

Well, I hope you had a good day yesterday?

Hausas in Niger state cannot be up to 10%. If you add the fulanis, then they can be up to 10% or slightly exceed it.

Muazu Babangida is only Hausa by paternity, his mother is a Gbagyi woman. This is exactly the same situation with IBB & Abdulsalami Abubakar. These people have been with Gbagyis for generations.
Gbagyis do not have a strong centralized culture like the Nupes, otherwise, they would have culturally absorbed these Hausa-fulani immigrants, just as Nupes & Igalas absorbed Hausa immigrants.

Many Hausa men (traders) immigrated to Niger province since the precolonial era and even up till the period when Niger & Sokoto states were one state.
Most of these Hausa men continued marrying local women. You know, Hausas are very good politically unlike the Gbagyis of Niger east and the tribes of Niger north (both of whom are suppressed by Hausa-fulani controlled emirates).
Hausa fulanis use religion to gain power in Niger east & Niger north and it has been working for them so far. Like 40% of the indigenous tribes of Niger north and east are muslims. Hausa-fulanis use islam to unite themselves and these indigenous muslims, just like they do in Bauchi, hence the indigenous christians are suppressed.

From what I heard, the Gbagyi muslims of Niger east are now waking up gradually and unlike before where they would prefer to support a Hausa muslim over a Gbagyi christian politically, it is now becoming vice versa. Although, I still partly doubt this.

It's just like Bauchi where Fulanis rule the state, but they are not more than 10% in the state.

Look at Nigeria self, Have you wondered why Yar'adua, Buhari, Shagari and all the leaders from the Northwest have been fulanis? Are fulanis the majority in the Northwest? Well, this is exactly the same thing in Niger state.

If Niger state is divided into 3 (the Nupes, the Gbagyis and the Kainjis of Niger north), Hausa power of using religion will vanish.


As for the Hausanized tribes of Bauchi, they are more than 1 million. They are more than 5 million sef, if you include those of Southern Yobe.

Although, some of these tribes have not been completely hausanized as some still speak their native languages. However, the vast majority of them (especially the younger & middle aged generation) do not speak their native languages anymore nor do they practice their cultures. They are physically impossible to differentiate from Hausas.

GODMALE:
Only Benin population in Europe is more than the population of esans outside Edo state (both within and outside Nigeria).

You claim urhobo and other ethnic groups are in Benin region but totally ignored the Benin population in Delta, ondo and Lagos state.

Biase, e be like Benin woman break your heart

I was born and bred in Delta state. Where is the Benin population in Delta? Warri, Asaba or Sapele?
Like I said, in all these places, you will meet 5 Esan people before you meet 1 Benin person.

Only Lagos I can really say Benins migrate to, but that is really not worth mentioning because everybody migrates to Lagos. Even Cameroonians migrate to Lagos.

Benin people do not immigrate to another man's land like that, except going abroad.

I don't have any special grudges against the Benins. Just that I will say the truth when I see it.

GODMALE:
All these ethnic groups without real social media plaform, if you go to YouTube, Facebook , instagram. You'll see hausa-fulani,igbos and Yoruba's movies, music's,wedding pages and other social forum stuffs.

The only ethnic group to have something similar is Benin, their Instagram wedding page is top 3 after Yoruba's, Hausa and Igbo's and Ibibio comes 4th.

They have their own movie production and you can even view i on YouTube, I tried to check if ijaw, urhobo etc have something similar but I was stunned, I tought ijaw has 15 million population so they can't act movies in ijaw language?

Even in diaspora forum, after the 3 major tribes Benin comes next in hosting occasions

If you talk about diaspora, I will agree. After the 3 major tribes, Benins have the largest diaspora. It is not a questionable fact.

See, are you aware the Ijaw is more of a political group than an ethnic group?
Do you know that the Epies & Engennis of Yenagoa are an Edoid people originally? Their native language today is still an Edo dialect, but rather they identify as Ijaws today because of the politics of old Rivers state that classified everybody in the lowland as Ijaws.
Same with the Ogbia of Bayelsa, Andonni of Rivers and even Brass/Nembe.

I did my youth service in Bayelsa and these people do not understand each other's languages! Pidgin english has been their lingua franca.
Most Ibani Ijaws of Rivers state even speak Igbo as their mother tongue, yet they identify as Ijaws

Benin people have only 2 dialects today, the one spoken in Benin metropis and environs and the one spoken at Ehor (which sounds more like Esan) and is mutually intelligible with Esan.

This is why when I see Benin people like you trying to claim Igueben, claiming that they speak more like Benin, I instantly remind such people of Ehor people who are Benins but speak more like Esan.

Urhobos, Ijaws, Ibibios, Idomas, Nupes on the other hand have dozens of very different dialects. The division amongst them is so bad that you find many Okpe people who reject Urhobo identity and Efiks & Annangs who can give you a slap for addressing them as Ibibios.

Mind you, Igala, Ebira, Nupe & Ibibio have their own movie industries, this I am very sure of.

As for you Benins & Ishans. I see you people as one similar group of people, if only past Edo leaders and fathers had tried to unite both of you from the begining. You people would have been one. However, I see the problem on the side of you Benins, because of your history of being a superior group, you guys are too proud today. Too proud to share one identity with people that were inferior to you in the past.

It is this same terrible mentality that you Benins had in the past that made you a small tribe today. You people would have been one of the major tribes in Nigeria today, if you fathers had tried to integrate all their neighbouring subjects.

scholes0:


I agree.
In so many aspects Edos are the 4th most prominent ethnic group in Nigeria after the top3.
Even Edo diaspora population is third after Yoruba and Igbo.

Apart from the diaspora, can you mention one other aspect in which Binis are after the top 3 in Nigeria?
Unless of course you mean Edo as a state and not Bini as a tribe.

GODMALE:
An ethnic groups you claim have more population than Benin's but every data prove contrary.

I blame Benin's from moving outside Nigeria that's why esans and urhobo are now been compared to them.

Do you know that some communities in Italy, their communication language is Benin

Benin as one of the biggest cities in Nigeria attracted many settlers who learnt to speak Bini including the Esans. All these people patronize, watch, like and follow Benin movies and songs too.
That page you showed is Edo weddings. Many Esans & Afemais identify as Edo people too. Afterall, it is the name of their state and place of origin, or do you want to tell me that everyone who follows that Edo wedding page are Binis? I even doubt if Benin followership will be up to 60% in that page.

I don't think you need to blame Binis for leaving Nigeria. The population of Esans & Afemais outside their own homelands is far far higher than the percentage of Bini people who don't live in Benin.

Etsako people in the north alone should be close to 500k. Go to Kaduna, Kano, Zaria and tell them you are Auchi, almost everybody will know who you are, but go and tell them you are Bini and they'll be looking at you like
Are the Binis in diaspora up to 500k? Hell no! At most 300k.

pazienza:


Igbos are more. It's as simple as that.

I was in Wukari and Jalingo not long ago. It's amazing the number of Igbos there.
I kept running into random Igbo speaking people on Keke and banks.

Igbos are like Hausas in the sense that they are very visible, vibrant and commercial in urban areas, hence easily noticed.

mandarin:


Let me tell you what I know. There are several generations of Yoruba in the North in millions but many of them live directly within the Hausa communities. The recent generations together with the igbo live in secluded settlements. Because many Yoruba around Ogbomoso and kwara are enormous , a lot of them are muslims and culturally integrate. I've met Yoruba who are third generations in Katsina state. I'm not estimating for gainsaying but knowledge, there are more Yoruba in the north than igbo but in spread, may be more igbo because of trading.
Whether Wunkari or Yola Yoruba people are there.
Remember the crises that happened in Jo's and a lot of people complained that igbo were at the receiving end of losses, by the time the data was released, Yoruba people had more losses!
Thinking that igbo would be the next minority in every state is a mirage!
Yes, igbo and Yoruba are migrants but most postulated info on migration aren't correct.

Thank you very much.
Igbos always sing how much yorubas do not migrate to other parts of Nigeria and I think many people have fallen for this belief, even including me. I was once a victim of this, not until I was posted to serve in Kebbi state.

There are far more Yorubas than Igbos in Niger state and Kebbi states for a start and anyone who argues this is ignorant.

While we were travelling from Abuja to Kebbi, we stopped at Minna to repair our vehicle, wow, see yorubas speaking Yoruba well around where we were. We moved on and stopped at Kontagora (the 2nd largest town in Niger state) to eat and a plaza there had Yorubas selling there and not one Igbo in sight. As if that was not enough, when we were in camp, most of the traders, barbers, restaurant owners e.t.c were yoruba people who were living in Birnin Kebbi.
And one thing is that most of these Yorubas were fluent Hausa speakers.

To top it all, when I was in camp, I met up to 5 Yorubas who had become Hausanized in just my platoon alone. Not until these people opened up and told me that they were originally Yorubas, I never knew and could never have guessed. They looked like hausa, had purely islamic names and spoke perfect Hausa. Some of them were 3rd generation Yorubas in Kano and one even told me that he doesn't even know the road to his village in Oyo state.

Abeg, Yorubas are very very many in the north. They may not be up to the Igbos in the north, but it would be a very small margin.
Yoruba muslims tend to easily integrate among Hausa muslims and this is why they may not be very visible unlike Igbos.

Cc Pazienza, Scholes0, Yujin, garfield

Nowenuse:


Benin as one of the biggest cities in Nigeria attracted many settlers who learnt to speak Bini including the Esans. All these people patronize, watch, like and follow Benin movies and songs too.
That page you showed is Edo weddings. Many Esans & Afemais identify as Edo people too. Afterall, it is the name of their state and place of origin, or do you want to tell me that everyone who follows that Edo wedding page are Binis? I even doubt if Benin followership will be up to 60% in that page.

I don't think you need to blame Binis for leaving Nigeria. The population of Esans & Afemais outside their own homelands is far far higher than the percentage of Bini people who don't live in Benin.

Etsako people in the north alone should be close to 500k. Go to Kaduna, Kano, Zaria and tell them you are Auchi, almost everybody will know who you are, but go and tell them you are Bini and they'll be looking at you like
Are the Binis in diaspora up to 500k? Hell no! At most 300k.

okay, I agreed esan, afemai, urhobo, Ibibio and the rest minorities ahave more population than the Benin's, in fact Benin in Benin city are less than 10% of it's population.

Cheers

Nowenuse:


Well, I hope you had a good day yesterday?

Hausas in Niger state cannot be up to 10%. If you add the fulanis, then they can be up to 10% or slightly exceed it.

Muazu Babangida is only Hausa by paternity, his mother is a Gbagyi woman. This is exactly the same situation with IBB & Abdulsalami Abubakar. These people have been with Gbagyis for generations.
Gbagyis do not have a strong centralized culture like the Nupes, otherwise, they would have culturally absorbed these Hausa-fulani immigrants, just as Nupes & Igalas absorbed Hausa immigrants.

Many Hausa men (traders) immigrated to Niger province since the precolonial era and even up till the period when Niger & Sokoto states were one state.
Most of these Hausa men continued marrying local women. You know, Hausas are very good politically unlike the Gbagyis of Niger east and the tribes of Niger north (both of whom are suppressed by Hausa-fulani controlled emirates).
Hausa fulanis use religion to gain power in Niger east & Niger north and it has been working for them so far. Like 40% of the indigenous tribes of Niger north and east are muslims. Hausa-fulanis use islam to unite themselves and these indigenous muslims, just like they do in Bauchi, hence the indigenous christians are suppressed.

From what I heard, the Gbagyi muslims of Niger east are now waking up gradually and unlike before where they would prefer to support a Hausa muslim over a Gbagyi christian politically, it is now becoming vice versa. Although, I still partly doubt this.

It's just like Bauchi where Fulanis rule the state, but they are not more than 10% in the state.

Look at Nigeria self, Have you wondered why Yar'adua, Buhari, Shagari and all the leaders from the Northwest have been fulanis? Are fulanis the majority in the Northwest? Well, this is exactly the same thing in Niger state.

If Niger state is divided into 3 (the Nupes, the Gbagyis and the Kainjis of Niger north), Hausa power of using religion will vanish.


As for the Hausanized tribes of Bauchi, they are more than 1 million. They are more than 5 million sef, if you include those of Southern Yobe.

Although, some of these tribes have not been completely hausanized as some still speak their native languages. However, the vast majority of them (especially the younger & middle aged generation) do not speak their native languages anymore nor do they practice their cultures. They are physically impossible to differentiate from Hausas.

If so,pure and impure hausas in niger are about 30% or more if not more aftetlrall in before 3000,they will be completely assimilated.i dont like this your idea of always trying to balkanize or differentiate hausas.Leave it for now.

How can you say fulanis dominate bauchi when muazu,yuguda and abubakar are not fulanis? Give me the true ethnic profile of tribes of bauchi and don't balance hausas this time

Nowenuse:


Thank you very much.
Igbos always sing how much yorubas do not migrate to other parts of Nigeria and I think many people have fallen for this belief, even including me. I was once a victim of this, not until I was posted to serve in Kebbi state.

There are far more Yorubas than Igbos in Niger state and Kebbi states for a start and anyone who argues this is ignorant.

While we were travelling from Abuja to Kebbi, we stopped at Minna to repair our vehicle, wow, see yorubas speaking Yoruba well around where we were. We moved on and stopped at Kontagora (the 2nd largest town in Niger state) to eat and a plaza there had Yorubas selling there and not one Igbo in sight. As if that was not enough, when we were in camp, most of the traders, barbers, restaurant owners e.t.c were yoruba people who were living in Birnin Kebbi.
And one thing is that most of these Yorubas were fluent Hausa speakers.

To top it all, when I was in camp, I met up to 5 Yorubas who had become Hausanized in just my platoon alone. Not until these people opened up and told me that they were originally Yorubas, I never knew and could never have guessed. They looked like hausa, had purely islamic names and spoke perfect Hausa. Some of them were 3rd generation Yorubas in Kano and one even told me that he doesn't even know the road to his village in Oyo state.

Abeg, Yorubas are very very many in the north. They may not be up to the Igbos in the north, but it would be a very small margin.
Yoruba muslims tend to easily integrate among Hausa muslims and this is why they may not be very visible unlike Igbos.

Cc Pazienza, Scholes0, Yujin, garfield

Lol!
I guess it's all subjective now. When there are no real stats to back them up.
Experiences vary too.

I spent sometime in Gusau and Funtua in 2018, and I know for certain we have far more Igbos in North than Yorubas, despite Yorubas (Okun and Kwara) being Northerners.
I reckon Yorubas can't outnumber Igbos in Niger.
Places like Bida ( Ezi Bida), Minna, Suleja, all have functional and populated Igbo areas. They all feature in our travel tales. So I will take it that you are definitely underestimating Igbo population In Niger State.

I served in rural Yoruba, yet in that rural Yoruba community I served, with no electricity for that matter, there was a thriving substantial Igbo population there. I couldn't believe it. I even saw an Igbo from my hometown there.
Igbo spread and presence in the North, Nigeria and world over is by no means overrated. We are a very populous race.

One time, a girl from Samoa came to NL culture section trying to know more about Ndiigbo. His father is Igbo and the mother is from Samoa and the parents stay in Samoa. Samoa Island of all places. That's how spread Ndiigbo are. One day, When Biafra comes, we will all return home and make her great.

Nowenuse:


Apart from the diaspora, can you mention one other aspect in which Binis are after the top 3 in Nigeria?
Unless of course you mean Edo as a state and not Bini as a tribe.

The project their culture and identity more and they have the most "charisma" than the other minorities mainly because of their significant history.
Ibibio people are numerous but can't even project an independent aura separate from the "I am a calabar man" one.
Today today an Akwa Ibom man still told me I am 'from calabar'... Yes, calabar was a historic citadel and all but still, even the efiks that are supposed to have that zeal are only a tad bit better than the ibomites.

Iamgrey5:
Please keep lying to yourself

Ondo has a Christian /Christian governor and deputy governor and have always have such.

So please where are the large Muslim population in Ondo state.

Your assessment is faulty and wrong, sir. I hope you can humbly understand and admit that. The religion of the majority in the political office cannot be used to adjudge the religious affiliation of the majority in the state. One thing you need to know about South West; by and large, Yoruba, politics is that it is not religious based. Both Christian and Muslims have ruled in Oyo state, Osun and Lagos as much as I know and can remember. That Oyo state is at the moment ruled by a Christian governor doesn't mean that the majority of Oyo indigenes are Christians neither does he mean he was voted in mainly by Christians.

If being to few areas in Yoruba land made you believe Yorubas are predominantly Christians what will you believe when you visit towns and cities where you can hardly see the traces of Christianity?

The difference between Muslims and Christian may not be much. But that the population of SW is predominantly Christian at any point in time is erroneous.

Nowenuse:


Yes you are right. Kanuris could be more than Tivs.
Please, there are no Ibibios in Cross River state. It is the Efiks that are in Cross river.
If Ibibios are on their own, they would be at the level of Igalas, Idomas, Urhobos, Bini BUT if they are merged with the Efiks, Annang & Oro, they would be at the level of Tivs & Kanuris.

For me, I think Igalas, Gbagyis, Nupes, Urhobos, Idomas, Binis and even Esans & Ebiras are around 2-3 million people each.
While Ibibio-Efiks, Kanuris, Ijaws & Tivs are around 5 million people each.

Do you really believe Ijaw has more population than Urhobo?

babtoundey:


Your assessment is faulty and wrong, sir. I hope you can humbly understand and admit that. The religion of the majority in the political office cannot be used to adjudge the religious affiliation of the majority in the state. One thing you need to know about South West; by and large, Yoruba, politics is that it is not religious based. Both Christian and Muslims have ruled in Oyo state, Osun and Lagos as much as I know and can remember. That Oyo state is at the moment ruled by a Christian governor doesn't mean that the majority of Oyo indigenes are Christians neither does he mean he was voted in mainly by Christians.

If being to few areas in Yoruba land made you believe Yorubas are predominantly Christians what will you believe when you visit towns and cities where you can hardly see the traces of Christianity?

The difference between Muslims and Christian may not be much. But that the population of SW is predominantly Christian at any point in time is erroneous.

You are typing absolute nonsense sir

I am talking about a state having a Christian governor and Deputy governor for two times in a role.

I am from Oyo state and it has been ruled by both Christian and Muslims in the past.

Since 1999, Oyo state has been ruled by three Muslims (Lam Adesina, Ladoja and Ajimobi) and two Christians (Seyi and Akala).

Regardless, the position of the deputy is always made available for the other religion on each occasion.

Same can be said of Lagos, Ogun and Osun state.

The only exceptions are Ekiti and Ondo.

Nowenuse:


That is why I used the word AS OF TODAY.

Urhbobos used to migrate a lot in the past, even as far as Liberia, there was a huge Urhobo community there.
However, most of them started coming back home to Delta from the 80s as their cities started to boom with oil money. I am from Jos and Urhobos used to be the largest non indigenous minority in Jos from the South.

Igala land being an underdeveloped area without a large nearby city for a long time saw the emigration of Igalas all over the north and East. Igalas in the north & Abuja are like 700k or more.
Since Abuja came close to them, they have invaded Abuja and I'm sure they are the largest non indigenous minority in Abuja now, although Idomas can give them a hot chase for this.

Urhobos living outside Urhobo land are not more than 500k.
If you doubt this, go to the largest Urhobo & Igala facebook groups. Check like 10 Urhobo & Igala profiles in those groups, you will see that like 8 in 10 Urhobos live in Delta state, while for Igala, it would be like 3-4 in 10 who live in Kogi.

Mind you, Urhobos are not much in PH. Outside, Benin, Ajegunle & Jos. Hardly do you see Urhobos outside Delta.
Where I lived in Benin close to Uniben (Ekosodin), Igalas were the largest immigrant group there outside the student population.

Sad I came in late, but your stat about the Urhobos is wrong, Urhobo still migrate heavily, mostly westward, my grandfather grew up in Okitipkupa in Ondo state, till date we still have huge Urhobos in Ondo, Benin is like our home land, there's no way Igala will have more population than us.

Urhobos are also much in PH, Let's not even talk about Lagos and Ogun, these states till date have a large population of Urhobos. In SW no minority can displace the Urhobos, it's a well known fact.

At bolded, not true.

Nice contributions from scholes0.

Efewestern:


Sad I came in late, but your stat about the Urhobos is wrong, Urhobo still migrate heavily, mostly westward, my grandfather grew up in Okitipkupa in Ondo state, till date we still have huge Urhobos in Ondo, Benin is like our home land, there's no way Igala will have more population than us.

Urhobos are also much in PH, Let's not even talk about Lagos and Ogun, these states till date have a large population of Urhobos. In SW no minority can displace the Urhobos, it's a well known fact.

At bolded, not true.

Nice contributions from scholes0.

urhobo in Benin? Lmao

pazienza:
Nowenuse :





You think Arabs are not related to Jews? Even the Bible will tell you that Abraham/Ibraham gave birth to both Jews and Arabs. Even in Israel today, there are Arab Israelis and vice versa.
Ndiigbo have nothing in common with Hausa or Yoruba in any form. Niger delta? That's an amorphous word, because even they themselves have problems amongst themselves. The Bini vs Ijaw for Gelegele, the Urhobo vs Itsekiri for Warri. The Itsekiri vs Ijaw, etc. They have issues within themselves as well. They are a modern day babel.
Igbos fought a war with virtually the entire Nigeria. So there you have it.

The Ndokwas, Ikwerre, Ogba, etc are learners. They are only repeating history in bid to escape from Igbophobic vibes their non Igbo speaking neighbors are sending towards them. Many Manchurians after their lost power in China and became blamed by Hans for China problems, started denying their Manchurian origins to fit into anti Manchurian China now controlled by the Hans.
The British Royalty changed their German family name to avoid being linked to Germany, after Germany lost their first world war. Ndokwa and co are only reacting to your Igbophobia, they do not want to be given the Igbo treatment. You made it hard for them to accept who they are. It happens when a people lose a war.

"The war aim and (final) solution properly speaking
of the entire problem, is to discriminate against the
Igbos and in their own interest. Such discrimination
would include above all the detachment of those
oil-rich territories in the Eastern Region, in
addition, the Igbos' freedom of movement would be
restricted, to prevent their renewed penetration intoother parts, leaving any access to the sea to the Igbos is quite out of the question "

(FederalNigerian Minister speaking to E. C.
Schwarzenback, Swiss Review of Africa, February
1968).

The above is what it means to be Igbo, you can understand why Ndokwa and co are hell bent on escaping from such yorke. They are not first in history




The Eggon you talked about are nothing like Igbo. They are cunning, non accommodating , etc. Those are not Igbo traits. So yes! God forbid.




Benin was capital of multi ethnic Bendel state. Many Anioma, Urhobo, Itsekiri, whose fathers were civil servants in Bini city capital of old Bendel, stayed behind. It's akin to the high population of Anambra and Ebonyi,people in Enugu state, because it was once the capital of old Anambra state. That's how my own parents came to Enugu as well. Ilorin is a capital of multi ethnic Kwara state, with Fulani, Yoruba, Nupe, etc, all present.
Maiduguri was once the capital of an old state comprising Adamawa, Taraba, etc. Those states have many minority states.
Jos the tin city attracted many Igbo and other southern groups to the town. After the boom of Tin, many of these families stayed behind. Also old Plateau with Jos as capital included states like Nasarawa, so many groups from there are still there.


Just like you said, below, Land is very scarce and expensive in the SE and for me, I think this is one major reason settlers are discouraged from staying in the SE







I doubt there will be any problems, so long as they pay their rent and invest in the land like Igbos do when they migrate.



I believe it's your innate Igbo prejudice messing with your head. She is probably dissapointed she couldn't use Igbo familiarity to gain cheap favours from you. Not necessarily disappointed that you are not Igbo. She simply think that chances of getting favorable financial dealings with you might be difficult, now that you are not Igbo, and will not give her any special considerations. She is looking at profit lost, you are looking at tribe.



Nothing like this. You lots can't make up your mind about Ndiigbo, you are constantly looking to pin dirt on us. In one minute, you claim we are not united, in another, you claim we too tribal and united . Then you claim we are too much in love with money, then when it suits your narrative like the above, you spin it again.

Let me tell you. If you offer more money for rent on a shop than an Igbo in Onitsha. The Shop owner will chase away the current Igbo occupant for you to enter. And if you sell cheaper than other Igbo neighbours in that shop, or offer superior services, Igbo buyers will prefer to buy from you. We are business people who don't mix business with sentiments. This already contradicts the point you are making above.



How exactly do they not allow others come in?

By paying more for the shops than others can. By offering customers cheaper and better services than others can, thereby running others out of the market. By doing "Oso ahia ", where they go to the market entrance and practically woo buyers into their shops, while non Igbos are starved of customers because they prefer to stay in their shops than face humiliation of wooing many at times unwilling customers to their shops.

By use of "Igba Odibo", where every single trader was trained in the art of business management by a superior successful mentor, who also lease some of his customers to the "Odibo" to enable him survive early days, while non Igbos who jumped into the trade without prior training or experience soon run out of funds and fold up, the Igbos survive and dominate the market.
Rather to have a retrospection on why they failed in the business, the non Igbos go about spinning hate stories of how the Igbos used tribalism to chase them out of the market, even when the customers are not Igbos.

Cc oilpussy, Selemempe, scholes0

keep on talkin....
horseshitt....!!

garfield1:

If so,pure and impure hausas in niger are about 30% or more if not more aftetlrall in before 3000,they will be completely assimilated.i dont like this your idea of always trying to balkanize or differentiate hausas.Leave it for now.

How can you say fulanis dominate bauchi when muazu,yuguda and abubakar are not fulanis? Give me the true ethnic profile of tribes of bauchi and don't balance hausas this time

Bro, Fulanis dominate Bauchi politics and all the names you listed identify as Fulanis.
There are more towns dominated by Fulanis in Bauchi than Hausas.
Hausa language is just very very strong in Bauchi considering how close it is to the Northwest, hence even Bauchi fulanis are being Hausanized.

I give up on arguing Niger state with you .

Apart from Suleja town, I don't know where else in Niger state has a majority Hausa population. Even the Suleja, a good number of the muslims in there are not Hausas, they are other tribes.