Olu317:
Oh, you want me to put diacritic on the yoruba name? Smiles. Then, once it is on YouTube,it is the truth to you about the meaning of Yoruba? Lol . I rest my case.

cbrass:


No, there is this man called Laji Abass.. He is a great researcher, just watch him. He confirms most of my findings too.. Just prepare your self to hear the truth and be humble. There are some things you have heard about Yoruba history that you may find difficult to throw away. Once again the best place to get history is the people involved in the history

cbrass:

I knew you will want to go to Ifa, and I am not disappointed,

cbrass:

The best way to know about the history of any where is to go to the people who owns the history and not some Lecturer.

cbrass:

. that is entirely not true.. I used to think it was so before not until I starred to explore, even in Ile Ife they know Ogun was Oduduwas son but they just deliberately kept quiet about it. The Okanbi name is the name Oyo people gave Ogun lakaye

TAO11:
Below is an example of the incontrovertible argument on the word "OBA":



For the Yorubas, there is a difference between A ROYAL TITLE and the word "KING" itself.

(a) Throughout all the diverse Yoruba kingdoms, the word "OBA" simply and clearly means "KING". No more, no less.

(b) However, in addition to this aforementioned Yoruba word for "KING", each of the different Yoruba kingdoms also reserve an exclusive word to describe its own monarch.

(c) These exclusive words or ROYAL TITLES distinguish one Yoruba OBA from the other Yoruba OBA.

While the word "OBA" itself simply means "KING", these royal titles (such as: OONI-IFE, ALAAFIN-OYO, OLUBADAN, etc.) do not simply by themselves mean "KING"; although they are used to exclusively describe the respective kings.

(d) For example: "OONI-Ife" by itself simply means: "THE ONE WHO OWNS Ife".

"ALAAFIN Oyo" (from: "OLU-AFIN Oyo" ) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF Oyo PALACE".

"OLUBADAN" (from: "OLU-IBADAN) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF IBADAN".


(e) This practice of reserving an exclusive ROYAL TITLE (which by itself does not necessarily mean "KING" ) for a monarch is similar, for example, to the ancient Egyptians' practice.

Although the word "PHARAOH" (i.e. "PER-AA" ) exclusively describe the ancient Egyptian kings, the word itself does NOT mean "KING".

Instead, it actually means "THE GREAT HOUSE".

It is simply a royal title which runs side-by-side the actual ancient Egyptian word for "KING".

(f) Having clarified the practice of having unique royal titles to distinguish one Yoruba Oba from the other Yoruba OBA, I will now turn to the historical analysis of the word "OBA" among the Yorubas and among the Edos/Binis.

(g) To proceed, I like to put forward the following submissions, the respective truth of which will be subsequently established to show that the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) is indeed of Yoruba origin:

(1) The Yorubas have been using the word "OBA" for their kings long long before the Binis ever would.

(2) The etymology of the word "OBA" for "KING" is not found in the Edo/Bini lexicon; but clearly present in the Yoruba's.

(3) The Binis have an actual Edo/Bini word in their own language which clearly and straightforwardly means "KING".


Regarding the point (1) on the historical timeline:

It is well known that there have been two different kingly dynasties in Benin.

It wasn't until the beginning of the second dynasty that the word "OBA" first described Benin monarchs. Prior to then, they used an entirely different word.

In a testimony of Oba Ewuare 2, he admits that the first use of the word "OBA" to describe a Benin monarch was for a man from Ile-Ife called Oranmiyan.

I hope you're gradually beginning to appreciate the reality.

Moreover, prior to Oranmiyan and his ancestor Oduduwa, the Ile-Ife people have been using the word "OBA" to designate the rulers of the different settlements of their collective territory.

Historically, Ile-Ife comprises some13 primary settlements in those early times, namely: Ido, Iloromu, Ideta, Odun, Iloran, Oke-Oja, Imojubi, Iraye, Ijugbe, Oke-Awo, Iwinrin, Parakin, and Omologun.

In these pre-Oduduwa times, these settlements were independently ruled by different monarchs called "OBA".

Some of the most prominently identified of these pre-Oduduwa OBAs whose "names" have come down to posterity together with the settlements they ruled over are: Obatala and Obawinrin.

Obatala was in charge of the settlement known as Ideta prior to his exile from Ile-Ife during the civil war that broke out when Oduduwa rose to prominence.

Obatala and his loyalists re-established a version of Ideta within the thicket of some forest away from Ife. This Ideta was called Ideta-Oko to serve as contrast to the stately Ideta (also called Ideta-Nla or Ideta-Ile) in which they lived while at Ile-Ife.

"Obatala", over time, became the contraction of "Oba Ideta-Nla"; that is, "King of Ideta-Nla".

The etymology of "Obawinrin", in contrast, is quite more obvious. "Obawinrin" became the contraction of "Oba Iwinrin"; that is, "King of Iwinrin".

Among these pre-Oduduwa kingly personages who have all long been deified is Obameri. He probably ruled over a sub-settlement.

All these "names" date to the pre-Oduduwa era. In other words, long long before Oranmiyan who will later become the FIRST REFERENT of the word "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom.

I hope you see the point here.


Regarding point (2) on the etymology of "OBA":

The original, indigenous, and extant "Oba-sounding" word in the language of the Edo/Bini people comes from the Edo root-word "BA".

This root-word in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "SHINE".

From this Edo root-word "BA", the derived forms "O-BAA", "NOBA", and "N'OBA" each have the following respective meanings "IT IS SHINING"; "RED"; and "THAT WHICH SHINES".

Even a consideration of the derived form "N'OBA" still doesn't do justice to the etymology, because it simply means "THAT WHICH SHINES", or "THE ONE WHO SHINES" by extension to humans.

This meaning is by no stretch of the imagination one and the same thing as "KING".


The derived forms from the Edo root word "BA" are clearly entirely different words from the word "KING".

The similarity of these derived forms to the actual Yoruba word "OBA" (for "KING" ) begins and ends in the somewhat similar sounds. No more, no less.


Now, what about the Yoruba etymology of "OBA"? Does it mean "KING"? Let's find out.

The Yoruba word "OBA" comes from the Yoruba root-word "BA" which in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "RULE".

For example, this Yoruba root-word is found in the Yoruba statement: "Oba BA Lori Ohun Gbo-gbo."

From this Yoruba root-word "BA", the derived form "OBA", therefore means "ONE WHO RULES". No but or if.

It becomes obvious that "ONE WHO RULES" is unproblematically the equivalence of the single word "KING".

In sum, the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) as used today by the Binis is not originally found in the Edo/Bini lexicon, because the etymology "King" is not found from the available Oba-sounding Edo word.

The use of "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom began with the Ife-Yoruba man called Oranmiyan, as rightly admitted by Oba Ewuare 2 in the video I attached earlier. Earlier indigenous Benin rulers were not so referred.

Again, it becomes obvious what this implies.


Regarding point (3) about the original and extant Edo/Bini word for "KING":

The logical outstanding question in the light of the foregoing therefore is:

What then is the original Edo/Benin word for "KING" since "OBA" has been demonstrated to be originally alien to the Edo/Bini lexicon??

In simple, straightforward, and unequivocal terms, the original Edo/Bini word for "KING" which actually still survives even till date is "OGIE".


Many indigenous Bini historians always acknowledge this, but without realizing its implication.


Cheers

macof:


pawon
You just sent some Binis to school with this

nlPoster:
Ogie sounds like Okin which is also like Akin, meaning king.

Okin is peacock considered king of the birds.

macof:


pawon
You just sent some Binis to school with this

TAO11:


Killing the distortionists among the Binis.

TAO11:


I like this angle. It's eye-opening.

I think I also need your genius insight is neede for the older Edo ROYAL TITLE which came to be scrapped and replaced with "OBA" by Oranmiyan, namely:

"OGISO" (from: "OGIE-ISO" meaning "KING from the SKY" ).

In other words, how can the Edo word "ISO" possibly be interpreted as meaning "SKY" from the lenses of the Yoruba language??

Thanks much!

TAO11:
I thought I should share this interesting piece of historical information on the first time an Ooni of Ife will set foot 'outside' of his palace:

It was in the year 1903 when the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Adelekan Olubuse 1, was invited to Lagos by the then Governor General of the Southern Protectorate, Sir William MacGregor.

The Ooni was invited as a last resort measure to settle an important and fast escalating supremacy feud between certain Yoruba OBAs (I believe the Elepe and the Akarigbo --- I'm not 100% certain at the moment who and whi it was) in the Lagos region.

The issue had evaded several resolution attempts by the Britush Government representative until the British Government thought it was time that the Ooni himself stepped in.

Now, it must have been a really serious issue to warrant the Ooni to vacate his throne. No Ooni had done that before --- It was a pseudo-sacrilege.

Many sacrifices were offered en-route Lagos and in the whole process of his vacating his esteemed and imperial throne. The British Government bore all the cost of the sacrifices.

The Ooni quenched the duel as if it never happened, and as if no one ever attempted to solve the issue.

The most interesting aspect of all this, for me, is as follows:

As soon as the news reached all the kings in southern Nigeria (from Warri down to the Yoruba interior --- including the Oba of Benin and the Alaafin of Oyo) that the Ooni vacated his palace; they independently left their thrones and lived outside of their palace until the news reached them that the Ooni was back in Ife.

As if they informed each other, they considered it sacrilegious to continue living in their respective palaces while the had Ooni vacated his (although temporarily and for good cause).


All these information is well documented in more details in the Government Gazette for the Colony of Lagos published on Saturday, February 28, 1903.

Also attached below is a video interview of the 'yesterday' Ooni of Ife, Oba Olubuse II which speaks to the same issues:

Olu317:
‘Okin' is feminine in Yoruba's lexicon.The name represents peacock identity and birds with hairy tails,which makes them beautiful birds.

TAO11:


True!

Also, I think nlPoster 's interpretation of the Edo "ISO" (meaning "SKY" ) through the Yoruba lens of "AWOSONMO" doesn't quite capture the sense of the word.

And my reason for this is quite simple and straightforward ---- the Yoruba word "AWOSONMO" (or simply "SONMO" ) is a relatively recent loanword from the Arabic "SAMA' " i.e. "سماء" (meaning "SKY" ).

I am inclined to thinking of the Edo word "ISO" along the lines of the Yoruba word "ÌSO" (with the actual diacritics still being "do-re" ).

And the Yoruba word "ÌSO" conveys the following sense:

"Tie", "Hang", as well as "Suspend" (as in suspend up in the air by been hung or tied).

This last significance brings the Edo "ISO" close to the Yoruba "ÌSO".

Having said that, I have updated the video of the interview by the 'yesterday' Ooni on the events around the first visit of an Ooni outside Ife.

Olu317:
‘Okin' is feminine in Yoruba's lexicon.The name represents peacock identity and birds with hairy tails,which makes them beautiful birds.

And my reason for this is quite simple and straightforward ---- the Yoruba word "AWOSONMO" (or simply "SONMO" ) is a relatively recent loanword

nlPoster:


Awosonmo is ancient Yoruba, ofurufu is recent Yoruba.

And no , it does not appear to be a loan word since it is descriptive (skin or cover of the expanse).

It's like saying oorun (sun) is from Horus. Or osan (afternoon) was derived from the English word sun.

Awo in Yoruba typically applies to ancient secrets eg wizard, skin, cover, conceal, etc in certain contexts.

A word like alubosa could be considered a loan word since you cannot break it it into constituent parts, it would have no meaning.

nlPoster:
The constant references to "Muslim Yorubas" are a nairaland peculiarity, if you follow the same path that means your knowledge of Yoruba dialectics is mainly based on what you read on nairaland.


My opinion.


Yorubas do not divide themselves the way it's done on nairaland.

It is often found that the usage of "SONMO" for "SKY" is particularly among the Muslim Yorubas.

Whereas other Yorubas who aren't Muslim tend to lean towards referring to "SKY" as "OFURUFU"

nlPoster:

Awo sonmo is a traditional Yoruba term, perhaps that's what you mean.

Yorubas use ofurufu interchangeably with awo sonmo but awo sonmo is more in depth because ofurufu sounds like nothingness or wind (afefe).

No, I mean that "SONMO" (which is the actual BASE WORD here) is a relatively recent word because is is a LOANWORD from "SAMA' ".

And "OFURUFU" actually and specifically means "SKY".

TAO11:



Does the fact that some bigots use the innocent phrase "Yoruba Muslim" (or "Muslim Yoruba" ) for their bigotry alter the fact some Yorubas are Muslims (and others Christian) for a long period of their history??

I'm not sure what you're on about with your response. I am also not sure how my foregoing comment was supposed to be toeing the lines of political and tribal bigots who use the phrase "Yoruba Muslim" (or "Muslim Yoruba" ) for twisted and weird politicking.


My argument is simply that ---- just as with all languages in the world ---- some words ("SONMO" in this case) became accepted as a loanword into the Yoruba lexicon, from other languages ("Arabic" in this case) through the influence of Yorubas who embraced and identify with the Islamic faith whose linguafranca is Arabic..

How is this supposed to be close to anything divisive by any stretch of the imagination

nlPoster:



It's a Yoruba word, not a loan word. Similarities with Arabic means they have the same root, possibly Yorubas (either assimilated or original) brought it along after they left the middle east.

Sonmo is from osan meaning afternoon. Osan mo means day has dawned.

It's like saying Oju ti mo meaning it's morning ie the sky has cleared.

Sonmo also shares similarities with English sun, why do you exclude that?

Ofurufu is more recent than awo sonmo. When you break it down, it has little meaning hence the association with afefe which means wind or aimless. When you check efulefu in Igbo language, it also shares this resemblance because it means shiftless person.

Awo sonmo implies there is something beyond the visible sky ie something covering something else, hence it's more intense meaning. Ofurufu just means expanse.

nlPoster:


The term "Yoruba muslim" is a nairaland buzzword used by nlers who are recent acquaintances with SW Nigeria. Possibly also an effect of globalization and modern information technology (read power struggle).

By recent acquaintance I mean either fairly recent arrivals or living in the SW but not integrated with the people there.

I've explained why there is a similarity between sonmo and sama in my previous post. I don't consider it a loan word but a common root word. Also, google translate is not to be used as an only research tool.

Similarly, if your assiciation of the Yoruba word "Ofurufu" to the Yoruba word "Afefe" is anything to go by, then it will be making my point rather than yours because it will be showing that this word is cognate with another Yoruba word, and hence always part of the Yoruba language.

tpiar:
Your posts are too lengthy for me to want to analyze in detail, so I just pick points here and there to respond to.

Afefe is recent because an older Yoruba word for wind is ategun.

One easy way to guess which words are recent and which are not likely to be loaned are break it down into it's constituent parts and see if it still has a meaning.

Afefe (fluff) is difficult to explain in Yoruba because it's a whole word and has vowels inserted between the consonants, meaning it could be a loan word from another language.

Ategun on the other hand, is descriptive (remember this is important because most subsaharan Africans do not have a written language therefore they store their history via oral words, among other things. You can analyze ategun (wind) by breaking it into smaller units and it still makes sense. Ate could be to step or we step (on), referring to the far reaches of the wind which goes everywhere. Long refers to the same.