Shelumiel:
By bible told me! . So read it and weep! " For by Him (Jesus) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him"(Colossians 1:16). Sweet Jesus is your God and my God.

Why did you hide verse 15?

He is the image of God (just as humans were also created in the image of God) he is the " FIRST BORN of all creations!

Please is there anything born that doesn't have a father? John 20:17

Just go and look for Jehovah's Witnesses, they will teach you the rest, i was a Muslim before i accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and savior, as our Master Lord and King he has helped us to develop all the nine qualities of God's holy spirit in our organization!
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Goodness, Kindness, Faith, Mildness and Self-control. Galatians 5:22-23

Go and search throughout the earth if you will find any other group like us, he is the Prince of Peace and his promise is that all people of the world will recognize us by one word, though they may hate us and accuse us.

Everywhere you go you'll hear from people say "Jehovah's Witnesses have LOVE amongst themselves" John 13:34-35; 17:20-23

So if you want to argue don't worry, your market will come!

Maximus69:


Jesus WAS God just as Moses WAS God.

Both served the purpose of the one and only Almighty God who conferred the title on them for a time.

Moses became God when God wanted to humiliate Pharaoh and all the God's of Egypt, note that Pharaoh who scornfully asked "who is Jehovah that i should obey his voice" {Exodus 5:2} later began begging Moses as if the guy is God, while all the Gods of Egypt has been rendered helpless! Exodus 10:17

Jesus became God IN THE BEGINNING meaning when God wanted to start creating all other things! John 1:1

He WAS with God!

I can't find any of what you said in Genesis..why?..what can you say about Isaiah 45:4-9

Maximus69:


Why did you hide verse 15?

He is the image of God (just as humans were also created in the image of God) he is the " FIRST BORN of all creations!

Please is there anything born that doesn't have a father? John 20:17

Just go and look for Jehovah's Witnesses, they will teach you the rest, i was a Muslim before i accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and savior, as our Master Lord and King he has helped us to develop all the nine qualities of God's holy spirit in our organization!
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Goodness, Kindness, Faith, Mildness and Self-control. Galatians 5:22-23

Go and search throughout the earth if you will find any other group like us, he is the Prince of Peace and his promise is that all people of the world will recognize us by one word, though they may hate us and accuse us.

Everywhere you go you'll hear from people say "Jehovah's Witnesses have LOVE amongst themselves" John 13:34-35; 17:20-23

So if you want to argue don't worry, your market will come!

Jehovah witness? My brother, leave that cult before you become a victim of Charles Russell Tuze. What they preach is perversion which is why you can never see the Holy Spirit in their midst. Shalom

sonmvayina:


I can't find any of what you said in Genesis..why?..what can you say about Isaiah 45:4-9

Yorùbá say!
Igbo say!
Hausa say!
Babylonians say!

Please go and continue studying your books, i believe solely in God's word the Bible.

So if you don't, you and i have no business!

Shelumiel:
Jehovah witness? My brother, leave that cult before you become a victim of Charles Russell Tuze. What they preach is perversion which is why you can never see the Holy Spirit in their midst. Shalom

And what is the FRUIT of God's holy spirit that you're seeing in your own midst?

Note that GIFTS differs from FRUITS !

So tell me the FRUIT of God's holy spirit in your religion, and i will tell you the FRUIT of God's holy spirit that's obvious to everyone as it's permeating in the midst of Jehovah's Witnesses!

Shelumiel:
Jehovah witness? My brother, leave that cult before you become a victim of Charles Russell Tuze. What they preach is perversion which is why you can never see the Holy Spirit in their midst. Shalom

Of course you'll call me your brother, as you can see how efficient a Christian is boldly quoting God's word with efficacy to back his beliefs!

Even your Pastors can't do this because they don't have God's spirit in them, i asked you to prove yourself as a Christian by quoting God's word to back your beliefs, but can you now see that you're empty?

Well i was a Muslim who can't even quote a single phrase in God's word, until i met Jehovah's Witnesses (TRUE Christians)

So let me tell you that you're not my brother or sister in anyway, unless you're one of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 12:46-49

Maximus69:


Yorùbá say!
Igbo say!
Hausa say!
Babylonians say!

Please go and continue studying your books, i believe solely in God's word the Bible.

So if you don't, you and i have no business!

Genesis is the first book of the Bible..in case you don't know..my question is which day did God create Jesus?...and why are you quoting Colossians for an event that happened in Genesis...if it did happen shouldn't it be reported in Genesis or at least Exodus..

And why would God say "there is no one beside him"..in Isaiah 45.

Maximus69:


Of course you'll call me your brother, as you can see how efficient a Christian is boldly quoting God's word with efficacy to back his beliefs!

Even your Pastors can't do this because they don't have God's spirit in them, i asked you to prove yourself as a Christian by quoting God's word to back your beliefs, but can you now see that you're empty?

Well i was a Muslim who can't even quote a single phrase in God's word, until i met Jehovah's Witnesses (TRUE Christians)

So let me tell you that you're not my brother or sister in anyway, unless you're one of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 12:46-49

Oga, don't get it twisted o. I'm not calling you my brother because I'm a Christian (because JWs don't believe in being called Christians so you're suppose to hold on that dogmatic belief of theirs so that exempt you from being called brother . ). Secondly, you're not a Muslim. For even Muslims indirectly know(although they'll never admit) that Jesus is God. And as for dissecting the word of God, puhahahha... You've failed woeful

Shelumiel:
Oga, don't get it twisted o. I'm not calling you my brother because I'm a Christian (because JWs don't believe in being called Christians so you're suppose to hold on that dogmatic belief of theirs so that exempt you from being called brother . ). Secondly, you're not a Muslim. For even Muslims indirectly know(although they'll never admit) that Jesus is God. And as for dissecting the word of God, puhahahha... You've failed woeful

All followers of this thread will surely agree with you!

sonmvayina:


Genesis is the first book of the Bible..in case you don't know..my question is which day did God create Jesus?...and why are you quoting Colossians for an event that happened in Genesis...if it did happen shouldn't it be reported in Genesis or at least Exodus..

And why would God say "there is no one beside him"..in Isaiah 45.

I no kno sey na u, i dey sorry gan!

So abeg waka pass!

Maximus69:


I no kno sey na u, i dey sorry gan!

So abeg waka pass!

And you want me to be a Christian because......?

sonmvayina:


And you want me to be a Christian because......?

Even God doesn't want you any close to him!

Because his son said himself and his followers should search for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and obviously you don't belong to that category.

So go and worship any type of God you know!

The gospel stories comes from ancient tales about Marduk..and Marduk is the Lord of the old testament...
Marduk is the son of Enki.,the God of wisdom...
It was at the council of nicea that Arthanasius said he was both God and man ,and a human history was forged .. probably by eusebius.


http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

sonmvayina:
The gospel stories comes from ancient tales about Marduk..and Marduk is the Lord of the old testament...
Marduk is the son of Enki.,the God of wisdom...
It was at the council of nicea that Arthanasius said he was both God and man ,and a human history was forged .. probably by eusebius.


http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

That's why i said "go and worship your own God the best way you know"

Maximus69:


That's why i said "go and worship your own God the best way you know"

I am educating those who want to wake up..you can continue to wallow in your ignorance..I don't really care..
God is the universal conciouseness..

Well, it is very important for us to examine the fact through the direction of holy Spirit and avoid all this argument.

Nevertheless, John 1:14 make it clear to us that "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us".
From verse 1, it was clear that "the word was with God and the word was God". This shows two entity that became one. Now how did you want to separate it? The understanding can only be review to individual by Holy Spirit of God.
The reason why Jesus is God, is because every of achievement is to the glory of God. (This is a mystery that man without holy Spirit can not interpret).
So, if you call him son of God, he is son
If you call him God, he is God

thankgod460:
Well, it is very important for us to examine the fact through the direction of holy Spirit and avoid all this argument.

Nevertheless, John 1:14 make it clear to us that "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us".
From verse 1, it was clear that "the word was with God and the word was God". This shows two entity that became one. Now how did you want to separate it? The understanding can only be review to individual by Holy Spirit of God.
The reason why Jesus is God, is because every of achievement is to the glory of God. (This is a mystery that man without holy Spirit can not interpret).
So, if you call him son of God, he is son
If you call him God, he is God

English is not the original language of the Bible.. English Bible was translated from Greek.
So, why is your English John 1:1 saying another thing different from Greek John 1:1 ?
God is a spirit.. John 4:24, Father and son is how many spirit?

John 1:18
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known"

Your opinion contradicts John 1:18,why ?

John 1:18,No man has ever seen God", is true or false?

Shelumiel:
Oga, don't get it twisted o. I'm not calling you my brother because I'm a Christian (because JWs don't believe in being called Christians so you're suppose to hold on that dogmatic belief of theirs so that exempt you from being called brother . ). Secondly, you're not a Muslim. For even Muslims indirectly know(although they'll never admit) that Jesus is God. And as for dissecting the word of God, puhahahha... You've failed woeful

You Sabi LIE like kilode .
JWs believe the words of Jesus (John 17:3. 3:16-17) which you have been claimed is trash.
Every Muslim knows that your statement about them is false.
Triune pagan deity devotee well done

Janosky:

The English version of John 1:1 is radically different from the Greek John 1:1, that is why people are being deceived..
Greek John 1:1 says:
In beginning was the word and the word was facing towards the God (tov Theon) and the word was (Theos) a God/god"
Greek Theos means "a God/god. Or divine nature.
John 1:1 teaches us Jesus is not the God Almighty tov Theon, but Jesus has divine nature ,or qualities like God Almighty.

John 14:1 Jesus says believe in (tov Theon) the God ,also believe in me".

You can see in John 14:1, Jesus shows he is NOT Almighty God,Yahweh.
Only triune pagan deity devotees love the scam called Trinity.
The Jews spoke that lie as excuse to kill Jesus, John 10:33,36. John 19:6-7) you are still perpetuating the same lie.
If you don't believe Jesus words in the physical realm and the spiritual realm,( John 20:17,30-31. John 17:3. John 3:16-17. Rev 3:5,11,12,21), Na your problem be that...
Shalom.

@Janosky

This isn't consistent with that same Chapter or with the bible explanation itself. I have had this discussion here with your colleague before.

You can check my explanation on this earlier to understand my position. This has been discussed on NL extensively before.

https://www.nairaland.com/5357685/jesus-not-god-reno-omokri#81224838

Also this: https://www.nairaland.com/5357685/jesus-not-god-reno-omokri#81245174

You may need to also follow the line of thoughts in that thread to understand my discussion with one of your companion which i assumed you are partially part of.

OtemAtum:

The problem is that they worship a fictitious character as their god and the stories written for them about this character is not sufficient and also reeks of contradictions. So they all develop different opinions about this character. Had it been the character is real and alive, he would have located them all in their dreams and reveal what he is to them so that they can have one mouth. Their confusions is till eternity.

Like seriously?
Are you saying that Jesus is not alive

Ladyvin:


Like seriously?
Are you saying that Jesus is not alive

Alive only in the enslaved minds of human beings. Non-existent in reality.

Maximus69:


Abeg help me ask these Churchgoer mumungus!

God created the guy first {Colossians 1:15-16} God later employed him as a mastercraftman {Proverbs 8:22,30} so everything God did was just to instruct this guy to do this or do that, whenever you see "let this be like this or that" it's God speaking to his employee and after inspection God confirmed that the worker did a good job! Genesis 1:1-30

And when God transformed this guy into a pregnancy in the womb of a virgin girl, the guy grew up in the midst of Adam's children. That's why there was nothing so difficult for the guy to amend whether blindness o, lame o, leprosy o, deaf o, dead person o even sea had to obey his voice because he was the mastercraftman God used in creating everything, so to repair it is not a problem for him!

That's why John could say this guy WAS God in the beginning, but presently he is serving as a Prince at God's right hand {Act 7:56 compare to Psalms 110:1} preparing to overthrow all the worldly rulers {Daniel 2:44} and reign for a thousand years {Revelation 20:1-6} until he hand over everything back to his God and Father! 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Your story-line is not consistent with scriptures Sir.

Firstly the Colossians 1:15-16 you quoted used firstborn "prototokos" as related to his redemptive work. You have to read in context not take one verse out of it and interpret. It wasnt referring to creating him.

Prototokos was used 9 times by KJV translation and referred to Jesus 8 times in the usage. 2 times referring to his earthly birth, 6 times referring to his finished work, born from the dead. The firstborn from the dead. That is the first to come from the dead, referring to place of death due to sin of man.
He called him first because there will be many (believers) who will afterwards come out from the dead, raised.

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5-6
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The context is clear Sir. Compare to other usage of prototokos (firstborn) for Jesus or similar usage such as only begotten (monogenes). They dont have to literally mean act of giving birth or creating something. Usually meaning is to show where that thing comes from. Firstborn, first to come from.... that, Only begotten, only one to come from.... Jesus is the only one who came from God, hence only begotten of the father, not as in male/female coming together birth. This one came from God. Jesus was never a created being. He is God in man.

hupernikao:


@Janosky

This isn't consistent with that same Chapter or with the bible explanation itself. I have had this discussion here with your colleague before.

You can check my explanation on this earlier to understand my position. This has been discussed on NL extensively before.

https://www.nairaland.com/5357685/jesus-not-god-reno-omokri#81224838

Also this: https://www.nairaland.com/5357685/jesus-not-god-reno-omokri#81245174

You may need to also follow the line of thoughts in that thread to understand my discussion with one of your companion which i assumed you are partially part of.

Oga hupernikao,
TOV Theon is NEVER applied to Jesus Christ anywhere in the Greek new testament.. not even in John 1:1.
Jesus Christ applied tov Theon exclusively to the only true God Almighty,Yahweh,his Father.
John 14:1.John 17:3.John 20:17= Rev3:5,12,21.


Trinitarians twist of John 10:30, Jesus debunks it @ John 17:22 = 1Cor 3:6,8.

You can believe what you want, it's your choice.
Shalom.

Janosky:

English is not the original language of the Bible.. English Bible was translated from Greek.
So, why is your English John 1:1 saying another thing different from Greek John 1:1 ?
God is a spirit.. John 4:24, Father and son is how many spirit?

John 1:18
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known"

Your opinion contradicts John 1:18,why ?

John 1:18,No man has ever seen God", is true or false?

Please are you from Greek?
Even the English we speak at times give different interpretations or meaning depending on the context. Because you read words in Latin or Greek doesn't mean you have the best interpretations. I have people that are from Lebanon that explains bible in divers way because they made it clear to me that Arabic words have divers of meaning. Similarly if you ask people from Greek they also will give you divers meaning.
Thanks

sonmvayina:


I am educating those who want to wake up..you can continue to wallow in your ignorance..I don't really care..
God is the universal conciouseness..

Thank you!

hupernikao:


Your story-line is not consistent with scriptures Sir.

Firstly the Colossians 1:15-16 you quoted used firstborn "prototokos" as related to his redemptive work. You have to read in context not take one verse out of it and interpret. It wasnt referring to creating him.

Prototokos was used 9 times by KJV translation and referred to Jesus 8 times in the usage. 2 times referring to his earthly birth, 6 times referring to his finished work, born from the dead. The firstborn from the dead. That is the first to come from the dead, referring to place of death due to sin of man.
He called him first because there will be many (believers) who will afterwards come out from the dead, raised.

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5-6
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The context is clear Sir. Compare to other usage of prototokos (firstborn) for Jesus or similar usage such as only begotten (monogenes). They dont have to literally mean act of giving birth or creating something. Usually meaning is to show where that thing comes from. Firstborn, first to come from.... that, Only begotten, only one to come from.... Jesus is the only one who came from God, hence only begotten of the father, not as in male/female coming together birth. This one came from God. Jesus was never a created being. He is God in man.

Jesus is the first born my friend, FIRST BORN!

Adam never had a mother as well as God's son! Luke 3:38

So any first born surely has a beginning!

But God Almighty has no beginning!

Janosky:

Oga hupernikao,
TOV Theon is NEVER applied to Jesus Christ anywhere in the Greek new testament.. not even in John 1:1.
Jesus Christ applied tov Theon exclusively to the only true God Almighty,Yahweh,his Father.
John 14:1.John 17:3.John 20:17= Rev3:5,12,21.


Trinitarians twist of John 10:30, Jesus debunks it @ John 17:22 = 1Cor 3:6,8.

You can believe what you want, it's your choice.
Shalom.

You didnt read Bro, i directed you to a detailed discussion but you didnt bother to check. That is already a set mind and not good for discussion.

Also, note that your Greek lexicon and understanding is not good at all. And i have explained that in that link i gave you as to be re-writing all that again is labor.

But let me point this out to you that it is obvious you have a wrong knowledge of Greek word but you are fast to use it. Using tov theon as argument to say only God was it used for is very weak point and absolutely error. Infact same word was used for a goddess in the bible.

Acts 19:37
For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of [i]your goddess.[/i]
your goddess τὴν θεὸν same word tov theon.

It is a weak explanation for you to use that. How you guys explain tov theon and ho theos as different still amuse me. It is an embarrassment to Greek lexicon.

It is like saying HE and HIM is different in English. And that because you use HE then it cant be HIM.

Tov is the same as ho used severally for Jesus, God and any other thing depending on context.
Go and check your Greek text.

They are same family as ὁ, ἡ, τό, the one you use will be dependent on grammar. You cant use Theon and expect a ὁ, ἡ or τό, its like using she for a boy in English. That is the simplest way i can put it.

Tov is used as Accusative Singular Masculine
ho is used as Nominative Singular Masculine

When you have Theo(n) that is showing accusative noun and it will carry tov, it is not because he is talking about God almighty, it is a grammar thing.

Examples (In English):

He read a book.

“He” is the subject in the nominative case.
“read” is the action the subject is completing
the direct object in the accusative case is “a book”. It is the object in the accusative case

All nouns in Greek have accusative, nominative, dative, neutral etc. and unlike English where you can show that with HE and HIM, in Greek end of the spelling is what shows that. So Theo(n) and Theo(s) is the same, difference is one is in accusative (Theon) so the last n, the other is in nominative (Theos) so the last s.

Hence,

The word was with God.
God here is in accusative hence you have theon, and accusative noun must carry tov, not because it is God almighty.

Please do a study on Greek. This is not a prove or disprove of trinity, this is making sure we dont add error to translation. ho theos was used for God severally when in nominative. Please check your bible well.

See below picture.

Maximus69:


FIRST BORN!

Yes FIRSTBORN. kindly check all its usage in NT.

Maximus69:


Jesus is the first born my friend, FIRST BORN!

Scripture and verse Sir? if you mean that relates to creating Jesus.

Janosky:


You Sabi LIE like kilode .
JWs believe the words of Jesus (John 17:3. 3:16-17) which you have been claimed is trash.
Every Muslim knows that your statement about them is false.
Triune pagan deity devotee well done

Oga pack wella...and while you're packing get out of that secret cult of Charles Russell Tuze. Monkey liar

thankgod460:

Please are you from Greek?
Even the English we speak at times give different interpretations or meaning depending on the context. Because you read words in Latin or Greek doesn't mean you have the best interpretations. I have people that are from Lebanon that explains bible in divers way because they made it clear to me that Arabic words have divers of meaning. Similarly if you ask people from Greek they also will give you divers meaning.
Thanks

John 1:18 "no man has ever seen God at any time", do you understand that?
Why does your opinion contradict John 1:18?
God is a spirit or two spirits ?

Shelumiel:
Oga pack wella...and while you're packing get out of that secret cult of Charles Russell Tuze. Monkey liar

Still no proof for your spurious claims....
Go & read all your posts, you have never brought any tangible evidence here..
Shame no dey catch you to dey LIE LIE...
Make we see the results of your research on these topics:
Desiderus Erasmus,
Johanine comma
and textus receptus....
If you get "liver" , bring the results of the research you did.....