@zikky
The apostles worshipped and prayed at the temple. The temple was still functional. The early christians still went there. You'll see peter and john there. You'll find Paul there. It wasn't a take over. It's later that christians were chased from the temples and synagogues. In 70A.D, the temple was destroyed. We're now in the gentile age fully. We are a holy nation, howbeit grafted in. God has qualified us priests and kings. If you have your offerings, sacrifices and tithes, you are free to bring them to your local church. That's grace, not the letter of the law. Christ accepts what we bring, as we bring it as unto God, not men.

The levites were given the tithe and offerings so that they may serve God without distraction. Not because there was no chance the labour market. The same principle is applicable today. Some church workers are on full time. They also have needs, families, educations, relatives etc to cater for. Not every christian can be a paul in every way. Paul wasn't married btw. We follow Jesus expressly, not man. Jesus can easily be seen by the Word, the scriptures. The scriptures is our guiding light, a lamp to our path, written for our learning. We can learn from all scripture, not just paul. Today, we may not be laying money at apostles' feet, or selling properties, or writing epistles, or frequenting prison and crucifixions. As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Today we have usher, choir, keyboard, glass pulpit, dvds and devotionals. The wind blows where it listeth. We're guided by the principles of the Word, not the letter.

This is english. Income, profit, proceeds, wages, harvest, produce,yield, returns. They're all the same thing. - per Image123
@Image123

You have just shown us your ignorance of the word income.

Since I am a retired accountant and tax auditor, my whole career depended on me knowing the difference between assets and income.

I happen to be born and raised, and still live in what is known as the agricultural capital of the world.  The main economy here is agriculture.

Try and tell a farmer that his harvest is his income.  I am sure no farmer here would want you to file his income tax return.

A farmer makes his income by SELLING and/or BARTER EXCHANGE of his harvest and/or animals.  The harvest isn't his income, the proceeds from the sale is.  But God commanded the farmer to tithe on the ASSETS, before there was any income.

I can see many of you here need an accounting class.  Now, some will say I don't need an accounting class in order to understand the Bible.  I would agree, EXCEPT your pastor has ADDED ACCOUNTING TERMS TO THE WORD.  It was church leaders who added the accounting term "income" to God's Word.  It was church leaders that introduced the term "gross income" to the church.  I have yet to find even ONE pastor who has been able to give me the correct definition of gross income.

Pastors/preachers have NO BUSINESS using accounting terms unless they have at least some accounting background to understand the terms they use.  They merely show their ignorance.

That is why, as a Money & Finance Minister, before I ever begin to teach about tithing and giving, I give a short class on income and assets.  Without an understanding of those two terms, it is impossible to understand how God's tithed worked.

Did the Israelite farmers have a knowledge of assets and income?  Probably not.  Didn't matter.  They were told to tithe on their crops and animals, NOT on their income, which they DID have.

Since the Israelite farmers tithed on their PRODUCT.  To compare that to today, I would have to tithe on my SERVICES, since that was my product.  NOT MY INCOME.

Once a person really understands the difference between assets and income, the light turns on and they understand exactly what the tithe was all about.

Image123:

@zikky
The apostles worshipped and prayed at the temple. The temple was still functional. The early christians still went there. You'll see peter and john there. You'll find Paul there. It wasn't a take over. It's later that christians were chased from the temples and synagogues. In 70A.D, the temple was destroyed. We're now in the gentile age fully. We are a holy nation, howbeit grafted in. God has qualified us priests and kings. If you have your offerings, sacrifices and tithes, you are free to bring them to your local church. That's grace, not the letter of the law. Christ accepts what we bring, as we bring it as unto God, not men.

I will only accept this if you agree to stop making reference to Malachi 3:10, seeing the Levitical tithe as basis for your action (because they are not related) and using the words 'God command'. Thats the only way we can settle our quarrel  After you have done that we can go hang out in an e-joint, take some e-pepper soup and wash it down with some e-'whatever your heart desire'

You see by teaching giving based on a set threshold (10%), you introduce giving guided by set rules and not one motivated by genuine desire to give. You take sincerity out of giving, it does not reflect a man that is led by the spirit of God in him (and don’t tell me some give more). True giving must be from the heart, and that is what you will find in the New Testament.  We are no longer subject to such rules, let the heart determine what it should give as appreciation to the Almighty. If its 10%, fine, if 5% okay if 90%, it’s all good.

@garyarnold
Tell that to the lagos business school, or to Adam Smith. We're speaking common english, not chartered accounting. I believe the career and education section is still on NL. Go display your theories there. So you want to slam copyright on english words. You need a dictionary asap. What comes in at the end of the year, the month, the week, the day, that's income.(and the common people heard him gladly). Whether you decide to call it harvest, profit, sales, salary, blessing, my name. It's what you reap. That's basic english, not all this theories revised and reversed till the millionth edition.
To tow your line of reason, is your income not equal in value to your asset? Is your income not a product/produce of your asset?

@zikky
Let not the sun go down on our quarrel na.

Image123:

@zikky
Let not the sun go down on our quarrel na.

Its unavoidable. I go review your case tomorrow. Right now i am shutting down for the day.

@Image123,

To tow your line of reason, is your income not equal in value to your asset? Is your income not a product/produce of your asset?

Of course your income is not equal in value to your assets.

Are you saying all your assets equal your income?  House, clothes, car, tvs, stereo, furniture, etc. etc.  What do assets have to do with your income?

The farmers assets include his house, barn, other farm buildings, land, crops, animals, farm equipment, etc.  Doesn't even relate to income at all.

Many farmers have a LOSS year after year.  That's not income, but they still may have a harvest.  And gross income is not the same as gross receipts. 

You are proving the point that many accounting terms are NOT widely correctly understood by the layman.

@ snowwy, i understand some churches do give for the pastor's welfare, they pay them monthly, okay since the tithes were meant for the levites to let them perform their duties without distraction whatsoever, what is tithe used for? I concentrat on the main substance of xtianity which is salvation

@garyarnold
You were the one who said that crops and animals are ASSETS, not income. You said that God commanded the Israelites to tithe from their assets. It's that line of reasoning that i towed, and that was by the way. If according to you, the crop(asset) has to be exchanged for money(income), is it not logic that the value of 'asset' exchanged is equal to the income?

@Image123,

If according to you, the crop(asset) has to be exchanged for money(income), is it not logic that the value of 'asset' exchanged is equal to the income?

That is referring to the FESTIVAL TITHE where if you have too far to take the crops you can exchange the TITHE for money, take 100% of that money, go to the place of the feast, and use 100% of that money to BUY back an equivalent TITHE. The tithe is not the money, and the money was not tithed on.

Of course the value of the TITHE is equal to THAT PORTION of the farmers assets. But the tithe was NOT on the INCOME received from that tithe. They couldn't take 10% of what they got from the sale and use that as their tithe.

Just once again proving my point that INCOME could not be tithed upon.

Numbers 18:27 (KJV) “And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress.”

IF you fully understand Numbers 18:27 in context, you will see that it PROVES that income could NOT be tithed on. Without that interpretation, that verse has no meaning and is just taking up space.

^
It seems when i'm on FM, then you're on AM. And when i try to get on AM, you switch to SW. We were discussing on whether people's salaries/income today was equivalent to harvest(which you refused to see as 'income'). Not about israelis going to Jerusalem to eat festival tithe or wharreva. Remember?

@Image123,

We were discussing on whether people's salaries/income today was equivalent to harvest(which you refused to see as 'income').

ONLY that which is RECEIVED from either SELLING or BARTER EXCHANGING any part of the harvest would be income. Any amount kept for the family's food would not even be available to sell or exchange. So not all of the harvest would be available to be sold or exchanged. Yet the tithe was on the entire amount of the harvest. Same with the animals. EVERY TENTH ANIMAL was the animal tithed. Doesn't mean the herdsman sold even one animal that year. So the farmer and herdsman tithed whether they had any income or not.

Example of income:
1 - payment or goods received for services performed
2 - money or goods received from the sale or exchange of merchandise/items
3 - money or goods received from investments; i.e. interest or proceedes from a sale

@Image123,

Let's say Mr. X is a carpenter.  He may work most of the year building a house for himself.  Does he have any income from that?  He now has a house that he, himself built.  Does he have income?  The value of his assets obviously increased.  But he wouldn't have any income UNTIL he sells or exchanges that house.

What are goods received from investment? Is sowing not an investment? Is the harvest not received from this investment? This is not an accounting exam gary. This is reality, application of knowledge. A man who builds a house has only converted his wealth from paper to sand. He had it alright already and probably tithed it before building from the remaining resource. It was his before as cash, and is now still his as house.

^^^
good point

@Image123,

I can't understand how YOU can't understand the simple concept of income.

Without the carpenters LABOR, there would be no house.  Many times a products cost is mostly from the LABOR and not the materials.  But there is no INCOME from that LABOR until the product is sold.

You can receive goods instead of money from an investment.  A good example is the following:

During the 1980s many banks were "paying" interest on a Certificate of Deposit by giving the investor a choice of money OR a TV or other merchandise.

If YOU are a plumber and your neighbor is a dentist, and you exchange services, you both have income.  YOUR income would be the value of the service received from the dentist, and the neighbors income would be the value of the services he received from you (a barter exchange).

Tithing was NEVER on income.  I have proven that by DEFINITION and not by interpretation.  Since the word income does not appear in the KJV of the Bible, but the term is being used today with tithing, we have to use the current definition of income.  When we apply this definition to the scriptures, we find that tithing was NEVER on income.

You absolutely refuse to accept the proper definition of income.

Since the word INCOME is an accounting term (and even more so the term "gross income", you can't ignore the accounting use.  There is no other use of the word.

Lucky for you, your employer (if you work for an employer) tells you what figure you must report on your income tax return.  Otherwise, I have absolutely no idea how you would work out your income for tax purposes.  You make up your own definitions!

The opposite of income is expenditure (right from Webster's Dictionary).

Stop making up your own definitions and stick with the scriptures.

@garyarnold

But there is no INCOME from that LABOR until the product is sold.

You can receive goods instead of money from an investment.

The bolded is what i'm saying, i think. It doesn't have to be money. Income may be something else, of the same agreed value.

Since the word income does not appear in the KJV of the Bible, but the term is being used today with tithing

In the KJV you say. Well it's synonyms do appear (increase, yield, wages etc)

You absolutely refuse to accept the proper definition of income. Stop making up your own definitions and stick with the scriptures.

What is the 'proper' definition of income? I do not deny your textbook definition, i've been saying that it's not limited to that! Income is not limited to accounting class, or practising bookkeepers. People have being receiving income since days of yore, before there was ever a business book. Income is simply something that comes in, an inflow, profit, returns, revenue, earnings, proceeds, yield, wages, pay, salary, take-home pay, takings, produce, result, what english can i use again? i understand you have a career on teaching people on money and against tithe, but drop this bigotry.

I as a person i strongly disagree people paying tithe. Historically, Melchizedek and Abraham are the initiators of tithe. The first received while the later paid. Now the first was a priest, no mother, father, sibling and geneology, so he received tithe, but another priest arose called christ, now in biblical perspective, if there's a change in the priesthood, there's also a change in the law. So the former priesthood received tithe while the new (christ) do not. Pls read with understanding the book of Hebrews 7: verse 1 -down

Christ came in the order of Melchizedek , tithe collection was Revealed in the order of mechizedek. There is no single scripture where God or any prophet spoke against tithing. Jesus endorsed it the only time he made reference to it. If no single scripture condemend tithing ,we have no right to condemn it. Whoever is not convinced in his heart to tithe is free, but should not condemned those who believe in tithing .

@unclejoe
I am forced to remind you again that the bible described tithing as weak, useless and unprofitable in the book of Hebrew 7:5-19

@image
Any which way you want to twist it, when God gave instructions concerning tithes to the children of israel[not christians] tithe was strictly to be given from the produce of the land of Israel and the farm animals and NOT their income. And it is quite certain that there were several other sources of monetary income at their time which they were never asked to tithe from. You can't go around twisting and amending the word of God just becos it is convinient for the clergy. We all know as christians that it is a very grievious sin to twist the word of God. Tithing as it is preached and practised today is an assault on the word of God, it is totally different from the biblical tithe which is not even applicable to christians. Of cause trying to justify tithes today based on Abraham's one off unsolicited example is also a fraud cause abraham's tithe was not from his income as preached today and there is no injunction for believers to copy even his one off example.

@ joagbaje, the book of Hebrews, chapter 7 verse 1 down lets us knw that theres a change in the levitical priesthood, so if there's a change in the levitical priesthood to Judah, there is a change in the law. If i may ask u, can u pay real tithe as practiced by the israelites?

@Image123,

All income is increase. All increase is NOT income.

You don't want to use a "text book" definition of income. You also don't want to use God's definition of His tithe. What you want to do is make up the definitions to fit what you want.

Using a Hebrews concordance and dictionary, you find that EVERY SINGLE TIME the word "increase" is used when referring to the tithe, it is referring to the increase of the seed (crops) and NEVER anything else. You want to EXPAND the Biblical meaning to fit what you want it to mean.

You might as well also EXPAND the requirements for salvation while you are at it. Just take the Bible and do away with "text book" definitions and make the scriptures say anything you want them to say. That, my friend, is what you are doing.

Didn't God make it clear to you that we are NOT to add to His Word? You want to EXPAND His Word.

You won't find any scripture showing that those receiving wages in the OT tithed on those wages. You won't find any scripture showing that Jesus, as a carpenter, ever tithed on any "increase" from his carpentry work, or from his pay as a carpenter. You won't find any scripture to show that Peter ever tithed on the fish that he caught. You won't find scripture to show that Paul tithed on every tenth tent that he made, or on any income he received as a tent maker. You won't find any scripture where anyone, other than owners of the promised land tithed per God's commands to tithe.

Abraham tithed on war spoils that didn't even belong to him, and kept nothing for himself. There is no scripture to show that Abraham ever tithed on any of his regular income or wealth.

You have absolutely NOTHING in the scriptures to justify any tithing today.

@Joagbaje,

Christ came in the order of Melchizedek

Do you even understand what that means? If so, please explain it to me.

Image123 reminds me of dishonest pastors who take a word from scripture and change the definition to fit their own needs; i.e.

Malachi 3:10 (KJV)  "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, "

Just look at what pastors do with the word "meat" in this verse.  Yet, using the Strongs Hebrew concordance-dictionary, we find the word meat means FOOD, just like you would use the word at the dinner table.  NOTHING ELSE.  Meat doesn't mean money, The Word, or anything else.

Pastors take words and CHANGE THE MEANING resulting in many Christians missing the true meaning of the scriptures.  God warns us of these false teachers.

Same with the word "harvest."  Where the scriptures talk about a harvest, meaning the gathering of crops, Pastors take the term out of context and apply it to your earnings.  Again, God warns us of these false teachers.

Just show how gullible church goers can be.

^^^
@gary
Abeg help me tell am oh! I have been having this debate with image123 yet he refuses to yield to the clear truth of the scriptures. He would rather stick to the twisted version. I suspect very strongly that like his partner in crime joagbaje, he is benefiting from the illicit tithes proceeds hence his eagerness defend the scam despite the overwhelming evidence against it.

Repeating yourself is not equal to overwhelming evidence. You just show that it's hard for you to learn. Makes the phrase 'He that HAS ears to hear' so relevant. It's one thing to have ears to hear, it's another not to have at all.

@Image123, maybe I can add my thoughts here. Please note I have not gone through any dictionary, so I could be wrong, and don’t hesitate to correct me if you believe I am.

The harvest is not an income. Let’s consider a manufacturing concern like Unilever or Nestle. To produce Milo, Nestle will combine a number of raw materials (your seed) in addition to labour. The end product which is Milo (your harvest) is still an asset (stock) of finished goods which is kept in the warehouse. It becomes or generates income only sales are made to customers. Shell or Exxon-Mobil extracts crude oil from the ground, the crude is not income to the company till it’s sold.

Let even assume that this is income (which of course is not true, but let just assume), the business man then must tithe from what his business generates and not his profit as some people believes.

I see a bit more complexity in the tithe of the flocks. It says every tenth animal that passes under the rod is holy unto the Lord. What I see here is that you can tithe from your flock year after year even if there were no new additions in the year. The tithe was not from the additions to your assets. The fact that the tithe is the tenth animal means you don’t tithe if you have just nine. So you see not everything is tithe-able  

garyarnold:

Image123 reminds me of dishonest pastors who take a word from scripture and change the definition to fit their own needs;

Image is not a dishonest pastor. I understand his plight. It’s not easy to accept as false, something you believed in and have been practicing for quite a while.

Joagbaje:

Christ came in the order of Melchizedek , tithe collection was Revealed in the order of mechizedek.

This is nonsense You should be ashamed of yourself Jo. You don’t blame me when I use unkind words here, it’s not my fault. I just don’t understand why you keep repeating this nonsense

@ zikkyy, that is never nonse going by the book of Hebrews chapter 7, xcept u want it to suit ur doctrine. My bros, christ came in the order of Melchizedek but this time not from the tribe of Levi but Judah, so God's law on tithe to the Levi by the israelites has change.

Nsiman:

My bros, christ came in the order of Melchizedek

I was referring to this bit below:

Joagbaje:

tithe collection was Revealed in the order of mechizedek. 

And for your info, Hebrews 7 was never about tithe.