Image123:

@thehomer
my post is not about whether God made some people a certain way or did not. I left that for you to answer after you've answered the questions that i asked which you quoted.

My own point is that God did not make anyone in any way rendering your question moot. My approach is to point out that even if one were to accept that a God made man in a certain way, this God would not be a good God that is worthy of worship.

Image123:

my position is that homosexuality is a deficiency, an abnormality, a pitiable state. No one should stay in it giving excuses of 'i was born that way, it's my right, why did God create me that way'etc.

Homosexuals, their family members, human culture and various professionals do not see it as a deficiency, abnormality or a pitiable state so comparing it to physical ailments is simply not appropriate.

Hi Mr. Homer?

Do you regard homos.exuality as natural?

Deep Sight:

Hi Mr. Homer?

Do you regard homos.exuality as natural?

I know your comment was directed at the homer, but a discussion on whether homosexuality is natural has been done on nairaland several and it just never goes anywhere.

Deep Sight:

Hi Mr. Homer?

Do you regard homos.exuality as natural?

That would depend on what you mean here by natural.

In blue below a previous argument i had advanced against the notion that homos.exuality is natural.

@ SEFAGO;

@ Sagamite -

Interesting debate you have going on. May i present myself as a judge of sorts. I do happen to have a legal background.

In reaching my conclusions, i shall use the premises and resultant conclusion set forth by Sefago below:

SEFAGO:

Basically my argument is predicated on these premises:
1) Humans are animals
2) Animals engage in homosexuality
Conclusion: Therefore in the natural order of things homosexuality is not a deviance from expected biological behavior.

Premise 1 - Humans are Animals.

Although this premise is only partially correct, and may be said to be an over-statement or a limitation of definition regarding the nature of humanity, i will not dwell on it because humans undisputably are given of some of the same physical instincts as animals are. I will therefore give this premise a pass mark. Let's proceed.

Premise 2 - Animals engage in Homo Sexuality.

Now this premise is fraught with severe problems. Some of these problems are:

    1. It is a mis-characterization of an exception as a rule:

Let me elucidate:If one were to state: "Human beings eat food" - the direct inference would be that eating food is a normal and standard practice for human beings. That would be a correct inference as the statement has been set out in broad, generalistic terms. 

Let's take another statement: "Human beings are cannibals." This is another broad generalistic statement that could lead to a wrong inference: namely, that it is in the nature of human beings to be cannibals, and thus a normal and standard human practice. The correct way to phrase this statement would be - "Some human beings are cannibals." In this way it becomes clear that it is not necessarily within the nature of human beings to be cannibals, but that some human beings do practice such.

This is why i said that the second premise is a mis-characterization of an exception as a rule. It should properly have read: "Some animals engage in homosexuality" - thus making it clear that homosexuality is not necessarily the norm within the animal sub-set.

If it is not the norm within the animan sub-set, we can hardly use this premise to reach a conclusion that it is anything but an exception for human beings (who, by the way, have a higher ethical reasoning capacity). That would be a fundamental contradiction in terms.

Even if the foregoing reasoning is wrong (i doubt that it is), there is a second and even more fundamental problem with the premise. This problem concerns the nature of animal homosexuality in the first place. To wit -

2. Animals are not homosexual in the proper definition of the word. Let's watch the cases of so-called animal homosexuality. Do such cases have any co-relation with human homosexuality? I contend that they are entirely dissimilar. This is the reason:

Animals do not make a distinction regarding the object of their sexual attention with reference to instinctive physical motions. For example when my dog is on heat, he will attempt to mount anything at all: including humans. He will push himself against a pole, against me, and against other dogs (male or female) in excercising the instinctive sexual motion. He does not see and develop a desire for a fellow male, he only makes instinctive sexual motions directed at anything. This is significantly different from humans who will see and have specific desires for persons of the same sex. No animal will engage in homosexual conduct if there is an available female on hand, against which it may throw its instinctive physical motions, but human homosexuality will actively disdain the female and specifically desire the male.

If you appreciate the foregoing, you will understand that animals are not in fact homosexual at all - in the proper sense of the word. Do they have a homosexual desire? Can you show me even one single animal that only sexually targets the same sex? You cannot, because animals are not homosexual in the definition of the word, and their so-called acts of homosexuality, comparatively speaking, are really just mindless acts of self-service on any available entity.

Therefore, on either or both planks - the point must emphatically be made that animal acts of homosexuality can never be a premise for human homosexuality because as i have shown above -

    i. Animals are not homosexual within the context of homosexual desire and

   ii. Even if they are, it is the case that some animals are, and not all. It is the exception, rather than the rule, and as such this could not possibly make a case for human homo-sexuality being anything but the same: the exception and not the rule.

Given that the premise fails, the conclusion also naturally fails.

However, the Conclusion, if i might add, suffers independent problems of its own.

The conclusion states: "Therefore in the natural order of things homosexuality is not a deviance from expected biological behavior."

Can we define the word "deviation".

Without bothering to consult a dictionary, i suppose that we can all agree that a deviation is a departure from a norm, a variation or a digression.

"Expected biological behaviour", must clearly refer to the in-built sexual orientation geared towards biological goals. That's the only apt use of the word "biological" within that phrase. It is patently clear, from both the structure of reproductive organs, and the biological result of copulation (reproduction) that the sexual behaviour expected by nature should be heterosexual in nature. In addittion to the fact that homosexuality is not the norm in any human society, it could thus be said to be both un-natural and anti-social. At the very minimum, it definitely represents a deviation, however that may be defined.

With a heavy heart, although i do appreciate SEFAGO's good efforts and good reasoning, i am constrained on the basis of the deductions set forth above, to conclude that both his premises and his conclusion are deficient and significantly flawed even in terms of logic alone, but also in terms of sociological and biological considerations.

However: addressing the topic of this thread, i must state without much ado that although i previously had a murderous attitude to the very idea that any person could be gay, i concede that it is patently obvious, and also empirically verified, that some persons have abnormal hormonal imbalances which affect their sexual orientation. Some men have degrees of female hormones that render them effeminate, and some women (beard and all) have degrees of male hormones that render them mannish, and thus inclined to become lesbians. This is a scientific fact, and no person can contest this.

But in summary - it's ceratinly abnormal and unnatural and perhaps scientific solutions (such as hormonal re-balancing) should be sought.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-279591.864.html#msg4603721

We have been through this discussion before in which I actually responded to this particular post of yours.

Here's a link to the discussion.

The assumption of the OP is false in the first place as he assumes that God makes homosexuals and then he goes on to ask why.  Below is a research based article that warns of the danger of affirming the homosexual lifestyle among school pulpils.

The Danger of Affirming Homosexuality in the Public Schools

Modern culture increasingly embraces the notion that homosexuals are born, not made.  It is even sometimes presented as fact that a "gay gene" compels some people to seek same-sex partners.  In that vein, more and more public school educators are being pressured to present homosexuality as a normal lifestyle that should be affirmed in students who feel they might be gay.  The American College of Paediatricians, however, has issued a caution to educators warning of the dangers of these falsehoods.

An open letter addressed to school superintendents cited portions of The Language of God, a book by National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins.  He wrote that homosexuality is "not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations." ¹  Dr. Collins, who is also the former director of the Genome Project, summarized studies showing that no known gene compels any behaviour, and he further stated that "environment, particularly childhood experiences, and the prominent role of individual free will choices have a profound effect on us."²

A news release from the college stated that "schools should not seek to develop policy which 'affirms' or encourages these non-heterosexual attractions among students who may merely be experimenting or experiencing temporary sexual confusion."³

Nor are there merely moral motivations underlying this admonition.  The letter provided a link to a fact sheet that highlights research-based conclusions that counter pro-homosexual school programmes.  For example:

"The homosexual lifestyle, especially for males, carries grave health risks . . . For many youth, homosexual attraction develops due to negative or traumatic experiences, such as sexual abuse. These students need therapy for the trauma, not affirmation of a "gay identity."⁴

The letter also cited a "landmark survey and analysis of 125 years of scientific studies" into homosexuality.⁵  This survey affirmed that sexual orientation can be changed with therapy, especially among youth who are undergoing temporary sexual identity questions.  In addition, homosexuals are plagued by far more diseases and suicides than heterosexuals, making it a very dangerous lifestyle.

Indeed, another study concluded that homosexuality and its associated practices serve to shorten life spans by 20 to 30 years.⁶

Both observations--that homosexuality is caused by choices and influences and not by DNA, and that a homosexual lifestyle is utterly unsafe--are consistent with a biblical worldview.  On the one hand, the Creator intended that male and female "shall be one flesh."⁷ And on the other hand, He uses the harsh consequences of disregarding those intentions as a kind of natural tutor to bring people back into relationship with Him.  Romans 1 explicitly named homosexuality as deserving of judgment, but the next chapter warned anyone who would heed:

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life".⁸

Adolescents are vulnerable to confusions and outside influences as they make the transition from child to adult.  A school environment that encourages a child to "come out" or self-identify as gay--especially based on false or misleading information--can cause tremendous harm.  As the American College of Paediatricians' letter to school officials states:

It is the school's legitimate role to provide a safe environment for respectful self-expression for all students.  It is not the school's role to diagnose and attempt to treat any student's medical condition, and certainly not a school's role to "affirm" a student's perceived personal sexual orientation .¹

The efforts of the American College of Paediatricians and others who care for the well-being of youth are to be commended.

For more . . . .

If you Christian preachers claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

[quote="xgel"]Why did God make homosexuals?[/quote]

[size=14pt]I doubt God created anyone. If God did then He/She may be as dumb as a doornail. After millions of years of practice on billions of humans, the dude cannot still get it right. [/size]

Horus:

If you Christian preachers claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

These evil spirits don't die, they live on in other willing hosts.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5003/5003_01.asp

God ddnt make homosexuals , satan did , all God made was good according to genesis in the Bible

Before i answer the poster's question, i'd like to make it clear that the Christian god is nothing more than fable stories cooked up by nomadic goat herders in the middle east and further improved by the Greeks to suit their purpose of puppeteering the masses. It is no different from Islam and other religious sects round the globe (and is no different from our stories of evolution e.g Orunmila,Sango,Amadioha and so on). If anyone feels different, then show ONE concrete proof that the bible is indeed the word of the creator (without referring to the same bible that is filled with hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions). Show concrete proof and not what you have been brainwashed to believe from childhood.

Back to the topic of discussion. . .

First of all, the idea of homosexuality is detestable to me. As a man, i sometimes wonder how another man can feel attracted to another man and the thought of it is horrid and disgusting. That being said, i know it's something that has been going on since the inception of mankind and there's little or nothing that can be done about it. From the tone of the posters thread, it's clear that he believes that homosexuality is against the law of his god. I would like him to know that his god no only supports homosexuality but also IN-CESTTT (sleeping with people of the same blood e.g your sister,mother and daughters). It's all there in that book of lies and stories you claim to be the word of some non existent god that only exists in your mind. I'll give you two examples and i want you to go back to that book of delusion called the bible and read it through with a crystal clear matured mind to understand the contents :

(1) The David and Jonathan Saga : These two men had a relationship that would raise eyebrows in today's world. They were so "close" that they swore oaths to each other and upheld covenants. During the time David was hiding from Saul's wrath, Jonathan met him in his hiding place. . .They embraced,kissed and wept together and after they were "done", Jonathan cried out : "THE LOVE YOU HAVE SHOWN TO ME TODAY EXCEEDS THE LOVE OF WOMEN"! ! !. Pause for 10 seconds and picture a man telling another man the same thing in today's world that "the love the other man just showed him exceeds that of a woman". They say a word is enough for the wise. I don't need to go into much explanation but the few rational people on this forum can break it all down and grasp what i'm trying to say in seconds.

(2) Lot and his "lovely" daughters : According to the biblical myth, Lot lost his wife when she turned back to look at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and she was instantly turned into a pillar of salt. Fast forward a little bit and we have Lot's daughter's getting worried that their aged father might die and they would remain barren with no offspring to carry on their generation/family name. What did they do? They make they father drunk, he slept with them,they got pregnant and bore kids. This is a 100% clear cut case of IN-CesSttT! ! ! Did the all knowing,all seeing, ominpotent, no nonsense biblical god send fire and brimstone to destroy them? NO! And do i need remind the so called bible believers that the main reason why the biblical story god destroyed the city of Sodom and Gomorrah was for their sexual depravity? It was because of "sins" like these. I know a lot of reetards will come and give one dumb a$$ lame excuse to defend this anomaly (some will even say it's because they were "god's" children that's why he spared them). I will not waste my time bantering back and forth with dullards. Those few objective people on this forum know what i'm getting at.

Now let's go back to that Lot's story again. . .

I don't know about other people but personally, there is no way on earth i can be so high and drunk not to know the difference between a lady i can sleep with and a blood relative (a daughter for that matter! ! !) Even if i am drunk on 3 bottles of Hennessey, the instinct remains there to guide you in differentiating what's right from wrong. If Lot slept with his daughters, it was because HE WANTED to. The alcohol only made it easier for him to do what he had in mind and for those who drink, we all know that alcohol is a sort of "truth serum". It brings out what we really are. If a person assaults someone when he/she is drunk, it's because they have always wanted to do it and not because they "lost" their senses.

Nuff said!

LittleNerd:

God ddnt make homosexuals , satan did , all God made was good according to genesis in the Bible

But according to the same bible your God is also The Creator of evil. According to Isaiah 45:7 the Lord that you go to church and worship every Sunday created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

Please read it in your bible in Isaiah 45:7

Horus:

But according to the same bible your God is also The Creator of evil. According to Isaiah 45:7 the Lord that you go to church and worship every Sunday created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

Please read it in your bible in Isaiah 45:7

ill be sure to check into that

@ Poster, My brother or sister, God did not make homosexuals. It is SIN (disobedience to God) that marred his creation. (Genesis 3)

Gen1:26-31
"26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

Yet God did not allow us to wallow in our sins and perish eternally. Graciously and mercifully He sent His own dear Son, the Lord Jesus Christ
to come and take on himself the just punishment that is due to us, so that whoever believes and places his/her faith on him will be saved from eternal condemnation. This is the simple message of salvation being proclaimed in the world today. However there are many today who hates to hear this message because, I Corinthians 1:18-25(NIV) says:

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written:

   “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
   the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

@ harakiri - Irony of Ironies

1.  You want to make it clear that "the Christian god is nothing more than fable stories cooked up by nomadic goat herders in the middle east, "
2.  The Bible is "further improved by the Greeks to suit their purpose of puppeteering the masses." (whatever that means!)
3.  According to you, "It is no different from Islam and other religious sects round the globe (and is no different from our stories of evolution e.g
     Orunmila,Sango,Amadioha and so on)."
4.  You want one concrete proof outside the Bible: "then show ONE concrete proof that the bible is indeed the word of the creator (without
     referring   to the same bible that is filled with hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions)."
5.  Incest - "It's all there in that book of lies and stories you claim to be the word of some non existent god that only exists in your mind."

Observations:

Why are all your summations ironies? The same Bible you're castigating and discrediting and insulting the Almighty Creator God, is the SAME
Bible you used in advancing and proving your points - yet you don't want this same Bible to be used in giving you answers to your question.

Mark it and mark it clearly - You (as a human being made in the image of God) are the very proof that God truly exists and His word the Bible is true. Remember,  The fool says in his heart,  “There is no God.”  (Psalm 14:1)

How would you have known what incest is, if the Bible had not reported it. The Bible is a mirror that reflects all that is wrong with mankind. It is the ONLY road map for mankind's salvation including you. The Bible does not hide anybody's sins and does not condones it.

The mere fact that you picked on the Christian God alone to malign shows that something is terribly wrong somewhere. You cannot understand the
Christian God by insulting Him. You really have to humble yourself and come to him with a repentant heart. Rule out pride if you want to know the
Christian God.

Why do you "detest" the idea of homosexuality? Why is the thought of it "horrid and disgusting" to you? Is it your conscience telling you how
wrong it is? Who put that conscience in you? Is it God or evolution and the other gods that you have mentioned? Other religions shows man
by his own futile efforts trying to seek a Holy and Just God. Whereas Christianity is God reaching down to sinful mankind through His Son Jesus Christ as the ONLY means of saving him.

Without God and His Son Jesus Christ, mankind is on her way to perdition. It is only Jesus who can save. Run to him for your life and be saved.

I Corinthians 2: 10b-16 (NIV)
", The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

   “Who has known the mind of the Lord
   so as to instruct him?”

   But we have the mind of Christ. "

horus - (Egyptian god), in ancient Egyptian religion, god in the form of a falcon whose eyes were the sun and the moon. Falcon cults were
widespread in Egypt - Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Always read the Bible in context. I can also quote a verse from the same chapter in Isaiah for you. And how about this:
Isaiah 45:22-24
22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.


harakiri - ritual suicide by disembowelment practiced by the Japanese samurai or formerly decreed by a court in lieu of the death penalty: merriam-
webster.com

Well on a lighter note, just don't commit suicide yet, its not worth it.

Just as a "sidely" comment, can all the Satan-haters Please Please stop blaming Satan for all the Evil than Man is evidently responsible for. Sure he has a sweet tongue and is a pretty good liar and a good marketer as well. Deep down we know who is responsible   the ones seeking redemption and who will surely be held responsible for their actions.

Genesis 6:5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Homosexuality is a choice not a Spiritual Ailment or a Case of Demon-Possession (as Rev. OLAADEGBU would have us believe ) We all have innate desires, how we choose to fulfill them is our choice not the Devil's mind-control skills (How could he possess God-anointed Priests!!  ). Leave a bunch of straight guys in a prison cell long enough, they will choose to fulfill their se.xual desires one way or another. Some just do not need the right conditions to fulfill their desires or make their way of life. It is a Choice and God certainly did not make that choice for Man either  

Carry on,

Homosexuals, their family members, human culture and various professionals do not see it as a deficiency, abnormality or a pitiable state

This is a lie.

@Horus
The Bible didn't say that God destroyed sodom and gomorrah because of homosexuality. Always get your facts right please. Their cup of sins was full, and they were punished/judged, it's not stated anywhere in the Bible that it was an attempt to eradicate homosexuality.

@harakiri
You're just being naughty and silly, learn to behave your age and at least act like someone with some exposure. So God supports incest and homosexuality? you no try. Go and improve your comprehension instead of forcing your urges into bible passages. People kiss as a form of greeting in some cultures. Read the passage in context with the whole plot of 1Samuel. It seems nothing satisfies you. If God punishes, He's cruel, if He doesn't punish, He's supporting wrong.your own judgements will condemn you on judgement day if you do not repent.

Image123:

This is a lie.

Which part?

@image123. . . Like i said earlier,i'm not here to banter back and forth with reetards. Your post alone shows your level of "maturity".

Dear Nairalanders,

Lets me contribute my two cents to this discussion. I hope you guys keep an open mind and respond politely if you wish. The issue of homosexuality is a complex yet it is not supposed to be so complex. Like they say, you cannot understand another man's situation if you have not walked in his shoes. And if you are heterosexual, you can never understand the struggles and experiences of a homosexual person. I just hope that you will try to put yourself in those shoes for a minute while you read this. The most important thing I want you to do is to keep an open mind and not equate homosexuality with just a sexual act. Afterall, when you think of heterosexuality, you dont think of sex. You think feelings, love, the need for human companionship and maybe sex down the line. But sex is not the building block. In the same vein, a 15 year -old boy may discover that he only has same sex feelings but he never actually engages in same sex activity all his life as he enters the priesthood. That doesnt make him any less gay. He was gay at 15 and he will be gay all his life. that he never engages in the a sexual act doesnt change who you are attracted to. Or do you think priests and reverend sisters and 12 year old kids are asexual? Ofcourse not. You may not be engaged in sex, but it doesnt mean you do not have a sexual orientation. Its either gay or straight. So please lets disentangle this discourse from sexual intercourse. Its about who you are drawn to emotionally, physically and spiritually.

First and foremost, I believe the cardinal bone of contention here is that most people find it had to believe that people are born gay. The real question is, Are people born heterosexual? If you believe that you were born heterosexual then do you think it is possible that some people were born gay? I want to assume that if you are straight that there was never a point in your life when you were attracted to both males and females; after which you then decided to choose the opposite sex. Did you ever get to make that conscious choice? I doubt it. Then why do you think that a gay person was given that choice by God? Why would anybody ever choose to be attracted to the same sex when he knows the price that he will pay in society? The risks are numerous- your family will disown you in a heartbeat, all your friends will abandon you and any hope for a real fulfilling future is gone; all because for no reason, you hit puberty and you discover that you are different.

If you are straight, you may not understand this. But I assume that if you are a guy that around the age of 11-12, you started becoming interested in girls. That is normal at puberty. Imagine if at that age you find yourself with no attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex, but only to your own sex. That is the reality of a gay person. You try to fight it. You try to go to all the church deliverances and say all the prayers and promise God everything if only he will just take it away- If only he will just make you normal. Believe me, that is the only prayer of gay people. You try hard to keep the secret and you also are afraid that if anybody finds out the secret, that you may be mobbed in a heartbeat. It is hard enough for a heterosexual teenage boy to stay focused in school and stuff because hormones are raging and you want to chyke guys and all. Imagine how much harder it is for gay people when you know that what you have is what Oscar Wilde called 'the love that dare not speak its name'. You can't tell anyone about it. You just live with your secret into your twenties. Some are bold enough to carry on with secret relationships with their peers just like their heterosexual mates are doing. Others torture themselves everyday because they cannot reconcile what they feel inside with what their religion and society has told them that they should feel. Its no wonder that the rates of teenage depression, suicide and all is so high. In the US, teenage suicide among gay teens is 7 times what it is in heterosexual teens- This means that for every 100 suicides among teenagers, more than 80 of these will be gay teens - usually those struggling to come to terms with their sexuality or experiencing rejection or discrimination from their friends and families. Do you think 14, 15 year old teenagers will want to kill themselves over something they could change? Think again. Do you know the kind of emotional turmoil that a gay person must be in to think that the best solution is to take your life and just escape this earth and its hardship? I'm sure you cant begin to imagine this. But like I said, try and walk in the homosexuals shoes for a minute because unless you can do this you will never understand his life experiences.

But then, you are a human being- with hormones and real feelings. Just like a 15 or 16 year old boy would see a girl in his class and like to 'toast' her, there also gay people who are surrounded by people that they are attracted to- but who they dont want to be attracted to. Its simple biology. Every human being has the capacity to love and be loved. But people do not control the sex they are attracted to. If you are straight and think it is a choice, I bet that If I offer you a billion dollars to turn gay, that you will not be able to. And by turning gay i mean that you will be genuinely attracted emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and then physically to someone of your same sex. Believe me, you cannot do it. Why? Because you were not born that way. It is the same way for people who are gay. They have tried and tried and begged God and done everything but it doesnt go away. Most importantly, most gay people do not have the natural attraction to the opposite sex - so what should they do? They just cannot connect emotionally, spiritually and physically to the opposite sex as they can to their own sex. Its plain and simple. It would be easier for some if they had a natural capacity to like both sexes- truly Bisexual people have that capacity and so they can swing both ways naturally. But for most gay people, they are forced by societal and religious pressure to go into heterosexual relationships that they are not naturaly equipped to go into.

In Nigeria, we dont even acknowledge the existence of homosexuality and so I'm sure that we may have no statistics on the magnitude of this issue. If we are to go by what the researchers say, 2-5 % of every population is gay. Every population means every population and not just Western population like we want to believe. In other accounts, this proportion is closer to 10%. This will mean that close to 15 million Nigerian are most likely gay. Gay people seem to be non-existent because in truth, heterosexuals are about 80-90% of people and they will always be the majority. Its just the way nature works. As the most populous black nation on earth, it also means that we have the highest concentration of black gay people on this earth. I am not saying this to alarm you, but it is just a reality of life and nature that will shock you probably because you may think that you dont know too many gay people personally. But then, who in his right sense will tell another person in Nigeria that he is gay. People just carry on with their secret affairs and pretend that everything is ok. We are a nation that is notorious for hidding things under the basket.

Most gay people go ahead and get married. For most of them, they may like and even learn to LOVE their spouses, but they will never be IN LOVE with their spouses because they can never connect on that level with them. And I believe that every one deserves to be with someone that is truly IN LOVE with them and not someone that is using them as a cover for the busy-body Nigerian society that will begin to wonder why this middle-aged Nigerian man is not married. If you are woman, you want a man that loves you completely and you will be utterly heartbroken to find out that your husband is gay and is having affairs with men outside. Yes, with men. A married gay man will not have affairs with women, it is with men- because it is men that he is truly attracted to and their is nothing that his 'poor' wife can do to change his biology or to give him emotional and yes- sexual, satisfaction. And believe me sexual satisfaction is a big part of every relationship- gay or straight. Most importantly, his poor wife will not be genuinely loved and may not have a fulfilling sex life because the man is not genuinely attracted to her. So we have an innocent woman who is trapped in a loveless marriage with a man who may contract an STD anytime if he is not careful. This is what they call the 'Down low syndrome' among African American communities- gay men who are forced to live straight live and have wives and girlfriends. Believe me, this scenario I just recounted is living and thriving in our own Naija as it is in all parts of the world. In more open cities like Lagos, there is a thriving gay prostitution scene where 'respectable' men go to satisfy their passions. Some men, enter into long term relationships with their 'buddies' while still keeping their wives. Secrets, Secrets and Lies everywhere. I'll use the handedness analogy for this issue because it is very appropriate. About 10% of people are born left-handed while 90% are born right-handed. Its an in-born thing which in times past was seen as an abomination. There were times when left-handed people were persecuted and killed (you can do your research on this). In Nigeria now, left-handed kids still have it tough. Most parents try to change their kids and most parent succeed in making them learn to use their right hands. Still, those kids never truly lose the function of their left hands. They just learn to become ambidextrous and they learn to write and eat and take stuff from their elders with their right hands. But after all said and done, they are all still most comfortable with the left and always resort to it when no one is looking or when they are all grown up. For a small percentage, they will never learn to use their right hands and they are the ones whom their parents will always flog. Still, they never are able to learn it. Its just their nature. It is that way with gay people. You may force yourself out of societal pressure to be with the opposite sex but you never truly loose your attraction for your own sex. Most times, this leads to cheating in marriages. For the small percentage of gay men and women who cannot even fake an attaction to the opposite sex, there are like the perpetual left-handers- unable to conform to society's expectation, not out of their own stubbornness but because of how God created them

Who do we blame for this kind of double life? It is easy to blame the gay man or woman, but then we should ask ourselves- what role do we play in cultivating this kind of double life? Isnt society to blame for being so hostile to the idea of homosexuality that people are forced to live in the closet and deny an essential part of themselves? I'll tell you this, if you know anybody that is openly gay in Nigeria and has chosen not to marry but to be honest with themselves, you should go up to them and give them a handshake. Because they have defied all the pressure from religion and society to do the honorable thing and live life with dignity instead of deceiving an innocent person into marriage. They are the ones that have chosen to obey their consciences and be honest. Most importantly, for that gay married person, can you imagine how unhappy his life is. Knowing that you have to lie everyday and that you cannot truly be yourself or be with someone you may truly love because of society. Its a hopeless situation and thing can only begin to get better when people realise that the gay person cannot change to a heterosexual anymore than the heterosexual can turn gay. People are just made that way by God for his own reasons and it does not go away anymore than a heterosexual person suddenly stops being heterosexual. Once we learn this truth, we can begin to accept people for what they are and then they may feel comfortable living honest lives. But we cannot expect people to acknowledge their homosexuality when we as a society will want to treat them as second class citizens.

As a gay Christians will tell you, they have made peace with themselves and they know that God loves them the way they are. They do not consider a same-sex loving couple in a monogamous relationship to be a sin and I dont either. By this relationship, I mean 2 people of the same sex who are comlpletely devoted to each other and have chosen to build a life together. In some countries in the West and even in South Africa, they are legally married and some of them have biological or adopted kids and are as normal as every family. The only difference is that both partners are of the same sex. And please get your head out of the gutter and dont think about what they do in bed or how they do it in bed because it is not anybody's business what happens in the confines on one's bed chambers. This may seem silly to some of you but I ask you to read on. First and foremost, I want you to use you brain because God gave it to to you for a reason - to think independently and make up your mind on issues. Ignore whatever you have been told that the Bible said and look for God's answers on your own. Now, there is a school of thought that says that Biblical interpretation should be taken literally- that is, just exactly the way it is written in the Bible, while there is a second school of thought that says that you should look at everything said in the Bible in the context of the times in which it was written. i belong to the second school of thought.

Let me begin by saying that we all know that people say that the Bible is the 'word' of God. I agree that the Bible was inspired by God; but it was not written by God. It was written by inspired men who wrote in their own 'words' and not God's exact 'words'. This men wrote within their own socio-cultural context and this is abundant when we consider the things in the bible that we ignore today because it doesnt make sense in our time. The literalist will always throw the passages in Leviticus that say that a man must not lie with another man because it is an abomination. However, the literalist also tries to forget verses in that same Leviticus that say that if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, that she should be taken back to her father's house and stoned to death; and that a disobedient child should also be stoned to death. This same Leviticus said that it was an abomination to mix two types of fabrics together. It also calls it an abomination to eat shellfish. And the list goes on and on, It called all these things an abomination. Yet today, we all eat shellfish, we all wear ankara and brocade in the same cloth and we all eat shellfish. Most girls are not virgins when they get married and their husbands do not return then to their fathers and stone them to death. Why then do we persist in
hurling these passages at gay people. These portions of the bible make it clear that the people that wrote it did so in line with their own cultural practices thousands of years ago. In this age and time, some of those passage will be seen as sexist and child abuse.

Now, we know that the Bible was not written in English. Infact the Bible as we know it was not compiled in its original language until hundreds of years after the death of Christ when the Church decided to put together a Holy Book based on religious writings. Of course by then there were so any writings. These writing were mostly stories handed down by word of mouth and passages by the early Christians to successive generations. By around 400 years after the death of Christ when the Vulgate bible was compiled, there were a lot of books written and it was up to a select committee of men to choose and decide which books will make it into what we now know as the Bible. Out of thousands of books, they choose the 66 books that we now know as the Bible. Or do you think that it was only Matthew, Mark, luke and John that told stories about Jesus and had it written into books? There were many other Gospels. There is the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Barnabas,Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Mary and the list goes on. Why werent these ones selected? The point I am trying to make is that the assembling of the Bible as we know it was done by human beings like you and me with their own guiding philosophies and interests and so it makes no sense when someone assumes a literalist stance and says that the Bible provides the answer to everything that is God's will.

Now we know that the bible is full of passages that make it clear that the place of a woman in society is akin to that of a man's property. She is to be seen and not to be heard. A man could marry plenty wives in the Bible and nothing was wrong with that- Moses was married to Sarah and still sired a child through her maid, Solomon had hundreds of wives. This was normal in their time, but in this age and time, we do not subscribe to those beliefs because we whether we like it or not, we agree that the bible is context specific and that those things that were acceptable in that culture do not apply now. Just look at the high rate of divorces everywhere and you will agree that we are not following the bible to the letter. Now it stands to reason that if women were invited to the table when the final 66 books of the Bible were being out together, that there will have been some protest against some books that expressly permit discrimination against women. For example, we have a place in the new testament that says that women should not speak in a place of worship and should instead sit and listen. Up till date, some churches still use that to ban the adoption of women into the clergy. But tell me, do you think that a woman who is spirit-filled is any less an instrument of God than a man? There are numerous instance where the Bible has been used to denigrate a particular group- whether women, slaves or homosexuals. But i bet that if people fro any of these groups were present during the final compilation of the Bible, that the parts of the Bible that harm them will not have made it into the final draft. My point- the Bible is a book inspired by God but written by man and put together by man to reflect his peculiar leaning. My point- Learn to look at things for yourself and question a bit- Because as someone said, it is only by questioning your faith that you van find a deeper faith.


We know from the translation of the Bible over two thousand years that it has been through many languages. The original languages in which it was first transcribed are mostly non-existent now. And we also know that the 'homosexuality' did not appear in the English bible until about 1949. Before then, most translations referred to some of the verses as male prostitution and co. It is no surprise that homosexuality as we know it today- a loving relationship between people of the same sex, was not written of in the bible because the Biblical writers did not have any concept of sexuality or same-gender loving relationships like we have today. How can the bible then condemn homosexuality when the word didnt make it way in there until about 2,000 years later. it is in the same way that we dont expect the Bible to give us answers to issues like Nuclear energy or assisted reproduction techniques or Information technology because in the biblical times, they had no concept of this.

To be sure, the bible condemned male prostitution- just as it did for female prostitution. And it is this word that many biblical scholars feel have been mutated over time to no become homosexuality in the bible. But then, how does male prostitution equate with a present-day same gender-loving relationship like we know it to be today where you have partners that are committed to themselves physically and emotionally just as heterosexuals are?

And to be sue too, Paul condemns people who have given up their 'natural' desires to pursue the same sex. The only thing is that for the homosexual, what is 'natural' is attraction to the same sex. Being with an opposite sex partner to the gay person is as unnatural as forcing a heterosexual to sleep with someone of the same sex. The level of revulsion is the same. The only difference is that society forces the homosexual to effectively 'rape' himself/herself, go against his nature and do it. It is not a surprise that Paul felt that people were giving up their natural desires. Afterall, the concept of sexuality as we know it today was not their in his time. And so I'm sure that he assumed that it was only the kind of desires he had that were the 'natural' ones. In that way, he is no different than you the reader or most heterosexuals who always wonder what the f*** is wrong with gay people? Why would they give up what you have and that which you assume is natural to most people- heterosexuality, to pursue homosexuality? The answer boils down to what I have said earlier- if you have not lived in a gay person's body and gone through what he has gone through- the hormones, the exclusive same-sex feelings, the utter absence of opposite-sex attraction throughout life, then who are you to tell him that his feelings are not 'natural'? It is just like telling a left-handed child that his 'bad' habit is not natural and that he should stop it. This a very telling analogy because almost all gay people who speak truthfully say that they have always known that they were different. Some know as early as 7-8 years in life. They might not have the word for it at that age and they certainly are not engaging in any sexual activity at that age, but they do know that the way they feel about people of their own sex is not quite 'normal'. So to base the condemnation of homosexuality on what St. Paul has said would be not to use our God-given intelligence to think for ourselves. if God created some people homosexual, then how can we say that their desires are unnatural?

Some people try to say that homosexuality is mostly environmental and that people who may have been abused sexually or had absent parental figures are the ones at risk. This is utter garbage. Did you become heterosexual because you were abused by an opposite sex uncle or aunt? Did the environment really have anything to do with your sexuality or did you just hit puberty and found it there? Afterall, almost every homosexual was raised in an home by a mother and a father and if environmental influences are the strongest, then the child should have learnt from his parent's example and also become heterosexual. Infact, I dont believe there is any gay family in Nigeria, why then do we still have homosexuals in our society? This brings me to the issue of the arguement against gay parenting. People say that if homosexuality and hay marriage and parenting becomes allowed, that children will be turned gay in those families. How so? Parents have no influence on the sexual orientation of their children and gay parents are not any more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents. Afterall, most of the gay parents were raised by straight parents and they still turned out gay! Go figure!

The most common Biblical portion used against homosexuality is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The popular assumption is that the city was destroyed solely because of homosexuality. This cannot be further away from the truth. God saw the iniquities of Sodom- their greed, lust, wickedness and all. Sodom was a very rich city but they had given themselves unto wickedness. Because of their wealth and wickedness, there were notoriously territorial and did not let people into their city lest they try to tap into the source of their wealth. God saw all this and wanted to destroy them but he instead decided to send his angels to see for themselves. Keep in mind that ab initio, God wanted to destroy them- which was why he told Abraham later in the Bible that if he had seen even just ten righteous men in all the city of Sodom, that he would have spared the city. Back to the story. So the angels were welcomed to Lots house but as soon as the men of the city heard that they had visitors in the city, they demanded that they be brought out to them. It was there in-hospitality and wickedness that made them demand that the angels be brought out to them so that they could 'know' them. This means to forcibly rape them. S we have a mob of maybe hundreds of men who men who want to gang rape three angels. Why? It wasn't because of homosexuality as we know it today - a loving relationship between two men. It was because of their inhospitality and their greed -to protect their city's wealth, that they would not let strangers into their city. It was because of this that they wanted to humiliate the strangers by forcibly gang raping them- to teach them a lesson so that they dare not come back. Afterall, what is more humiliating than gang-raping a man. It was sure to serve as a deterrent to future visitors who may want to come there for their wealth. Lot pleaded with them and even offered up his own daughters but they refused. They wanted the men(angels) in Lot's house. Now tell me, do you think that the gang of men were so sex-crazed that they just all wanted to 'make love' to these three men out of all the men and women in that city at the same time? Definitely not. They wanted to RAPE them. That was their sin. That was the sin of Sodom in that instance- Rape, Humiliation, Inhospitality. Added to this, is their wickedness and other sins that made God send down his angels to come and survey things for themselves first hand. These were all the sins of Sodom and that is why the city was destroyed. Not because of Homosexuality. or do you think that if instead of the gang of men requesting for the male angels, but requesting for females instead that the city would be spared? No. The city would still have been destroyed even if it was women that wanted to rape. So please, lets open our minds to the real truth why Sodom was destroyed and not equate it with homosexuality- which is simply two people who are attracted to each other, fall in love and just want happily ever after like every heterosexual wants.

I know that some of you have looked at the story of Sodom in this way before because you haven't taken the time to do your own studies and research. Or because you have always been told by your pastor and everyone around you that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for homosexuality. Well think again! People have always distorted their interpretation of the bible for their own selfish means. Afterall, the bible was used over the years to subjugate women and treat them like second class citizens. And yes they are biblical passages that support this treatment, but does that make it right? Is a woman any less than a man because of an accident of birth? And to believe that up till the 1920's that women did not have the right to vote in the US or in many other countries and couldn't own property. Even in Nigeria today, women cannot own property in some places if their husbands die. And believe me, the bible was used over the years to support this kind of treatment. It is no different for homosexuals. The Bible has been used by people to condemn them- people who dont understand their unique struggles. the Bible has always been used to condemn the minority and the weaker groups.

It was this same Bible that was used to justify slavery by the White man over more than 200 years. And yes there are passages which clearly support slavery. This continued until the 1960's in the US when the Black man got the right to vote. This continued until the 1990's in South Africa when Apartheid was abolished. The bible was used to support the inferiority of the Black race and that was why this all happened. The bible was also used to prevent Interracial marriages between blacks and whites in the US up till the 1970s because an inferior and a superior race are not supposed to mix. Dear Nairalander, so much iniquity has been committed against minority and oppressed groups in the name of the bible, yet today, we ignore those parts of the bible because event though they might applied in the old times, they dont apply in our time.

It is amazing how our Lord Jesus never said a word regarding homosexuality. All he preached all his life was love. Love your God and Love your neighbour. No condemnation. No judgements. Just do the right thing and be true to your conscience. And believe me, there is nothing more damning to the conscience of a homosexual as faking love and attraction to the opposite sex so that he can get married and escape societies expectations and all. It is damning to his soul because deep down, he knows that he is not only sinning against his conscience and God, he is also sinning against the innocent partner that has been brought into the marriage or relationship. The homosexual harbours his secret and it slowly eats him up. The quality of his relationship with his spouse can never be perfect because there is a secret there- the foundation of the relationship is built on lies. This makes it easier to tell more lies and keep more secrets in the marriage. In truth, closeted gay people (like most Nigerians) have not true friends. They are there own best friends and the keeper of the secrets. Afterall, how can you say you have a friend when you are not even able to talk with that friend about your true crush? Or share details about your true feelings? Friendships are formed by sharing and the closeted homosexual has learnt through life to shut himself off and just keep his struggles buried deep. The closet is a place of great sorrow- for the person . It is also a terrible thing because of the collateral damage that follows it.

My write-up has become too lengthy and if you are still reading up to this point, then you must be a strong 'pesin'. All I hope I have accomplished is to make you see things from a different lens - the lens of a christian who is questioning and seeking a deeper faith on this issue; the lens of a concerned person who may not be homosexual but can for a second put himself in those shoes. There will always be those 10% of people in every society that are gay - this has been so since the creation of man and it will continue to be so. The same way that there is homosexuality in a certain percentage of animals too. It is as natural as heterosexuality. Its just part of God's variety- the same way left-handed people are. The question is what do as a society do with and for them? Do we acknowledge them and make it easier for them to lead honest and productive lives or are we going to discriminate and make them go further in the closet and deny their true selves? - That is the question.

Thank you for reading and I hope you take out time to think things through for yourself and discover your own truth. Why? Because you dont know who amongst you is gay- It may be your closest brother; it may be that your female friend that is always kind to you; it may be your Father who even cheated on your mother once early in the marriage before you were born; it may be that 40-something year old handsome lawyer that you always see drive past in his Jeep and you wonder why he is still single; it may be your husband who is usually sexually and emotionally aloof and likes to spend time with his best buddy instead. Most importantly - it could be your child. He may still be be a baby now but he already has a sexuality and in 10 to 15 years, he will become aware of it. It could be anybody- 'e no dey show for face'. Gay people come in all shapes and sizes, fro the the most macho to the effeminate; from the most educated and responsible to the lowlife - there are no stereotypes. So please drop all your misconceptions and think of these people as human beings- deserving of your Christian love, understanding and acceptance; just the way they are.

God did not make homosexuals or sin but God did not make us or any physical thing perfect. He called it good and very good at creation but not perfect so you see, we cannot be physically perfect at all times.
Homosexuals are claiming they were born that way. It could be possible that a man was born with genes that make him appear and act feminine, but he's not. And God's rightful plan for him or her is to get married.

Homosexualism I believe is directly and more related to low self esteem than to nature

God never created the homosexuals
Man was created in the image and likeness of God

Gen 1:27. So God created man in His own image , in the image of God created He him; male and female created he them
God is not a homosexual so He cannot create one, it was borne out of their own lust


Romans 1:21-28
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

why did God make jesus?

"No preacher belongs in your bedroom, he belongs behind the pulpit saving your soul."

He made them to serve as firewood for Hell. How is God expected to efficiently fuel the flames of Hell?

seyibrown:

@BashiruB

Nice write up  . . . . but Homo$£xu4lity cannot be equated to left-handedness!

Well, people love to equate it with lifestyle choices. So under that assumption it is no different than being religious like Christians or Muslims. Except religions have a lot more to say about peoples lifestyles than homosexuality does.

Of course religious people do not seem to appreciate it when their own religious lifestyles are criminalized, even when they do extreme harm to others :cough: sharia :cough: childhood indoctrination :cough:polygamy :cough: witch children:cough: . . . whew excuse me.

Consider a case of a man who has been stealing ever since he was young. Even if he gets caught and gets punished, immediately after his release he justs proceeds with that his theft. now would it make sense if such a man were to boycott and defend himself saying that God made him a thief? that he cannot help but steal?  that would not make sense because God has commanded us in the Bible saying "Thou shall not steal". God cannot command us not to steal and go ahead and make someone a thief, that does not make sense. Likewise God does not make people homosexuals, why, because it is written that homosexuality is as sin
Leviticus 18:22
“‘Do not have intimate relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.