I woke up on April 1st and heard the disturbing news of Talle Mia Ruwa, the middle-aged man who was lynched by a mob in Bauchi state for alleged blasphemy.

Because of my "religionlessness", crime (whatever crime) perpetuated in the name of religion (whatever religion) gets to me. So, I thought the Talle news disturbed me more than it did anyone else. However, on relating with some persons, I saw that they were equally disturbed.

A christian friend went on a barrage on how the Muslims are so wicked as to kill a man simply for insulting their prophet. Then i reminded him of the discussion we had some time ago when he was justifying that story of elisha in the christian holy book where the man called upon 2 bears to kill 42 children because they mocked him. At the time, he had told me of how wrong it is to insult the anointed of God, and that the children got just judgement.
As i suspected he would, my friend went into another bout of justification. "They are two different stories" he told me. "In Elisha's case, he didn't do the killing himself, the bears did" he added

My answer to him was "Talle insulted a prophet and was killed for it, just as the 42 kids in the elisha story insulted a prophet and were killed for it"
Saying "elisha did not do the killing, the bears did" is like saying "the irate Bauchi mob did not do the killing, the fire did".

Then i added "you can only be a hypocrite if you justify one and condemn the other"

I understand that christians today (at least the majority) do not go about killing for their faith, but is it not hypocritical to still justify that elisha story and condemn a parallel case?

If you are among the many christians that condemn the killing of Talle, then you also should condemn the killing of those children (in that story in your holy book). If for any reason, you find some reasonable explanations or justifications for the killing of those children; then i see no reason why you should be disturbed that many muslims will find the killing of Talle justifiable.


As for me... what do i know. I am just a senseless atheist who thinks "religion makes people do crazy things and feel okay about doing them"

Atheism that has killed more people? Abegi, I do not have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Jashub:
Atheism that has killed more people? Abegi, I do not have enough faith to be an Atheist.

I definitely did not say you should become an atheist. I only asked if it is not hypocritical to justify an act when done in the name of your religion but call it crime when done in the name of another religion.

That is:
1. do not commit crime in the name of your religion
2. do not justify crime committed in the name of your religion
3. when condemning crime committed in the name of other religion, do not hypocritically fail to see the parallel in your religion

eomajeh:



I definitely did not say you should become an atheist. I only asked if it is not hypocritical to justify an act when done in the name of your religion but call it crime when done in the name of another religion.

That is:
1. do not commit crime in the name of your religion
2. do not justify crime committed in the name of your religion
3. when condemning crime committed in the name of other religion, do not hypocritically fail to see the parallel in your religion

I am a Christian, and I follow the dictates of Jesus from the Bible. So I ask you: did Jesus kill anyone? No. Did He support the killing of anyone? No. So all your blabbering is dancing on the thin line of advance stupidity

eomajeh:

That is:
1. do not commit crime in the name of your religion
2. do not justify crime committed in the name of your religion
3. when condemning crime committed in the name of other religion, do not hypocritically fail to see the parallel in your religion

A Certain Act either has a Reasonable and Just Excuse or it does not!

And the 2 cases are different!

In the case of the murdered Muslim, he insulted their Prophet and it is for the Prophet to Act on it! Being the Direct Party Affected!

Privies and relations have limited right of action. They Have No Locus Standi!

In the case of Elijah, he was the direct recipient and in he so acted on it.

Conpare
How often is it rightful to interfere in the cause of another in comparison to when a person spits on you or defames you?

Scarcely can a person be Just -Filled when he enters into the matter concerning another full adult for he has no Right to Act!

The Law is "It is only the parties themselves to an Action who can Complain and Raise A Court on it"!

So all your blabbering is dancing on the thin line of advance stupidity

Really

Why am i not surprised?

This is what virtually all theists do. they dodge issues that fingers their particular religion, and insults (attack) the person critiquing.

Will you commit crime in the name of your religion?
Will you justify a crime committed in the name of your religion?
Will you condemn crime committed in the name of your religion and fail to see the parallel in your religion?

If you condemn the killing of Talle, is it not hypocritical to still go about justifying (or explaining away) the story of elisha??
That is the question that remain unaswered by you.

eomajeh:
I woke up on April 1st and heard the disturbing news of Talle Mia Ruwa, the middle-aged man who was lynched by a mob in Bauchi state for alleged blasphemy.

Because of my "religionlessness", crime (whatever crime) perpetuated in the name of religion (whatever religion) gets to me. So, I thought the Talle news disturbed me more than it did anyone else. However, on relating with some persons, I saw that they were equally disturbed.

A christian friend went on a barrage on how the Muslims are so wicked as to kill a man simply for insulting their prophet. Then i reminded him of the discussion we had some time ago when he was justifying that story of elisha in the christian holy book where the man called upon 2 bears to kill 42 children because they mocked him. At the time, he had told me of how wrong it is to insult the anointed of God, and that the children got just judgement.
As i suspected he would, my friend went into another bout of justification. "They are two different stories" he told me. "In Elisha's case, he didn't do the killing himself, the bears did" he added

My answer to him was "Talle insulted a prophet and was killed for it, just as the 42 kids in the elisha story insulted a prophet and were killed for it"
Saying "elisha did not do the killing, the bears did" is like saying "the irate Bauchi mob did not do the killing, the fire did".

Then i added "you can only be a hypocrite if you justify one and condemn the other"

I understand that christians today (at least the majority) do not go about killing for their faith, but is it not hypocritical to still justify that elisha story and condemn a parallel case?

If you are among the many christians that condemn the killing of Talle, then you also should condemn the killing of those children (in that story in your holy book). If for any reason, you find some reasonable explanations or justifications for the killing of those children; then i see no reason why you should be disturbed that many muslims will find the killing of Talle justifiable.


As for me... what do i know. I am just a senseless atheist who thinks "religion makes people do crazy things and feel okay about doing them"

Tell me the truth, have you been Mocked, Ridiculed, Abusing, Insulted, Laughed at continuously by a group of say 3 or 4 children?

If you have, now imagine 42 of them Constantly and Wickedly Harassing and Abusing you?

Which I bet you have Never encountered, thus not having been in his place to Feel and Experience what he went through, you are not qualified to condemn him!

It is he who wears the shoes that know where it pinches!

He who has not worn the shoe cannot speak on it!

truespeak:


Tell me the truth, have you been Mocked, Ridiculed, Abusing, Insulted, Laughed at continuously by a group of say 3 or 4 children?

If you have, now imagine 42 of them Constantly and Wickedly Harassing and Abusing you?

Which I bet you have Never encountered, thus not having been in his place to Feel and Experience what he went through, you are not qualified to condemn him!

It is he who wears the shoes that know where it pinches!

He who has not worn the shoe cannot speak on it!

If i understand your questions, it will mean that if one is mocked, ridiculed, and laughed at, and wickedly harassed by a group of children, it is justifiable for he/she to kill them.

eomajeh:

Will you commit crime in the name of your religion?
Will you justify a crime committed in the name of your religion?
Will you condemn crime committed in the name of your religion and fail to see the parallel in your religion?

There would be No Crimes if People Always Obeyed The Law!

But is Already a well established fact that man is very very disobedient and wicked, even before the days of Christianity or Mohammedity!

eomajeh:

If you condemn the killing of Talle, is it not hypocritical to still go about justifying (or explaining away) the story of elisha??
That is the question that remain unaswered by you.

As I pointed out up, the 2 Cases are Separate and Distiguishable hence they do not have the same View. and I know you appreciate the difference, but you just wish to condemn Christ Followers.

It is not the Christian who condemns it, it is The Mighty Law which condemns it, the Christian just happened to voice it out!

Dtruthspeaker:


A Certain Act either has a Reasonable and Just Excuse or it does not!

And the 2 cases are different!

In the case of the murdered Muslim, he insulted their Prophet and it is for the Prophet to Act on it! Being the Direct Party Affected!

Privies and relations have limited right of action. They Have No Locus Standi!

In the case of Elijah, he was the direct recipient and in he so acted on it.

Conpare
How often is it rightful to interfere in the cause of another in comparison to when a person spits on you or defames you?

Scarcely can a person be Just -Filled when he enters into the matter concerning another full adult for he has no Right to Act!

The Law is "It is only the parties themselves to an Action who can Complain and Raise A Court on it"!

Privies and relations have limited right of action. They Have No Locus Standi!

Very correct. So killing someone who wrongs a prophet is wronged, but if the prophet kills the offender(s) himself/ herself, it is fine.
So a random prophet can kill someone tomorrow, and you won't flinch because he/ she is the direct party affected?

eomajeh:



If i understand your questions, it will mean that if one is mocked, ridiculed, and laughed at, and wickedly harassed by a group of children, it is justifiable for he/she to kill them.

If you understood All that I Said, You would know I say "You Cannot Judge nor Condemn a Man If You Have Not Walked In His Shoes"

Very Powerful and Truthful Quote!

You should try it on for size!

eomajeh:



If i understand your questions, it will mean that if one is mocked, ridiculed, and laughed at, and wickedly harassed by a group of children, it is justifiable for he/she to kill them.

That's the same thing Stalin and Mao did and they are Atheist. So why are you not condemning them?

eomajeh:

If i understand your questions, it will mean that if one is mocked, ridiculed, and laughed at, and wickedly harassed by a group of children, it is justifiable for he/she to kill them.

You think it is for Nought that God came to the earth and we sing "He walked where I walked, He Stood where I stand" by Don Moen.

Oya Lie that little children have never abused you AND YOU DID NOT CURSE THEM? Oya Lie!

Even a single child who abused and insulted you, YOU SURELY CURSED HIM IN YOUR HEART, even if you did not voice it out!

Why did you Curse him?

Is it not because your curses have no effect generally, that is the reason why you think that Elijah is different from you

Oh, because he is a Prophet he should feel no pain? Did you not see that he tried to ignore them but the Stupid children would not let him have his Peace?

Be Reasonable please!

Jashub:
That's the same thing Stalin and Mao did and they are Atheist. So why are you not condemning them?

I will not justify crime of any sort because the perpetrators express my belief or unbelief.
A crime is a crime no matter who does it.

I will not justify the crimes that Stalin or whoever commits simply because they are atheists. In fact, that is the reason for the initial question. because i see that most persons rush to condemn an act when done by another religion, but will quickly justify a parallel act when done in their religion. My question again is, is that not hypocritical?

Dtruthspeaker:


You think it is for Nought that God came to the earth and we sing "He walked where I walked, He Stood where I stand" by Don Moen.

Oya Lie that little children have never abused you AND YOU DID NOT CURSE THEM? Oya Lie!

Even a single child who abused and insulted you, YOU SURELY CURSED HIM IN YOUR HEART, even if you did not voice it out!

Why did you Curse him?

Is it not because your curses have no effect generally, that is the reason why you think that Elijah is different from you

Oh, because he is a Prophet he should feel no pain? Did you not see that he tried to ignore them but the Stupid children would not let him have his Peace?

Be Reasonable please!

so he killed them!!!!!!!!!

do you know the pain in the heart of those Bauchi mob when Talle insulted their prophet?? So they killed him.


If i teach that when someone insults you, and you are very pained by it, you should kill them, what will you think of me


Will you justify my stand by: the children are unruly, i was very pained by their curses, etc??

eomajeh:


I will not justify crime of any sort because the perpetrators express my belief or unbelief.
A crime is a crime no matter who does it.

I will not justify the crimes that Stalin or whoever commits simply because they are atheists. In fact, that is the reason for the initial question. because i see that most persons rush to condemn an act when done by another religion, but will quickly justify a parallel act when done in their religion. My question again is, is that not hypocritical?

How is it hypocritical? Elisha was never a christian ; he was a Jew. So how does he relate to christian murders?

Jashub:
How is it hypocritical? Elisha was never a christian ; he was a Jew. So how does he relate to christian murders?

Christians have the elijah story in their holy book, and they go to great lengths to defend the killing of those children. I have seen about 5 different christian explanations to justify the killing of the children whose act of wickedness and deserving death is insulting a prophet.
Yet i see christians rushing to condemn the Bauchi youths for killing a man whose act of wickedness and deserving death is insulting a prophet.

The parallel is killing for insulting a prophet. If you can justify the first, is it not hypocritical to condemn the other

eomajeh:


Christians have the elijah story in their holy book, and they go to great lengths to defend the killing of those children. I have seen about 5 different christian explanations to justify the killing of the children whose act of wickedness and deserving death is insulting a prophet.
Yet i see christians rushing to condemn the Bauchi youths for killing a man whose act of wickedness and deserving death is insulting a prophet.

The parallel is killing for insulting a prophet. If you can justify the first, is it not hypocritical to condemn the other

You have not answered the question : is Elisha a Christian? And you made a mistake : Elijah did not kill children ; it was Elisha. Now answer the question.

And secondly, Muslims kill people on daily basis. And they justify this with verses from their Quran. But I am yet to see a Christian justify killing from the verses of the Bible. So your bickering is illogical

eomajeh:

...So killing someone who wrongs a prophet is wronged, but if the prophet kills the offender(s) himself/ herself, it is fine.

The Prophet in Pain Cursed, as every man does And Did Nothing else, as every man does.

Therefore as a man, he has the same Fence as every man whose Cursing may or may not happen

eomajeh:

So a random prophet can kill someone tomorrow, and you won't flinch because he/ she is the direct party affected?

Now you learn another thing, Cursing is A type of Killing, And Every man is Guilty of doing it.

Thus, All men are Guilty of killing in the Eye of The Law! (Remember the lesson on the Proof of Guilt of Adultery and Lust as Shown by Mr Law, Jesus Christ?)

So therefore, All men are Scrambling for the The-Fences which may or may not be available for them.

Therefore when a man, prophet or not does a killing, the only thing I look for is, Does he Truly have a Fence to hide in or can I even immediately say he is Fully-Guilty with no good Excuse?"

Jashub:
You have not answered the question : is Elisha a Christian? And you made a mistake : Elijah did not kill children ; it was Elisha. Now answer the question.

And secondly, Muslims kill people on daily basis. And they justify this with verses from their Quran. But I am yet to see a Christian justify killing from the verses of the Bible. So your bickering is illogical

Whether eli-whatever is a jew, christian, hindu, muslim, etc is not the bone of contention.

It is not deniable that christians rush to justify the eli-whatever story simply he is seen as a true prophet in their holy book. You can see that in this thread already, with some commentators saying: "it hurts to be mocked, insulted, etc" or that "u should not judge another if u are not in their shoes", etc

My initial post has this: "I understand that christians today (at least the majority) do not go about killing for their faith, but is it not hypocritical to still justify that elisha story and condemn a parallel case?"
So as you said christians may not justify killing from the verses of the Bible.
The question is whether it is not hypocritical to still justify that eli-whatever story and condemn a parallel case (as is the case of Talle)

eomajeh:



Whether eli-whatever is a jew, christian, hindu, muslim, etc is not the bone of contention.

It is not deniable that christians rush to justify the eli-whatever story simply he is seen as a true prophet in their holy book. You can see that in this thread already, with some commentators saying: "it hurts to be mocked, insulted, etc" or that "u should not judge another if u are not in their shoes", etc

My initial post has this: "I understand that christians today (at least the majority) do not go about killing for their faith, but is it not hypocritical to still justify that elisha story and condemn a parallel case?"
So as you said christians may not justify killing from the verses of the Bible.
The question is whether it is not hypocritical to still justify that eli-whatever story and condemn a parallel case (as is the case of Talle)

Who is justifying Elisha? And secondly, islam justifies itself by killing on a daily basis. And Christians and every other person out there, have a right to condemn it. Why? Because it is senseless and goes against the laws of conscience. But I know this some you cannot grasp because you have no sense of moral objectivity being an atheist.


Just because you have a bone of contention with God does make Him any less concerned of how justice should be administered.

Jashub:
Who is justifying Elisha? And secondly, islam justifies itself by killing on a daily basis. And Christians and every other person out there, have a right to condemn it. Why? Because it is senseless and goes against the laws of conscience. But I know this some you cannot grasp because you have no sense of moral objectivity being an atheist.


Just because you have a bone of contention with God does make Him any less concerned of how justice should be administered.

People are quick to say atheist have no sense of moral objectivity

And i have no bone of contention with god. My bone of contention is people that do unthinkable things in the name of religion or people that explain away atrocities in the name of religion.

As you said every right thinking person should condemn anything that goes against the laws of conscience. The problem is that most person's conscience are built by religious dictates. Thus, someone can commit atrocities conscientiously and feel justified because of his/ her belief or unbelief system.

Moral objectivity is actually what i call for.
Don't justify the killing of Talle simply because u are a muslim
Don't justify the killing of those children (in that elisha story) simply because u are a christian (or it is in your christian holy book)
Don't justify the killing of anyone simply because u are an an atheist and feels u are not accountable to a sky personage

Be morally objective....

If an act causes you to flinch when done by others, don't justify a parallel act when it is done in your circle of belief/ unbelief

eomajeh:

...do you know the pain in the heart of those Bauchi mob when Talle insulted their prophet?? So they killed him.

As I said They are not Parties to the Case for the He insulted Prophet, NOT THEM!

Therefore it is Prophet who should have responded, as Elijah did, NOT THEM!

So it is Not the same.

eomajeh:

If i teach that when someone insults you, and you are very pained by it, you should kill them, what will you think of me

You do not need to even teach it, we naturally do it.

Someone takes or steals your textbook, we say "Thunder Fire you or Ogun Ki you or make the person wey take my book from locker e family must die for accident, e papa, e mama, generation unborn make all of dem die"

This is what all men do

eomajeh:

Will you justify my stand by: the children are unruly, i was very pained by their curses, etc??

If all you did was Curse the children with no more, No Court of man can ever Convict you for it is The Law on earth that "Cursing and Curses have no power"!

eomajeh:


Be morally objective....

If an act causes you to flinch when done by others, don't justify a parallel act when it is done in your circle of belief/ unbelief

Being "Morally Objective"

Do you and would you stand accused with your brother when he is arrested and charged with Stealing or would you accept AS YOUR OWN the rape commited by your father? (I see you intend saying the Truth)

Epitome of foolishness!!


Was it Elisha that killed the children by himself?

What a foolish comparison.

The Muslim mobs should have called on their dead Mohammed to send dogs to kill their blasphemer.