Same thing here, the more I get into my studies, the more I question. Esp the knowledge of evolution and human species.

Well, God did punish Adam/Eve from taking a bite from the tree of knowledge. I wonder why.

Church is Overrated and a waste of time,I haven't set foot in a church for the past 3yrs and I intend to stay like that.

@ Ileke,

God Punished Adam and Eve because they blamed Him for their mistakes!
(can you beat that?)

Theory of Evolution says it all happened by mistake!
Keep throwing sugar, flour, milk, eggs, icing sugar and baking powder into the
Pacific for 100 Million Years non-stop.

What are the odds that you'll suddenly turn up with a Birthday Cake?

@ Kaki P,

If Church has disappointed you, try Jesus instead!
I'm afraid even He is not so popular in some Churches these days!

Wizardofoz:


.    .    .    not S[b]h[/b]ahkulah?

LOL, comot dia, ara Os[b]c[/b]un Os[b]c[/b]ogbo

paris10:


Just of recent Creflo Dollar was interviewed about a comment he made regarding tithe. Creflo said he would love to see those non-tithe payers get shot !

I had to go look for it 
[flash=400,370]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM3BWAmlXis[/flash]


Na Irunmole go save una from all these Oluso Aguntan's (Pasitors) 

Ileke-IdI:

Same thing here, the more I get into my studies, the more I question. Esp the knowledge of evolution and human species.

Well, God did punish Adam/Eve from taking a bite from the tree of knowledge. I wonder why.

So what part of the theory of evolution openled your mind?

@ Poster - I get where you are coming from. I stopped attending church from 2006 - 2009, started again in 2010 and stopped April this year.

Reason? Well a mix bag of feelings and what not, some have been touched upon by other posts in one way or the other. I'm quite blessed to have lived in various places and this has enabled me to attend different churches along the way.  

Before I go on, I would like to mention couple of things;

- I'm a very liberal person
- I believe there is a fine line between spirituality and Christianity
- I believe life is Black, White and a whole lot of shades in between
- I believe there is one God, regardless of what you call yourself may it be Muslim, Christian or what not.

Taking the above into account plus other experiences I've had and so on, my thoughts and opinions are shaped like these -

I believe churches expand needlessly and try to put the financial responsibilities to the members in one guise or the other, sow for 24hr miracle and such. I know of two redeem churches within 10 minutes walk from each other, both struggling to pay their mortgages. Why not combine and have the 1 church, pay the mortgage on that building before expanding?

I have serious issues with churches in Nigeria and their Pastors/Heads/G.Os travelling abroad in the name of spreading the Gospel. They make it sound like their work in Nigeria is done and time to move out. I feel that tithes and offerings are not made use of properly. Agreed, the tithes and offerings are used for the usual, to take care of the Pastors, bills, church buildings and assets. After that, I believe the church should look after the needy in its congregation and its immediate community. If your church members get together to buy you a private jet for the "expansion of Gods work", as a pastor I would expect to turn down such a gift and ask the funds to be contributed to something that could be enjoyed by many and not just a select few!

I believe churches should be more practical in their ways and same goes for Christians. Christians talk a lot of talk and Bible thumping but not many back it up. A pastor in one church i went said something along the lines that If I have to tell people that I'm a Christian, then I do not act like one. People should be able to tell from my manner and way of life. Not because I said so or they see me go to church every sunday and weekday.. I am thinking along the lines of the same science behind celebrities and product placements. Get where I'm coming from? Christians and Churches do need to bang on about the Bible every time, preach through actions, engage the community around you, spread love, compassion and tolerance. Let them see the benefits of having a healthy spiritual life so that they can ask "How can I serve your God?"

In regard to teachings in Churches, I find that if something is good or cannot be explained it is "Gods will" and if it's bad it's the "work of the Devil and his agents". If you don't succeed, it is the forces of evil at work. Is it unthinkable that one persons "misfortune" (cuz we see it as one) is meant to be another persons "fortune" as willed by God?  We cannot all be millionaires, have our own business, mansions etc. For you to succeed someone else has to fail. Does this mean that God does not favour the person that "failed"? Guess it was not "Gods time" for that person. Teachings should not be just on financial prosperity or about evil forces out to get you. If we as Christians live right, carry out our duties as Sons/Daughters/Parents/Members of community, then surely our God who neither sleeps nor slumbers will look out for us!

IMO, I would say do not let churches and teachings discourage your pursuit for a well balanced spiritual life. The Bible is open to many interpretations. If the same people can  disagree on the events of a 90min football match watched live, I'm not surprised we'll disagree on how best to interpret the Bible. At the end of the day, "even a non functioning clock is right twice a day". The best one can do is to search for a church where the teachings and beliefs are inspiring and so on.

Currently, I still pray and in the absence of a church I pay my tithe to a charity (orphans). I feel a lot better knowing that money will be used for the benefit of the needy in my community, "Only God can judge me"  

Pastors lay emphasis on the payment of tithes because of their preference for the Jewish mode of worship to the Christian mode advocated by Apostle Peter and Paul for free will donation to the work of God. if you live under the grace of Christ, then you will not be bothered by issues like tithing as it is a requirement of the Mosaic law. if you chose to live under the law, then you must tithe or else you will suffer the curse in Malachi. Its your choice as Christ has not put you under the bondage of any pastor. if you are a true believer, you will know the truth and will live in total freedom like me.

Besides, tithing does not mean you will be rich. take Nigeria as a case study, Nigeria has the highest number of churches and self-professing tithe paying Christians compared to Europe, but it is a poor country going by its per capital income.

That then gives a lie to the pastors' arguments that tithing bring increase. I will advice you to read the whole of Deuteronomy and Malichi, then read the book of Act to peters.

I have never paid tithes in my life, but i do make my own donation to the Church out of my free will. Funny  enough, I have always being the person who loan money to my tithe paying friends;

I live under the grace of Christ which I believe money cannot buy. Try it and life will become more interesting and simple

abeg make nobody blame this Guy, religion don tire me, pastors dey one side dey milk gullible faithfuls, boko haram dey 4 north, dey use Islam they kill people, i wish every one would do what is right, God exists, in your neighbor, show love.

Bros !! , You are knowing the wrong things, don't let yourself be carried away with sentiments.
If you feel like not attending, make sure it is for a nobler reason, yet find something to believe in ( Have Faith In Something). You will live longer and better.

just change your church. finding the right church (with a good pastor) is very difficult but once you find one, you'll be fine.
and you can try devotional books, home fellowships, online resources. you shouldn't always rely on sunday services.

All i know is that everyone will account on judgement day.Judgement off course starts from here on earth.So lets watch out and see the end of each Pastors and their ministries.Its not so far away.I can sense it.Watch out!

The problem is, we have the consciousness that something ain't right somewhere, but we lack boldness and audacity to dare mention it. We were under a kinda spell and shadow. Church obedience and service had consumed us.

Seconded!!!

I was not at peace with myself at church yesterday, the pastor kept talking about how he prayed for people (having collected a "sacrificial battle seed" and they got their miracle, along with many other controversial things. In the end, the head pastor announced that we should all vote for a church member who is contesting for "MBGN". This to me, is soooo wrong. My aim of going to church is to worship God and be admonished under the presence of God. What is happening to the church?

Am in full support of coming out to challenge these issues with our "Pastors" before it goes out of hand. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church!

@Omo-Tier1
You kinda sound pathetic. I have no doubt whatsoever that You are among the brainwashed peeps who feel their Pastors is all knowing and every member must be a worker and must pay tithes and give offerings which are recorded againts their name or else 'Daddy G O' will not recognize them as  members of his church.

Let me say here that the onus of most Nigerian Churches is no longer about salvation and making heaven, but about prosperity and living the lyf or lie or large (Whatever). The Pastors or Gospel peddlers don't even preach, they just psyche you up on reasons why should bring and bring into the church alone. At a tym in Nigeria, Pastors were mo lyk wordsmiths, playing on semantics to confuse and convince innocent peeps to make them gullible enuf to submit their hard-earned cash to them (Pastors). Now, they have gone beyond that, telling you to go to hell, if you feel it is not ryt for you to bring all your hard-earned money to them for full blessings. Some even go the extra myl by employing peeps lyk Joagbaje & co to do their biddings in Cyberspace. Make una no suprise, if them begin dey psyche us to begin contribute gigabytes of cyperspace to them as part of our tithes and offerings.

I am mandated to make a comment on this post. I love your honesty as there is definitely no point being among the massive population who think its best they just be silent and make everyone else feel there is no problem 'all is well'. ! Well life has  dimensions and knowing that will give you the opportunity to work on the dimensions where you are lagging. Church has been mandated to be a place of perfecting of the saints, so there are usually no perfect pple there. Also it can never be overemphasized, I mean the prosperity that we hear in church was necessitated from the poor wretched "holy christian" that them world got accustomed to some times past, I did not know where that came from but it definitely did not come from scriptures. However it has become an apology the manner in we hear prosperity being preached from the pulpit nowdays. Prosperity is a package, it will never be one sided, not today not tomorrow not in the future. There are dimensions to prosperity and we must know that the spiritual dimension is important as well as the physical. Pastors and shepherds should know that knowing the spiritual dimensions of prosperity without teaching the physical dimensions is like handing out bullets to soldiers, its utterly useless. The other way round is like handing guns to soldiers without bullets, you can be sure they will do better than the guys with only bullets as the gun alone can do some damage. Now it pertinent we know that knowing all you need to do to succeed will not guarantee your success. Thats the basic reason we see people putting equal effort and bringing out different results. There is a perspective we will never gain access to understanding the details, thats the spiritual dimension. But trust me, its utterly irrelevant if you dont do your homework in the physical. "All is well"

Look I could honestly say I have stopped or should i say I hardly attend church and I have grown closer than ever to God than i have before, I have grown in wisdom, I read the Word more, I know how to use the scripture in all circumstances. with So many channels available to me and the Internet hey,  I watch Lakewood's Joel Osteen online "LIVE" from Houston Texas and he preaches about having peace with yourself and changing your thinking, seeing God in everything around, and my life changed.  And because of that I went online and downloaded all his sermons over 300 (30 mins) teachings, and one by one I listened each one of them and when you listen to when he talked about the NBA legend Congolese Basketball player (Dikembe Matumbo) how he prayed bold prayers to help the sick in his home town at the age of 15 years and God took him from Congo to George town and he became a basket ball star and 4 years ago he built a hospital,  at no point during the story the word Tithe or Offering at gun poin was mentioned,  Yes when you give, God would give back, but you have to be a cheerful giver, when you feed the poor its like you honour God!

Theirs a day Creflo Dollar and I cant remember the passage which explained that you sow your seed with the word from your mouth!!!!!  that was the day I took control of my life, I prayed to God in MY HOUSE and my debt was cancelled, that even gave me more belief or faith that i have the authority to speak to my mountains and they would move.

Sometime ago I listen online to one of Joel Osteens teaching and he said when you remind God his promises, that is you pray Gods words back to God, God would surely respond to you,   so i went on line and searched for "Praying the Scriptures or Praying Gods promises Is the most powerful prayer ever, then you wonder why don’t they tell you this in your local church?

Tony Koontz I have seen him so many times and its all about a $1000 seed for a certain type of blessing which brings me to the question if i dont have the $1000, does that mean am not entitle to the blessing ?

This is why I prefer the orthodox churches - The Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists e.t.c

At least they still know what Christianity and 'beliefs' are all about. Take away the human differences, the individual peculiarities and personal convictions, the Catholic church still believes in its norms and abide by it. It is not a money-making organization!

That's why I still go to church . . . . cos I'm catholic!

I have taken the pain to read through this thread. I think we expect too much from the church. We all believe a church should be perfect and faultless but I have read through the Bible and realised at no time was the church without faults. We saw a Judas among Jesus disciples. We had the greedy Sapphira and her husband among the first church. Over and over again, we see the church failing and letting people down. But God has not given up on the church. He is cleansing it and making it better.

If we expect a perfect church, we'd be disappointed and frustrated and become cynical, even critical. We should all just live as truly as we believe we should. We should do our bits and speak up against injustices and oppression among God's people. But we must be corrective and lovely about it, lest we become arrogant and judgmental.

We should learn to know God on our own and read up the scriptures so that we don't fall prey to false teachers and prophets. We should not overrate a man of God simply because he is anointed. At his best, he is still a man and we should expect he can be wrong on issues at times. If we do all of these and many more others can espouse, I think we would be fine. But we must never leave the church or forsake the community of God's people. The Bible clearly urges us not to. If we do, we are on our way down.

I leave others to our good consciences and judgment.

It does make me wonder that most times its the men that figure out the antics going in most churches. There is a period in my church just before the budget is read and thanksgiving when all you hear is tithe, tithe and tithe which is most unfortunate so during that period he goes to the alternate church. A lot of real Christians are getting disenchanted with the poverty mentality that is pervasive in many churches today and who was that chap that said the congregation does not enrich the pastor - big lie.

Ujujoan:

This is why I prefer the orthodox churches - The Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists e.t.c

At least they still know what Christianity and 'beliefs' are all about. Take away the human differences, the individual peculiarities and personal convictions, the Catholic church still believes in its norms and abide by it. It is not a money-making organization!

That's why I still go to church . . . . cos I'm catholic!

And the priests still r-aape young boys

I believe in human capabilities, not divine intervention

emmatok:

This issue or Tithe and offering has been over flogged on NAIRALAND.

[b]People who give, do it willingly .[/b]

Exactly, no one is forced at gun-point to part with 10% of their earnings; the same way no one is forced to pay N2000 for a d'bang's (or what is his name now) show. People give offering or tithe because they believe in the principle that "Give and it shall be given unto you, Luke 6:38".

Quote from: emmatok on Today at 11:03:20 AM

This issue or Tithe and offering has been over flogged on NAIRALAND.

People who give, do it willingly .

I will agree with you when pastors begin to quote 2 Corinthians 9:7 instead of Malachi 3: 8 - 9
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

nice thread!

Jesus said that even the very elect wud hv been deceived if  THE FATHER didnt shorten the time!

a lot of fasle teachers  and  teachings  in the churches of today

MrBible:

Quote from: emmatok on Today at 11:03:20 AM
I will agree with you when pastors begin to quote 2 Corinthians 9:7 instead of Malachi 3: 8 - 9
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

I have been paying my tithes, offerings and vow for many years now.

Nobody forced  me to do it, cos i do it willingly and i have no regrets  about that.

emmatok

I have been pay my tithes, offerings and vow for many years now.

Nobody forced  me to do it, cos i do it willingly and i have no regrets  about that.

You don't know the meaning of tithes. In all the pentecostal churches I've been to they have never told the worshippers to give willing, instead they are told they are robbing God if they don't pay tithes, so how is tithes free giving

emmatok:

I have been pay my tithes, offerings and vow for many years now.

Nobody forced me to do it, cos i do it willingly and i have no regrets about that.

That's nice to hear sir, keep it up

MrBible:

Churches collecting tithes are all thieves as the pastors are not Jews, the workers are not Levites and the tithes are not farm produce.

Let the people who are giving the money complain now! Abi which one be your own now? is it your money?

People are entitled to their opinion so Tee-jay just say yours and relax