Mujtahida:
>
Your are just moralizing. In law nobody can be held liable for the debt of another. That position of law is settled. That is the summary of what I said. So your picking on 'criminal charges' does not invalidate my point based on your analogy and the Bible story. Even the Bible sef in Ezekiel said everyman will die for his own sin.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

So forget all this twisting and turning. Even if the Bible says I inherit Adam's debt, na them sabi. A father's debt is his debt. Shikena. Nothing like shame because you cannot use shame to argue in court. It has no effect whatsoever.

Like human law didn't descend from morality.

I'm only surprised at your aggression. But it's okay sha

Odunayaw:
Like human law didn't descend from morality.

I'm only surprised at your aggression. But it's okay sha

Ohh pardon me, I do indeed sound aggressive

That's the adamic nature in me I guess (na joke oo)

Odunayaw:
Nawa, see how you presumed! Look bro, I didn't cajole or force you here. I made an offer to discuss and you obliged.
If you're going to start sounding like I'm irritating you abeg make I close the thread. Haba

I was actually in court when I responded to you. Apologies for the abrasiveness of my tone.
In any case, I think we have reached the end of this discussion. We will only keep going round in circles. Cheers

Mujtahida:

Ohh pardon me, I do indeed sound aggressive

That's the adamic nature in me I guess (na joke oo)

you this man en

Mujtahida:

I was actually in court when I responded to you. Apologies for the abrasiveness of my tone.
In any case, I think we have reached the end of this discussion. We will only keep going round in circles. Cheers

True. But it was good talk.

Odunayaw:
True. But it was good talk.

Sure. Peace

Cc: dierich

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@ do4luv14

Amazing how much gatekeeping has to be done just to justify what is obviously unjustifiable.

Mujtahida:
>
Your are just moralizing. In law nobody can be held liable for the debt of another.

Wrong!

Then you have not heard of Vicarious Liability or Liability Voluntarily Acquired , Wilfull Acceptance of Liability etc.

Mujtahida:
>
Your are just moralizing. In law nobody can be held liable for the debt of another.

Wrong!

Then you have not heard of Vicarious Liability or Liability Voluntarily Acquired , Wilfull Acceptance of Liability etc.

Mujtahida:
>
Even if the Bible says I inherit Adam's debt, na them sabi.

Clearly, the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, hence you inherit his ability to sin.

Mujtahida:

A father's debt is his debt. Shikena.

Then you do not get have any of his goods eg property, money in bank etc. But he who takes your father's benefits must always take his debts.

Mujtahida:

I was actually in court when I responded to you. Apologies for the abrasiveness of my tone.
In any case, I think we have reached the end of this discussion. We will only keep going round in circles. Cheers

Which in court?

In court as in lawyer or in court as in witness/visitor or in court as in party to a dispute?

LordReed:
Amazing how much gatekeeping has to be done just to justify what is obviously unjustifiable.

Amazing how invaders complain about gatekeeping when their unlawful attacks are met with resistance.

Chai, Satan na big bastard!

Dtruthspeaker:


Wrong!

Then you have not heard of Vicarious Liability or Liability Voluntarily Acquired , Wilfull Acceptance of Liability etc.



Clearly, the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, hence you inherit his ability to sin.



Then you do not get have any of his goods eg property, money in bank etc. But he who takes your father's benefits must always take his debts.

Vicarious liability for a DEBT? Are you a lawyer? I'm asking this not condescendingly but just so I know who I'm engaging.

please let's remove this discussion from the domain of religion and talk law. Show me using legal authorities where the principle of vicarious liability which is a principle in the law of tort has been applied to debts. And just so you know we are talking debt as debt with no qualifying elements.
For example Mr A borrows 50M from Mr B and has refused or neglected to pay back. That's what we are looking at.

All the other categories - voluntary acceptance of liability or willful acceptance of liability - do not apply to the analogy because what I am talking about here is that I am not liable for my father's sin and so nobody can voluntarily accept to pay back a debt that I myself did not inherit and the reason is that my father's debt is my father's. So how can you voluntarily accept to pay it for me in the first instance when the debt is my father's and not mine because in law debts are not inherited. It can be passed on to the estate of the debtor but note that the estate of a man is not any of his children personally such that because a man is indebted you can now go and take from his child's pocket to satisfy the debt THROUGH THE PROCESS OF LAW

So first deal with how my father's debt becomes my own debt. That is the crux here. Show me decided authorities where a man was indebted and his son was ordered by the courts to pay his father's debt.

Mujtahida:

Vicarious liability for a DEBT? Are you a lawyer? I'm asking this not condescendingly but just so I know who I'm engaging.

Offence not taken and very joy filled to be engaged.

When a person is liable, he is IN DEBTED or Debited or a Debt is placed on him.

Damages and compensations are all DEBTS placed on a person liable.

Mujtahida:

please let's remove this discussion from the domain of religion and talk law.

I'll be happy to show you The Law at work and in work in.

Mujtahida:

...I am talking about here is that I am not liable for my father's sin and so nobody can voluntarily accept to pay back a debt that I myself did not inherit.

Which is why I answered that
"the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, Hence You Inherit His Ability To Sin..

So the debt of sin is your own debt because it is your own son.

And being your own debt, any person can step up on your behalf to pay same of course you reserve the Right to Refuse Help.

Haven identified and narrowed the issue, all previous commentd are now Obiter.

Dtruthspeaker:


Offence not taken and very joy filled to be engaged.

When a person is liable, he is IN DEBTED or Debited or a Debt is placed on him.

Damages and compensations are all DEBTS placed on a person liable.



I'll be happy to show you The Law at work and in work in.



Which is why I answered that
"the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, Hence You Inherit His Ability To Sin..

So the debt of sin is your own debt because it is your own son.

And being your own debt, any person can step up on your behalf to pay same of course you reserve the Right to Refuse Help.

Haven identified and narrowed the issue, all previous commentd are now Obiter.

Show me with decided authorities how vicarious liability applies to the issue of personal debt.

Mujtahida:

When you leave Christianity, it is common for Christians to tell you that you were never in the faith. It's their default response. Religious people find it hard to accept that people can find peace outside their faith. I just laugh.

Those Christians are technically right for saying that to you this since it is impossible to have truly belonged to God only to then turn your back on Him, this as taught in scripture. So don't take it personally since it is a core aspect of the belief itself.

Those who truly belong essentially becomes puppets in the hands of the one who is the puppet master and are hence will never be lost to Him.

bazooka1:
1. Do you find any gaps or flaws in the Bible?

2. Do you think the Bible is 100% factual and accurate?

3. What's your opinion about the catholic Bible having more books than the protestant Bible?

4. Your reply will give me a clear picture of your understanding about your religion doctrine and of course my further engagement hinge on this.

1. The Bible is a compendium of books, all of them written by humans, so definitely there are flaws and gaps to be found in many of what is expressed in the books.

2. Ofcourse not!

3. Scripture exists beyond the confines of what is your Bible and your Catholic Bible.

4. Go for it!

bazooka1:

It's mind boggling the arrogance amid ignorance exhibited by these Christians. I once asked a pastor what Peter was talking about in 2 Cor 12:2. Where he said he met a man in 3rd heaven. I asked him how many heavens there was if there was a 3rd Heaven as described by Peter. The man looked lost till date he no dey near me again.

Well, only Paul, the supposed author of that there letter can explain what he meant there by a third heaven.

Mujtahida:

Show me with decided authorities how vicarious liability applies to the issue of personal debt.

So it is settled that "the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, Hence You Inherit His Ability To Sin. which was what I intended addressing.

So I move on to liability for debt caused and owed by another. (Vicarious Liability.

On the authority of Ordinary Natural Living it is seen how people have taken up debts which was not their own cause eg Paying School fees, Rents, (you would even see this one here in Nairaland) damages of property eg cars, (Car talk section attests to this).

Even building houses for people they do not know like what some couple of people in the east did for one elderly woman and co last year

Maintenance given to girlfriends, girlfriends friend, girlfriends family etc.

So without going too far, even right before your eyes, you have seen people being Vicariously liable for matters which they have no business carrying or taking up, yet they of their own will, did verily take them up as their own debts.

Here are examples of a person taking up the debt of another

https://www.nairaland.com/3871390/paid-debt-today-after-20#57673366

Dtruthspeaker:


So it is settled that "the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did, Hence You Inherit His Ability To Sin. which was what I intended addressing.

So I move on to liability for debt caused and owed by another. (Vicarious Liability.

On the authority of Ordinary Natural Living it is seen how people have taken up debts which was not their own cause eg Paying School fees, Rents, (you would even see this one here in Nairaland) damages of property eg cars, (Car talk section attests to this).

Even building houses for people they do not know like what some couple of people in the east did for one elderly woman and co last year

Maintenance given to girlfriends, girlfriends friend, girlfriends family etc.

So without going too far, even right before your eyes, you have seen people being Vicariously liable for matters which they have no business carrying or taking up, yet they of their own will, did verily take them up as their own debts.

Here are examples of a person taking up the debt of another

https://www.nairaland.com/3871390/paid-debt-today-after-20#57673366

Since you couldn't cite any decided case it is obvious that I've wasted my time engaging you. No more

Mujtahida:

Since you couldn't cite any decided case it is obvious that I've wasted my time engaging you. No more

it would have been a honour to you to have submitted than for me to have to tell you that" you say this because it very obvious that you can not rebut nor challenge Truth". AFTER CITING REAL LIVING DECIDED CASES

Bet you never heard this principle of Law
"There is No Valid Argument Against Truth"

Therefore, it is impossible for you to validly oppose, as you already knew.

Most especially as your major grievance on Adams debt has been explained that "the Bible meant that you sin, just as your father did. Hence You Inherit His Ability To Sin". So you really did not have any valid thing to say after that.