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The Invention Of God By Man - Religion - Nairaland

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The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 12:16pm On Jul 20, 2011
The invention of God by MAN

Has anyone ever wondered why Man created GOD in his own image? Or which really is the blunder? IF the blunder was God creation of Man (because he regretted it according to the bible) or Man creation of GOD. Though from what I could deduct from the bible man created God in his own image! Knowing fully well none of the authors of the scripture met this imaginary God one or one than to picture a super-being according to their limited imaginations at the time of writing the scriptures.

I think this is the first thing we should consider before really going into the religions that later sprung up after the believe in the man in the sky. Though I will like to agree that the invention of God have been to some extent helpful to the human race i.e in civilization and union of human societies or communities from time to time. But still the same as caused wars and conflicts. Imagine what Moses would say today if he was able to fly in an airplane and found out there was nobody behind the clouds lol.

Men created God back when they couldn’t find answers for simplest things like gravity. Everything we know about God has been told to us by fellow human beings. It is bound to be filtered and colored by human perceptions. It will also be shaped by the motives of those who do the telling.

Some people take the Bible to be the literal word of God, and Mohamed claimed to have written down direct dictation from Allah, these claims are only assertions of authority, backed by nothing outside themselves (the authors). We can choose to accept, or reject the claims. I reject the claims of divine authorship. As I can as well claim that this material I’m typing is being inspired divinely too!

Some people will be very sad at the discovery of their own child having imaginary friend; which is not far from what they do in the practice of religions themselves. Having to talk to invisible creatures they believe somewhat protects them. Who is actually passive until some coincidence happens and they give him credits for it. And give DEVIL credit for whatever seem to be evil to them. Because if you just got robbed the thieves will say “Thank God I didn’t get caught” and You will say ”Damn the devil remembered me today  “

It is perfectly awesome to have a God to set up a better morality into people if the fear of an invisible creature would put them on-check than the government system itself. As some people fear HELL which nobody has ever been to than the JAIL/justice system in place.

But if God already knows the future, then humanity is destined to corroborate with his knowledge of the future and not have true free will to deviate from it. Therefore our ‘free will’ contradicts an omniscient god. As it means that I can do things to SURPRISE God. Lol And Gawd will open is mouth and say HA!!!! Na Wa oh! Even him will say “God dey sha” because something must have created God and there will be God of Gods xxxxx …. ad infinitum.

My proofs that Man created GOD in their own image according to the bible are as follows:
- Jealousy (His ego doesn't allow competition and wants to be the only GOD, he kinda admits there are other gods then)
- Hatred /Discrimination / Racism (How he preferred Isrealites)
- Anger (He was mad at Adam and Eve for having sex) several occasion where he showed his anger
- Regret (when he regretted creating man means he’s not omniscient.)

Well in my conclusion I may hold an agnostic view that the lack of evidence that a God may exist doesn’t mean the later doesn’t exist. Or maybe it’s just still not proof-able at the moment and may later be proofed as human gain more knowledge about the matter of the Existence of God. But confidently I can argue that a God according to the existing mainstream scriptures is very implausible in its contradictory attributes. As it is logically impossible to have omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, transcendence and omnibenevolence in one package. This is logically contradictory, incomprehensible, or absurd, and therefore the existence of such a god is a priori false.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Sweetnecta: 12:31pm On Jul 20, 2011
^^^^^^^^and his parents believe in God with proper Name; Allah.

he refuses to change his islamic name. i wonder how he is against the God Whose decreed religion on man this threader refuses to drop a name from said religion he bears?

he loves a name, he despises the religion and denies the God. what a joke.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 5:08pm On Jul 20, 2011
Bro, this is brilliant. It explains why God is seen as an "OLD MAN" sitting the sky. The "humanized" image of God. So the idea man holds today about God is nothing but man's invention.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Pennywise(m): 5:42pm On Jul 20, 2011
What an interesting write-up. A hausa interpretation will be nice to have. You may then proceed to distribute in the streets of

Maiduguri. Boko Haram should be thankful for your marvellous insight.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 6:10pm On Jul 20, 2011
What if GOD was woman? And men just dont wanna admit as its as always been a man's world. But its more logical for god to be an hermaphrodite. Although God is an intangible spirit in many religions and therefore is believed to have no gender. In Islam  it is considered blasphemy for Allah to be placed in a human or animal sexual gender category. Allah is most often referred to with the pronouns Hu or Huwa, and although these are commonly translated as him, they can also be translated gender-neutrally, as it. Qur'an 112:3–4 states: "He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like Him [It]." which insome ways could mean he's genderless or a HE.  But I can tell for sure that the God in the bible is masculine according to the scriptures

Even in the bible that guy ([b]Lot [/b]if I can remember) that said he's daughters gave him wine and they slept with him. I would like to believe he raped them after getting drunk which is more plausible than the twisted story of a woman raping him. But due to superiority men had in those days I believe his story will be the approved one and the story will of-course be in his favor.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by UyiIredia(m): 6:50pm On Jul 20, 2011
I do not think man invented God. It would not have withstood the test of time if so.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 7:19pm On Jul 20, 2011
Uyi Iredia:

I do not think man invented God. It would not have withstood the test of time if so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Read that thats how it was in circle for so long. Not that it withstood any test of time.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Sweetnecta: 7:56pm On Jul 20, 2011
^^^^^^^^^^^^ he has spoken about the Jewish and or the Christian God. when you write to critic any matter, the most important evidence is always in the first sentence. in this case, tESlim has used 'man created man in His Own Image'. you will only find this conept in the bible.

in the Quran, however, you will not find such concept of 'image of God'. God declares that Nothing of His has man. and He does not have anything of man. it is very clear therefore that all are creatures. God, alone is the Creator. He is singly Unigue in every respect.

@tESlim; you dont even know a single thing about Islam before you left it. you should have asked mom and dad; these two are usually the first resources of comfort, safety, wisdom before we breakout trying to definite ourselves as individuals. you just broke out without taking advantages that parents offer. i see why you are in a dire strait.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by mazaje(m): 8:32pm On Jul 20, 2011
Sweetnecta:

^^^^^^^^^^^^ he has spoken about the Jewish and or the Christian God. when you write to critic any matter, the most important evidence is always in the first sentence. in this case, tESlim has used 'man created man in His Own Image'. you will only find this conept in the bible.

in the Quran, however, you will not find such concept of 'image of God'. God declares that Nothing of His has man. and He does not have anything of man. it is very clear therefore that all are creatures. God, alone is the Creator. He is singly Unigue in every respect.

@tESlim; you dont even know a single thing about Islam before you left it. you should have asked mom and dad; these two are usually the first resources of comfort, safety, wisdom before we breakout trying to definite ourselves as individuals. you just broke out without taking advantages that parents offer. i see why you are in a dire strait.

Your delusion knows no bounds. . . . . .God declared in the Koran or men declared? Please your evidence to show that any external being wrote the koran beside the lies of the authors is WHAT?. . . . . .Yahweh wrote the bible too,no

This old man keeps making senseless statements and sounding like a deranged baby. . . . .Gosh. . . .
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by mazaje(m): 8:46pm On Jul 20, 2011
Uyi Iredia:

I do not think man invented God. It would not have withstood the test of time if so.

Men invented all the Gods according to their beliefs and culture and the God idea kept evolving. . . .Men invented all the Gods and as such NO God can be shown to exist independent of man made stories, man made writings, man's cultural acceptance and societal influence. . . .Gods exist ONLY in the imaginations of the believers. . . .Some Gods existed for thousands of years before they died away or were replaced with new ideas or conception of other new Gods ,example the ancient Egyptian and Greek Gods. The Jesus God came into existence some 2000 years ago. . .Allah God came into existence some 1500 years ago. . . . .Before then these God concepts and the theology that keeps them alive did not exist. . . . . . .
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Sweetnecta: 9:11pm On Jul 20, 2011
@Mazaje; « #8 on: Today at 08:32:39 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 07:56:53 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^ he has spoken about the Jewish and or the Christian God. when you write to critic any matter, the most important evidence is always in the first sentence. in this case, tESlim has used 'man created man in His Own Image'. you will only find this conept in the bible.

in the Quran, however, you will not find such concept of 'image of God'. God declares that Nothing of His has man. and He does not have anything of man. it is very clear therefore that all are creatures. God, alone is the Creator. He is singly Unigue in every respect.

@tESlim; you dont even know a single thing about Islam before you left it. you should have asked mom and dad; these two are usually the first resources of comfort, safety, wisdom before we breakout trying to definite ourselves as individuals. you just broke out without taking advantages that parents offer. i see why you are in a dire strait.

Your delusion knows no bounds. . . . . .God declared in the Koran or men declared? Please your evidence to show that any external being wrote the koran beside the lies of the authors is WHAT?HuhHuh. . . . . .Yahweh wrote the bible too,no?HuhHuh??

This old man keeps making senseless statements and sounding like a deranged baby. . . . .Gosh. . .
.[/Quote]as to the bold, let me play on words for you; your delusion knows no bounds. . . . . Mazaje declared in the 'Nairaland.com" or computer declared what is in the bold? please your evidence to show that any 'human being' wrote the 'bold' besides the lies of the author 'computer' is what? HuhHuh. . . . Radio wrote the music too, no?HuhHuh??



[Quote]Faith doesn't transcend reason at all. Faith sidesteps reason. .[/Quote]lost in denmark.



[Quote]« #9 on: Today at 08:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Uyi Iredia on Today at 06:50:15 PM
I do not think man invented God. It would not have withstood the test of time if so.

Men invented all the Gods according to their beliefs and culture and the God idea kept evolving. . . .Men invented all the Gods and as such NO God can be shown to exist independent of man made stories, man made writings, man's cultural acceptance and societal influence. . . .Gods exist ONLY in the imaginations of the believers. . . .Some Gods existed for thousands of years before they died away or were replaced with new ideas or conception of other new Gods ,example the ancient Egyptian and Greek Gods. The Jesus God came into existence some 2000 years ago. . .Allah God came into existence some 1500 years ago. . . . .Before then these God concepts and the theology that keeps them alive did not exist. . . . . . .[/Quote]this shows your ignorance and delusion. i was going to respond to your first statement about God being an invented beliefs of cultures with a single statement that your atheism which is an invented culture of later human generation wants the earlier knowledge to be forgotten. As to Allah, before Muhammad [AS} was born, the man who sired him who he never knew is named Abdullah. There is no evidence therefore that Muhammad invented the Name Allah because no one accused him of bringing what they are not familiar with. Jesus was reported to have said Ellah. This is a syriac accented of Allah. similar to yoruba saying awusa instead of hausa, or igbo saing Yoruba instead of yoruba. you need to grow up, man.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by mazaje(m): 9:41pm On Jul 20, 2011
Sweetnecta:

@Mazaje; « #8 on: Today at 08:32:39 PM »as to the bold, let me play on words for you; your delusion knows no bounds. . . . . Mazaje declared in the 'Nairaland.com" or computer declared what is in the bold? please your evidence to show that any 'human being' wrote the 'bold' besides the lies of the author 'computer' is what? HuhHuh. . . . Radio wrote the music too, no?HuhHuh??


lost in denmark.


this shows your ignorance and delusion. i was going to respond to your first statement about God being an invented beliefs of cultures with a single statement that your atheism which is an invented culture of later human generation wants the earlier knowledge to be forgotten. As to Allah, before Muhammad [AS} was born, the man who sired him who he never knew is named Abdullah. There is no evidence therefore that Muhammad invented the Name Allah because no one accused him of bringing what they are not familiar with. Jesus was reported to have said Ellah. This is a syriac accented of Allah. similar to yoruba saying awusa instead of hausa, or igbo saing Yoruba instead of yoruba. you need to grow up, man.


Mr man you have lost your bearings. . . .You are completely gone. . . .
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by divinereal: 9:46pm On Jul 20, 2011
Ever wonder why all the major religions in the world are from Asia??

Hinduism - India
Buddism - India
Judaism - Middle East
Christianity - Middle East
Islam - Middle East


And the Middle Eastern ones are the most aggressive

All religious people are atheists/agnostics to all other religions, lol Just wonder why they can't see the bs in their backyard. SMH!
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 7:23am On Jul 21, 2011
@Sweetnecta

There is no point for argument back and forth on the forum. All I'm challenging you to do as a deist is to proof the existence of your god. If he doesn't have a computer get his address and DHL him a net-book with a connection , so he can talk for himself or something. Or do a seminar and invite him to be a guest speaker.

You believe in DEVIL to? And if God is Holy who invented EVIL? Or what is the ORIGIN of EVIL? And is the Devil to powerful for him to handle? Or maybe they where both gods that created everything. And God wanted all the credits of creation (remember he's a jealous person); which made devil revolted. Devil was like we created all this things together and you want them to worship only you? No way! I'm revolting with my own staffs. Maybe the devil probably knew the truth and had se.x with Eve first to show her that life is more than ignorance. I hope you didn't believe it was apple they eat in the middle of the garden?

Knowing well that the bible didn't want to be X-rated on that part. Everybody should have known by now that the middle of the garden is the pu.s.sy the garden is the pubic hair. And devil must have been the first to 4uck Eve. Then Adam! Do you know there are rare twins occurrence? Where the twins are of different father? Maybe Cain and Abel was lol.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 7:55am On Jul 21, 2011
@Sweetnecta, the number one slave of Allah.

mazaje:

This old man keeps making senseless statements and sounding like a deranged baby. . . . .Gosh. . . .

Re: The Invention Of God By Man by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:59am On Jul 21, 2011
tEsLim:

What if GOD was woman? And men just dont wanna admit as its as always been a man's world. But its more logical for god to be an hermaphrodite. Although God is an intangible spirit in many religions and therefore is believed to have no gender. In Islam it is considered blasphemy for Allah to be placed in a human or animal intimate gender category. Allah is most often referred to with the pronouns Hu or Huwa, and although these are commonly translated as him, they can also be translated gender-neutrally, as it. Qur'an 112:3–4 states: "He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like Him [It]." which insome ways could mean he's genderless or a HE. But I can tell for sure that the God in the bible is masculine according to the scriptures

Even in the bible that guy ([b]Lot [/b]if I can remember) that said he's daughters gave him wine and they slept with him. I would like to believe he violated them after getting drunk which is more plausible than the twisted story of a woman Desecrating him. But due to superiority men had in those days I believe his story will be the approved one and the story will of-course be in his favor.

thats the reason why Paganism has God in the form of men, women, animals, part human-part animal, part man-part woman. etc. We do not discriminate, be it it man, woman or animal. cool
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 8:10am On Jul 21, 2011
tEsLim:

@Sweetnecta

You believe in DEVIL to? And if God is Holy who invented EVIL? Or what is the ORIGIN of EVIL? And is the Devil to powerful for him to handle? Or maybe they where both gods that created everything. And God wanted all the credits of creation (remember he's a jealous person); which made devil revolted. Devil was like we created all this things together and you want them to worship only you? No way! I'm revolting with my own staffs. Maybe the devil probably knew the truth and had se.x with Eve first to show her that life is more than ignorance. I hope you didn't believe it was apple they eat in the middle of the garden?
Knowing well that the bible didn't want to be X-rated on that part. Everybody should have known by now that the middle of the garden is the pu.s.sy the garden is the pubic hair. And devil must have been the first to 4uck Eve. Then Adam! Do you know there are rare twins occurrence? Where the twins are of different father? Maybe Cain and Abel was lol.

You're in the ball park. You see, what had happened was, Eve was tired of running around n@ked and being God's personal freak show. She also suspected that Adam was on the down low with god because God and Adam used to wrestle n@ked. When the serpent came and told her how God was a freak who created them just for his divine amusement, she had a feeling well up inside her but she could't express what she felt. That's when the serpent gave her the fruit and suddenly she knew what she felt. The disgusting feeling and shame of being a pervert's personal freakshow. Then the serpent told her to convince adam to eat the fruit too and when Adam ate it, he became uncomfortable at their unclothedness and he also felt some pain in his rectum. So he and eve went on the lam and a couple of days later, God returned from Jupiter and decided to take a stroll in the garden and frolick with his Unclad sex slaves. To cut a long story short, he found out that his dumb n@ked creatures had become smart and realised that he was a pervert. He got pissed off, cursed them and their descendants and as a final act of compassion, the all powerful, all knowing creator of the universe killed to animals in order to use their fur as clothes for them.

A god that used nuclear fusion to create stars, the god who created gravity,electromagnetic forces and billions of complex organisms was only able to use Animal skin to clothe his favorite creation!!! Still my favorite part of this great story.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 8:15am On Jul 21, 2011
PAGAN 9JA:

thats the reason why Paganism has God in the form of men, women, animals, part human-part animal, part man-part woman. etc. We do not discriminate, be it it man, woman or animal. cool

We do not discriminate, be it man, woman, child, animals, rocks, paper, scissors, trees, bushes or water. In our righteous ignorance, we worship any and everything and if you tell us otherwise, we will send our half horse, half man god to r@pe you.

Paganism: Promoting ignorance since men lived in caves.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:15am On Jul 21, 2011
^^^^ 

excuse me Sir but u must have misunderstood me. i was saying, we do not discriminate among living things.  angry

a half-horse half-man is a centaur. a symbol of wisdom.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 8:17am On Jul 21, 2011
PAGAN 9JA:

^^^^ cheesy cheesy

Praise to the spirits of the Grand Canyon and praise to the divine spirits inside Olumo rock.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 8:20am On Jul 21, 2011
PAGAN 9JA:

^^^^ 

excuse me Sir but u must have misunderstood me. i was saying, we do not discriminate among living things.  angry

a half-horse half-man is a centaur. a symbol of wisdom.

My bad, we also worship dead ancestors, invicible spirits, and the blood of dead animals or human blood are very important in our rituals.

Our symbols include, but are not limited to,centaurs, sphinxes, gargoyles and cherubs.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:27am On Jul 21, 2011
^^ very good. cool

by the way, we have nothing to do with gargoyles. they are just carved water spouts. tongue
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by alstarmayo(m): 8:35am On Jul 21, 2011
@op do u believe there is satan?
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 10:15am On Jul 21, 2011
alstarmayo:

@op do u believe there is satan?

If there are no gods how will the evil god devil exist? Be logical. And people lie against the devil a lot. Its the devil work blah blah
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 10:35am On Jul 21, 2011
PAGAN 9JA:

^^ very good. cool

by the way, we have nothing to do with gargoyles. they are just carved water spouts. tongue

I thank you. The gods also thank you.

Re: The Invention Of God By Man by alstarmayo(m): 11:18am On Jul 21, 2011
so you dont believe in supernatural forces on this earth, they are all illusion the herbalist and ritualist we grew up to see are 'magicians'
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by tEsLim(m): 4:45pm On Jul 21, 2011
If you do believe in supernatural forces I will be glad if you can proof it. This is the technology race and a new age and time. We can't be thinking backward any longer. Gone are the days that anyone should believe in spirits. Now its totally science and technology. Respects to all the innovative scientist (gods of science)
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by alstarmayo(m): 4:55pm On Jul 21, 2011
How about people that sacrifice human head for money, or cult boys that are shot and the bullet did not penetrate. How do you explain that?
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by PAGAN9JA(m): 10:56pm On Jul 21, 2011
some things just cant be explained by science. undecided

thats 1 of the laws of nature. if some things can be explained, then they must have an opposing force, i.e., some things cant be explained.

the subject in this case is science.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Sweetnecta: 1:04am On Jul 22, 2011
@teSlim; « #13 on: Yesterday at 07:23:32 AM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta

There is no point for argument back and forth on the forum. All I'm challenging you to do as a deist is to proof the existence of your god. If he doesn't have a computer get his address and DHL him a net-book with a connection , so he can talk for himself or something. Or do a seminar and invite him to be a guest speaker.

You believe in DEVIL to? And if God is Holy who invented EVIL? Or what is the ORIGIN of EVIL? And is the Devil to powerful for him to handle? Or maybe they where both gods that created everything. And God wanted all the credits of creation (remember he's a jealous person); which made devil revolted. Devil was like we created all this things together and you want them to worship only you? No way! I'm revolting with my own staffs. Maybe the devil probably knew the truth and had se.x with Eve first to show her that life is more than ignorance. I hope you didn't believe it was apple they eat in the middle of the garden?

Knowing well that the bible didn't want to be X-rated on that part. Everybody should have known by now that the middle of the garden is the pu.s.sy the garden is the pubic hair. And devil must have been the first to 4uck Eve. Then Adam! Do you know there are rare twins occurrence? Where the twins are of different father? Maybe Cain and Abel was lol.[/Quote]since i am a muslim [no 1 slave of Allah as martian said above [i am happy that you recognized me as a slave of Allah]], and you are named teslim [an islamic name from silm, salaam, islam], i am certain that those who gave you those names are still muslims or were when they gave you that name. if they are still, they are my brother and sister in islam. now ask them to prove the existence of Allah The Almighty to you. if they can't, then come to me so that i can direct you to dr. lawrence b. brown. i tell you there is no atheist in battlefield during wars. there was no atheist in foxholes in 2nd world war.
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Sweetnecta: 1:17am On Jul 22, 2011
@Mazaje;« #11 on: July 20, 2011, 09:41 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on July 20, 2011, 09:11 PM
@Mazaje; « #8 on: Today at 08:32:39 PM »as to the bold, let me play on words for you; your delusion knows no bounds. . . . . Mazaje declared in the 'Nairaland.com" or computer declared what is in the bold? please your evidence to show that any 'human being' wrote the 'bold' besides the lies of the author 'computer' is what? HuhHuh. . . . Radio wrote the music too, no?HuhHuh??

lost in denmark.

this shows your ignorance and delusion. i was going to respond to your first statement about God being an invented beliefs of cultures with a single statement that your atheism which is an invented culture of later human generation wants the earlier knowledge to be forgotten. As to Allah, before Muhammad [AS} was born, the man who sired him who he never knew is named Abdullah. There is no evidence therefore that Muhammad invented the Name Allah because no one accused him of bringing what they are not familiar with. Jesus was reported to have said Ellah. This is a syriac accented of Allah. similar to yoruba saying awusa instead of hausa, or igbo saying Yoruba instead of yoruba. you need to grow up, man.

Mr man you have lost your bearings. . . .You are completely gone. . . .[/Quote]mazaje is not familiar with igbo people calling yorubas Yoruba or the yorubas calling hausas awusas, i guess. so you have heard a danish call you masaje? the fulanis will say s instead of sh. come on, man. i will recommend a website to your atheist heart. maybe you will realize your follies.



@Martian (m) « #14 on: Yesterday at 07:55:15 AM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta, the number one slave of Allah.

Quote from: mazaje on July 20, 2011, 08:32 PM
This old man keeps making senseless statements and sounding like a deranged baby. . . . .Gosh. . . .[/Quote]and you have to post a picture of an innocent child with his own problems to illustrate your point? you have no shame for exploiting the innocent young boy.

go help your atheist heart here to find direction; www.leveltruth.com
Re: The Invention Of God By Man by Nobody: 2:26am On Jul 22, 2011
Sweetnecta:

i tell you there is no atheist in battlefield during wars. there was no atheist in foxholes in 2nd world war.

I can't speak about WW2 because I hadn't become an earthling then, but I can speak for the Iraq war.  If there had been foxholes in Iraq, I would have jumped in, but it was just sand everywhere, which subsequently turned to mud when it rained. grin Apart from me, we also had Pat Tillman who gave up football after 9/11. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

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