Digiman:

@ Zebra - you are not doing your friend any favours by mentioning his name here, remember its a public forum, its not the best place to discuss matters that concerning national security.

Men thanx, i ve removed it.

Alpha calling to Zebra , Alpha calling to Zebra.

I like the way you trust and believe what your friend has told you. I also trust and believe my friend who is a Wing Commander ( your friend's bosses' boss) at the same base as your friend .

What a coincidence. Your friend flies one of the last two alpha jets, and my friend also happens to fly an Alpha jet ( the other one), which means that the onus will be on my friend and your friend to defend us should the need arise. The rest of the Airforce should join the army as combat soldiers !

Alpha calling to Zebra , Alpha calling to Zebra. You don win . Over and out.


Regards.

@FACE

You are funny. We know ourselves sha. All of us na one, no shaking.

İf any one intrested in joing the Uk AMRY send me mail to adebisi12000@yahoo.co.uk

Why UK not Nigeria army?

nigeria needs about $3 billion to upgrade its army to world standard, yet currency happy Soludo wants to spend between $12 billion to $20 billion on his annual money-printing ceremony.

is this facts?

$12 billion to print money? hyperbole/ exaggeration is a national past time in Nigeria

shey dem soboma george don dey beg

zebra:

As for combat helicopters, 3 of my friends all Flt. Lt's are among those sent to US for combat helicopter flying with the hope of coming back to fly the new combat helicopters the NAF is planning to acquire. Go to Airforce base in PH and see the helicopters they have there, only 2 Mi-35P can fly at the moment out of 4. All the BO-105 helicopters have been grounded. Also go to MM airport in ikeja the NAF has one helicopter wing there; none of the BO-105 helicopters can fly. So where did dey house all the combat helicopters and jets you are talking about?? na underground hanger them house them??

So you think the NAF will expose the locations of all their combat aircrafts to you and put them in plain sight for everyone to see?

It's a well known fact that the Air force and Navy were severly weakened by Abacha and babangida's regime.

I dunno who's talking about our MiGs, but our stock of MiG 17s and 21s are pretty much grounded now. Our alpha jets are a joke, unable to withstand any modern fighter in aerial combat.

From Wikipedia

The Nigerian Air Force is the air arm of the Nigerian military. It is one of the largest in West Africa, consisting of 100+ fighter aircraft including SEPECAT Jaguars, Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21s, and Dassault-Dornier Alpha Jets, and a handful of Russian made bombers and military transport aircraft. However in recent years many of them are no longer airworthy.

In 2005 it was reported that Nigeria has approved $251 million USD to purchase 15 Chengdu F-7 fighters from China. The deal includes 12 F-7NI (NI = Nigeria) single seat fighters, and 3 FT-7NI dual-seat trainers. [1] The $251 ($252?) million package includes $220 million for 15 aircraft, plus $32 million for armaments, including 20 live PL-9C AAM, 10 training PL-9 rounds, unguided rockets, and 250 kg bombs.

Nigeria had previously considered a $160 million deal to refurbish its fleet of MiG-21's by Aerostar/Elbit Systems, IAI, and RSK MiG. However, with the new F-7 purchase, the government of Nigeria has decided to scrap the refurbish option and grounded its fleet of MiG 21's.



[Aircraft
Combat aircraft
15 Chengdu F-7 (12 F-7NI, 3 FT-7NI)
32 MiG-21 (grounded, to be retired)
18 SEPECAT Jaguar (grounded, to be retired)
Trainers
60 RV-6
12 MB-339
24 Aero L-39
37 Bulldog T1
24 Dassault-Breguet/Dornier Alpha Jet
20 Do 27
36 Do 28
Transport aircraft
5 G.222 (Possibly being refurbished by Italy) [3]
1 Boeing 707
1 Boeing 727
1 Boeing 737
1 BAe 125
2 Dassault Falcon 900
9 Do 228
6 Fokker F27
1 Fokker F28
1 Gulfstream II
1 Gulfstream IV
9 C-130
Helicopters
14 Hughes 300
24 BO 105
6 Mi-24
9 Mi-34
Transport helicopters
11 Eurocopter Puma
12 Eurocopter Super Puma
4 Mi-8 [/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]



All our SEPECAT JAguars and MiGs are to be scrapped!

Yes, we have the largest air force in west africa, but that isn't sayin gmuch

Sorry texazzpete but, quoting wikipedia these days automatically disqualifies your argument. Although you are right. The MIG 21s and SEPECATS are to be grounded.

@Mariory

They don't have anything more than i said. Ilhave lived in different Airforce bases north, south, east and west in nigeria; and i'm still living in one of the bases, so i know what i'm saying. Take it or leave it. Most of those Aircrafts listed in wikipedia don't exist in the NAF inventory. It's pure propaganda. Go to their combat base at Makurdi, PH, Yola and Kainji and visit their hangars and see for yourself, fleet of grounded jet figthers and combat helicopters.

It may also interest you to know that most pilots in the NAF have not flown any plane for more than 15 years now while some have been grounded and will never fly in the NAF again because there are no aircrafts for them to fly; especially those who were type-rated as MIG-21 and Jaguar jet pilots as well as BO-105 helicopter pilots.

zebra:

Take am easy; na lie!! Whats your friends name?? The Nigerian Air Force is better called Nigerian Ground Force. Which planes do dey have at the moment?? The squadron of Alpha jets they bought during shagari regime which dey used to scare cameroon then have only about 2 or so flying. I was told this by one of my friends (Flt. Lt. ------------); a fighter pilot with the Air weapons School, NAF, New-Bussa, Kainji where the Alpha jet fighter squadron is. He is the youngest fighter pilot in the NAF at the moment. Are you going to use only 2 flying jets to fight and win a war?? The Nigerian Army infantary, armour and artillery put together to some extent can fight and win a war but i won't say they are the best in West Africa because they lack a lot of computerized systems and weapons which would have given them advantage.

zebra:

@Mariory

They don't have anything more than i said. Ilhave lived in different Airforce bases north, south, east and west in nigeria; and i'm still living in one of the bases, so i know what i'm saying. Take it or leave it. Most of those Aircrafts listed in wikipedia don't exist in the NAF inventory. It's pure propaganda. Go to their combat base at Makurdi, PH, Yola and Kainji and visit their hangars and see for yourself, fleet of grounded jet figthers and combat helicopters.

It may also interest you to know that most pilots in the NAF have not flown any plane for more than 15 years now while some have been grounded and will never fly in the NAF again because there are no aircrafts for them to fly; especially those who were type-rated as MIG-21 and Jaguar jet pilots as well as BO-105 helicopter pilots.

bros your graduation na wa o. from being friend to to living on. wahala no dey sha.

@Mariory
Sorry to burst your bubble, but contrary to poular Nigerian Opinion, people do not exist solely to mess up wiki entries, and the entire open source encyclopaedia thingy works pretty well.

A recent BBC research showed Wikipedia to be as accurate as the Encyclopaedia Britannica on scientific issues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm

@Sijien
I was born and brought up there. Some of them were my school/classmates while some met me there and became my friends when they joined the force.

It's really sad that almost everyone looks down on the men and women that serve in our country's military,so i typed down a few points that i think everone should know:

1- Nigeria (unlike most african countries) produces 20%-if not more- of her weapons. That means that all firearms used by the army,navy,airforce,police and customs (except the state security service) is produced in nigeria. These include the FN-FAL,berreta 9mm,browning hi-power,GPMG,grenades,mortars,etc.

2- We have an armoured personnel carrier assembly plants run by Styer and located in bauchi. Currently, the plant is responsible for the repairs and upgrade of our FV101 scorpion tanks used for recon. ops.

3-All bulldog trainer aircraft used for airforce pilot basic training is assembled in nigeria. And we still have an aircraft assembly plant run by Dornier in Kaduna.

4-Our country's military is not just the sole power in west africa, but the mainstabilising force here and in Africa as a whole. And that is a fact.

5-For incompetent soldiers/sailors/airmen that most of you paint them to be, they've performed exceptionally well in battle. For example:
a-We crushed Charles Taylors NPLF rebel force and brought back peace to Liberia.
b-Just before the fall of Free-town during the war in Sierre-Leone, a unit of Nigerian soldiers were responsible for the protection of a hotel used by the Americans to evacuate all foreign natioanls within the country.And although they faced an enemy numerically superior to them with no hope of any reinforcement as all other units were busy fighting to defend the capital, they held out until everyone was safely evacuated,thanks to their superior fire discipline,training,and of course our Nigerian alpha jet pilots that flew combat air support that day.Sadly most part of Freetown fell at the end.But the tactics used to recapture the capital is studied in West Piont.
c-In Ivory Coast, the Nigerian airforce was responsible for the evacuation of some Nigerian students trapped while on a field trip to the country when the crisis there escalated.
d-Our airforce pilots carried covert operations flying weapons and supplies into Zimbabwe in support of the ZANU-PF in the 1970s.
e-Back home in the Niger-Delta before the cult war in sept. 2007 btw the Joint Task Force (JTF) and the cult groups (de-bam,de-well,etc), the federal govt chose not to use the military because they,along with the top military and intelligence agencies chiefs believed that the crisis could be solved through dialogue. Besides,everyone was scared of another Odi. So the military was restricted to protecting the water ways,govt oilfield assets and personnel and anti-bunkering ops. However when they were drawn into the fight in PH,due to the police's inability to curb the activities of the cultists/militants, the military performed very well,and they had the support of everyone living in PH. They engaged these cultists in densely poplulated areas,killing a large number of them and destroying hideouts (thanks to members of the state security service and military intelligence units that infiltrated the various groups), and restoring peace and security to port harcourt. But the arm of the JTF that really impressed me was the airforce. They used the Mi-35 Hind gunship in densely populated areas with no precision weapons you find in hi-tech military forces in the world but still inflicated maximum damage on the cultists with little or no damage to public property,and no innocent civilian was killed in any of the airstrikes.This is a testament to the training and discipline of these pilots and those soldiers/policemen that played the roles of combat air controllers. However we still have problems hunting them down in the creeks, due to lack of more heliopters and gunboats. but that may soon change as the govt has already placed an order for a squadron (11-16 units) of augusta-109 combat helicopters for the airforce and 2 ATR 42 MP maritime patrol aircraft also for the airforce.

6- Apart from a very few countries in africa (South Africa,Libya,Egypt), the Nigerian navy operates operated a hi-tech system of unmanned arieal and armed surface (maritime) vehicles (UAVs) supplied by Elbit of Israel and is currently operational in the niger-delta theatre.

7-I accept the fact that most of our combat aircrafts are grounded, thanks to corruption.But most people don't know these:
a-we just bought some F-7NG fighter aircrafts which is a modern chinese version of the Mig 21 with sophisticted avionics suit. At the same time, the Mig 21 has been slated for repairs and upgrade
b-the upgrade of our c-130 fleet is already up and running (one aircraft has already been returned),and i believe that of the G-333 aircraft has already been completed.
c-the B0-105 helicopters are to be withrawn from service. The same goes for the Jaguar. Vintage aircrafts like the mig-17 are in storage. However, i hope that they begine the repairs of our fleet of PUMA helicopters as they are really important troop carriers. The same goes for our alpha-jets
d- orders for a squadron of A-109 helicopters and 2 ATR maritime planes have been placed.

8- the nigerian navy had already begun the repairs of our frigrates,and corvettes at the naval dockyard.thanks to the civilain and naval engineers, we've begun to patrol the gulf of guinea again.

So to everyone who has a grudge against our men and women in the military,you may not like them,but you will respect them.

if we dont have an army, what do we have fire brigade or boys scout

We sure have an army especially our infantry soldiers.

Our country's military is not just the sole power in west africa, but the mainstabilising force here and in Africa as a whole. And that is a fact.

the egyptian, libyan and south african forces could be considered stronger than the nigerian army. stop with the generalizations

If an army is decided on size, yes we have one.
If an army is decided on capability then we have a question, are we technologically efficient ? are we disciplined, motivated and commited ??
The average army has a night time fighting capability, night vision is standard not an option.

Sometime ago i watched a BBC documentary of Sierra leone, and the cameras were live, at that moment a couple of rebels decided to let off a couple of rounds into the nigerian camp, cameras rolling see our guys ducking, jumping, rolling without direction and returning fire into the wind at assumed and hopeful targets, complete pandemonium, every body find level and the usual, i no wan die Oh.

I watched another documentary US soldiers, not navy seals, delta force or 82nd Airborne, just regular marines and some insurgents decided to let off some rounds the response was immediate marines running M16's blazing, M240's letting loose straight into the line of recieved fire, in hot pursuit,  No Shakin ! No Fear !! disciplined, directed, determined,  proffessional and efficient.

Imagine 10 Egbesu boys with a few chinese made  AK47's , RPG's and a couple of high calibre MG,s enter PH(for day time not night) the city go close it will almost take a whole battalion to clear them. I REST OH !!!

Forget the Nigerian Army. Like our national football team the green eagles, they are over-rated. Years of neglet by successive goverments have destroyed profesionalism and decipline. I doubt we can even defeat Cameroon if war were to break out between both countries today.

Babangida and Abacha deliberately weakened the armed forces to preserve their illegitimate goverments. Many people in the army today did not join to fight any wars. It used to be the shortest route to power until money-miss road politicians came onboard.

Peacekeeping is a different ball game from open warefare. I have little respect for our soldiers unfortunately, especially the officer class. They have not earned it. Not in the Niger Delta. Not in the streets where they are no more than bullies. Not anywhere.

The disrepair and lack of battle readiness is a legacy of the many decades of military misrule. During that era senior officers were so politicised and engaged in the pursuit of money that military issues were neglected. The air force is in bad shape because it was deliberately starved of funds from 1986 onwards as "punishment" for the alleged involvement of air force officers in the 1985 Vatsa coup plot. Contrary to popular opinion, military coups have badly damaged the military.

"the egyptian, libyan and south african forces could be considered stronger than the nigerian army. stop with the generalizations "

If it comes to quantity of arms, and in some cases quality,these countries you've just mentioned are ahead of us,especially south africa. but with the exception of south africa,i do not have much respect for the rest.Reasons?The egyptians are basically being spoon fed by the americans who give them a large amount of what they use provided they do nothing against Isreal, and i still don't see much professionalism.the same goes for the libyans,who got their collective asses whooped by the chadians in the 80s.Unlike us (doubt that?The Germans in East Africa in world war one, the Japanese in burma- WW2,NPLF in liberia, RUF in sudan, and currently the militants in the Niger-delta).They also don't wield as much influence on the world stage as we do to three things:

-our robust foreign policy
- our economy (2nd largest in africa)
-our oil

If i may also add, they've not even done so much as we have when it comes to peacekeeping/enforcement/protection of other african countries sovereignity as we Nigerians have.Even Ghana has done a far better job than them.

Now,i'm not saying that we're the best.God knows we have a lot of flaws, thanks due to corruption and the past military rule. But we've been trying to fix these flaws.I can proudly say that our military boasts of very many intelligent officers and men trained not only in the country,but also in prestigious military academy in the US,UK,FRANCE, INDIA,PAKISTAN,ISREAL ,CANADA were they tend to excel.Today, unlike most african countries, our fire power has improved.Due to the conflicts in the niger-delta, and the dangerous world we currently live in,we've also had to change our doctrine in the way we fight, embracing trainings such as counter insurgency (COIN), better ways of intelligence gathering (ELINT and HUMINT), hostage rescue, command and control ,etc.Our national war college also happens to be one of the best in africa,with officers from other african,and even european countries attending it.

Anyway, we still have a lot to fix in the military, especially the airforce.As you know, air power plays a major role in modern conflict.

[b] If an army is decided on size, yes we have one.
If an army is decided on capability then we have a question, are we technologically efficient ? are we disciplined, motivated and commited ??
The average army has a night time fighting capability, night vision is standard not an option.

Sometime ago i watched a BBC documentary of Sierra leone, and the cameras were live, at that moment a couple of rebels decided to let off a couple of rounds into the nigerian camp, cameras rolling see our guys ducking, jumping, rolling without direction and returning fire into the wind at assumed and hopeful targets, complete pandemonium, every body find level and the usual, i no wan die Oh.

I watched another documentary US soldiers, not navy seals, delta force or 82nd Airborne, just regular marines and some insurgents decided to let off some rounds the response was immediate marines running M16's blazing, M240's letting loose straight into the line of recieved fire, in hot pursuit, No Shakin ! No Fear !! disciplined, directed, determined, proffessional and efficient.

Imagine 10 Egbesu boys with a few chinese made AK47's , RPG's and a couple of high calibre MG,s enter PH(for day time not night) the city go close it will almost take a whole battalion to clear them. I REST OH !!! [/b]


We do have NVGs. The problem is that they aren't so much and most times, there are in storage due to some of the old -school officers that we still have (thank God, a few left) who believe that they should be used only during "special occasions" as if they were some form of christmas cloth. But like i said, things are changing, thanks to the new breed of post-military rule forward thinking and young officers. Our doctrine is also changing,due to the post 9-11 world we live in, and the niger-delta crisis due to the opponent we fight and the terrain we fight in.By the way, we may have had some flaws in sierre leone, but the country is currently peacefull due to the bravery and sacrifice of our men.That's why the british came to us,asking us to stay due to our experience, and the UN handing over operational control of the unit sent to replace ECOMOG after the former commander from india messed it up.

One more thing, if there is one flaw that the nigerian army,it's one thing-OVERKILL.it happened somalia, liberia, and sierre leone in the 90s. the only time i saw nigerian soldiers really scared was during the fall of freetown and the capture of lungi airport.

Finally,on the militant case in PH. i have to agree that they acted with impunity before JTF came.But these are the reasons:
- The military at 1st never wanted to be drawn into the problems in port harcourt but rather left it to the police.On a good day,that was the right thing to do.Besides, the whole niger-delta problem is a very sensitive issue.
- Even when they wanted to carry out actions on these cult groups, their hands were tied by the federal govt `cos they feared there was going to be a repeat Odi (remember OVERKILL?).
-the police command couldn't handled these militants because they where well armed with chinese AK-47s,RPG,GPMGs,etc.the closest thing the police has to grenades are flashbangs and CS canisters. and they are armed lightly (FN,K-2,beretta 9mm,ak-47). also, only mobile police squadron in rivers was stretched thin due to the fact that they had to protect other assets outside the capital, and units from other squadrons were rushed in.this gives the militants a slight edge as they know PH more than these new mobile police officers and men.Finally,corruption played its own part as some officers were in the payroll of these cultists

but finally, the military (JTF) got involved and they performed excellently, securing PH and killing these militants

For those who say the Nigerian millitary is worth there salt, all they need to do is see there incompetency in quenching the insurgency in the Niger Delta. The only thing they know is how to pick on harmless, defenseless citizens, afterall, this is the same army where in order to cope up with the inadequacies or lack of funding for a well equipped and well trained standing army, soldiers are subjected to inhumane treatment all in the name of toughness. This cadets are not only subjected to horrible treatments, but molestation to make them subordinate. Proper 21st century millitary training is substituted for brutal and archaic "training". Let's see them perform a simple millitary manuever or quell an insurrection or uprising in the North whenever those great ones go crazy again. This is the so called "powerful army" that was woeful while enduring serious casualties during ECOMOG operations in sierra leone and liberia in the 90's despite the fact that the millitary was underreporting or flat out denying the number of millitary dead.

For those who say that Nigeria's army is the strongest in West Africa should know that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

army for wetin when the police based at home are not even doing a decent job

@morenike
no mind them o, before the niger delta crisis started, they were spending more money on the ministry of defense than education and agriculture, who knows what they are defending.

[b]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those who say the Nigerian millitary is worth there salt, all they need to do is see there incompetency in quenching the insurgency in the Niger Delta. The only thing they know is how to pick on harmless, defenseless citizens, afterall, this is the same army where in order to cope up with the inadequacies or lack of funding for a well equipped and well trained standing army, soldiers are subjected to inhumane treatment all in the name of toughness. This cadets are not only subjected to horrible treatments, but molestation to make them subordinate. Proper 21st century millitary training is substituted for brutal and archaic "training". Let's see them perform a simple millitary manuever or quell an insurrection or uprising in the North whenever those great ones go crazy again. This is the so called "powerful army" that was woeful while enduring serious casualties during ECOMOG operations in sierra leone and liberia in the 90's despite the fact that the millitary was underreporting or flat out denying the number of millitary dead.

For those who say that Nigeria's army is the strongest in West Africa should know that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.[/b]

I'm not trying to say that we have the best military. If you go through my previous posts, i've said that we still have a lot of flaws from equipment, welfare of soldiers and sailors to training, thanks again to corruption. But as i said before, things are really changing for the better in the military.

As for the Niger-delta crisis;let me ask this question: how would you and most Nigerians feel if the govt. took all-out military action with the gloves off when the thoughts of incidents like Odi still rings in the minds of most Nigerians, especially those in the Niger-Delta?That is the one thing those in the top hierachy of the military and the federal govt do think about because the Niger-Delta problem is a very sensitive issue.Besides, continous military action may only make it worse. You've also forgotten that the military's fighting in a VERY DIFFICULT terrain (the swamps), and they lack a large number of helicopter.

By the way, i happened to witness the crisis and the military's intervention in PH, and i have to say that i was really glad that the military took over security.I'm also proud of the way they dealt with the militants.

This cadets are not only subjected to horrible treatments, but molestation to make them subordinate.

What do you expect? You expect their trainers to feed them with candy? This is how you weed out poor-officer material because you are expected to make decisions under an intense or very stressfull conditions.In the end what you have are capable men.You think ours is bad?Find out more about the Plebe period that cadets of the US military academy go through.My favourite are the russians and Isrealis.

There are practices, strategies and equipment that are essentially there's barest minimum and then there’s the basic standard.

Now standard should have some relationship to national wealth (GDP), ability and socio-economic/poitical expectation regional and international. What standard do we have or expect from our Military or like electricity do we expect darkness and failure always.

How many MI35’s do we have that are operational? These attack helicopters are far from the best they should have infra red imaging, however, I doubt this. My suspicions are that our dearest wife corruption, misappropriation, over inflation has made us by substandard and second hand equipment. This should be no surprise, are our officers not selling equipment to the same militants? (30,000 AK47’s missing from the armoury of the Nigerian armoury)

If you trained with the SAS, Navy seals, and Delta Force with the best equipment you get home and they give you an AK47 and say go on do your job it’s a waste of time.

We make $150 million dollars a day from oil at least. When our Uncles, Grandfathers and Mothers in power want to buy cars for themselves they don’t buy Lada, Volga and Moskvitch. They know how to get the latest of the latest Lexus, BMW, Merc. And Cadillac.

However, when it comes to national security we look for Chinese, Russian, Indian etc.

Our Air force, Navy & Army would fail comprehensively by commensurate and comparative analysis.

Egypt has been buying F16’s and F18’S for over 25 years one F18 will take out 5 Mig 21’s upgraded or not, ask Iran and Iraq they will testify. Egypt’s GDP does not exceed ours.

Ocelot 2006 I respect your comments and your optimism.