ujaay:

Remember that when Saul was chasing David to kill him and David got an opportunity to kill him first, he resisted the temptation because Saul was anointed by God. He even slayed the man that brought the "supposed" good news of Saul's death. So the fact that Saul was even possessed by demons at a point did not make him less anointed in the sight of David. He left it to God to say. NB: I am neither a member nor an acquaintance of T.B. Infact, I only know his name and can't even recognize him by picture, but that does not give me the right to talk against him. I used to do that but I have come into knowledge and wisdom and wish the same for those of you that are yet to experience it.

ummm!!where u there?

Is Tunde Bakare a man of God?

From my own point of view, YES.

Are his prophesies always true?

Emphatiacally No!

Infact, in recent years i am careful who i give attention to.

I made that decision, when he prophelied

that he saw pastor Chris Oyakhilome in a vision recieving money

from T B Josuah in order to endorse his ministry. Imagine such lies in the name of God.

I knew that sooner or later he will be exposed by those same prophesies.

That is not to say i do not respect him; he is a man of God and i respect him as such.

@Donnie,
u sure about this cos i thought twas Pastor Oyaks and Pastor Okotie that had a row over that.

donnie:

Infact, in recent years i am careful who i give attention to.

I made that decision, when he prophelied

that he saw pastor Chris Oyakhilome in a vision recieving money

from T B Josuah in order to endorse his ministry. Imagine such lies in the name of God.

@donnie,

Even your own submission get as e be!

Does it then mean that a "vision" and a "prophecy/prophesying" are one and the same thing?

If they do not mean the same thing, why misread them as if they are the same?

Perhaps, there's something you know that we might be missing here - so could you help us understand how Tunde Bakare "prophelied" that he saw Chris Oyakhilome in a "vision"?

Anyways, it's a good thing to be careful who you give attention to - and you should apply that caution to especially Chris Oyakhilome. We know that not everything Pastor Chris has said or taught is the truth of God's WORD.

pilgrim.1:







Anyways, it's a good thing to be careful who you give attention to - and you should apply that caution to especially Chris Oyakhilome. We know that not everything Pastor Chris has said or taught is the truth of God's WORD.

now i suppose u can criticize anoda Pastor so far it aint ur church ummmm!talk of double standards

seun001:

now i suppose u can criticize another Pastor so far it aint your church ummmm!talk of double standards

I'm not criticizing him Pastor Chris - whether or not he happened not to be my pastor. The thing is simple: the double standard that LoveWorld members apply to others should be addressed closely to their base.

pilgrim.1:

I'm not criticizing him Pastor Chris - whether or not he happened not to be my pastor. The thing is simple: the double standard that LoveWorld members apply to others should be addressed closely to their base.

ok,think i get ur point.

u r trying to say the poster is kinda loveworld member hmmmm.i think the guy had better mellow cos his pastor aint exactly a saint.in fact very far from being one.

Fellow Marylanders, always leave the things of God and concentrate on your conscience

It is even wrong to judge

Prince22:

Fellow Marylanders, always leave the things of God and concentrate on your conscience

It is even wrong to judge

who is judging?would u please explain the concept of judgement and observation.

pilgrim.1:

@donnie,

Even your own submission get as e be!

Does it then mean that a "vision" and a "prophecy/prophesying" are one and the same thing?

If they do not mean the same thing, why misread them as if they are the same?

Perhaps, there's something you know that we might be missing here - so could you help us understand how Tunde Bakare "prophelied" that he saw Chris Oyakhilome in a "vision"?

For someone to see a vision is one thing. But to tell the same vision to God's people is equivalent of prophecy. In fact, the mere preaching of the message can be regarded as prophecy because prophecy is speaking words (from God) with power. Even the scriptures are regarded as the word of prophecy.

With regards to Pastor Bakare who is seen by many in the church as standing in the office of the prophet, and whose words are expected to be coming from the Lord, we should not expect any less. I am not out to criticize him. No. I am only saying that since it is expected that his words meet the criteria of having come from the Lord, i was dissapointed to hear that from him.

yes if a man of God says A and its A1 He has Lied and the OLD TESTATMENT THEY QUOTE FROM says that the prophet must Die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@donnie,

donnie:

For someone to see a vision is one thing. But to tell the same vision to God's people is equivalent of prophecy. In fact, the mere preaching of the message can be regarded as prophecy because prophecy is speaking words (from God) with power. Even the scriptures are regarded as the word of prophecy.

There's a difference between preaching and prophesying - and we both know that. What I'm interested in is how he made it a prophecy. Please excuse the fact that I don't know exactly the gist of what you're pursuing; perhaps it might help if you could point me to something that concretely confirms your case.

donnie:

With regards to Pastor Bakare who is seen by many in the church as standing in the office of the prophet, and whose words are expected to be coming from the Lord, we should not expect any less. I am not out to criticize him. No. I am only saying that since it is expected that his words meet the criteria of having come from the Lord, i was dissapointed to hear that from him.

I wonder if you actually were merely 'disappointed' to hear that from him; or you'd rather wanted to criticize him and satisfying an unspoken desire to do so. I wonder how you would react if someone was to say the same thing about Pastor Chris as you said:

"I made that decision, when he prophelied. . . Imagine such lies in the name of God"

If someone makes a similar statement about Pastor Chris, what would have been your reaction - mere "disappointment". . or you'd have acted differently?

I think we need to be balanced here in dealing with issues. Many of us claim that it is wrong to castigate anointed men of God - some even go as far as calling fire down on others, as well as consign them to hell! But I don't see the same people being careful to observe the same caution when it comes to commenting about pastors in other churches not their own.

The soul of the son and the father are mine saith the lord of Host the soul that sinneth shall die pastor or no pastor.

The death here talks being cut of from God. He may still have the gift and authority over people. SATAN HAS THE SAME THING HE SATAN still has

1) AUTHORITY OVER DEVILS
2) HE HAS HIS GIFTING ( ESPECIALLY IN MUSIC)

I don't klnow how some people listen or reason out things, what Tunde Bakare said about Obasanjo is absolutely true. He didnt say he was going to die before, but there was a clause which people just avoid when talking about tunde bakare. if he said Obasanjo will die outrightly, why did he now talk about what kind of Government he was going to lead. Did he not talk and compare with Saul and Agag, just check your records. when Jonah said Nineveh will be destroyed, and God turned things around. If you were ther will you will definitely say Jonah was a liar. Do you even know why God gives such utterrances-Prophecy. Everyone who opens his/her mouth any how should rememebr where the problem stems from.
Whatever makes the Pagan king Tyre useful to Israel and for the Bible to call him, his servant can make Yaradua Gods choosen. why cant we all hope he is Gods choosen, at least after the disspointing reign of the Old f**l who doesnt even seem to know what he wants to do. Thank him I heard the communication company moved with him to otta.
May god save us from enemies who pretend as friends

@Pilgrim

Do i not have a right  to express what my concerns are about anything?

Believe me, i am not biased towards him or anyone. I do not have time for that.

Pls correct me if I am wrong.

I see that you are trying to make excuses for some little lies to be told by men of God every now and then as long as they do not present them as prophecies. No sir! That is not the way God deals with His ministers. A man of God must be blameless. He must be mature.

The bible says, we offend in many ways but if any man offend not in Word, He is a perfect man.

I do not know if you have actually sat down to consider the meaning of the Phrase, Man of God. This means that men should seek the Word of the Lord from your lips. It is that serious.

The bible says about Samuel the prophet:

1 Samuel 3:19
And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

The Lord will hold us accountable for every idle Word.

@donnie,

donnie:

Do i not have a right to express what my concerns are about anything?

I don't think I ever denied you any right to say what you wanted to say. What's the problem with anyone commenting on what others have posted - especially where such posts leave questions to be asked?

donnie:

Believe me, i am not biased towards him or anyone. I do not have time for that.

Easy to claim you're 'not biased', but it's also easy to see how your guts boil over anything being said about Pastor Chris. You've demonstrated your biases in more ways than one.

donnie:

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I see that you are trying to make excuses for some little lies to be told by men of God every now and then as long as they do not present them as prophecies. No sir! That is not the way God deals with His ministers. A man of God must be blameless. He must be mature.

Lol, donnie. If I was making excuses for anyone, I would've allowed yours to pass without making comments. There are more things that Pastor Chris has said 'as long as he did not present them as prophecies' - and for all that, they're simply NOT true! How do you deal with that? I asked you to point me to something that concretely confirms your case - did you miss that?

One example - (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-106.320.html#msg946757). If people are going to be "blameless" and "mature", we haven't heard how the N39 million (or was it N49 m?) saga was 'maturely' and 'blamelessly' handled. After all the gooses cry, how did LoveWorld show integrity on the matter - before you now come on board demanding from others what you haven't displayed in your quarters? How have you answered to the simple requests even twice made to clear the air surrounding the mystery?

donnie:

The bible says, we offend in many ways but if any man offend not in Word, He is a perfect man.

That's true. You failed to apply the 'perfection' test to your own 'man of God' and yet quickly sat as judge over another.

donnie:

I do not know if you have actually sat down to consider the meaning of the Phrase, Man of God. This means that men should seek the Word of the Lord from your lips. It is that serious.

I've done as you wondered about - and if you want more, I'm willing to show you what you may not yet have grasped on the meaning of that phrase "Man of God". Don't try to entertain me with half measures and the double standards of requiring what you haven't defended soundly from your headquarters.

donnie:

The bible says about Samuel the prophet:

1 Samuel 3:19
And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

The Lord will hold us accountable for every idle Word.

Be sure of this: the Lord will hold you accountable for the idle words you have spoken against another 'man of God' simply because his name is not "pastor Chris". Agreed?

Cheers.

At least you agree your man of God lied. I have had no cause to say that of Pastor Chris whom you are struggling tooth and nail to bring into this discussion.

Leave all that comparison alone. It dosn't work that way. You can go ahead and start another thread on the topic if you are so keen on covering up a lie with another lie. This thread isn't about such comparisons. Are you trying to turn a lie into truth? It is clear to all who love truth that Pastor Chris never recieved money from the man, neither did he write nor order any of those letters to be written. Even the man accused of fraud said he never gave pastor chris nor the church stolen money even though he had donated money to the church at other times like any other christain will do.

If i want to bring up all the dirty stories and rumurs i have heard about men of God in this country (including pastor Bakare), it could be an endless endeavour, and besides, it will do  His body no good.

Do not forget, there is nothing  hidden under the sun, lies cannot outlive truth.

I believe i have made myself clear enough. God hates the lying tongue.

@donnie,

donnie:

At least you agree your man of God lied. I have had no cause to say that of Pastor Chris whom you are struggling tooth and nail to bring into this discussion.

Where did I "agree" that "my" man of God "lied"? Are you so desperate to slur Tunde Bakare for your hero-worship to Pastor Chris that you assume I must be a member of Latter Rain Assembly? What have you done with the issue of the [b]N[/b]39 (49) million "offering" which still remains a "holy" mystery for you and your crew to solve to this very day? How many issues about Love World teaching have I tried to discuss with your fellow hero-worshippers that you guys up until date have been able to clarify from the Bible?

The "lie" you see in another pastor that you don't see in yours only highlights how deceptively you can parade yourself.

donnie:

Leave all that comparison alone. It dosn't work that way.

Rubbish. If you can apply a rule unto others and cry hoo-ha when applied to your own empire, who do you hope to wayo with your holier-than-thou judging of another man?

donnie:

You can go ahead and start another thread on the topic if you are so keen on covering up a lie with another lie.

I've never been keen about covering up any lie from anyone. You so desperately want to slur another person as far as he is not a bootlicker under the Love World camp that you now imagine my query of your duplicity to be "covering up a lie with another lie"! Don't dare me, donnie. If you want to see Love World for the cosmetic facade you're whooshing about here, open a thread and I'll gladly meet you there.

donnie:

This thread isn't about such comparisons. Are you trying to turn a lie into truth?

I've asked you to clarify the "lie", not this beggarly snivel you're appealing to.

donnie:

It is clear to all who love truth that Pastor Chris never recieved money from the man, neither did he write nor order any of those letters to be written. Even the man accused of fraud said he never gave pastor chris nor the church stolen money even though he had donated money to the church at other times like any other christain will do.

Great! It's taking forever to return stolen money back to its owners, not so? You guys know how to practice "truth". How many people in Love World have personally handed money over to Pastor Chris? If stolen money enters your coffers, it is still stolen money. Go and return the stolen money before pointing fingers at another man whom you accuse of having "prophelied". No amount of spirituality can justify stealing in the name of the Lord. RETURN the STOLEN money!!

donnie:

If i want to bring up all the dirty stories and rumurs i have heard about men of God in this country (including pastor Bakare), it could be an endless endeavour, and besides, it will do His body no good.

You've done one already - accusing him of having "prophelied"; and what good did it do you personally or any other person who read yours? When you are ready to write an encyclopedia about men of God in Nigeria who have done one bad thing or the other, remember to put Pastor Chris as number 1. If you fear to do so, apply the same fear to prevent you from slurring others.

donnie:

Do not forget, there is nothing hidden under the sun, lies cannot outlive truth.

I don't forget that, dear donnie. . I don't forget. That is why we're asking that the stolen money that up until now continues to be mystified in your camp, should be quickly returned to its rightful owners! Only God be thanked that you guys could not keep it hidden under the sun!

donnie:

I believe i have made myself clear enough. God hates the lying tongue.

I know - so should you guys stop lying in your camp!

donnie:

all who love truth that Pastor Chris never recieved money from the man, neither did he write nor order any of those letters to be written. Even the man accused of fraud said he never gave pastor chris nor the church stolen money even though he had donated money to the church at other times like any other christain will do.

how many times has anybody that donated to Loveworld church donated to Pastor Chris directly.

and please the letter originating from the church was signed by Pastor Chris himself so dont lie to us here.are you trying to say his Signature was forged or Pastor Chris did not read the letter b4 signing.

@seun001,

Na the same thing I just want donnie to clarify for us be that - you just summarised the whole thing. Cheers.

Oh i feel sorry for you. I actually thought you were abreast of the facts. Do you now see where were differ?

Well, if you will like to know; he never signed that letter. The signature was not his. He wasn't even aware of such a letter being written. It was only after his attention was drawn to the publication, that he asked for the writer of the letter who has since explained himslf. If you understand administrations, you will know what i'm saying. In Christ Embassy, money recieved as donations, are for the local church. This man was a  member of one of the many satelite churches in lagos.

Lie? I have too much rank for that. It is already clear to you (even though you pretend as though it isn't) because you would prefer to believe a lie. How profane.

hmmmm,i'm tempted to fish out that publication from the papers if i can just remember the date.

donnie:

Oh i feel sorry for you. I actually thought you were abreast of the facts. Do you now see where were differ?

Well, if you will like to know; he never signed that letter. The signature was not his. He wasn't even aware of such a letter being written. It was only after his attention was drawn to the publication, that he asked for the writer of the letter who has since explained himslf. If you understand administrations, you will know what i'm saying. In Christ Embassy, money recieved as donations, are for the local church. This man was a member of one of the many satelite churches in lagos.

Lie? I have too much rank for that. It is already clear to you (even though you pretend as though it isn't) because you would prefer to believe a lie. How profane.

so his signature was forged,hmmmm,so other 'mighty' things will be happening in that church ,dont u think?

i dont understand an admin that found out that a leeter purportedly originating from the head Pastor was forged and they refused to retract the letter from the press or release a press statement.is that an admin?hmmmmm

well,i think if i remember well,the donation was a presentation in the main arena in Oregun,it wasnt just any other donation like u would like to play down the significance.
ANd he was promoted when he made the donations,that was also confirmed by the paper i read around that time,this happened b4 it was discovered the money was stolen.

believing a lie?
there is no lie in this,is there?
somebody donated stolen money,and when he was discovered ur church refused to acknowledge him being a member of ur church not to talk of the donation he made.what the h***ll are u talking about.

@seun001,

seun001:

somebody donated stolen money,and when he was discovered your church refused to acknowledge him being a member of your church not to talk of the donation he made.what the h***ll are u talking about.

Hehe. . . 'Signs' and 'Wonders' shall never end!

@donnie,

donnie:

Oh i feel sorry for you. I actually thought you were abreast of the facts. Do you now see where were differ?

Well, if you will like to know; he never signed that letter. The signature was not his. He wasn't even aware of such a letter being written. It was only after his attention was drawn to the publication, that he asked for the writer of the letter who has since explained himslf. If you understand administrations, you will know what i'm saying. In Christ Embassy, money recieved as donations, are for the local church. This man was a member of one of the many satelite churches in lagos.

Lie? I have too much rank for that. It is already clear to you (even though you pretend as though it isn't) because you would prefer to believe a lie. How profane.

There's only one thing that could have solved your misery. From all reports to date, nobody (including the 'donor' in question) has denied that the 'donations' were simply stolen money. As such, did Love World make any effort to solve the mystery by returning the booty? You give it a fine-sounding name and call it "donations", claiming that Pastor Chris never signed any letter. Does he or anyone in his empire need to sign any epistle to take delivery of stolen goods? Yet, the stolen money was never returned - under your celebrated and rotated excuse that "money recieved as donations, are for the local church." We hear: STOLEN MONEY received as "donations" are welcome to LoveWorld - as long as Pastor Chris didn't sign any letter!

You really have too much rank to be honest indeed, seeing that you'd rather lick up the sanctimonious bandolerismo in your camp!

PAstor Tund Bakare could have said somthing impending but averted when the recipient heeded to som advice. For Pastor Chris, i think h would allow such a paltry sum (N39m) to demean his image. Moreover, thre are security organisations like the police and the EFCC that would have been consulted to retrieve the money they (where it was stolen from) actually deem it fit.

Now, pleas note that we are all humans and we make mistakes often. No body therefore has the right to call a man of God a liar or a thief. Leave that to God to judge. God uses us inspit of ourselves.

All of you, go to bed.

@Cgift


That is the reason why he said be ye perfect even as your father is perfect. It says again Holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.

This men are far from holiness and they need repentence like any unregenerate sinner. They are possesed by demons and act in this way.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

This men are far from holiness and they need repentence like any unregenerate sinner. They are possesed by demons and act in this way.

Is it possible that God has abandoned you that you have lost all ability to discern? What do you know of these men that you have doubly accused as "unregenerate sinner" and "possesed by demons"? Is that what Jesus Christ sent you to say?

[list]Rom. 14:4
"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."[/list]

You had better retrace your spiritual history and ask God to show you where you derailed. Accusing another of 'demon possession' (especially when you know nothing about them) is a very, very serious matter before the Lord who alone is Judge of all!

Backslider:

This men are far from holiness and they need repentence like any unregenerate sinner. They are possesed by demons and act in this way.

pilgrim.1:

@Backslider,

Is it possible that God has abandoned you that you have lost all ability to discern? What do you know of these men that you have doubly accused as "unregenerate sinner" and "possesed by demons"? Is that what Jesus Christ sent you to say?

[list]Rom. 14:4
"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."[/list]

You had better retrace your spiritual history and ask God to show you where you derailed. Accusing another of 'demon possession' (especially when you know nothing about them) is a very, very serious matter before the Lord who alone is Judge of all!

well,isnt it nice to have them also called by what they call others that seem not to see their point of view.i hope you have noticed that tendency in them.
but still these are heavy words and i think we should exercise discretion in describing not only Pastors but other people as well.

You know what guys, i will not continue any further on these issues as i think i have explained my point as much as is necessary and besides, i know where discussions like these with folks like you always lead to.

As for the many explanations you might still need, maybe you should go back and consult those junk magazines and gossip websites/links which i percieve you visit regularly.

I am currently very busy with my work. God bless ya'll

donnie:

I am currently very busy with my work. God bless ya'll

@donnie,

That was quite predictable. No one's getting in your way, and it's good to be busy. Just be sure next time to not slur someone else for the same trade that hasn't been clarified at Christ Embassy.

Cheers.

donnie:

You know what guys, i will not continue any further on these issues as i think i have explained my point as much as is necessary and besides, i know where discussions like these with folks like you always lead to.

As for the many explanations you might still need, maybe you should go back and consult those junk magazines and gossip websites/links which i percieve you visit regularly.

I am currently very busy with my work. God bless ya'll

hey no sweat buddy,am also very busy with my job but i'll still be on the sidelines just in case.

i dont do junk magazines/gossip sites
i try as much as possible to confirm my sources of info.and just as an aside i have nothing against all these Pastors but i take an exception to granting them Saintly status.cheers