Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen - Religion - Nairaland
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| Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 3:15pm On Sep 04, 2011 |
[flash=400,400] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89HGjhl0Kvg?version=3&hl=en_US[/flash] |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by automania: 11:26pm On Sep 04, 2011 |
@Frosbel, he will be more surprised by this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLs6oVZCcPg&feature=player_embedded |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 10:29pm On Sep 06, 2011 |
Excellent !!!! |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Joagbaje(m): 11:02pm On Sep 06, 2011 |
frosbel: I dont know why I should be shocked by the myopic view of an ignorant man.even though he has I good sincere heart. Those who like to criticise the ministry of others should learn to ask themselves "what if I'm wrong in my judgement"? . They should find out the reasons why others do what they do. Supposing you are ignorant of the principles and revelation by which they do what they do? . Have you found out from them to know their passion and convictions?. Supposing they were once like you, and probably passed through the phase you're passing now. Supposing they have ,more information which you lack. Wise man will ask questions about others first than judging them by assumption. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 11:04pm On Sep 06, 2011 |
^^^ ah , you are calling a man of GOD who follows GOD with all his heart an ignorant man. What will you then say for the prosperity pimps and celebrity christian pastors ? Are they not also very ignorant  |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Joagbaje(m): 11:28pm On Sep 06, 2011 |
frosbel: It's not insult. He is a sincere man , but he's only working by the litle information he has. If I sit with him for an hour and I believe his language will change. It's just a problem of religious spirit that's all. What will you then say for the prosperity pimps and celebrity christian pastors ? Are they not also very ignorant I don't know about celebrity pastor whatever that means. Don't you believe in christian prosperity? Prosperity or poverty which one is Gods will? . |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Enigma(m): 8:14am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Joagbaje In the past, you told us that people should not speak bad about "ministers" --- even when in disagreement with them e.g. people should not abuse Oyakhilome because he is a "minister" and "ministers" have a special place and bla bla bla. But here you are denigrating a minister on this thread ---- because his message contradicts yours.  |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Claus(m): 9:07am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Joagbaje: I heard criticisms, from the pulpit, of the ministry of others many times while I was in CE. They were normally prefixed by the phrase "I'm not being critical, BUT. . . " |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Image123(m): 5:30pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
Joagbaje is the obvious ignorant one here. i'm not endorsing (if that's even my place) or fully supporting zac, but i'm certain zac poonen has more knowledge than the sum total of knowledge in CE. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by dare2think: 6:06pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
A few excerpts from the video ; “my loyalty is not with CFC, my loyalty is with Jesus Christ” ( Right or wrong, where should a Christian's loyalty lie?) “ I want people to be disciples of Jesus” “ If CFC becomes a denomination, I tell you, I’ll have nothing to do with it” “ Denominations get corrupt” (True or false) “The lord is not connected to CFC, The lord is connected to people who love him” (True or false) “The lord is not connected to any denomination” (True or false) Mr Joagbaje called this man an Ignorant Man for reasons beyond comprehension, yet he is an advocate of "touch not my anointed" when the issues of Nigerian Fraudsters are concerned. (Religionism at its best) I wonder which yardstick is used in measuring who a Man of God is? I wonder how many Nigerian Pastors can utter the statements this man has made. Myopic view?? lol , pls stop redefining words |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by nlMediator: 6:23pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
Claus: Another tactic ministries that criticize other ministers but insist they're not criticizing is to say that they're judging doctrine. Yet, the listeners know full well who's being attacked or criticized. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by nlMediator: 6:27pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
Image123: I went ahead and watched the video and was asking myself what the guy's "crime" was. Maybe, if we can hear what he said wrong, the criticism would be clearer. I must say that we charismatics have a tendency to feel that we know it all and that others are babes, carnal, etc. We really need to be careful to avoid missing the truth in what others are saying. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 9:54pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
@Jo my man. How far na? There's nothing ignorant in what the guy in the video has said. He simply says what the bible and even Paul made known to people when it was beginning to look like people were getting awfully "political" about who's flock they belonged to. I translated his 6-7 minute talk to be this: "If you feel the current congregation/group of people (see as I refrain from using the word church in this context as WE are the church, each of us baring the ark of the covenant within us through Christ) keep you from growing as you know you should, because to whom God calls He always leaves a witness within them to "bug" them about where they should be. If the current gathering or creed is not in line with your calling as granted by your inner witness, then BOUNCE to another so peace can reign first within you and then outward." The man in the video is boiling it back down to simplicity, as it should be. An unwavering faith in God, and not in men, because men fall. You seem to always be in a hurry to support unwavering faith in men instead of first slowing down and digesting the circumstance. I appreciate your zeal to defend your gathering, but be careful that this does not leave you foolhardy (forgive the word, couldn't come up with a better one) as to what truly matters. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Enigma(m): 12:35pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
Image123: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cfcr/Zac_Poonen Zac Poonen Zac Poonen (born November 5, 1939), is a Bible teacher and Christian author, from India. He is best-known for his teaching emphasis on holiness and discipleship, planting churches mostly in India, like Christian Fellowship Church, his main home church, but also churches in other parts of the world. He is also well known for using the Internet prolifically, writing numerous Christian books, recording thousands of audio sermons and video sermons, all available on the Internet for free. He also frequently conducts webcam Christian meetings with small home churches[1], and is a frequent Twitter user[2]. Poonen is perhaps best known for a comprehensive recording, THROUGH THE BIBLE, which is a 70 hour video bible study. This study gives a comprehensive overview of all 66 books of the Bible. He has also conducted similar extensive verse-by-verse studies of the entire New Testament and select books from the Old Testament. Poonen has authored 26 books on the deeper Christian life. Among them his most widely-read book is a book titled – Beauty For Ashes. 1.5 million copies of these 26 books are in circulation in various languages- in many of India’s languages as well as in Spanish, Norwegian, Dutch, Romanian, German, Portuguese, Turkish, Eritrean, etc., Tyndale House Publishers (one of the foremost Christian publishers in USA) has published his book WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE GOD? Kingsway Publications (one of the foremost Christian publishers in UK) published three of his books: BEAUTY FOR ASHES, RADIATING HIS GLORY,ONE BODY IN CHRIST. All of Zac Poonen’s books and video and audio sermons are available at www.cfcindia.com - free of charge. (Edit) And Zac Poonen was born in India on November 5, 1939. In 1955, he joined India’s National Defense Academy. He passed out as first among the Naval cadets in 1957. In 1958, he was adjudged Best All Round Cadet on the Cadet’s training Ship INS KISTNA. In May 1964, he put in his resignation-papers from the Indian Navy to engage in full time Christian ministry, but was permitted to leave only in May 1966. In between, in 1965, during the Indo-Pakistan war, he was Executive officer of a minesweeper in the Indian fleet. A sudden, unexpected ceasefire saved him from the real possibility of death in the Arabian Sea. He was then convinced that his life had been saved by God with an important purpose. He earned the Raksha Medal and the Samar Seva Star for his service in that war. . . . . . |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by ogajim(m): 1:29pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
You all can forget about Pastor JoAgbeje showing up anymore on this thread because each and every time he displays his PHONY Christian side and folks pick up on it, he simply abandon the thread and take his "game" to another thread. Thanks to Enigma for your due diligence to show that Zac Poonen is even more qualified than Joe's big boss  , little surprise that he is so DEFENSIVE. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 1:44pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
Before we'all take a stampede on Jo. . .maybe we should try and listen to what frosbel's righteous teacher exhorts again play the video to :36 - :38 play the video to 1:52 play the video to 3:44 maybe we could make a good discourse from here. . .guess I'll be with Jo on this one |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Enigma(m): 1:45pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
ogajim: My brother, only God can deliver Joagbaje; of course reasonable people will see the credentials of Poonen and know where to place him. The problem is that it will not be enough for Joagbaje: remember it is the same Joagbaje who has said he and Oyakhilome have "revelation knowledge" superior to the biblical writings (gospels and epistles), in the end, of all the apostles including the apostle Paul that he praises above others! |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 1:46pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
Enigma:  . . .now that's some serious claims. . .like did Jo really say that? hmmm can we get the source link? |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by ogajim(m): 5:40pm On Sep 08, 2011 |
Tonye-t: What's your point? Are you with the baptists and the others? I would like you to point out what EXACTLY Zach Poonen said that you and your lot don't agree with, nitpicking anyone? |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Joagbaje(m): 3:24pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
Tonye-t: Ask him Oo. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 4:16pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
ogajim: Am not with the catholics, methodists, anglicans, pentecostals nor baptists rather am with you the critics.  In :38 of the video, Zac the teacher made this comment . . .if you go to a place and maybe the the church dont have the correct pattern like we have, if you feel okay you can stay.(paraphrased) Now naturally I hate being judgemental in my views, but since the respected teacher- Zac feels "his church can claim monopoly of 'doctrinal-pattern correctness' [i.e he feels like his church CFC is the only correct church] then I guess we should look critically at points and his teachings Can one Church really have the power to claim "doctrinal-pattern correctness"? I certainly dont think so See below: |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 4:36pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
It is a grave error for any church wheresoever to claim "absolute doctrinal correctness". Analogically its like the hand goes out saying we are the only correct part of the entire human body. So what right has he got to feel the other parts are not so important too?. . .what makes him feel his church is the only "doctrinally correct church'? Maybe we sure need him to make redressals before making such claims 1 Cor 12:4-11 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.KJV . . . like maybe we should read it again if you go to a place and maybe the the church dont have the correct pattern like we have, if you feel okay you can stay - Zach Poonen |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 6:50pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
Tonye-t: You are digging too deep into what I see to be the result of a combination of current-audience-referential speech and English not being the speaker's first language. You just used that little and obvious grammatical mispropriation to then go on an all out spin disregarding 99.999 % of what he already said during that whole video. The memorable quotes and [b]essence [/b]of what he said that stand out to me are "My allegiance is not to CFC, but to Jesus Christ"(q). "If your spirit is led to another congregation, please go there"(e). "Don't join a congregation just because it has a name, but because it makes you grow into what you know God wants you to be"(e). That is my summary of what the man in the video said and I am in support of these 3 things. Let's depoliticize this whole thing. That is allowing oneself to be subject to the Devil's division tactics. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Enigma(m): 7:12pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
Joagbaje: You know I know where the bodies are buried and it won't take me that long to get the quotes out if I could be bothered. Just a couple of tasters: "James was a baby Christian"; he had faulty doctrine; he was on milk; whereas you and Oyaks are on "strong meat" James shouldn't have been martyred if he and the other apostles and early Christians had the revelation that you and Oyaks have. Only two apostles (Paul and John) had indepth "revelation" of Jesus' treaching; all the others didn't -- whereas you and Oyaks do obviously. Paul was wrong not to support the fraud, your type of fraud, of fleecing the flock. The writer of the book of Matthew was wrong to write "kingdom of heaven" Ati bẹẹ bẹẹ lọ!   |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Joagbaje(m): 9:23pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
Ere ori igi. . . .  |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 9:27pm On Sep 09, 2011 |
Tonye-t: You totally mis-road here. Once again, you run your mouth off in a rant without fully understanding what he is actually implying. Be quick to hear and slow to speak. His emphasis was on carnality and worldliness not on the church per se. So if you go to a different branch and they practice worldliness and you find another church that is more spiritual, go there. Did you listen at all |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Claus(m): 10:16am On Sep 10, 2011 |
Tonye-t: Just to add to what 2buff has said, how does his quote ". . . maybe they don't have the correct pattern like we have. . ." translate to a claim of having a monopoly on doctrinal pattern correctness. Since he rounded it off by saying people should still go to that church, he is probably just referring to styles (e.g. pattern of Sunday/mid-week service etc) as opposed to the much more crucial topic of doctrine. Surely he wouldn't advise people to go to a place where he has issues with the doctrine. In addition, your comments that Zac feels "his church can claim monopoly of 'doctrinal-pattern correctness' include quotation marks, which is a bit disingenuous since it is not a quote from his message. The phrase "doctrinal-pattern correctness" originated from you. Please don't ascribe it to someone else. |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 4:21pm On Sep 10, 2011 |
frosbel: At least this brother is beginning to grow some 'balls' very impressive of you to speak as a man for once! even though I wish you'wont take to your heels anytime soon. Okay. . .now lets see who runs his mouth in a rant Zach Poonen said : "maybe the church dont have the correct pattern like we have". . . frosbel pls what do you think is that "correct pattern" he feels they have that others dont? Secondly, whom do you believe has the power to say "one church has a correct pattern and the others dont" A Man or Jesus Christ? |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 4:22pm On Sep 10, 2011 |
^^ The gist passed over your head, you missed it , it was way over there. Listen once more and get it, then if you pay more attention to your teachers you will learn a wee bit more !!! |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 4:37pm On Sep 10, 2011 |
frosbel: Frosbel, I thought as much. . . there you go with this childish gimmicks of yours again. . . will you pllllsssss grow up? Okay lets assume I missed the gist now could you pls help me out again? I asked: frosbel pls what do you think is that "correct pattern" he feels they have that others dont? Secondly, whom do you believe has the power to say "one church has a correct pattern and the others dont" A Man or Jesus Christ? Dont be scared its just the two of urs and none else. . .  |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Tonyet1(m): 4:40pm On Sep 10, 2011 |
2buff: Firstly, I feel glad you think I am digging too deep. . .I'll tell you why! Secondly, glad you also see that Zach's comment as grammatical mispropriation, you do but I dont see it that way though. . .I'll tell you why! Thirdly, pls note that in spiritual teaching, there is nothing to accept in 99.99999999% of a lesson if one defiles the entirety. . .I'll tell you why! Fourthly, needless of you repointing on the good he said whilst the same time failing to attend to his rather obvious deceptive bit -ie. "doctrinal-pattern correctness claim". Fifthly, I dont think anyone is politicizing anything. . .I strongly believe falsehood could pass as truth when we fail to see the tares amongst the wheats  Much respect to frosbel's good teacher Zach Poonen |
| Re: Joagbaje This Will Shock You , A Very Short Message By Zac Pooen by Nobody: 4:42pm On Sep 10, 2011 |
Again , you are not listening. Listen then talk !!! You seem to run off in excitement , making random statements without any proper analysis. Surely you can do some listening, right |
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