kkins25:


You're wrong on all points. Principles of basic science have also been bastardized in ur weite up there.

His points are valid.

Or do you think both the sperm cell and egg aren't two invisible units?

Emusan:


So who decided this VERY CONSIDERABLE infusion of energy?

I don't understand this question.

The only thing from the mother is the basic nutrients, the embryo comes prepared itself.

Basic nutrients convert into energy. And as basic as they are they are considerable, ask any pregnant woman.

LordReed:
I don't understand this question.

I mean the fusion that took place, who decided it?

Basic nutrients convert into energy.

By the foetus itself.

And as basic as they are they are considerable, ask any pregnant woman.

I know, but the foetus carries out the task.

Emusan:


I mean the fusion that took place, who decided it?

You mean the fusion of the gametes? Aside from the decision to mate there is no other conscious decision being made.

By the foetus itself.



I know, but the foetus carries out the task.

Yeah, all living cells do that.

LordReed:
You mean the fusion of the gametes?

Gametes don't fuse but the chromosomes do.

So how can each chromosome locate and align with exact other chromosome, if not because it was designed that way?

Aside from the decision to mate there is no other conscious decision being made.

I love this point, so if there's no conscious decision. How can this tiny tiny cells know exactly what to do in other to build what is us?

Yeah, all living cells do that.

Good which means this unconscious living cells know exactly what to do without any external input. How come?

Emusan:


Gametes don't fuse but the chromosomes do.

So how can each chromosome locate and align with exact other chromosome, if not because it was designed that way?



I love this point, so if there's no conscious decision. How can this tiny tiny cells know exactly what to do in other to build what is us?



Good which means this unconscious living cells know exactly what to do without any external input. How come?

Because they chemical based and by the nature of our physical universe these chemical reactions follow a pattern without the need for any conscious intervention. If you put hydrogen and oxygen together you will get water, you don't need to instruct the atoms on what to do. Similarly the gametes will pair up because the underlying chemical reactions pave the way or are in effect, no instructions needed.

LordReed:
Because they chemical based and by the nature of our physical universe these chemical reactions follow a pattern without the need for any conscious intervention.

Smile....
From cell to chemical

Meanwhile, it's beyond just that.

If you put hydrogen and oxygen together you will get water, you don't need to instruct the atoms on what to do.

If AN INTELLIGENT HUMAN puts Hydrogen and oxygen together under a SELECTIVE conditions (i.e in the laboratory). Don't forget that part.

Chimpanzee can't put Hydrogen and Oxygen together and in their habitation and get water.

Human sperm fertilising female goat egg won't come out in a reasonable structure even both are cells (or chemical reaction according to you).

You know why? because the instructions in their DNA to form goat or human are different.

Similarly the gametes will pair up because the underlying chemical reactions pave the way or are in effect, no instructions needed.

That means you don't know what you're talking about. The instructions needed are already stored in the DNA.

The 22 female autosomes perfectly aligned with the male 22 autosomes.

Then the X - Y chromosome which is responsible for sex will do the same without missing it.

After this alignment is when fusion takes place where a new code will form that will build what is us.

Try to watch some "conception to birth" videos to understand this miracle especially one by Alexander Tsiaras

You can start from this thread

kkins25:
Ure simply reheating nd not making

Which was how the garri was turned to eba in the first place, so no issue.

Emusan:


Smile....
From cell to chemical

Meanwhile, it's beyond just that.



If AN INTELLIGENT HUMAN puts Hydrogen and oxygen together under a SELECTIVE conditions (i.e in the laboratory). Don't forget that part.

Chimpanzee can't put Hydrogen and Oxygen together and in their habitation and get water.

Human sperm fertilising female goat egg won't come out in a reasonable structure even both are cells (or chemical reaction according to you).

You know why? because the instructions in their DNA to form goat or human are different.



That means you don't know what you're talking about. The instructions needed are already stored in the DNA.

The 22 female autosomes perfectly aligned with the male 22 autosomes.

Then the X - Y chromosome which is responsible for sex will do the same without missing it.

After this alignment is when fusion takes place where a new code will form that will build what is us.

Try to watch some "conception to birth" videos to understand this miracle especially one by Alexander Tsiaras

You can start from this thread

I am not sure what you are trying to contest here. Is it that you don't think living cells are chemical structures or that the gametes are "attracted" to one another because of chemicals or that DNA is a chemical structure that reacts with other chemical structures to produce the effects which we see. Which of these are you contesting?

LordReed:
I am not sure what you are trying to contest here. Is it that you don't think living cells are chemical structures

Chemical structure don't receive instructions or send either.

or that the gametes are "attracted" to one another because of chemicals

Yes! They don't ATTRACT to each other because of chemicals but follow the instructions sent to them.

or that DNA is a chemical structure that reacts with other chemical structures to produce the effects which we see.

DNA don't react with each other but fused and a new code is generated that caused effect we see.

I gave you example of human and goat.

If it's just ordinary chemical reaction, then when a human sperm come in contact with a goat, it should have produced perfect structure.

Which of these are you contesting?

What is the origin of the instructions cells received to build a structure?

Emusan:


Gametes don't fuse but the chromosomes do.

The male gamete breaks into the female gamete. So, technically speaking, since, the content of the male gametes fuses with that of the female gamete, lord-reed is not wrong.

Emusan:
So how can each chromosome locate and align with exact other chromosome if not because it was designed that way?

This is a very complicated process and a difficult question. To say the other chromosome "locates" and aligns with its counterpart is the wrong presentation of this question.

Emusan:
Good which means these unconscious living cells know exactly what to do without any external input. How come?

unconscious living cells? explain.

Emusan:


Chemical structure don't receive instructions or send either.

No, chemical structures do not send or receive instructions.

Yes! They don't ATTRACT to each other because of chemicals but follow the instructions sent to them.

They totally do.

Sperm cells, bacteria and other microscopic organisms use varying concentrations of chemicals in their environment -- concentration gradients -- to approach or avoid something in a process called chemotaxis. Egg cells release an attractant chemical, which lures the sperm. The researchers studied this action in Ascidia -- sea squirts, brainless tubular creatures, which are only mobile as larvae.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181115104608.htm

DNA don't react with each other but fused and a new code is generated that caused effect we see.

I gave you example of human and goat.

If it's just ordinary chemical reaction, then when a human sperm come in contact with a goat, it should have produced perfect structure.

DNA is short for D eoxyribo N ucleic Acid clearly indicating it is a chemical structure. And the the thing you are calling code is just how it reacts to other chemicals based on the arrangement of the protein molecules,

Read more:
The chemical DNA was first discovered in 1869, but its role in genetic inheritance was not demonstrated until 1943. In 1953 James Watson and Francis Crick, aided by the work of biophysicists Rosalind Franklin and Maurice Wilkins, determined that the structure of DNA is a double-helix polymer, a spiral consisting of two DNA strands wound around each other. The breakthrough led to significant advances in scientists’ understanding of DNA replication and hereditary control of cellular activities.

Each strand of a DNA molecule is composed of a long chain of monomer nucleotides. The nucleotides of DNA consist of a deoxyribose sugar molecule to which is attached a phosphate group and one of four nitrogenous bases: two purines (adenine and guanine) and two pyrimidines (cytosine and thymine). The nucleotides are joined together by covalent bonds between the phosphate of one nucleotide and the sugar of the next, forming a phosphate-sugar backbone from which the nitrogenous bases protrude. One strand is held to another by hydrogen bonds between the bases; the sequencing of this bonding is specific—i.e., adenine bonds only with thymine, and cytosine only with guanine.

The configuration of the DNA molecule is highly stable, allowing it to act as a template for the replication of new DNA molecules, as well as for the production (transcription) of the related RNA (ribonucleic acid) molecule. A segment of DNA that codes for the cell’s synthesis of a specific protein is called a gene.

DNA replicates by separating into two single strands, each of which serves as a template for a new strand. The new strands are copied by the same principle of hydrogen-bond pairing between bases that exists in the double helix. Two new double-stranded molecules of DNA are produced, each containing one of the original strands and one new strand. This “semiconservative” replication is the key to the stable inheritance of genetic traits.
https://www.britannica.com/science/DNA


BTW the reason a human sperm will not interact with a goat's ovum is because the DNA sequences are incompatible with one another thus they cannot react in the manner that will cause an embryo to form. Maybe in a lab you can cause it to happen but it won't naturally.

What is the origin of the instructions cells received to build a structure?

They do not send or receive signals remember.

kkins25:
The male gamete breaks into the female gamete. So, technically speaking, since, the content of the male gametes fuses with that of the female gamete, lord-reed is not wrong.

So technically speaking, gametes don't fuse but the contents do.

This is a very complicated process and a difficult question. To say the other chromosome "locates" and aligns with its counterpart is the wrong presentation of this question.

very COMPLICATED PROCESS yet you said my presentation is wrong

unconscious living cells? explain

Ask reed himself, he first used that phrase.

LordReed:
No, chemical structures do not send or receive instructions.

Definitely!

They totally do.

Sperm cells, bacteria and other microscopic organisms use varying concentrations of chemicals in their environment -- concentration gradients -- to approach or avoid something in a process called chemotaxis. Egg cells release an attractant chemical, which lures the sperm. The researchers studied this action in Ascidia -- sea squirts, brainless tubular creatures, which are only mobile as larvae.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181115104608.htm

This is very funny

You forgot that these cells are unconscious living cells? But see them acting intelligently.

How does the egg know that sperm cell is around before releasing the chemical?

Sure the egg releases a chemical but the sperm cell knows exactly where it's going and what to do. As this process takes place at the far end of the fallopian tube.

It's not the chemical released by the egg that taught the sperm cell how to swim or inform the sperm cells how to increase its speed.

DNA is short for D eoxyribo N ucleic Acid clearly indicating it is a chemical structure. And the the thing you are calling code is just how it reacts to other chemicals based on the arrangement of the protein molecules,

Read more:
The chemical DNA was first discovered in 1869, but its role in genetic inheritance was not demonstrated until 1943. In 1953 James Watson and Francis Crick, aided by the work of biophysicists Rosalind Franklin and Maurice Wilkins, determined that the structure of DNA is a double-helix polymer, a spiral consisting of two DNA strands wound around each other. The breakthrough led to significant advances in scientists’ understanding of DNA replication and hereditary control of cellular activities.

Each strand of a DNA molecule is composed of a long chain of monomer nucleotides. The nucleotides of DNA consist of a deoxyribose sugar molecule to which is attached a phosphate group and one of four nitrogenous bases: two purines (adenine and guanine) and two pyrimidines (cytosine and thymine). The nucleotides are joined together by covalent bonds between the phosphate of one nucleotide and the sugar of the next, forming a phosphate-sugar backbone from which the nitrogenous bases protrude. One strand is held to another by hydrogen bonds between the bases; the sequencing of this bonding is specific—i.e., adenine bonds only with thymine, and cytosine only with guanine.

The configuration of the DNA molecule is highly stable, allowing it to act as a template for the replication of new DNA molecules, as well as for the production (transcription) of the related RNA (ribonucleic acid) molecule. A segment of DNA that codes for the cell’s synthesis of a specific protein is called a gene.

DNA replicates by separating into two single strands, each of which serves as a template for a new strand. The new strands are copied by the same principle of hydrogen-bond pairing between bases that exists in the double helix. Two new double-stranded molecules of DNA are produced, each containing one of the original strands and one new strand. This “semiconservative” replication is the key to the stable inheritance of genetic traits.
https://www.britannica.com/science/DNA

I don't need this long story, as this doesn't address my point.

The fusion of the 22 autosomes and X-Y chromosome where each chromosome knows exactly which one to align and fuse with is my point.

BTW the reason a human sperm will not interact with a goat's ovum

They fused (or going by word "interact" with each other.

If not a goat won't give birth to abnormal foetus when a man slept with it.

is because the DNA sequences are incompatible with one another thus they cannot react in the manner that will cause an embryo to form.

Yes! The instructions in their DNA are not compatible. Reason abnormal foetus will be delivered. But embryo will form.

The very DNA sequences is the instructions which tell each DNA how many times to replicate and when to stop replicating. All these instructions are programmed into the DNA.

So when a goat and human DNA come together the instructions will be distorted.

Remember, if this are just ordinary chemical reaction carried out by unconscious living cells there will always be a problem.

Maybe in a lab you can cause it to happen but it won't naturally.

You don't even need lab to know a human sperm cell can fertilised goat egg but the outcome will be very terrible.

They do not send or receive signals remember.

They do!

because you just agreed above that egg releases a chemical which the sperm cell will decode.

Is that not sending and receiving signal?

Emusan:


Definitely!



This is very funny

You forgot that these cells are unconscious living cells? But see them acting intelligently.

How does the egg know that sperm cell is around before releasing the chemical?

Sure the egg releases a chemical but the sperm cell knows exactly where it's going and what to do. As this process takes place at the far end of the fallopian tube.

It's not the chemical released by the egg that taught the sperm cell how to swim or inform the sperm cells how to increase its speed.

They are not acting, they are reacting. There is no intelligence to their reactions, they simply following chemical trails and reacting according to the chemical nature of their structures.

Neither the ovum or the sperm know anything they are simply work according to how they are put together. The ovum releases a chemical as soon as it enters the fallopian tube and protein receptor on the sperm are triggered by the chemical causing the sperm to follow the trail based on the concentration of chemicals in its environment.

I don't need this long story, as this doesn't address my point.

It addresses your point completely since you seem to be arguing against the chemical nature of DNA and its interactions.

The fusion of the 22 autosomes and X-Y chromosome where each chromosome knows exactly which one to align and fuse with is my point.

Which is a chemical reaction. The molecules making up the DNA bind with molecules from another set of DNA. There is no code or instructions beyond what those reactions cause.

They fused (or going by word "interact" with each other.

If not a goat won't give birth to abnormal foetus when a man slept with it.



Yes! The instructions in their DNA are not compatible. Reason abnormal foetus will be delivered. But embryo will form.

A human sperm will not fertile goat ovum naturally. No foetus will be formed.

The very DNA sequences is the instructions which tell each DNA how many times to replicate and when to stop replicating. All these instructions are programmed into the DNA.

So when a goat and human DNA come together the instructions will be distorted.

Remember, if this are just ordinary chemical reaction carried out by unconscious living cells there will always be a problem.

They are only called instructions and code to simplify their interaction when presenting to laymen, the passage i quoted shows the more technical way of describing it. The reaction of DNA follows the chemical composition of the genes forming the DNA. Human chromosome and goat chromosome cannot fuse because the chemical make-up are not compatible.

You don't even need lab to know a human sperm cell can fertilised goat egg but the outcome will be very terrible.

You do need a lab because that is the only way to rearrange the DNA sequences so that they are compatible, this does not happen naturally.

They do!

because you just agreed above that egg releases a chemical which the sperm cell will decode.

Is that not sending and receiving signal?

Apologies, I meant to write instructions not signals.

LordReed:
They are not acting, they are reacting.

Which shows they received what their reacting to.

There is no intelligence to their reactions, they simply following chemical trails and reacting according to the chemical nature of their structures.

But the instructions are coded in there.

Neither the ovum or the sperm know anything they are simply work according to how they are put together.

Who out them together?

The ovum releases a chemical as soon as it enters the fallopian tube and protein receptor on the sperm are triggered by the chemical causing the sperm to follow the trail based on the concentration of chemicals in its environment.

Very nice!

Which means the sperm has ability to decode and that instructions are within its own cell.

It addresses your point completely since you seem to be arguing against the chemical nature of DNA and its interactions.

It didn't and I didn't argue against the chemical nature.

You started with an analogy of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Don't forget!

So chemical nature of DNA has instructions within themselves to carry out all the activities which many agree to be PROGRAMMED.

Which is a chemical reaction. The molecules making up the DNA bind with molecules from another set of DNA. There is no code or instructions beyond what those reactions cause.

You agree that a code or instructions arose from that.

A human sperm will not fertile goat ovum naturally. No foetus will be formed.

So you haven't heard a goat given birth to abnormal foetus before with something like human head or face?

What caused it?

They are only called instructions and code to simplify their interaction when presenting to laymen

Not at all! That's exactly what it is. It's a code and instructions.

because, if you have Hydrogen and oxygen coming together to become water without input of an intelligent being and during the process the water supposed to fill a bucket and cup. These two elements know when to produce a new one to produce water and STOP producing a new one when the bucket was full and move to the position of the cup and did the same thing. Then you'll understand it's beyond just ordinary chemical reaction.

Apologies, I meant to write instructions not signals.

Smile.....

Emusan:


You forgot that these cells are unconscious living cells? But see them acting intelligently.

'Unconscious' in the sense of self-awareness. In the literal sense, living cells are conscious, meaning they can interact with their environment. A sperm cell is a specialized cell, albeit a specialized one.

Emusan:
How does the egg know that sperm cell is around before releasing the chemical?

The same way an amoeba cell digestive enzymes when it engulfs another living cell. There are molecular receptors in the cytoplasm of the cell that are receptive to specific molecules. Imagine the chemical receptors to be antennas that only pick the signal of specific frequency. Having said that, the sperm cell penetrates the ovum and releases the Chromosomes.

Sure the egg releases a chemical but the sperm cell knows exactly where it's going and what to do. As this process takes place at the far end of the fallopian tube.

it doesn't really know where it is going per se, but there are several factors at play. An amoeba cells if exposed to extreme sunlight, know to move away to darker spots. The sperm cell also relies on chemical signals (REMEMBER, THE SPERM CELL CAN SOMEWHAT BE CLASSIFIED AS A LIVING THING), which it uses as a map to locate a fallopian tube. Apparently, according to here, It may also involve the temperature gradient between the walls of the uterus and the fallopian tube.

It's not the chemical released by the egg that taught the sperm cell how to swim or inform the sperm cells how to increase its speed.

The sperm cell is a living organism, and like all living organism, they react to environmental changes. When heat is too much, chemicals are released that trigger action. Just like how when you put your hand in flames and it immediately draws back. Yep! that type of reaction. No conscious decisions are need.

I don't need this long story, as this doesn't address my point.

The fusion of the 22 autosomes and X-Y chromosome where each chromosome knows exactly which one to align and fuse with is my point.

Simple. Each molecule on each strand of the chromosome is arranged such that it can only 'bond' with a specific type of molecule. molecules arranged on the DNA are the nucleotides, and each DNA molecule comprises two complementary strands. There is the husband strand and the wife strand- for simplicity.

If not a goat won't give birth to abnormal foetus when a man slept with it.

fertilization will never happen.

Yes! The instructions in their DNA are not compatible. Reason abnormal foetus will be delivered. But embryo will form.

fertilization will not happen.

The very DNA sequences is the instructions which tell each DNA how many times to replicate and when to stop replicating. All these instructions are programmed into the DNA.So when a goat and human DNA come together the instructions will be distorted.

Remember, if this are just ordinary chemical reaction carried out by unconscious living cells there will always be a problem.

Fertilization does not happen!

You don't even need lab to know a human sperm cell can fertilised goat egg but the outcome will be very terrible.

Fertilization does not happen!

They do!

because you just agreed above that egg releases a chemical which the sperm cell will decode.

Is that not sending and receiving signal?

hmmmm

The maker of any product has just one thing to do with his invention:
Provide a manual to guide the user so as make the best use of the product not mishandle or damage it.
So the only way a manufacturer can prove he's the inventor is through the information found in the instructional guidebook, if it works well then there's no need doubting his authenticity!

Emusan:


Which shows they received what their reacting to.

If you call being in the same environment as a chemical receiving.

But the instructions are coded in there.

I don't see chemicals reacting as instruction or coding.

Who out them together?

Nobody I am aware of.

Very nice!

Which means the sperm has ability to decode and that instructions are within its own cell.

Again chemicals reacting is neither a code or instructions.

It didn't and I didn't argue against the chemical nature.

You started with an analogy of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Don't forget!

So chemical nature of DNA has instructions within themselves to carry out all the activities which many agree to be PROGRAMMED.

Seems like you are. It feels like you are arguing that these are not chemicals reacting that they are obeying something outside of their nature to react to one another.

Who are the many that agree they are programmed?

You agree that a code or instructions arose from that.

I dunno what you think I agreed to. What I meant was if you are calling these reactions a code or programming then I can see why, that is a way to understand it even though that is not what is actually happening.

So you haven't heard a goat given birth to abnormal foetus before with something like human head or face?

What caused it?

Those are congenital birth defects, they happen from time to time in all species. Even humans give birth to deformed babies that have animal like features, that doesn't mean it was an animal's sperm that fertilised the ovum inside the human mother.

There are a number of causes: disease, harmful chemicals, genetic mutations, inherited deleterious passive traits that suddenly became dominant, etc.

Not at all! That's exactly what it is. It's a code and instructions.

because, if you have Hydrogen and oxygen coming together to become water without input of an intelligent being and during the process the water supposed to fill a bucket and cup. These two elements know when to produce a new one to produce water and STOP producing a new one when the bucket was full and move to the position of the cup and did the same thing. Then you'll understand it's beyond just ordinary chemical reaction.

No, it's not a code or instructions even if it appears that way especially when the chromosomes are depicted as in the attached picture. Except those letters are just representations for the corresponding chemicals. Adenine (A), Cytosine (C), Guanine (G), and thymine (T), Adenine pairs with thymine, and cytosine pairs with guanine. It is the sequence of these that forms DNA, these are chemicals not code no matter how it looks like code.

All the water we see in nature was not formed in a lab, it formed naturally and stops forming when it runs out of reactants. Same with DNA, it won't contine to form anything when it runs out of reactants.