Ologbo147:
Do you still have access to the paper? Even the one that buttresses same for Ughoton that is the spelling, not the one you wrote up there.

If I can access the materials, I don’t have any issue . I am just against making claims that one cannot back up with proof.

If I am to say it out tomorrow, that Agenebode and Ughoton are Yoruba named, I have to be able to provide the sources you provided here to back it up else no one will take me serious from the academic community.

I would need it, thank you

Ugbodumila is one of the over 100Anioma towns, and it is only that community in that axis of a stretch of 6000 km square, that speak Yoruba. They migrated there independently, I don’t really know how they share border with Ondo state or if they share border with her, Ondo is next door neighbor to Edo and I know Ondo certainly borders Delta state too.

If they say they migrated from Owo according to their migration tales, I don’t think it is out of place migration from Owo to Benin then to Delta, or from Ondo to Delta whichever route they took. Their language would certainly be akin to the people of Owo regardless of where they now settle. In that same Anioma, a Bini dialect with about 90 percent intelligibility rate with the one spoken in Edo south is spoken, (oza nogogo), would I now say because Oza- nogogo speak Bini, then the whole of Anioma must have spoken Bini in time past.

Ugbodumila speaking Yoruba is one borne out of migration from their parent stock to now settle in the midst of strange groups, and nothing more

I don't have access to the paper but I carry such information in my head permanently but you are free to disbelieve me. I am sorry for the slight mistake in spelling the Edoid Ogotun but it is the same as the Yoruba one. Joseph is Yusuf and Joshua is Yashua. Lamurudu is Nimrod. It is the language of the pronounces that differs.
The Olukumi people are around five communities but Ugbodumila is the biggest. They are cut off from other Yoruba people by Edoid groups and obviously they were a part of the old Benin empire since even Akure and some Ekiti were part too or are you debating that?. The Olukumi are not small in population or achievement. Only that their place was not developed into a city and they are scattered as a result. They speak both Yoruba and Igbo What you need to know is that it was impossible to administer the Benin empire with Edo language. That is not at all possible. You might want to say the capital spoke Edo and Yoruba but you would be wrong. Edo speaking in the capital started only after the decline of the empire and that is the minimum that should be expected. I am only fighting this battle to set the records straight because if something is A it will be wrong to describe it for posterity as B That is the issue. Focus on propagating the new Benin and not on reinventing or rewriting history

Stoplying:

Still no evidence!
Benin empire which was known for warfare, you believe a subject of the baale of Ibadan was about to take over Benin empire 🤣
Lawani, we have talked before, many years ago, you have not changed, you are still dvmb and f**lish
Even the British describe Benin as a kingdom which terrifies its neighbours!

You are not well brought up at all. The British did not know the Benin empire at all because when the British became a force in West Africa, Benin was under Akure or so

lawani:


You are not well brought up at all. The British did not know the Benin empire at all because when the British became a force in West Africa, Benin was under Akure or so

if I ask you to provide evidence now for this, you would say you don’t have access to it, that you just carry the information in your head, I am beginning to think Lawani is Olu but is okay, you appear to be a comedian as you bring each of your post out

lawani:


I don't have access to the paper but I carry such information in my head permanently but you are free to disbelieve me. I am sorry for the slight mistake in spelling the Edoid Ogotun but it is the same as the Yoruba one. Joseph is Yusuf and Joshua is Yashua. Lamurudu is Nimrod. It is the language of the pronounces that differs.
The Olukumi people are around five communities but Ugbodumila is the biggest. They are cut off from other Yoruba people by Edoid groups and obviously they were a part of the old Benin empire since even Akure and some Ekiti were part too or are you debating that?. The Olukumi are not small in population or achievement. Only that their place was not developed into a city and they are scattered as a result. They speak both Yoruba and Igbo What you need to know is that it was impossible to administer the Benin empire with Edo language. That is not at all possible. You might want to say the capital spoke Edo and Yoruba but you would be wrong. Edo speaking in the capital started only after the decline of the empire and that is the minimum that should be expected. I am only fighting this battle to set the records straight because if something is A it will be wrong to describe it for posterity as B That is the issue. Focus on propagating the new Benin and not on reinventing or rewriting history

please I would disbelieve you, Osadebe is not Osadebawmen because they are similar, they cannot be more than 100,000 that is only a fraction when compared to the Anioma population That is over 2 million

What you should be canvassing for is that the Oba and the capital people also spoke Yoruba, if at all or if any,I would reluctantly agree but that Bini was well known a language and was spoken by the Oba and the people in the Capital is not in doubt. I am not wrong, the Olu of Itsekiri goes by the Ogiame tsuo and the word is a direct relic from Benin or Edo That’s an undiluted proof, how did he get it since he was a son of the Oba. And they never spoke Bini or Edo

Ologbo147:
please I would disbelieve you, Osadebe is not Osadebawmen because they are similar, they cannot be more than 100,000 that is only a fraction when compared to the Anioma population That is over 2 million

What you should be canvassing for is that the Oba and the capital people also spoke Yoruba, if at all or if any,I would reluctantly agree but that Bini was well known a language and was spoken by the Oba and the people in the Capital is not in doubt. I am not wrong, the Olu of Itsekiri goes by the Ogiame tsuo and the word is a direct relic from Benin or Edo That’s an undiluted proof, how did he get it since he was a son of the Oba. And they never spoke Bini or Edo

100,000 is not small though I don't know their population. Some of the most successful sovereign nations on a per Capita basis are not up to that

lawani:


100,000 is not small though I don't know their population. Some of the most successful sovereign nations on a per Capita basis are not up to that

I have not said it is small. I never said it was up to, I gave an “at best” situation. The fact that they speak Yoruba does not strengthen your point that Yoruba was spoken in the empire. They already gave their pedigree in their historical tales, so what else do you need. That is the sole reason why they speak Yoruba out of the over 2 million people in the Anioma area. They migrated there, simple and short

Ologbo147:
I have not said it is small. I never said it was up to, I gave an “at best” situation. The fact that they speak Yoruba does not strengthen your point that Yoruba was spoken in the empire. They already gave their pedigree in their historical tales, so what else do you need. That is the sole reason why they speak Yoruba out of the over 2 million people in the Anioma area. They migrated there, simple and short

There are also some in the same Anioma who claim to have migrated from Ilesa, some are Igalas too. What can not be denied is they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire. When they got there or how I don't know and I choose to believe them. The Owa Atakunmosa of Ijesa spent over sixty years abroad before mounting the throne and he must have gone through Benin territory. The Edoid people surrounding Benin like the Afemai are also Yoruba people who all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names. Even Benin people bear Yoruba names. So it is clear that the Edo or current Benin language was a minor language in the Benin empire and could not have possibly been the language of government business. It is also not the number one Edoid language. I am not going to argue with anybody about their origin

lawani:


There are also some in the same Anioma who claim to have migrated from Ilesa, some are Igalas too. What can not be denied is they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire. When they got there or how I don't know and I choose to believe them. The Owa Atakunmosa of Ijesa spent over sixty years abroad before mounting the throne and he must have gone through Benin territory. The Edoid people surrounding Benin like the Afemai are also Yoruba people who all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names. Even Benin people bear Yoruba names. So it is clear that the Edo or current Benin language was a minor language in the Benin empire and could not have possibly been the language of government business. It is also not the number one Edoid language. I am not going to argue with anybody about their origin

What do you mean they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire, would they not still migrate there, if there was no empire? Besides this is the map of Nigeria, we are not certain they got in through Bini directly, they might have entered Delta directly through Ondo. What does it matter if some Igalas are in Delta, some are in Edo too. Some in Nsukka. Kogi also has a tiny border with Delta.

The Edoid people surrounding Bini are not the Afemai, the Afemai are to the north, you will get to the north of Benin before you find the Esans, then the north of Esan before you get the Afemai,

Nobody is fanning the embers of superiority, Edo south which is 95 percent Bini territory is what is synonymous with the Kingdom, and that is the [b][/b]language spoken by the capital city today, and that is the language that was spoken in History by the Oba, the capital city, and the other surrounding Bini communities.

In as much as we have similarities as group of Edo languages, we also have our differences, the Bini would call king Ogie, The Esans Would call it Ojie, the Urhobos would call it Ovie, that is an undeniable proof that it is a Bini relic that was bestowed on the Itsekiri monarch.

If number one Edo language to you means the Language spoken by the Oba and the capital city and surrounding communities, then it is

The Afemai people do not all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names, it is only those at the periphery or frontier areas that speak Yoruba alongside with their first Afemai language. It is a norm anywhere in the world, that frontier areas or border areas are bilingual, an Etsako man whose community does not border any Yoruba community, would not speak Yoruba alongside with his Etsako and would also have no need for a Yoruba name. The same with an Owan man,

Any Edo man from whichever divide either Bini, Esan, Owan Etsako , etc that speak Yoruba or bear Yoruba names is either the mother is Yoruba, or the person grew up in Yoruba land, or his community in Edo state directly borders yoruba land. If these three are absent, it is not possible for an Edo man from whichever divide to bear Yoruba names or speak Yoruba.
And at most the people that bear these Yoruba names from the general Edoid (I mean Bini, Esan, Etsako, Owan and Akoko Edo, with most of them being from Akoko Edo because they have a large border with yoruba)are not more than 15 to 20 percent of the total population

Ologbo147:
What do you mean they got there through the territory of the old Benin empire, would they not still migrate there, if there was no empire? Besides this is the map of Nigeria, we are not certain they got in through Bini directly, they might have entered Delta directly through Ondo. What does it matter if some Igalas are in Delta, some are in Edo too. Some in Nsukka. Kogi also has a tiny border with Delta.

The Edoid people surrounding Bini are not the Afemai, the Afemai are to the north, you will get to the north of Benin before you find the Esans, then the north of Esan before you get the Afemai,

Nobody is fanning the embers of superiority, Edo south which is 95 percent Bini territory is what is synonymous with the Kingdom, and that is the [b][/b]language spoken by the capital city today, and that is the language that was spoken in History by the Oba, the capital city, and the other surrounding Bini communities.

In as much as we have similarities as group of Edo languages, we also have our differences, the Bini would call king Ogie, The Esans Would call it Ojie, the Urhobos would call it Ovie, that is an undeniable proof that it is a Bini relic that was bestowed on the Itsekiri monarch.

If number one Edo language to you means the Language spoken by the Oba and the capital city and surrounding communities, then it is

The Afemai people do not all speak Yoruba and bear Yoruba names, it is only those at the periphery or frontier areas that speak Yoruba alongside with their first Afemai language. It is a norm anywhere in the world, that frontier areas or border areas are bilingual, an Etsako man whose community does not border any Yoruba community, would not speak Yoruba alongside with his Etsako and would also have no need for a Yoruba name. The same with an Owan man,

Any Edo man from whichever divide either Bini, Esan, Owan Etsako , etc that speak Yoruba or bear Yoruba names is either the mother is Yoruba, or the person grew up in Yoruba land, or his community in Edo state directly borders yoruba land. If these three are absent, it is not possible for an Edo man from whichever divide to bear Yoruba names or speak Yoruba.
And at most the people that bear these Yoruba names from the general Edoid (I mean Bini, Esan, Etsako, Owan and Akoko Edo, with most of them being from Akoko Edo because they have a large border with yoruba)are not more than 15 to 20 percent of the total population

Most Afemmai that I know also see themselves as Yoruba despite also being Afemmai but it may not be all Afemmai of course. You can be any culture you are used to that you grew up with. What I mean is that Benin bear Yoruba names while Yoruba don't bear Benin names. Then Yoruba is the biggest or number one Yoruboid language while Edo is not the number one or even number two Edoid language. You understand?.

What I mean about Olukumi is that their territory is cut off from other Yoruba by Edoid territory

lawani:


Most Afemmai that I know also see themselves as Yoruba despite also being Afemmai but it may not be all Afemmai of course. You can be any culture you are used to that you grew up with. What I mean is that Benin bear Yoruba names while Yoruba don't bear Benin names. Then Yoruba is the biggest or number one Yoruboid language while Edo is not the number one or even number two Edoid language. You understand?.

the most you know are a fraction and we can’t judge based on that, maybe it is to curry Favour from you, majority of Afenmai people are in Edo state. And most of them might be Akoko Edo or Owan.

What do you mean Yoruba don’t bear Bini names, go to Akure, Idoani and see Bini names, go and see Bini names like Osamuyi etc and they are Yorubas. Have you heard of the term Edo’ne’khue

I still do not understand what you mean by number 2 or number one Edoid language, most of these Edoid languages in Edoid state were dialects of Bini and so would have been more intelligible to Bini more than this. I have shown you an excerpt which posit that Esan till today is still a dialect of Bini


A minute part of Edoid bearing Yoruba names or speaking Yoruba today is because we border Yoruba people, if Edoid was located around rivers state, no Edoid would have been speaking Yoruba today

@lawani is a madman, he just keeps telling complete nonsense. He makes up stories on the go. He doesn't understand the concept of "proving your claim". With him it is just his mouth, he claims he can see what happened one thousand years ago 🤣
I don't have time to waste by talking to a crazy person who just keeps claiming complete rubbish, and when you ask for evidence, he insults you and claims even more unsubstantiated and crazy rubbish.
The guy needs to be in a mental asylum.

Let me now lecture you all on the etymology of the Yoruba word Oba which you ignorantly claim was copied by us from Benin. Benin is the only Edoid settlement using the title Oba but every unlettered member of all Yoruba towns from Ghana to Delta state to Jebba in Niger state and Ilorin call their monarch Oba and any other appellation is just a style. A ten year old know the meaning of the word. If Benin is the only Edo town using the word, can you see how condescending you sound when saying the Yoruba copied the Benin?. A praise name of Alaafin Sango is Oba ko so meanng the King did not hang himself. In Ife all their prncipal chiefs are called Oba like Obaloran, Obalufe, Obajio and others. Obatala is known as Obarisa king of the orisas. It s also an academic fact that almost half of Yoruba words are Kemitic Egyptian and I found out on my own via Google that it is an Egyptian word. Ba of Osiris mean the spirit that presides over Osiris . Check it yourself and that is according to the Yoruba saying Oba ba Lori ohun gbogbo. The King presides over everything according to the definition I found on Google. White Brazilians who are Yoruba know the word. Do you think they learnt it from Benin?. Those are the issues

Ologbo147:
the most you know are a fraction and we can’t judge based on that, maybe it is to curry Favour from you, majority of Afenmai people are in Edo state. And most of them might be Akoko Edo or Owan.

What do you mean Yoruba don’t bear Bini names, go to Akure, Idoani and see Bini names, go and see Bini names like Osamuyi etc and they are Yorubas. Have you heard of the term Edo’ne’khue

I still do not understand what you mean by number 2 or number one Edoid language, most of these Edoid languages in Edoid state were dialects of Bini and so would have been more intelligible to Bini more than this. I have shown you an excerpt which posit that Esan till today is still a dialect of Bini


A minute part of Edoid bearing Yoruba names or speaking Yoruba today is because we border Yoruba people, if Edoid was located around rivers state, no Edoid would have been speaking Yoruba today

Edo is not a dialect of Urhobo nor is Yoruba a dialect of the Yoruboid language in Enugu state. Igala is more of a dialect of Yoruba than Benin language is a dialect of Urhobo. By number one I mean the language with the highest number of speakers. I am sure Urhobo and Esan are more than Benin. Osamuyi is a Yoruba name and there are many similar Yoruba names but it can be possible to find Yoruba bearing Benin names, I have however never heard of any. Igala for instance have been described by linguists as varying only dialectically from Yoruba while no Edoid language has ever been described as a dialect of Benin language to my knowledge by linguists. Edonekhue are the Akure people from Benin.

You are right. The Edoid people of say Bayelsa state like Good luck Jonathan's people have nothing at all to do with the Benin empire which was a Yoruba empire. Those were Edoid cultures not influenced by the Yoruba at all. Why not say Benin is a dialect of Esan?. Once again it may be true but no linguists have described it like that that I know of. They describe them as separate languages

Stoplying:
@lawani is a madman, he just keeps telling complete nonsense. He makes up stories on the go. He doesn't understand the concept of "proving your claim". With him it is just his mouth, he claims he can see what happened one thousand years ago 🤣
I don't have time to waste by talking to a crazy person who just keeps claiming complete rubbish, and when you ask for evidence, he insults you and claims even more unsubstantiated and crazy rubbish.
The guy needs to be in a mental asylum.

Your father, ancestors are mad people. Your descendants will also be mad people

lawani:


Edo is not a dialect of Urhobo nor is Yoruba a dialect of the Yoruboid language in Enugu state. Igala is more of a dialect of Yoruba than Benin language is a dialect of Urhobo. By number one I mean the language with the highest number of speakers. I am sure Urhobo and Esan are more than Benin. Osamuyi is a Yoruba name and there are many similar Yoruba names but it can be possible to find Yoruba bearing Benin names, I have however never heard of any. Igala for instance have been described by linguists as varying only dialectically from Yoruba while no Edoid language has ever been described as a dialect of Benin language to my knowledge by linguists. Edonekhue are the Akure people from Benin.

You are right. The Edoid people of say Bayelsa state like Good luck Jonathan's people have nothing at all to do with the Benin empire which was a Yoruba empire. Those were Edoid cultures not influenced by the Yoruba at all. Why not say Benin is a dialect of Esan?. Once again it may be true but no linguists have described it like that that I know of. They describe them as separate languages

the difference of Esan and Bini is more of a cultural thing than a language thing. When you add the number of Esan and Bini that are members of the same language, they are more than the Urhobos

I did not write that excerpt I gave to you, moreover that is not the meat of the matter, as what I am driving at is that Esan and Bini speak the same language, if you talking strictly about language and number of speakers, you have to add the Esan and Bini population together

Ologbo147:
the difference of Esan and Bini is more of a cultural thing than a language thing. When you add the number of Esan and Bini that are members of the same language, they are more than the Urhobos

I did not write that excerpt I gave to you, moreover that is not the meat of the matter, as what I am driving at is that Esan and Bini speak the same language, if you talking strictly about language and number of speakers, you have to add the Esan and Bini population together

I have actually heard somebody make a similar claim online but not a linguist. I believe it is possibly true just the same way Urhobo and one other language that I can't remember the name are said to be basically thesame people who identify differently.

lawani:


I have actually heard somebody make a similar claim online but not a linguist. I believe it is possibly true just the same way Urhobo and one other language that I can't remember the name are said to be basically thesame people who identify differently.

what i sent to you was the Bini dictionary written in 1937 by Hans melzian it is not a claim, she actually studied them

Ologbo147:
what i sent to you was the Bini dictionary written in 1937 by Hans melzian it is not a claim, she actually studied them

Yes a Benin person will say an Esan is speaking wrong Benin while Esan will say Benin is speaking wrong Esan, therefore the difference is there which came as a result of long years of social isolation. A while ago, a Benin man told me the meaning of Edokpolor and the meaning is right in Yoruba. Five thousand years ago YEAI was one language and maybe the most undiluted or long standing portion of it is Akokoid and Edoid followed by Yoruboid then Igboid. I think the Edo language is more tonal or accented than Yoruba. Yoruba have five tones with three more pronounced while Edo has more than three well pronounced and the more tones a language has, the more relatively undisturbed it can be assumed to be. Only a tonal language can be easily spoken with talking drums. However all languages have been disturbed but Edo been more Southerly may have been less disturbed than Yoruba.

lawani:


Edo is not a dialect of Urhobo nor is Yoruba a dialect of the Yoruboid language in Enugu state. Igala is more of a dialect of Yoruba than Benin language is a dialect of Urhobo. By number one I mean the language with the highest number of speakers. I am sure Urhobo and Esan are more than Benin. Osamuyi is a Yoruba name and there are many similar Yoruba names but it can be possible to find Yoruba bearing Benin names, I have however never heard of any. Igala for instance have been described by linguists as varying only dialectically from Yoruba while no Edoid language has ever been described as a dialect of Benin language to my knowledge by linguists. Edonekhue are the Akure people from Benin.

You are right. The Edoid people of say Bayelsa state like Good luck Jonathan's people have nothing at all to do with the Benin empire which was a Yoruba empire. Those were Edoid cultures not influenced by the Yoruba at all. Why not say Benin is a dialect of Esan?. Once again it may be true but no linguists have described it like that that I know of. They describe them as separate languages

that is Bradbury’ work . Edo proper is Bini, it was written in 1952.


And besides I would want to know where you got the information that Esans are more than the Binis. even the Urhobos, there is no proof that they are more than the Binis even though I believe they(the Urhobos now are slightly more. I was eating when you wrote this, I could not respond to you properly .

Our musicians in Bini go to Esan land, aside Bini territory to perform.that is because we speak related dialect. I have not seen them go to Etsako or Urhobo to perform. Except maybe that particular party, they have many Bini speakers there.

And their musicians come Into perform in our land too. And it very easy for the Esan people to assimilate in Benin or to learn the Bini dialect. We have many of them in our music and movie industry because we speak related dialects.

There are many collaborations in Movies that has been done by the Bini movie industry, whereby the Esans were allowed to speak their dialects and Bini and Esan people watching such movie have understanding of each of these dialects to al large extent. But I have never seen one of Bini and Etsako or Bini and Urhobo even though they are both Edoid, that should tell you she is not drunk or Bradbury is not drunk.

Is it the Music industry, there have been collabo by Esan and Bini artists or musicians live on stage, whereby people were present in such events and there was no raise of an eyebrow. But I have not seen a Bini and an Urhobo musician or a Bini and an Etsako musician collabo on stage even though they are both Edoid languages.

Lastly there is a saying in Benin, Edo na ma ze se ore Esan which directly translates to mean Benin not spoken well is Esan. Which further portends to mean that it is intelligible but not sweet or palatable to the Bini’s man ear. That is not how he expects his Edo to be

Osamuyimen, the short form is Osamuyi. is a Bini name, it means the lord has given me honour. Even Odion etc go to Owo, There are Bini people in Ondo state and it is not news. Go to Akure, Idoani, Igbora oke etc . And Irele and ose Lgas. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo. Even in Okelusen which is now in Ondo state. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo.

If they spoke Edo, as we have confirmed it was spoken, it was never a Yoruba empire

Let me also chip in that the Edo word Ogie to mean King is not much different from the Yoruba word Oga to mean boss. Digging deep, most words of the YEAI are interlinked.

lawani:
Let me also chip in that the Edo word Ogie to mean King is not much different from the Yoruba word Oga to mean boss. Digging deep, most words of the YEAI are interlinked.

it is not my brother, you are not a linguist, don’t be confused, you have no proof

Ologbo147:
that is Bradbury’ work . Edo proper is Bini, it was written in 1952.


And besides I would want to know where you got the information that Esans are more than the Binis. even the Urhobos, there is no proof that they are more than the Binis even though I believe they(the Urhobos now are slightly more. I was eating when you wrote this, I could not respond to you properly .

Our musicians in Bini go to Esan land, aside Bini territory to perform.that is because we speak related dialect. I have not seen them go to Etsako or Urhobo to perform. Except maybe that particular party, they have many Bini speakers there.

And their musicians come Into perform in our land too. And it very easy for the Esan people to assimilate in Benin or to learn the Bini dialect. We have many of them in our music and movie industry because we speak related dialects.

There are many collaborations in Movies that has been done by the Bini movie industry, whereby the Esans were allowed to speak their dialects and Bini and Esan people watching such movie have understanding of each of these dialects to al large extent. But I have never seen one of Bini and Etsako or Bini and Urhobo even though they are both Edoid, that should tell you she is not drunk or Bradbury is not drunk.

Is it the Music industry, there have been collabo by Esan and Bini artists or musicians live on stage, whereby people were present in such events and there was no raise of an eyebrow. But I have not seen a Bini and an Urhobo musician or a Bini and an Etsako musician collabo on stage even though they are both Edoid languages.

Lastly there is a saying in Benin, Edo na ma ze se ore Esan which directly translates to mean Benin not spoken well is Esan. Which further portends to mean that it is intelligible but not sweet or palatable to the Bini’s man ear. That is not how he expects his Edo to be

Osamuyimen, the short form is Osamuyi. is a Bini name, it means the lord has given me honour. Even Odion etc go to Owo, There are Bini people in Ondo state and it is not news. Go to Akure, Idoani, Igbora oke etc . And Irele and ose Lgas. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo. Even in Okelusen which is now in Ondo state. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo.

If they spoke Edo, as we have confirmed it was spoken, it was never a Yoruba empire

Proto Edoid settlements have been all over the place for thousands of years, maybe for ten thousand years but they were not Benin settlements. There is a quarter in Ido Ani speaking an Edoid language and maybe in the past they used to be larger than Benin city.

Ologbo147:
it is not my brother, you are not a linguist, don’t be confused, you have no proof

It just came to my head now. It can be true because all these languages descend from the same ancestor overtime

lawani:


Proto Edoid settlements have been all over the place for thousands of years, maybe for ten thousand years but they were not Benin settlements. There is a quarter in Ido Ani speaking an Edoid language and maybe in the past they used to be larger than Benin city.

there is nothing like that my brother, they speak a corrupt version of Bini, their oral traditions states that those were actual migrations from Bini during the reign of the present dynasty. People were always leaving the city in droves, Ido-ani got thier fair share. Many of them still come to Bini today and Identify as such because their language and culture is more akin to Edo proper.

Also many of those settlements in ondo state actually came up when the Binis were fleeing the city in droves during the invasion of 1897 and many did not come back until the 1930s and 40s. Many more remained. It is not news, that is not proto-Edoid, that is Bini

Even in Akure and Ekiti, there were trade parties and many soldiers remained.

lawani:


It just came to my head now. It can be true because all these languages descend from the same ancestor overtime

the one I have heard from linguist is the Yoruba Oye which means chief, the Igbo -Eze, the Edoid Ogie/Ovie/Ojie and the Idoma -Oche. This is more likely than the other one

Ologbo147:
there is nothing like that my brother, they speak a corrupt version of Bini, their oral traditions states that those were actual migrations from Bini during the reign of the present dynasty. People were always leaving the city in droves, Ido-ani got thier fair share. Many of them still come to Bini today and Identify as such because their language and culture is more akin to Edo proper.

Also many of those settlements in ondo state actually came up when the Binis were fleeing the city in droves during the invasion of 1897 and many did not come back until the 1930s and 40s. Many more remained. It is not news, that is not proto-Edoid, that is Bini

Even in Akure and Ekiti, there were trade parties and many soldiers remained.

If so it means that one is a recent migration but there are Edoid groups in the South west that were not settled from Benin just like Urhobo was not settled from Benin. People are always moving around. Nowadays, people have moved into Benin far more than Benin people have moved to other places.

Ologbo147:
the one I have heard from linguist is the Yoruba Oye which means chief, the Igbo -Eze, the Edoid Ogie/Ovie/Ojie and the Idoma -Oche. This is more likely than the other one

Oga- Boss, Ogie- King is more similar than all your examples. Boss and King mean basically the same thing but your Ogie in Warri is obviously not from Yoruba speakers because Yoruba will never describe a King as Oga as it would be disrespectful. However Ogaomi will mean boss of the riverrine area similar to Ogieami that you said means King of the riverrine area. It is just to show that all YEAI became different by slowly drifting apart and acquiring new words and characteristics along the way.

lawani:


Oga- Boss, Ogie- King is more similar than all your examples. Boss and King mean basically the same thing but your Ogie in Warri is obviously not from Yoruba speakers because Yoruba will never describe a King as Oga as it would be disrespectful. However Ogaomi will mean boss of the riverrine area similar to Ogieami that you said means King of the riverrine area. It is just to show that all YEAI became different by slowly drifting apart and acquiring new words and characteristics along the way.

my brother I know where you are going to, it is not the same, I am telling you from linguist perspective not your own logical perspective. Language does not evolve the way you feel it should. It is Ogie/Ovie/Ojie by the Edoid. Oye by the Yorubas, Oche and Eze by the Igbos, even though that of the Igbos has drifted slightly away

it is the middle pronunciations that matters the most, Ogiame- not Ogieami

Boss and King are starkly and essentially different

Oga That is even debatable might be from Ogaranya

Ologbo147:
that is Bradbury’ work . Edo proper is Bini, it was written in 1952.


And besides I would want to know where you got the information that Esans are more than the Binis. even the Urhobos, there is no proof that they are more than the Binis even though I believe they(the Urhobos now are slightly more. I was eating when you wrote this, I could not respond to you properly .

Our musicians in Bini go to Esan land, aside Bini territory to perform.that is because we speak related dialect. I have not seen them go to Etsako or Urhobo to perform. Except maybe that particular party, they have many Bini speakers there.

And their musicians come Into perform in our land too. And it very easy for the Esan people to assimilate in Benin or to learn the Bini dialect. We have many of them in our music and movie industry because we speak related dialects.

There are many collaborations in Movies that has been done by the Bini movie industry, whereby the Esans were allowed to speak their dialects and Bini and Esan people watching such movie have understanding of each of these dialects to al large extent. But I have never seen one of Bini and Etsako or Bini and Urhobo even though they are both Edoid, that should tell you she is not drunk or Bradbury is not drunk.

Is it the Music industry, there have been collabo by Esan and Bini artists or musicians live on stage, whereby people were present in such events and there was no raise of an eyebrow. But I have not seen a Bini and an Urhobo musician or a Bini and an Etsako musician collabo on stage even though they are both Edoid languages.

Lastly there is a saying in Benin, Edo na ma ze se ore Esan which directly translates to mean Benin not spoken well is Esan. Which further portends to mean that it is intelligible but not sweet or palatable to the Bini’s man ear. That is not how he expects his Edo to be

Osamuyimen, the short form is Osamuyi. is a Bini name, it means the lord has given me honour. Even Odion etc go to Owo, There are Bini people in Ondo state and it is not news. Go to Akure, Idoani, Igbora oke etc . And Irele and ose Lgas. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo. Even in Okelusen which is now in Ondo state. They still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo.

If they spoke Edo, as we have confirmed it was spoken, it was never a Yoruba empire

Obviously Esan and Benin drifted apart relatively recently just as must have happened to Isoko and Urhobo. They are more similar than say Nnewi and Abakaliki who are both Igbos. Osamuyi also means the deity has given me honor in Yoruba. Which language is it then?. No Yoruba will agree it is Benin language

Ologbo147:
my brother I know where you are going to, it is not the same, I am telling you from linguist perspective not your own logical perspective. Language does not evolve the way you feel it should. It is Ogie/Ovie/Ojie by the Edoid. Oye by the Yorubas, Oche and Eze by the Igbos, even though that of the Igbos has drifted slightly away

it is the middle pronunciations that matters the most, Ogiame- not Ogieami

Boss and King are starkly and essentially different

Oga That is even debatable might be from Ogaranya

Ogaranya does not fit. Eze is totally different from Ogie and Oga by pronunciation. I am not going anywhere. What I pointed out is already accepted by linguists. YEAI have the same parent stock, so the group members are cousins. It is not a matter of debate but they are not the same language any more but now and then you can unearth the vocabs of the ancestor language. Agbala in Yoruba is mgbala in Igbo. Giripa is Dimkpa and many others. How do you explain that?. Those are vocabs of a language spoken over five thousand years ago or more.

lawani:


If so it means that one is a recent migration but there are Edoid groups in the South west that were not settled from Benin just like Urhobo was not settled from Benin. People are always moving around. Nowadays, people have moved into Benin far more than Benin people have moved to other places.

a migration that happened before 1897, that’s far before the independence of Nigeria. The people would probably see the land as their own now. The migrations that would happen now in Benin would be one whereby one is conscious of their community because of the state of Origin and local government of origin consciousness in Nigeria today.

Even though you stay 30 years in Benin, you have a consciousness that you are not from Benin because of the state of origin, there are Hausas that have been here since the 1990s and late 1980s, they still visit their land intermittently with the consciousness of where they came from.

I gave two other suggestions which were ignored by you, of one whereby actual Bini people according to their history migrated to those areas,

And lastly the one of the trade party, you cannot really tell the one whose language is intelligible to Bini and the one that is not because you are not an Edo. It is for Edolites to go there and actually check if their dialects is intelligible to a great deal. There are actual Binis in Ondo state and it is not news. This is what Hans melzian has to say as it pertains to Binis in Ondo state

lawani:


Ogaranya does not fit. Eze is totally different from Ogie and Oga by pronunciation. I am not going anywhere. What I pointed out is already accepted by linguists. YEAI have the same parent stock, so the group members are cousins. It is not a matter of debate but they are not the same language any more but now and then you can unearth the vocabs of the ancestor language. Agbala in Yoruba is mgbala in Igbo. Giripa is Dimkpa and many others. How do you explain that?. Those are vocabs of a language spoken over five thousand years ago or more.

what about Oche and Oye. Please post any excerpts which buttresses your point that what you just thought of three minutes ago has been established by linguists.

If at all Oga matches Ogie what about Ojie and Ovie, or do you think the Bini Ogie is the standard of king in the Edoid.

How does Oga matches Ovie. How then does Oga match Ojie how then Does Oga match Oche or Oye. But when you pit Oye and Oche side by side with Ovie and Ojie. You see corelation among Niger -Benue Congo group of languages which has a common origin