Warning: I would want this thread to be as intelligent and informing as possible, so, I implore every respondent to eschew every irascibility, irrationality and illogicality and only make intelligent and informed contributions devoid of primordial sentiments and ethnic biases. Let’s try to come up with something that can actually serve as reference point for a sociological researcher and policy framers.

With the above foundation already laid and believing that every respondent to this thread will cooperate accordingly, let’s now go into the meat of this thread.

I posted a thread about the Southeast gathering lawyers to sue the Federal Government to demand the creation of a 6th state for the region and trillions of Naira lost since 1999 due to the imbalance and some responses to the thread left me scratching my head and cringing.

Comments like ”the whole of Southeast can fit into Kaduna twice”, ”Oyo state is bigger than the whole of Southeast”, kept reoccurring.

On a critical assessment of what such respondents meant, you could see that what they were referring to was the landmasses of the States they were comparing to the Southeast and not population.

This left me thinking and asking myself what should really determine the creation of states. Should state creation be determined by landmass even if you have about 10,000 people in the expanse landmass, or should it be determined by population density even if they are squeezed into a tiny land area?

I ask this question because most of those who expressed disagreement with the demands of the Southeast did not offer any intelligent or compelling argument against such disagreement but mostly shallow tribal slurs.

For context purposes and so we better understand what we are talking about, let’s cite instances/examples of countries (not states in a country) that have lesser landmass and population than every state in the Southeast but yet are countries with voting rights in the United Nations and nobody said “no, you can’t be a country because your country is not up to a county in the United States.”

1) Tuvalu: Tuvalu 🇹🇻 is country with a population slightly above 11,000 (by 2021 estimates) and a landmass of about 26sqm. For context, Ebonyi State is above 5000sqm in landmass.

2) Nauru: Nauru 🇳🇷 is a country with a landmass of about 21sqm

3) Malta: Malta 🇲🇹 is country with a landmass of about 316sqm

4) Liechtenstein: Liechtenstein 🇱🇮 is a country with about 160sqm

5) Seychelles: The Islands of Seychelles 🇸🇨 is made up of about 100,000 people (by March 2024 estimates) and a landmass of 455sqm.

And many more….

Now, above are examples of countries with less than 1000 kilometer square of landmass but are countries regardless. Nobody asked them not to be countries because they are not the size of Kogi, Borno, Oyo, Niger, Kaduna or Benue.

So, where did those that held that position get it from? What is their authority? What is their reason d’etre?

Shouldn’t state creation, like the creation of countries, be about addressing social ills?

Even in Nigeria, the creation of state has, historically, always been guided by the need to address a certain social ill especially the need to give minorities the right of self governance away from the bigger states where they were under the mercy of bigger ethnic group.

This was why Bayelsa was created from Rivers to give the Ijaws self governance over themselves.

It’s the reason a state like Ebonyi was created to give Abakaliki people self governance over the rest of Igbos who discriminated against them then.

Nasarawa was carved out of Plateau for this reason to give Muslims self governance over themselves away from Plateau that was predominantly Christian. And many more….

So, if historically the need to address social ill has majorly informed the creation of states in Nigeria, what is wrong if such consideration is brought to bear again by creating a 6th state for the Southeast to bring them up to par with other regions of the country which have 6 states each; except for Northwest that has 7.

Why should that injustice persist?

Penguin is a bird of reason!

Nlfpmod
Mynd44
Fergie001

Both population and landmass are important factors. Kano state population and land mass alone is more than the whole of south east. Having said that, the whole of South East should be a single state. But if the 5 states of South East should remain, states like kano should be divided into at least 10 states.

Both

Penguin2:
Warning: I would want this thread to be as intelligent and informing as possible, so, I implore every respondent to eschew every irascibility, irrationality and illogicality and only make intelligent and informed contributions devoid of primordial sentiments and ethnic biases. Let’s try to come up with something that can actually serve as reference point for a sociological researcher and policy framers.

With the above foundation already laid and believing that every respondent to this thread will cooperate accordingly, let’s now go into the meat of this thread.

I posted a thread about the Southeast gathering lawyers to sue the Federal Government to demand the creation of a 6th state for the region and trillions of Naira lost since 1999 due to the imbalance and some responses to the thread left me scratching my head and cringing.

Comments like the whole of Southeast can fit into Kaduna twice, Oyo state is bigger than the whole of Southeast, kept reoccurring.

On a critical assessment of what such respondents meant, you could see that what they were referring to was the landmasses of the States they were comparing to the Southeast and not population.

This left me thinking and asking myself what should really determine the creation of state. Should state creation be determined by landmass even if you have about 10,000 people in the expanse landmass, or should it be determined by population density even if they are squeezed into a tiny land area?

I ask this question because most of those who expressed disagreement with the demands of the Southeast did not offer any intelligent or compelling argument against such disagreement but mostly shallow tribal slurs.

Contest purposes and so we better understand what we are talking about, let’s cite instances/examples of countries (not states in a country) that have lesser landmass and population than every state in the Southeast but yet are countries with voting rights in the United Nations and nobody said “no, you can’t be a country because your country is not up to a county in the United States.”

1) Tuvalu: Tuvalu 🇹🇻 is country with a population slightly above 11,000 (by 2021 estimates) and a landmass of about 26sqm. For context, Ebonyi State is above 5000sqm in landmass.

2) Nauru: Nauru 🇳🇷 is a country with a landmass of about 21sqm

3) Malta: Malta 🇲🇹 is country with a landmass of about 316sqm

4) Liechtenstein: Liechtenstein 🇱🇮 is a country with about 160sqm

5) Seychelles: The Island of Seychelles 🇸🇨 is made up of about 100,000 people (by March 2024 estimates) and a landmass of 455sqm.

And many more….

Now, above are examples of countries with less than 1000 kilometer square of landmass but are countries regardless. Nobody asked not to be country because they are not the size of Kogi, Borno, Oyo, Niger, Kaduna or Benue.

So, where did those that held that position get it from? What is their authority? What is their reason d’etre?

Shouldn’t state creation, like the creation of countries, be about addressing social ills? Even in Nigeria, the creation of state has, historically, always been guided by the need to address a certain social ill especially the need to give minorities the right of self governance away from the bigger states where they were under the mercy of bigger ethnic group.

This was why Bayelsa was created from Rivers to give the Ijaws self governance over themselves.

It’s the reason a state like Ebonyi was created to give Abakaliki people self governance over the rest of Igbos who discriminated against them then.

Nasarawa was carved out of Plateau for this reason to give Muslims self governance over themselves away from Plateau that was predominantly Christian. And many more….

So, if historically the need to address social ill has majorly informed the creation of states in Nigeria, what is wrong if such consideration is brought to bear again by creating a 6th state for the Southeast to bring them up to par with other regions of the country which have 6 states each; except for Northwest that has 7.

Why should that injustice persist?

Penguin is a bird of reason!

Nlfpmod
Mynd44
Fergie001

I think economic power actually

IMO has almost the same GDP as the whole North East

Oyo is same size as South East but IMO and Anambra have bigger GDP than Oyo

Mistakes of the past should not be repeated. I'll say state creation should be based on a mix of land mass, population and contribution to national economy (wether GDP or IGR); All of these speak to the potential economic viability of the state! We should have states that can subsist without dependency on federation account.
If based on emotions (perceived social ills), we will have countless states in this federation; and rightly so!

Revenue generation and population. A landmass with not enough population and economic viability cannot stand as a state. SE should be given 6th state.

Richtaiwo:
Both population and landmass are important factors. Kano state population and land mass alone is more than the whole of south east. Having said that, the whole of South East should be a single state. But if the 5 states of South East should remain, states like kano should be divided into at least 10 states.

nlreserve:
Revenue generation and population. A landmass with not enough population and economic viability cannot stand as a state. SE should be given 6th state.

Based on the criteria above, 2 south east states should be merged.

Richtaiwo:

Based on the criteria above, 2 south east states should be merged.

No, the 5 states should be merged. Even the carved out igbos in other regions should be added back to SE as one state. That would be better.

nlreserve:
No, the 5 states should be merged. Even the carved out igbos in other regions should be added back to SE as one state. That would be better.

Excellent.

In all sincerity, the South East ought to have 3 States maximum and not 5 States,
If it's by landmass, Oyo,, Niger, Borno and some other States in the North are bigger than the 5 South East States put together. On what grounds should South East get additional State when some LGAs in Nigeria are bigger that 2 to 3 States in South East put together.
How many of the States in existence can function properly without allocations from FG?.

flokii:
In all sincerity, the South East ought to have 3 States maximum and not 5 States,
If it's by landmass, Oyo,, Niger, Borno and some other States in the North are bigger than the 5 South East States put together. On what grounds should South East get additional State when some LGAs in Nigeria are bigger that 2 to 3 States in South East put together.
How many of the States in existence can function properly without allocations from FG?.

How many state in your region can function without federal allocation largely oil money

Neither.

Productivity and sustainability should.

As a farmer or son about to go solo and stand alone, the emphasis is on what you can bring out of your land and not the size of your land.

If we restructure to state resource control,
can Kano feed itself and the 10 states you're talking about?

Richtaiwo:
Both population and landmass are important factors. Kano state population and land mass alone is more than the whole of south east. Having said that, the whole of South East should be a single state. But if the 5 states of South East should remain, states like kano should be divided into at least 10 states.

Are you wise at all? How can you create states based on landmass? Is like saying Niger Republic thats bigger than Nigeria should have more influence or voting right at the UN

flokii:
In all sincerity, the South East ought to have 3 States maximum and not 5 States,
If it's by landmass, Oyo,, Niger, Borno and some other States in the North are bigger than the 5 South East States put together. On what grounds should South East get additional State when some LGAs in Nigeria are bigger that 2 to 3 States in South East put together.
How many of the States in existence can function properly without allocations from FG?.

Richtaiwo:
Both population and landmass are important factors. Kano state population and land mass alone is more than the whole of south east. Having said that, the whole of South East should be a single state. But if the 5 states of South East should remain, states like kano should be divided into at least 10 states.

lol. Niger state is probably 15 times the size of Lagos but Lagos is 100 times more wealthier and more than 4 times more populated than Lagos. LAGOST IS THE SMALLEST STATE IN NIGERIA. Oyo state could be 6 times the whole of Lagos state. Lagos gdp triples the whole of SW and in population, Lagos is more populated than Ekiti, Ogun, ondo and osun put together.

State of Californias Gdp is twice that of the whole of Africa countries combined together. Hmmn

Nigeria is probably more than 50 times that of Israel but Israel with a population of of around 9 million has a Gdp bigger than that of big for nothing Nigeria.


Niger state is almost twice the size of the whole SE but the population of Anambra state alone is bigger than Niger state and Anambras Gdp is more than twice that of Niger state. The number of medical doctors in just one LGA in Anambra is higher than the whole of Niger state. And also note that the Ebonyi state which is the least developed but one of the fastest developing state in the SE is far more advanced than Niger in any development indices. Anambra or imo’s GDP ranked higher than that of oyo, boronu, niger etc with large land size.

Remember that it is not just by size and population but a strong human resource which no other region come close the east.

Lastly, we have seen in few days here that just the 5 states of the east are dominating in medicine, Engineering, computer scientist, Law etc than zones with even 6 states and 7 states. This is what we call Big for nothing. The power of DOT is beyond Naija.

nlreserve:
No, the 5 states should be merged. Even the carved out igbos in other regions should be added back to SE as one state. That would be better.

That means each geo political region should be merged into one state.
You people forgot that Igbos are a major tribe in Nigeria and must be accorded such respect and treated as equals to other region irrespective of our landmass.

Some important factors considered in State creation:

Cultural factors
Religion
Potential for sustainable Economic growth and development
Conflict Resolution

Population and land mass are not cogent factors for creating a State

For instance, Lagos is densely populated. What benefit would creating a new State from Lagos achieve? Same as Kano. In fact, population should be a reason not to create a new State.

But if a people acknowledge they are different and not well-represented in the affairs of the State, that is a viable reason for agitation for a State.

Looking at the South-East, Ebonyi has a relatively high population of Muslims, and some cultural differences, which may have influenced the State creation.

Presently, except people such as the Igalas, etc in the South East make a case for State creation, creating a State from a relatively homogeneous people would achieve nothing.

Productivity of the region should be the first priority in creating a new state

helinues:
Productivity of the region should be the first priority in creating a new state

Exactly! Nobody should be talking about creating states that are not viable at this point. Everyone should be pushing for resource control or regional government. Most states in Nigeria depend on Niger Delta oil to function and nobody should be thinking of creating more where there's no clearcut revenue generation plan.

SoNature:


Exactly! Nobody should be talking about creating states that are not viable at this point. Everyone should be pushing for resource control or regional government. Most states in Nigeria depend on Niger Delta oil to function and nobody should be thinking of creating more where there's no clearcut revenue generation plan.

Bayelsa state with around 3 m population, considering the monthly Oyel they are receiving, the state should have been developed far more than this but instead nothing changes

THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES SHOULD PROVE THEIR VIABILITY IN THEIR DEMAND FOR SEPARATE STATES.

NONE OF THE ABOVE.
POPULATION IS "IJAWMANIA".
LANDMASS IS RIFA-RUGA ISLAMISATION FULANISATION AND ANARCHY.
REFERENDUM OF THE PEOPLE IS MERIT.

If you give states 60 percent resource control and end federal allocation, the argument about criteria for states creation will die a natural death.
Nigeria is a so strange that viable states sponsor state with larger landmass from the federal allocation. A state claims large landmass but has a cute hunger and very unproductive.

Both

nlreserve:
No, the 5 states should be merged. Even the carved out igbos in other regions should be added back to SE as one state. That would be better.

How about merging all states in Nigeria so that the country can become a one state country?

How about that?

Armaggedon:
If you give states 60 percent resource control and end federal allocation, the argument about criteria for states creation will die a natural death.
Nigeria is a so strange that viable states sponsor state with larger landmass from the federal allocation. A state claims large landmass but has a cute hunger and very unproductive.

Do you know that I almost ran mad the day I heard that one of the criteria for distribution of FAAC allocation is Landmass.

I don’t know if there’s anywhere else in the world such a thing happens.

NaMe4:
Some important factors considered in State creation:

Cultural factors
Religion
Potential for sustainable Economic growth and development
Conflict Resolution

Population and land mass are not cogent factors for creating a State

For instance, Lagos is densely populated. What benefit would creating a new State from Lagos achieve? Same as Kano. In fact, population should be a reason not to create a new State.

But if a people acknowledge they are different and not well-represented in the affairs of the State, that is a viable reason for agitation for a State.

Looking at the South-East, Ebonyi has a relatively high population of Muslims, and some cultural differences, which may have influenced the State creation.

Presently, except people such as the Igalas, etc in the South East make a case for State creation, creating a State from a relatively homogeneous people would achieve nothing.

I like the factors you enunciated and I can say that those have majorly been the determinant for state creation in Nigeria with the examples of the states I already cited above.

But just to correct a false submission you, Ebonyi has no high population of Muslims; not at all.

There’s a community of Muslims in Afikpo but they don’t make up 5% of Ebonyi population if I’m being generous. But if I want to be harsh, I can tell you authoritatively that they don’t even constitute 1% of Ebonyi population.

So, how did you arrive at that erroneous assertion that “Ebonyi has high population of Muslims?”

Like I stated in the body of the thread, the major reason Ebonyi State was created is because people from other part of Igbos used to, mostly, look down on Ebonyi people who they used to address, derogatorily, as “ndi Abakaliki”. It was difficult for the Abakaliki man to get appointments in the Old Anambra or Enugu States. As they were neglected in appointments, so also were infrastructural developments in their part of the state neglected as well.

All this was because they were considered timid, uneducated, unexposed, crude and everything negative. Some Non-Ebonyi Igbos still harbour these sentiments about ‘Ndi Abakaliki’ but it’s not as strong as it was in the 1990s.

So, the above was the compelling argument that led to the creation of Ebonyi State and not that “high Muslim population” erroneous submission.

Meanwhile, just like the Ebonyi argument was compelling, so also is the argument for the creation of a 6th state for the region equally compelling because of the need to balance in visible imbalance in the way Nigeria is presently structured that is making us lose out both in revenue sharing and in political arrangements.

Both

Penguin2:

I like the factors you enunciated and I can say that those have majorly been the determinant for state creation in Nigeria with the examples of the states I already cited above.

But just to correct a false submission you, Ebonyi has no high population of Muslims; not at all.

There’s a community of Muslims in Afikpo but they don’t make up 5% of Ebonyi population if I’m being generous. But if I want to be harsh, I can tell you authoritatively that they don’t even constitute 1% of Ebonyi population.

So, how did you arrive at that erroneous assertion that “Ebonyi has high population of Muslims?”

Like I stated in the body of the thread, the major reason Ebonyi State was created is because people from other part of Igbos used to, mostly, look down on Ebonyi people who they used to address, derogatorily, as “ndi Abakaliki”. It was difficult for the Abakaliki man to get appointments in the Old Anambra or Enugu States. As they were neglected in appointments, so also were infrastructural developments in their part of the state neglected as well.

All this was because they were considered timid, uneducated, unexposed, crude and everything negative. Some Non-Ebonyi Igbos still harbour these sentiments about ‘Ndi Abakaliki’ but it’s not as strong as it was in the 1990s.

So, the above was the compelling argument that led to the creation of Ebonyi State and not that “high Muslim population” erroneous submission.

Meanwhile, just like the Ebonyi argument was compelling, so also is the argument for the creation of a 6th state for the region equally compelling because of the need to balance in visible imbalance in the way Nigeria is presently structured that is making us lose out both in revenue sharing and in political arrangements.

I used the word 'relatively'; when compared to other SE States. It could be less than 5% of the population as you stated.
From the reasons you gave, cultural factors and conflicts of interest were at play.

Richtaiwo:
Both population and landmass are important factors. Kano state population and land mass alone is more than the whole of south east. Having said that, the whole of South East should be a single state. But if the 5 states of South East should remain, states like kano should be divided into at least 10 states.

Another rubbish from the dustbin of a brain.
If you not that you've lost your sense of reasoning, how can Kano state with the approximate population of 15million be bigger than the entire south east of more than 30million?, abi u dey smoke Igbo ni?.
Even their land mass which stand 20,121km2 cannot be compared to south east which boast of more than 36k km2. My problem is even some low life fellows who are liking this senseless comments of his without any verification.