Abagworo, you said your mother is an Ikwere, but where is your father from?

odumchi: Abagworo, you said your mother is an Ikwere, but where is your father from?

Ameshi. Obodo girgiri.

Abagworo:




His post is as clear as day. Let me summarize it for you.

1. His father is an Eze or traditional ruler, hence he is knowledgeable about his tradition.

2. Ikwerre has similar language and roots as Igbo but has attained ethnic independence.

3. Igbos are generally more intelligent than an average Nigerian.

4. Much of the igbo-Ikwerre misunderstanding is rooted in the discovery and exploration of oil.

Well,his post just like i said before,reeks of ignorance.
Let me address those his points you summarised.

Point 1: maybe,but you can only compare two things,when you know them both well. And from his post,he seems to know next to nothing about the great igbo nation,hence he is ill equiped for this discussion.

Point 2: what exactly do you mean by' igbo' in that context? Cos i will have you know that there is no universal igbo language, 'igbo nzugbe' aka central igbo is but an artificial construct,it's nobody's dialect. You can't compare ikwerre with igbo nzugbe, you can only compare it with other igbo dialects like enuani,ngwa,asa,ndoki,etche,izzi,aro,idemili,awka,nkanu,udi,nsukka,etc.

Point 3: You don't want to attract dayo and co to this thread,do you?

Point 4: maybe or maybe not, that's their cup of tea,oil will one day finish. Agbachakwa egwu,ona na ukwu.

Abagworo:

Ameshi. Obodo girgiri.

Is ameshi in ogwuta,cos you once said that you are from ogwuta.

pazienza:

Well,his post just like i said before,reeks of ignorance.
Let me address those his points you summarised.

Point 1: maybe,but you can only compare two things,when you know them both well. And from his post,he seems to know next to nothing about the great igbo nation,hence he is ill equiped for this discussion.

Point 2: what exactly do you mean by' igbo' in that context? Cos i will have you know that there is no universal igbo language, 'igbo nzugbe' aka central igbo is but an artificial construct,it's nobody's dialect. You can't compare ikwerre with igbo nzugbe, you can only compare it with other igbo dialects like enuani,ngwa,asa,ndoki,etche,izzi,aro,idemili,awka,nkanu,udi,nsukka,etc.

Point 3: You don't want to attract dayo and co to this thread,do you?

Point 4: maybe or maybe not, that's their cup of tea,oil will one day finish. Agbachakwa egwu,ona na ukwu.

I agree with you that one needs to have knowledge of 2 things before comparing. So I'll face your points 2 to 4.

Point 2. Since the Nigerian constitution recognized Ikwerre as different, the others remain in the Igbo fold until otherwise notified or each unit achieves independence.

Point 3. I'm not restricting anyone from making useful contributions but I prefer response from Igbo and Ikwerre.

Point 4. The effects of oil has mellowed down and oil has been discovered deep inside Igboland.


And your question about Oguta. The answer is yes. Oguta is Ameshi just like Inyi. My problem with this thread earlier was the lie that Ikwerre originated from ancient Benin Kingdom. Oguta has history of Benin origin which can be substantiated with traces of culture and names like Adizua(Adesuwa) , Iyasara(Iyase) and a couple of others. However unlike some people that lie about their history, I can't do that to gain acceptance. Oguta has migrations from Benin, Aboh, Ukwuani, Nri, Igara, Ijaw, Arochukwu, Isu and Awka.

@Chixomx2, your reference to Brazil and Portugal is a very funny one indeed. That reference doesn't apply to the relationship between Igbos in the South East of Nigeria and Igbos outside the South-East (some of whom deny their true identity)such as Ikwerre, Etche, Ogba, Ndoni, Egbema, Ekpeye, (all in Rivers State),Anioma (in Delta State), Igbanke (in Edo State), etc. Brazil was colonized by Portugal, hence they speak the same language, just as Nigeria was colonized by Britain.

IchieEzeji: @Chixomx2, your reference to Brazil and Portugal is a very funny one indeed. That reference doesn't apply to the relationship between Igbos in the South East of Nigeria and Igbos outside the South-East (some of whom deny their true identity)such as Ikwerre, Etche, Ogba, Ndoni, Egbema, Ekpeye, (all in Rivers State),Anioma (in Delta State), Igbanke (in Edo State), etc. Brazil was colonized by Portugal, hence they speak the same language, just as Nigeria was colonized by Britain.

The people of Aniocha/Oshimili are very proud Igbo as well as Etche and Egbema. Igbo denials exists in Ikwerre mostly in Emohuah (45%, Ukwuani, 15%, Ika 25%, Ekpeye, 30% and Ogba 30%. So they are in minority.

Abagworo:

Ameshi. Obodo girgiri.

Ah, I see.

I am married to Ikwere lady, when it come to culture we are the same, all ikwere speak Pure and central IGBO, my wife speak Igbo more than me but they believe that average IGBO man or woman( from SE) is sharper and more hard working than them and thats where the problem is, afraid of being over shadowed. apart from that they know they r igbos, infact their men prefer IGBO (SE) woman and their women vice versa

CHESSBOARD: I am married to Ikwere lady, when it come to culture we are the same, all ikwere speak Pure and central IGBO, my wife speak Igbo more than me but they believe that average IGBO man or woman( from SE) is sharper and more hard working than them and thats where the problem is, afraid of being over shadowed. apart from that they know they r igbos, infact their men prefer IGBO (SE) woman and their women vice versa

Na wa. There is nothing you won't hear in this world.

this thread is one of the reason i have stopped visiting culture section.the same argurement over and over again.

asha 80: this thread is one of the reason i have stopped visiting culture section.the same argurement over and over again.

If you take the time to explore the culture section, you'll discover the rich variety in topics.

Wow this thread is still going on? sigh!!! The Ikwerres are divided, let them deal with their own wahalla alone. Some see themselves as Igbo while others don't. Whatever deniers within their communities let them deal with it. Why continue to fight over the same thing especially on this site where anyone can pretend to be one of them in an effort to take jabs at ya'll.

CHESSBOARD: I am married to Ikwere lady, when it come to culture we are the same, all ikwere speak Pure and central IGBO, my wife speak Igbo more than me but they believe that average IGBO man or woman( from SE) is sharper and more hard working than them and thats where the problem is, afraid of being over shadowed. apart from that they know they r igbos, infact their men prefer IGBO (SE) woman and their women vice versa

What is pure Igbo? na wa oo

Anyway, everyone has their own dialect including Ikwerre. Your wife might not be able to speak the Ikwerre dialect, that does not mean their own is same as let's say someone from Anambra or Abia or Enugu, etc etc

Abagworo:




His post is as clear as day. Let me summarize it for you.

1. His father is an Eze or traditional ruler, hence he is knowledgeable about his tradition.

2. Ikwerre has similar language and roots as Igbo but has attained ethnic independence.

3. Igbos are generally more intelligent than an average Nigerian.

4. Much of the igbo-Ikwerre misunderstanding is rooted in the discovery and exploration of oil.

@bolded


Pls calm down and don't misinform me.The misunderstanding started with their identity denial to avoid being slaughtered by the Nigerian forces during the invasion of biafra.the oil issue only deepened the misunderstanding because of some silly ikwerre leaders who,in other to seek favor from the powers that be at that time, and the ijaws (who where in control of the old rivers of that time), it was best to stay off anything that has to do with igbo and also misinform their people (with the help of the federal government,the Yoruba media and the ijaw minority who naturally see the igbos as domineering) that igbos where after their oil.

personally,i don't blame them.it was their own survival tactics. some Jews also denied their Jewish identity in the face of Hitler's genocide squad.its a natural phenomena

please get it right and don't misinform people here

@ abagworo thank you for explaining what i ment further....

@ pazienza im sorry you had to feel that way about what i had to saty, but its only evidence to my facts.
what i was trying to say is in general nigeria igbos are noted as being very intelligent hence the frase (igbo play wayo) . and belive me there is nothing wrong with this
, should every1 else in nigeria start getting angry becuase of Gods own doing ? do ikwerre ppl start trying to claim igbo just because of this ? NO. but the small oil in ikwerre land has become
a become problem between igbo and ikwerre ppl . may your right i may no nothing much about the great igbo nation but whom is asking ? from the looks of things it seems most igbos are asking about ikwerre ppl.
At the end of the day are we all not nigeria ? and please i woudnt want to be miss understood i do not know everything about ikwerre and igbo ppl as i may self im not full nigerian although i take to my fathers side
thus im my fathers son an a son of the soil !

few will know that isiokpo kingdom originated from benin kingdom .

if you claim ikwerre ppl are igbo! then shoudnt u say ( because of some silly igbo leaders who, in order to seek favour from the powers that be at that time ? hence the natural brain GOD gave the igbos ..... unless im wrong ....

manchy7531:


@bolded


Pls calm down and don't misinform me.The misunderstanding started with their identity denial to avoid being slaughtered by the Nigerian forces during the invasion of biafra.the oil issue only deepened the misunderstanding because of some silly ikwerre leaders who,in other to seek favor from the powers that be at that time, and the ijaws (who where in control of the old rivers of that time), it was best to stay off anything that has to do with igbo and also misinform their people (with the help of the federal government,the Yoruba media and the ijaw minority who naturally see the igbos as domineering) that igbos where after their oil.

personally,i don't blame them.it was their own survival tactics. some Jews also denied their Jewish identity in the face of Hitler's genocide squad.its a natural phenomena

please get it right and don't misinform people here

............,.

Perhaps it was better not to have said anything.............,.

c.r.r.o:
@ abagworo thank you for explaining what i ment further....

@ pazienza im sorry you had to feel that way about what i had to saty, but its only evidence to my facts.
what i was trying to say is in general nigeria igbos are noted as being very intelligent hence the frase (igbo play wayo) . and belive me there is nothing wrong with this
, should every1 else in nigeria start getting angry becuase of Gods own doing ? do ikwerre ppl start trying to claim igbo just because of this ? NO. but the small oil in ikwerre land has become
a become problem between igbo and ikwerre ppl . may your right i may no nothing much about the great igbo nation but whom is asking ? from the looks of things it seems most igbos are asking about ikwerre ppl.
At the end of the day are we all not nigeria ? and please i woudnt want to be miss understood i do not know everything about ikwerre and igbo ppl as i may self im not full nigerian although i take to my fathers side
thus im my fathers son an a son of the soil !

few will know that isiokpo kingdom originated from benin kingdom .

Igbos here are not claiming ikwerre because of their oil,we are claiming them because the are an igbo tribe,as evidenced by their dialect and culture,these are equally the reason why we don't claim akwaibom tribes,despite the fact that they have more oil than ikwerre.

We even claim igbo tribes in the north,such as those izzi people native to oju/okpokwu lgas of benue state. We do this because we believe in igbo unity,we believe there is strenght in unity,we know that as a people,we can only reclaim our lost glory,if we are united.

Igbo unity took us to places in the past,with the help of this unity,zik a man who has an ancestral link to benin excelled, osadebey ruled mid west, ironsi ruled nigeria.

Today,chibuike amaechi has outgrown rivers state,he wants to go national,but he can't achieve this if ikwerre remains isolated from the igbo union,he won't get igbo support,and without this support,he stands no chance,cos politics is all about numbers.

They are NOT Igbo because THEY say they are not it is that simple. Englishmen cannot claim Americans,Australians ,Canadians etc as English. Once the chick leaves the egg it is no longer an egg.When eba enters the mouth it does not come out as eba.


The English and Germans have a common ancestry which is not in dispute and today there is hardly any discernible similarty in language and culture. Such similarity or its ABSENCE proves or disproves nothing. Pretty much all Native Americans today are part of a different culture and languge . What does that prove? The fact that a people share language and culture can happen for dozens of reasons and does not indicate common ancestry. All those claiming Ikwerres are Igbo should tell us the Origin of that term "Igbo" as a way of denoting the Igbo as we know them today. Were Ngwa or Aro people known as Igbo in 1800. when was the first time that all "So-called" Igbos today were so addressed??

aribisala0: Were Ngwa or Aro people known as Igbo in 1800. when was the first time that all "So-called" Igbos today were so addressed??

Yes, the Aro were known as Igbo prior to colonization. I am interested in finding out your familiarity with the Igbo in general.

aribisala0: They are NOT Igbo because THEY say they are not it is that simple. Englishmen cannot claim Americans,Australians ,Canadians etc as English. Once the chick leaves the egg it is no longer an egg.When eba enters the mouth it does not come out as eba.

Who is the THEY? So, the Ikwerre people who call themselves Igbo don't matter abi? We should only take the words of those that disclaim Igbo okwa ya?

odumchi:

Yes, the Aro were known as Igbo prior to colonization. I am interested in finding out your familiarity with the Igbo in general.

Do you have any EVIDENCE for this? I have not stated any familiarity with "The Igbo" in general or otherwise. I am a student of humanity everywhere and there is quite a lot to learn.Unfortunately many people just espouse opinions or wishes as FACT without any basis. The true test of facts is their resilience to scrutiny. I am always willing to learn but at the same time challenge opinions no matter how old or entrenched

afam4eva:
Who is the THEY? So, the Ikwerre people who call themselves Igbo don't matter abi? We should only take the words of those that disclaim Igbo okwa ya?

Feel free to take the words of whomever suits you.What is indisputable is that they sought and achieved recognition in the Nigerian Constitution . Were you asleep then

aribisala0: Do you have any EVIDENCE for this? I have not stated any familiarity with "The Igbo" in general or otherwise. I am a student of humanity everywhere and there is quite a lot to learn.Unfortunately many people just espouse opinions or wishes as FACT without any basis. The true test of facts is their resilience to scrutiny. I am always willing to learn but at the same time challenge opinions no matter how old or entrenched

I am an Aro and a native of Arochukwu. My people have a number of nicknames and one of them is "Aro oke Igbo" meaning "Aro, the great Igbo".

odumchi:

I am an Aro and a native of Arochukwu. My people have a number of nicknames and one of them is "Aro oke Igbo" meaning "Aro, the great Igbo".

Fair enough! Though one might question how we can know how long this nickname has been around.
Aro Kwenu!

aribisala0:
Fair enough! Though one might question how we can know how long this nickname has been around.
Aro Kwenu!

It's been around since time immemorial. Anyway, I don't see where we are going with this...

odumchi:

It's been around since time immemorial. Anyway, I don't see where we are going with this...

Well I asked for EVIDENCE remember? That inconvenient request that seeks to distiguish twaddle from reality.
You say it has been around from time immemorial .....so if I repeat that and I am asked how do I know I guess I'll just say ODUMCHI said so.
Its not going anywhere other than to point out that BELIEFS without FACTS are not any superior to diametrically contradictory beliefs and ulltimately protagonists will have to agreeto disagree.

You believe what you believe about the Aro Nickname but the truth is,honestly,you have no evidence.
Anyway you quoted me and I responded so I am not sure where it is supposed to be going

aribisala0:

Well I asked for EVIDENCE remember? That inconvenient request that seeks to distiguish twaddle from reality.
You say it has been around from time immemorial .....so if I repeat that and I am asked how do I know I guess I'll just say ODUMCHI said so.
Its not going anywhere other than to point out that BELIEFS without FACTS are not any superior to diametrically contradictory beliefs and ulltimately protagonists will have to agreeto disagree.

You believe what you believe about the Aro Nickname but the truth is,honestly,you have no evidence.
Anyway you quoted me and I responded so I am not sure where it is supposed to be going

All I'm trying to avoid is engaging in an encircling argument because that would be a waste of time.

You have to understand that due to the constraints of time, there are certain things that you would have to take my word for if we are to maintain this conversation, or else you might as well tell me to provide evidence that I am a human being.

Ask any Igbo person what the nick name of the Aro is and they will tell you just like I have. Here is an excerpt from a document by Mazi Ben Ezumah (which I don't completely concur with but had to bring up just to quench your doubt) that should be sufficient evidence of the significance of the term "Aro oke Igbo":

"Every Aro indigene is a proud person due to the fact that we are the cultural chief in all Iboland. Our culture is being exemplarily practiced in all Iboland and this is how the 'Aro Okigbo' came about".

http://www.aronewsonline.com/files/Articles.doc

Now can we move on?

aribisala0: What is indisputable is that they sought and achieved recognition in the Nigerian Constitution .

This sums it all up about the status of Ikwerre today. I know they speak Igbo, bear Igbo names and share same culture with other Igbos but geography, economy and convenience has metamorphosed them into a separate group. My mother is from Ikwerre and I know what I'm saying. There exists a sense of being totally distinct from Etche(Rivers) and Southeasterners whom Ikwerres have 90% similarity with. Some of them still feel they are Igbos but most have joined the denial band wagon.

My only argument has been on the Benin origin claims. I am from Oguta and we have Benin history while my mother is from Isiokpo(Ikwerre) which manufactured a Benin history. When you visit the two places, you will know the truth. Ikwerre had no Kingship prior to colonialism while Oguta had. Isiokpo was formally "Okpo Mgbu tolu" which means Okpo of 9 clans who believe they all descended from Okpo son of Agidi who is either from Aro or Nri. Oguta on the other hand had clear waves of migration from Benin and Delta- Igbo very evident in culture, names and Kingship. Today we are Igbos and have oil more than Ikwerre but still know our various origins. Ikwerre on the other hand are now a separate ethnic group.