thehomer:

Okay.
Lets begin this conversation with this question. Why do you believe in your God?

Note that which I crossed out above. There is no "my" God or "your" God. There is God. God IS.

I believe in God because reason, science, intuition, and the gift of higher sentience lend me so to do.

sigh

D sage:

You're either Deist,agnotist or semi atheist,check my posts very well,did i in one way or the other preaching to atheists?what we're discussing here is,atheists and their arrogant nature by claming that religions people are dumb or irrational and thats why they believes in the scripture.Also their usual copy and paste,or what're you trying to defend here.

Well friend, if you actually read my post, you would see I am a Christian. If you had really read MY post, you would see I never said you were preaching to atheists. I'm saying if you would actually debate them with respect and logical points, you might actually win one over to God. I'm saying you will refine yourself, and it exposes Christians like you with a pathetic attitude. If you aren't supposed to talk to people who don't believe in God, how will you ever save ANYONE?

ea7: sigh

hmmmm!Taik.

bigd4050:

Well friend, if you actually read my post, you would see I am a Christian. If you had really read MY post, you would see I never said you were preaching to atheists. I'm saying if you would actually debate them with respect and logical points, you might actually win one over to God. I'm saying you will refine yourself, and it exposes Christians like you with a pathetic attitude. If you aren't supposed to talk to people who don't believe in God, how will you ever save ANYONE?

1.No amount of respect or logical conversation can change the mind of atheists,because to them,you are not rational enough and that is why you believed in an unseen God.

2.many of them are christains before,so they had a strong reason to become atheists.

3.they understood bible more than many of our christains brothen,infact one cant be an atheist without any religion background.

My point is that,as long as they are stiil seen us as fools,dumb,irrational,inexperience etc,you can never had a logical debate with them.

Deep Sight:

Atheism is unscientific because science itself is an inquiry into causality. Any notion therefore, that suggests or presupposes an uncaused material universe must naturally be considered unscientific.

And in this: I speak of a primordial causative element of whatever description or remit.

The laws of motion, cause and effect, mathematics, genetics, biology and a host of other scientific disciplines render it indubitable: that a primordial intelligence necessarily exists.

Atheism is just a lack of beliefs in the supernatural and gods as described by people. Your endless rhetoric just amounts to more religious beliefs and your personal feelings. Does it take science for you not to believe in Zeus?

Zeus. There. That is the reason you don't see me using names. I simply repeat the law of material cause and effect and the laws of motion. The initial expansion called the big b.ang being motion, required a trigger. Name that trigger what you will. I have no need of names.

Atheism is very unscientific to the extent that proven scientific knowledge shows that life only comes from pre-existing life. Notions to the contrary all so far remain speculations. For this reason, the theist's belief in a pre-existent living element is in line with science and the atheist's rejection of same is contrary to proven science.

Simples

Deep Sight:
Zeus. There. That is the reason you don't see me using names. I simply repeat the law of material cause and effect and the laws of motion. The initial expansion called the big b.ang being motion, required a trigger. Name that trigger what you will. I have no need of names.

I don't know and I'm not going to make stuff up just to fill the gap. If there was a trigger, how will you know the nature of that trigger when the same people who came up with the big b@ng theory are not sure? Are you now an expert?

Deep Sight:
Atheism is very unscientific to the extent that proven scientific knowledge shows that life only comes from pre-existing life.

Your views on science don't hold weight because you can hardly tell the difference between science and pseudoscience. You also embrace the theories you agree with and vehemently put down the one you don't. The origin of life is another topic that I'm sure about but I have no reason not to think that the first lifeform was started by natural processes. We only know of life on this planet so far anyway, so for you to jump to conclusions is what's unscientific because research still continues.

Deep Sight:
For this reason, the theist's belief in a pre-existent living element is in line with science and the atheist's rejection of same is contrary to proven science.
Simples

bla bla bla.

Deep Sight:
What do we mean when we say that something is self-existent? We mean that by its nature it inherently exists. "Existing" is core to what it is. It could not but exist because its very nature is existent. Accordingly such a thing does not "come into" existence, nor does it cease to exist, because existence is inherent to the principle of what it is.
Now let us understand this carefully. A self-existent thing is so because the core principle, the very principle of what it is, is inherently existent. So it is what it is for that reason. Since it is what it is, it is not something that can change. It just is. Constant. A constant and non-ceasing reality.
This is why we say that a self-existent thing is immutable. Its existence is predicated on a principle that is inherently existent and could not but exist and accordingly it cannot but be that principle. Thus it cannot be or become something else because inherently it is that principle. We thus understand that some-thing that self-exists cannot change.
Matter and Energy as we observe them in the physical are changeable. Thus they are not self-existent things
I may further indicate that there is a deeper, more subtle reason why it is obvious that self-existent things are non-physical. Without being wordy, and selecting my words very carefully let me simply say that a self-existent thing being something that cannot be created, thus cannot be something of form and mass. I hope this resonates within your mind.
And so a self-existent thing can not have a form or physical mass as it is an intangible and neceesary, non-contingent reality.
An example of a self-existent thing is eternity. Eternity is eternity. No birth or death of physical universes could circumscribe eternity. It is just there: a constant: eternity. It is not to be confused with the finite time that we use our indicators to measure. Eternity is just a constant. It could neither change nor be created. It is simply the constant vacuum into which things are interpolated.
Every self-existent thing that one may discern is a great key and a great help to understand what God is. Because God is the sum of intangible self-existent realities. The sum of all self-existent law.

I guess the above inane canard is scientific.

Martian:

I don't know and I'm not going to make stuff up just to fill the gap. If there was a trigger, how will you know the nature of that trigger when the same people who came up with the big b@ng theory are not sure? Are you now an expert?

When did I tell you the nature of the trigger.

I am open to whatever it might be - heck: it might even by a highly evolved material being like us that did it all, it might be part of an evolving multiverse, etc. We don't know. When I speak of God, I speak at the level of the primordial cause of all existence. Personally, I dont believe this is the only universe. I imagine there must be virtually infinite multiverses. Just my personal thought.

But at the root of it all, rests the eternal, the unchanged. . . .

Your views on science don't hold weight because you can hardly tell the difference between science and pseudoscience. You also embrace the theories you agree with and vehemently put down the one you don't. The origin of life is another topic that I'm sure about but I have no reason not to think that the first lifeform was started by natural processes. We only know of life on this planet so far anyway, so for you to jump to conclusions is what's unscientific because research still continues.

When did I say the origin of the first life form is not natural?

bla bla bla.

You simply have no answer to the fact that Theism is in line with current proven science: namely the fact that material life as we know it, only comes from previously existing life.

I guess the above inane canard is scientific.

^ ^ ^ U don't follow that quote above. Pity. Hmm. How can I explain it again?

bigd4050:


3) It actually exposes many Christians: there are many Christians that post on this site that really have no idea what they are talking about. When they get destroyed by the atheists and the Christians for making such illogical and stupid statements, it should open their eyes. I have yet to see that on this site, but I have seen it on others. The two big ones I have seen on this site are Rastamouse and Synthsis . They might throw a good point or two out there, but most of their stuff is just garbage that shouldn't be accepted by atheists or Christians.

yeh!!! i am rockstar, oyah come for ya autographs

at a second glance , bros u no spell my name well nau

Deep Sight: When did I tell you the nature of the trigger.

I am open to whatever it might be - heck: it might even by a highly evolved material being like us that did it all, it might be part of an evolving multiverse, etc. We don't know

Exactly.

Deep Sight: ^ When I speak of God, I speak at the level of the primordial cause of all existence. Personally, I dont believe this is the only universe. I imagine there must be virtually infinite multiverses. Just my personal thought.

Yeah, just yours.

Deep Sight:
But at the root of it all, rests the eternal, then unchanged. . . .

whatever floats your boat.

Deep Sight: When did I say the origin of the first life form is not natural?

My bad.

Deep Sight: You simply have no answer to the fact that Theism is in line with current proven science: namely the fact that material life as we know it, only comes from previously existing life.

So life comes from pre existing life, therefore theism is right and god exists. ok.

Deep Sight:
^ ^ ^ U don't follow that quote above. Pity. Hmm. How can I explain it again?

I follow it alright, it's just inane canard.

Deep Sight:
What do we mean when we say that something is self-existent? We mean that by its nature it inherently exists. "Existing" is core to what it is. It could not but exist because its very nature is existent. Accordingly such a thing does not "come into" existence, nor does it cease to exist, because existence is inherent to the principle of what it is.
Now let us understand this carefully. A self-existent thing is so because the core principle, the very principle of what it is, is inherently existent. So it is what it is for that reason. Since it is what it is, it is not something that can change. It just is. Constant. A constant and non-ceasing reality.
This is why we say that a self-existent thing is immutable. Its existence is predicated on a principle that is inherently existent and could not but exist and accordingly it cannot but be that principle. Thus it cannot be or become something else because inherently it is that principle. We thus understand that some-thing that self-exists cannot change.
Matter and Energy as we observe them in the physical are changeable. Thus they are not self-existent things
I may further indicate that there is a deeper, more subtle reason why it is obvious that self-existent things are non-physical. Without being wordy, and selecting my words very carefully let me simply say that a self-existent thing being something that cannot be created, thus cannot be something of form and mass. I hope this resonates within your mind.
And so a self-existent thing can not have a form or physical mass as it is an intangible and neceesary, non-contingent reality.
An example of a self-existent thing is eternity. Eternity is eternity. No birth or death of physical universes could circumscribe eternity. It is just there: a constant: eternity. It is not to be confused with the finite time that we use our indicators to measure. Eternity is just a constant. It could neither change nor be created. It is simply the constant vacuum into which things are interpolated.
Every self-existent thing that one may discern is a great key and a great help to understand what God is. Because God is the sum of intangible self-existent realities. The

Just another version of oneness of infinity.

D sage:

1.They should stop calling us fools for accepting scripture/God.

2.They should accept that religions people are also intelligent people.Stop using "Bill Gate" etc to prove us wrong because we also have many christains/muslims billioners all the world.

3.They should stop mocking our God.

4.They should criticized/argued on the basis of their personal knowledge/experience.

5.Stop copy and paste.

did your mum drop your head on the floor when you were born or do you have a genetically malformed brain as to not be able to understand a simple question?
i don't care what you want from atheists!
i just want to know what you want "theists/religions people in the house" do in stead of "arguing with all the atheists on this forum!

D sage:

1.No amount of respect or logical conversation can change the mind of atheists,because to them,you are not rational enough and that is why you believed in an unseen God.

2.many of them are christains before,so they had a strong reason to become atheists.

3.they understood bible more than many of our christains brothen,infact one cant be an atheist without any religion background.

My point is that,as long as they are stiil seen us as fools,dumb,irrational,inexperience etc,you can never had a logical debate with them.

Actually, to be an atheist means you reject God's teachings. They have no greater understanding of God's word than cattle, because they don't commune with God.

If they were Christians once before, don't you think God can bring them back? I.e. prodigal son.

Atheists are actually very logical. Their logic makes perfect sense, because they view everything by what you can see, and that is logical. However, God is not defined by logic, or anything else than man can think of.

We get Atheists to stop thinking we are stupid when we actually have the courage to debate them, not call them fools or burning in hell. Those things have no effect. Win their respect, actually try to argue your side instead of giving up like you, and I think your views will change a little bit.

bigd4050:

Actually, to be an atheist means you reject God's teachings

. They have no greater understanding of God's word than cattle, because they don't commune with God.

If they were Christians once before, don't you think God can bring them back? I.e. prodigal son.

Atheists are actually very logical. Their logic makes perfect sense, because they view everything by what you can see, and that is logical. However, God is not defined by logic, or anything else than man can think of.

We get Atheists to stop thinking we are stupid when we actually have the courage to debate them, not call them fools or burning in hell. Those things have no effect. Win their respect, actually try to argue your side instead of giving up like you, and I think your views will change a little bit.

Which of the gods exactly? The Christian God, Allah, or Martian's favourite 'The Great Leprechaun'?

musKeeto:
Which of the gods exactly? The Christian God, Allah, or Martian's favourite 'The Great Leprechaun'?

im agnostic to all. Including t leprechaun.

D sage:

1. i believe in God because whenever i called upon his name,he answered my prayer.

Several points here. How do you know that it was your God that answered your prayer? How do you even know your prayer was answered since even if it wasn't answered, you're likely to say it is a good thing. Are you willing to test whether or not your God will answer your prayer?

D sage:
2.I believe in God because,i thought he's the one that reveal it to me in my dream the future events in which i think not about.

You believe in your God because you had a dream in which you saw some future events in your life? How sure are you that you're not just succumbing to confirmation bias? After all, how about the dreams that you had which didn't tell you anything about future events?

D sage:
3.I believe in God as a result of my inability to understand the soul/spirit.

This sounds like a terrible God of the gaps argument. How sure are you that there is even a soul/spirit?

Deep Sight:

Note that which I crossed out above. There is no "my" God or "your" God. There is God. God IS.

I'm sure Christians and Hindus will disagree but I'll leave that out just for you.

Deep Sight:
I believe in God because reason, science, intuition, and the gift of higher sentience lend me so to do.

I don't think science and reason lead you to a God unless you're saying God is existence or something like that. Intuition has been shown several times to be unreliable and I wonder what you mean by higher sentience. Are there others with this higher sentience?

I partially agree with the OP but completely giving the atheists the field day on this forum could be dangerous. These guys present nothing factual, in fat they present lies and drum it several times hoping that people will later take that as the truth.

As believers, it is our responsibility to always come out with the truth, especially for the sake of the Born Again ones whose faith are still at the infancy.

I however agree with you that there is no need to get into the gutter with those atheists...it is not worth it.

Logic Mind:

did your mum drop your head on the floor when you were born or do you have a genetically malformed brain as to not be able to understand a simple question?
i don't care what you want from atheists!
i just want to know what you want "theists/religions people in the house" do in stead of "arguing with all the atheists on this forum!

Why you come dey vex naw o.Dont mind me,my focus is on atheists,that was why i forgot to answer ur question.

I dont see anything wrong/bad,if theists/religions people argued with atheists.

But if you insisted that i should say something,then i'll want them to put God first ahead of everything before open/reading atheist posts.And if we dont,we may all soon become atheists because some of the question they were asking here is enough to create doubt in the mind of our fellow christains on this forum.But if we put God ahead of everything in our life,their comments wont have any influence on us.Infact,its better for (non born-again)christains to avoid reading it.

thehomer:

Several points here. How do you know that it was your God that answered your prayer? How do you even know your prayer was answered since even if it wasn't answered, you're likely to say it is a good thing. Are you willing to test whether or not your God will answer your prayer?

I knew he was the one that answered my prayer because he's the one i called/asked. I knew my prayers were answered because,i received it. I'm not willing to test whether he'll answer my prayer or not because i dont doubted God.



You believe in your God because you had a dream in which you saw some future events in your life? How sure are you that you're not just succumbing to confirmation bias? After all, how about the dreams that you had which didn't tell you anything about future events?

I considered the dreams that reveal not,the future events
as non important.

This sounds like a terrible God of the gaps argument. How sure are you that there is even a soul/spirit?

I gave the reason in my previous posts.

D sage:

Dear theists/religions people in the house,please stop arguing with all the atheists on this forum.

D sage:

I dont see anything wrong/bad,if theists/religions people argued with atheists.

Contradiction is the mark of religionists/atheists.

bigd4050:

Actually, to be an atheist means you reject God's teachings. They have no greater understanding of God's word than cattle . . . .

The bolded reminds me of an old post.

From https://www.nairaland.com/298119/30-keys-being-effective-atheist/2#9514467

Enigma: . . . .
5. Lack of belief in God is substantively different from belief in the non-existence of God thus a dog, a cow, a monkey is as much an "atheist" as the evangelical atheist! (Very good company ; and as a bonus: insist that man is an ape but become angry if called a monkey )

^^^lol @d monkey part, got me enuff laffs

Logic Mind:



Contradiction is the mark of religionists/atheists.

You are not smart at all,please quote the entire posts and tells where i didnt gives any reason after.I stated the risks involved,what one must did and even said those non born again christains should avoid it.So,how do you expect me to answer your question?Or do you want me to say 'they shoudnt do anything with atheist again'.

rastamouse: I partially agree with the OP but completely giving the atheists the field day on this forum could be dangerous. These guys present nothing factual, in fat they present lies and drum it several times hoping that people will later take that as the truth.

As believers, it is our responsibility to always come out with the truth, especially for the sake of the Born Again ones whose faith are still at the infancy.

I however agree with you that there is no need to get into the gutter with those atheists...it is not worth it.

Maybe you have a strange idea of what a lie is.
If you're religious yet don't know that you're being mislead, then maybe you're not in the best position to tell what a lie is.

D sage:

I gave the reason in my previous posts.

If you're unwilling to test, then how sure can you be that it is the God you prayed to that answered.

You're picking and choosing. That is a sign of the confirmation bias.

Which previous post did you give this reason? Can you provide a link or copy and paste the reason here?

musKeeto:
Which of the gods exactly? The Christian God, Allah, or Martian's favourite 'The Great Leprechaun'?

Did you see the word Christians in my post? Yes, you did. Your brain is meant to be used to think, friend. I encourage you to start. Your eyes are also meant to see and read things, I suggest you start doing that too.

My bad... wish most Christians take that advice too..

musKeeto: My bad... wish most Christians take that advice too..

With some of the things I have seen on this site, me too man.

thehomer:

Several points here. How do you know that iijkjut was your God that answered your prayer? How do you even know your prayer was answered since even if it wasn't answered, you're likely to say it is a good thing. Are you willing to test whether or not your God will answer your prayer?



You believe in your God because you had a dream in which you saw some future events in your life? How sure are you that you're not just succumbing to confirmation bias? After all, how about the dreams that you had which didn't tell you anything about future events?



This sounds like a terrible God of the gaps argument. How sure are you that there is even a soul/spirit?

Let me answer your questions in a better way now.

1.I knew he was the one that answered my prayers because,he's the one i called/asked. I knew my prayers were answered because i received it,and if it was not answered,its still a good thing because God has the reason for it. I'm not willing to test whether or not God will answer my prayer because he's beyond reasonable doubt.Even in our daily activities,the moment you started doubting about something,you're gradually depriving yourself from some certain goals/aims.

2.I considered the dreams which didnt tells/reveal the future event as a mere dreams and non important.

3.There is the soul,infact it's the essential/efficient cause of the body.Without it,there cannot be a living,the soul/spirit influence us in one way or the other.

D sage:
3.There is the soul,infact it's the essential/efficient cause of the body.Without it,there cannot be a living,the soul/spirit influence us in one way or the other.

Where is your proof for this assertion ? There is a strong debate ongoing concerning the existence of Soul. Assertions like this needs back-up, not just based on intuition which has been shown to unreliable.

Pity atheists and pray for them.

Many were once Christian and suffered the abuse of the false system of church we have in Nigeria today, many have parents who spent their time working for a better life style rather than educate their kids on the real life in Christ, many are hurt and wounded through life experiences, others have been shocked by the behaviour of countless so called Christians who while tagging themselves with the name of Christ live lives of reckless abandon in sin and perversion.


We need to shine as the light and the Holy Spirit will draw many to Christ.


Pity Atheists, do not mock them, they need HELP !!!! and that HELP can only be found in Christ Jesus.